Jump to content
  • Sign Up
PaddyFerry

3 Quid an hour, better than nowt?

Recommended Posts

I read this tonight and felt sick, sick at the slave labour and sick at the pathetic 8 month jail.                                       http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/national-news/company-owner-jailed-over-apprentice-s-death-1-7358833

Fcuking disgraceful. Shame on the company owner and shame on this fcuking government for their shit, exploitative fcuking work programmes. Apologies for the language but it sickens me too. 

Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sad story.  The recruitment agency has a lot to answer for.  There is no way on earth that they checked out this company before placing this young lad with them.  More interested in taking the £4,500 than actually doing their job properly.  I was looking after my daughter's ceramics studio the other day when a lady called in to check that everything was in place as my daughter had agreed to take a 5th former for work experience.  I had to show her the Indemnity Insurance certificate, first aid kits, fire extinguishers etc, and talk her through what kind of work the student would be doing.  The only dangerous bit of equipment is the kiln, but the student wouldn't be going anywhere near it.  It took ten minutes, including the form filling.  It would have taken less than that to realise that the work environment this poor young lad was being sent into was totally unsafe, had anybody from the recruitment agency bothered to check it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The company should be facing manslaughter charges for removing the safety guards, and as for the recruitment agency, they are equally culpable for their negligence, for not inspecting the working environment. A tragic story.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I read about the world out there the less I want to.

In the early 70s I was an apprentice for a short time in a brickyard. The place was a H&S nightmare . All machines were belt driven,
guards had been taken off or fallen off, open belts flapping all over the shop etc etc. As I was young ( and potentially stupid 90% of the time )
the first day or so I was there some big fitter clocked me round the earole and knocked me half senseless on my ass.
" Don't f**k around with this stuff or you get worse than that from them, and we ain't scraping you up" or some such.
Didn't stop all the stupid but it made you think. Happened a few times if you even looked like you were thinking about it and to all the other kids there.
Nobody is going to do that now it's really become all about the money.

The sentences and fines are laughable. Hopefully all contracts will be nullified and they'll be out of the game.
If the government are putting money in this, where are the inspectors? They can't be taking them off and putting them on again.
Nobody official looked? Some one on some sinecure should also get the chop at least on this.

Makes you wanna puke

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The factory owners are to blame.Maybe in the 70's they could have got away with it,but not now.Basic H&S totally disregarded.

Safety guards bypassed...ffs....Poor lad.My heart goes out to his family.A young man wanting to make a start in life.

Those owners should never be allowed to run a production company again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats a really horrible story. Horrible on a number of levels. This youngster should never have been unsupervised, the working practices were patently lethally dangerous, the "management" was criminally negligent and whats more they were obviously taking the p*** by employing an "apprentice" where no proper training was taking place. That lad was being exploited and left in harms way due largely to greed. It stinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Get ready too see more of this type of abuse of workers under this government, it happened. Before and it will happen. Again 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fcuking disgraceful. Shame on the company owner and shame on this fcuking government for their shit, exploitative fcuking work programmes. Apologies for the language but it sickens me too. 

Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Get ready too see more of this type of abuse of workers under this government, it happened. Before and it will happen. Again 

Could either of you please explain what "this government or the coalition before it" have actually done to Health & Safety legislation, which has contributed to this tragedy ?. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

The point I was making, is worker rights suffer under conservative governments, so kindly drop the smart arse attitude regarding hse policy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly Kegsy. H&S at work is for everyone.Your co-workers have an obligation to warn/report/ even refuse to work if they think the environment is unsafe. If someone has stood by and let this young kid in harm's way fully knowing,then shame on them as well.How can they sleep at night.? Sounds a though the safety guard was either bypassed or broken.I thought machinery like that had to have Guard Checks done every shift.? Back to co-workers.

Now i know it may not be that easy for a 16 yo to say "I'm not doing that its dangerous",i can imagine others were doing the same job and he was following suit .

This government and previous one's are often called for being too strict on H&S.If a factory owner,co-workers are flaunting the regs and getting away with it,what can you do.? 

The recruitment agency's part in this is not the problem.If they had turned up to check the factory in question,what authority do they have.? Ok so they report them,the factory would turn round and tell them to get stuffed we'll look elsewhere for labour.

One last thing.If it was your kid ,would it be different.? 

The point I was making, is worker rights suffer under conservative governments, so kindly drop the smart arse attitude regarding hse policy. 

