All the records - I mean paperwork and stuff - from Wigan when it closed

[Guest MBarrett]

There must have been mounds of business records when Wigan closed. Everything from membership records to invoices to wages books etc. etc. etc. Promotional stuff. You name it.

Did any of it get saved?

Just wondering.

 

 

[Kegsy]

Given that it was a total cash business I wouldn't trust much of what was in them if they do exist. I've never known a club owner who kept accurate attendee numbers for a start.

[Guest MBarrett]

Given that it was a total cash business I wouldn't trust much of what was in them if they do exist. I've never known a club owner who kept accurate attendee numbers for a start.

Point taken. But I should have thought that with such a high profile they must have been on the radar