Welli worked in industry under Labour years ago.H&S didn't exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point I was making, is worker rights suffer under conservative governments, so kindly drop the smart arse attitude regarding hse policy. 

Charming, i simply asked if HSE legislation had been changed, no need for that.

Edited by Kegsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly Kegsy. H&S at work is for everyone.Your co-workers have an obligation to warn/report/ even refuse to work if they think the environment is unsafe. If someone has stood by and let this young kid in harm's way fully knowing,then shame on them as well.How can they sleep at night.? Sounds a though the safety guard was either bypassed or broken.I thought machinery like that had to have Guard Checks done every shift.? Back to co-workers.

Now i know it may not be that easy for a 16 yo to say "I'm not doing that its dangerous",i can imagine others were doing the same job and he was following suit .

This government and previous one's are often called for being too strict on H&S.If a factory owner,co-workers are flaunting the regs and getting away with it,what can you do.? 

The recruitment agency's part in this is not the problem.If they had turned up to check the factory in question,what authority do they have.? Ok so they report them,the factory would turn round and tell them to get stuffed we'll look elsewhere for labour.

One last thing.If it was your kid ,would it be different.? 

Welli worked in industry under Labour years ago.H&S didn't exist.

I would not be blaming the government if that's what you mean, I also think it's out of order making a big deal out of the kids pay rate, would it have been less of a tragedy if he had been earning five times more ?. Even the lad's parents in the article didn't try to blame the government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly Kegsy. H&S at work is for everyone.Your co-workers have an obligation to warn/report/ even refuse to work if they think the environment is unsafe. If someone has stood by and let this young kid in harm's way fully knowing,then shame on them as well.How can they sleep at night.? Sounds a though the safety guard was either bypassed or broken.I thought machinery like that had to have Guard Checks done every shift.? Back to co-workers.

Now i know it may not be that easy for a 16 yo to say "I'm not doing that its dangerous",i can imagine others were doing the same job and he was following suit .

This government and previous one's are often called for being too strict on H&S.If a factory owner,co-workers are flaunting the regs and getting away with it,what can you do.? 

The recruitment agency's part in this is not the problem.If they had turned up to check the factory in question,what authority do they have.? Ok so they report them,the factory would turn round and tell them to get stuffed we'll look elsewhere for labour.

One last thing.If it was your kid ,would it be different.? 

Welli worked in industry under Labour years ago.H&S didn't exist.

My missus has worked it recruitment for 30 years, the agency do have responsibilities as to health and safety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The terror for the young lad must have been unimaginable. Far too many places exploiting the system with cheap labour rather than giving them the training they are there for. The government aren't bothered as they are not included in any unemployment figures and many recruitment agencies are just legal crooks. 

Recruitment agencies should be to supply temporary workers only, work lasting a minimal amount of time but far too often they are supplying full time workers whilst the company using them do not have to worry about holidays and other rights.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Could either of you please explain what "this government or the coalition before it" have actually done to Health & Safety legislation, which has contributed to this tragedy ?. 

I never said anything about health and safety legislation. I posted about this governments workfare schemes which are exploitative, largely unregulated in terms of  H and S, and deliver nothing in terms of results - ie, getting people into real jobs. The only thing they are good at is lining the pockets of some big national providers and other business. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  Sign up/in to remove

My missus has worked it recruitment for 30 years, the agency do have responsibilities as to health and safety.

I have never know an agency to undertake anything to do with H and S. So, what did your missus do to ensure placements were safeguarded? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said anything about health and safety legislation. I posted about this governments workfare schemes which are exploitative, largely unregulated in terms of  H and S, and deliver nothing in terms of results - ie, getting people into real jobs. The only thing they are good at is lining the pockets of some big national providers and other business. 

Surely that's about the minimum wage more than anything else ?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never know an agency to undertake anything to do with H and S. So, what did your missus do to ensure placements were safeguarded? 

My missus didn't do anything, but the firm she worked for would always visit the premises before sending anybody to work there and they would also run on site health & safety briefings for the people they supplied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely that's about the minimum wage more than anything else ?.

Well it would be about the minimum wage but the  governments workfare programmes aren't covered by the minimum wage. People are forced to work on the schemes - sometimes for nothing, and sometimes for rates of pay like £3 an hour. You can swerve it all you like Kegsy but these schemes are a disgrace which ever way you look at em.

P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My missus didn't do anything, but the firm she worked for would always visit the premises before sending anybody to work there and they would also run on site health & safety briefings for the people they supplied.

Then I would say that the firm your missus worked for was the exception rather than the rule. I've never had a temp agency come out and see me - they're just glorified sales boys driven by performance related pay. That probably explains why most of em are dishonest spivs who play fast and lose with the truth in terms of their candidates cv's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My last two jobs have been through employment agencies and not one of them has run  any coarse regarding health and safety. 

For everyone's information qualified maintenance people can remove and run unguarded machinery for maintenance and testing purposes and then the safety system must be replaced so it's fit for purpose.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My missus has worked it recruitment for 30 years, the agency do have responsibilities as to health and safety.

There are a lot who don't ensure everything is followed though as this case proves.

I bet there are not many who do full risk assessments of all the work placers and machinery and again check that recruits are not exploited. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't think I will ever get my head round is the paradox (right word?) of this modern world. i.e. one company can virtually get sued if an employee gets a paper cut on their finger, and yet in another firm down the road people can die because of the negligence of the employer.

I had to defend a case brought by an ex-employee who did clerical and data input work - because i had not done a risk assessment on her desk and chair. :yes: I put up a robust defence and thankfully it never even made it to court. 

But I give that as an example of the craziness that is going on out there!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My last two jobs have been through employment agencies and not one of them has run  any coarse regarding health and safety. 

For everyone's information qualified maintenance people can remove and run unguarded machinery for maintenance and testing purposes and then the safety system must be replaced so it's fit for purpose.

Steve

Only for the duration of the maint or test. My guess is the guard's in this case were disabled to save time.

As for recruitment staff offering H&S advice,wouldn't they have to be NEBOSH at the least.? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only for the duration of the maint or test. My guess is the guard's in this case were disabled to save time.

As for recruitment staff offering H&S advice,wouldn't they have to be NEBOSH at the least.? 

I suspect most recruitment staff wouldn't know what NEBOSH was Kev. If you said that to me they would probably think you were cussing! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back in the day the trade unions via the shop stewards wouldn't have let management get away with things like this at any decent workplace , but the unions are toothless and what we have now is zero policing ,exploitative employers and a government that only acts on the wishes of the well off and employers .

welcome to tory Britain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sad story.  The recruitment agency has a lot to answer for.  There is no way on earth that they checked out this company before placing this young lad with them.  More interested in taking the £4,500 than actually doing their job properly.  I was looking after my daughter's ceramics studio the other day when a lady called in to check that everything was in place as my daughter had agreed to take a 5th former for work experience.  I had to show her the Indemnity Insurance certificate, first aid kits, fire extinguishers etc, and talk her through what kind of work the student would be doing.  The only dangerous bit of equipment is the kiln, but the student wouldn't be going anywhere near it.  It took ten minutes, including the form filling.  It would have taken less than that to realise that the work environment this poor young lad was being sent into was totally unsafe, had anybody from the recruitment agency bothered to check it out.

The agencies are just parasitic globules on the face of the earth for the most part  Steve, along with a lot of other grow rich quick on the distress and poverty  grinding folk down  industry.Well at least  the aim for a fair playing field for workers is going ahead at breakneck and mangle poor folk in unsafe machines speed,quite soon we will all  be on an equal par with those poor bastards enslaved in Chinas massive sweatshop towns and cities once more like our not too distant family members sleeping underneath the looms in those satanic mills of yore folk will sleep under the machinery or in makeshift hovels against the factory walls,with all the new technology they still need unskilled politicaly dumbed down humans for some tasks ,this is the conservative yearning for the past welded to the economic liberalism of today the give you you nowt but lies  govt policy,they dont care poor folk do not  matter,they need them only  as near slaves working to barely exist.

Flexible labour force ie how far can we bend them before they break.Labour are not doing anythig about it and as I have said previously as have  others on this site the project of the New Right has won there is no other opposition. .

Edited by manusf3a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it would be about the minimum wage but the  governments workfare programmes aren't covered by the minimum wage. People are forced to work on the schemes - sometimes for nothing, and sometimes for rates of pay like £3 an hour. You can swerve it all you like Kegsy but these schemes are a disgrace which ever way you look at em.

P

Not to mention being "Sanctioned", meaning having their benefits stopped for anything up to year depending on the number of"Sanctions",they have had,example refuse to work for nothing as a slave =sanction,late for an appointment  by more than 15minutes=sanction, appeals?,they dont get far I have got a few people their sanctions overturned but more dont get anywhere.,most are dished out sanctions by these so called privatised work providers  for various reasons.The ugly face of greed goes all the way to the top not just factory owner there are the  so called "top",people who look on the rest of societies folk as dirt and animal like who come  up with all these highly moral statements about how the rest of us  should behave.These high ups? are after all in a large part the greediest,slimiest most twisted beasts you could find.A great many of them escape prosecution and even people getting to hear of their twisted beastly unscrupulous behavior because D notices get issued to the media as not in the public interest the same blocking of prosecutions by the dpp occurs   in many nonce and fraud cases  carried out by the great and the not so good in the pursuit of more lucre   driven by their insatiable greed while telling others to tighten their belts(,only one place belts should be tightened round!).Prosecutions for hienous beast behaviour and gragantuan thefts by these high exalted figures blocked but why! because it would be against the interests of society as ordinary folk would lose faith in the system of government,oh why is that! because they will learn who these rulers  making all these rules really are and how imoral they all are and lose faith in the system itself possibly leading to anarchy and we cant have that can we,no of course not! so let the noncing and theft continue for the good of the country thank you very much.From the top to the ones reponsible for that poor lads death,fech um all greedy to the core and never being satified while there be more lucre to squeeze from the poor.

Edited by manusf3a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The agencies are just parasitic globules on the face of the earth for thee most part  Steve along with a lot of other grow rich quick on the distress and poverty  grinding folk down  industry.Well the aim for a fair playing field for workers is going ahead at breakneck and mangle poor folk in unsafe machines speed,quite soon we will be on an equal par with those poor bastards enslaved in Chinas massive sweatshop towns and cities once more like our not too distant family members sleeping underneath the looms in those satanic mills of yore ,this is the conservative yearning for the past welded to the economic liberalism of today the give you you nowt but lies  govt policy,they dont care poor folk do not  matter,they need them only  as near slaves working to barely exist.Flexible labour force ie how far can we bend them before they break.Labour are not doing anythig about it and as I have said ad others o this site the project of the New Right has won there is no other opposition. .

Unfortunately Manus, I've got to deal with agencies since going self employed.  Luckily they're just a go between for the companies looking for contract workers, and I don't have much to do with them other than sending them an invoice every week.  Two of my last three contracts have been through the same agency, so they know me and know the sort of work that interests me.  I suppose different industries attract different kinds of recruitment agencies.  The recruiters tend to be wide boys (and girls) who aren't much good at actually doing a real job, so they make a living out of finding those who can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back in the day the trade unions via the shop stewards wouldn't have let management get away with things like this at any decent workplace , but the unions are toothless and what we have now is zero policing ,exploitative employers and a government that only acts on the wishes of the well off and employers .

welcome to tory Britain

I may be wrong buy isn't the policing of heath & safety the job of local councils ?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately Manus, I've got to deal with agencies since going self employed.  Luckily they're just a go between for the companies looking for contract workers, and I don't have much to do with them other than sending them an invoice every week.  Two of my last three contracts have been through the same agency, so they know me and know the sort of work that interests me.  I suppose different industries attract different kinds of recruitment agencies.  The recruiters tend to be wide boys (and girls) who aren't much good at actually doing a real job, so they make a living out of finding those who can.

I suppose I should have defined defined agencies better,round this part of th world there are lots of them who provide unskilled workers for the local factories and farms and out of all the ones I have known people to be involved with theyve been parasitic charging workers all sorts of extra expenses that granted may only be a few pounds is still a chunk out of the minimum wages they pay.Then theres the so called work providers private agencies working for the govt in co ops with the dhss they have a penchant for putting folk into unpaid jobs and being quick to sanction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose I should have defined defined agencies better,round this part of th world there are lots of them who provide unskilled workers for the local factories and farms and out of all the ones I have known people to be involved with theyve been parasitic charging workers all sorts of extra expenses that granted may only be a few pounds is still a chunk out of the minimum wages they pay.Then theres the so called work providers private agencies working for the govt in co ops with the dhss they have a penchant for putting folk into unpaid jobs and being quick to sanction.

Know where you're coming from Manus.  Like I said, different industries attract different recruitment agencies, just as different dogs attract different fleas.  They're all just body shops at the end of the day, but their numbers have increased, especially with the rise in migrant labour.  The recruitment business has its own institute, which sets out a professional code of practice, but I don't think it's mandatory to be a member, and I would imagine anybody can set up a recruitment agency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong buy isn't the policing of heath & safety the job of local councils ?.

I don't think so. Anyway, were you not suggesting that recruitment agencies acted responsibly in this regard? 

I think its the Health and Safety Executive who are responsible. But they don't police stuff - they react to serious incidents. So, largely speaking no polices H and S which is why there is so much dangerous practice in the workplace.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong buy isn't the policing of heath & safety the job of local councils ?.

I don't think so. Anyway, were you not suggesting that recruitment agencies acted responsibly in this regard? 

I think its the Health and Safety Executive who are responsible. But they don't police stuff - they react to serious incidents. So, largely speaking no polices H and S which is why there is so much dangerous practice in the workplace.

 

 

It's both the HSE and Local Authorities who are responsible for enforcing Health & Safety.  This explains it.....

The Health and Safety (Enforcing Authority) Regulations 1998 (EA Regulations) allocate the enforcement of health and safety legislation at different premises between LAs and HSE.

Allocation is based on the main activity carried on at the premises. In general, LAs are the main enforcing authority in retail, wholesale distribution, warehousing, hotel and catering premises, offices, and the consumer/leisure industries.

Have a safe day,

Reginald Molehusband.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. Anyway, were you not suggesting that recruitment agencies acted responsibly in this regard? 

I think its the Health and Safety Executive who are responsible. But they don't police stuff - they react to serious incidents. So, largely speaking no polices H and S which is why there is so much dangerous practice in the workplace.

 

 

Obviously some agencies do take their responsibilities seriously and some don't.

In the case of the HSE, why are this government any worse or better, at enforcement, than any other ?.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

In the case of the HSE, why are this government any worse or better, at enforcement, than any other ?.

 

Who said anything about one government being better than any other? Not me. I do find your penchant for trying to defend this government by introducing points which hitherto have not been mentioned quite frustrating. The young man who lost his life in such dreadful circumstances did so under the watch of this government. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fcuking disgraceful. Shame on the company owner and shame on this fcuking government for their shit, exploitative fcuking work programmes. Apologies for the language but it sickens me too. 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Who said anything about one government being better than any other? Not me. I do find your penchant for trying to defend this government by introducing points which hitherto have not been mentioned quite frustrating. The young man who lost his life in such dreadful circumstances did so under the watch of this government. 

Your constant reference to "this government" might be a clue as to why I'm trying to point out that this would have happened whoever the government, the Tories are not the only ones who have had half arsed policies to get young people into work. I find your assertions that this only happened due to some government scheme to be quite mistaken.

This tragedy is about people flouting H&S rules NOT because the H&S rules have been watered down in any way by this or any other government lately.

Edited by Kegsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your constant reference to "this government" might be a clue as to why I'm trying to point out that this would have happened whoever the government, the Tories are not the only ones who have had half arsed policies to get young people into work. I find your assertions that this only happened due to some government scheme to be quite mistaken.

This tragedy is about people flouting H&S rules NOT because the H&S rules have been watered down in any way by this or any other government lately.

Well not wanting to split hairs old boy but, well, this government is currently running the show. And, actually, I think you will find that this governments record on shit workfare schemes and welfare reform and loads of other shit stuff is far worse than any previous governments - and I don't give a shit whether they were labour, tory or the raving mad loony party. This lot are in power and they have to accept responsibility - it's just a swerve ball to keep trying to compare previous governments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well not wanting to split hairs old boy but, well, this government is currently running the show. And, actually, I think you will find that this governments record on shit workfare schemes and welfare reform and loads of other shit stuff is far worse than any previous governments - and I don't give a shit whether they were labour, tory or the raving mad loony party. This lot are in power and they have to accept responsibility - it's just a swerve ball to keep trying to compare previous governments.

But this incident happened in 2013, "this government" didn't get elected until May 2015 so whatever it is you are trying to blame them for, pre dates them. "This government" didn't bring in the minimum wage legislation that allows younger people to be paid a pittance, ok fair enough they haven't changed it either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment now!

Comments are members only

Sign Up

Join Soul Source - Free & easy!

Sign up now!

Sign in

Sign in here.

Sign in now!

Adverts



×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.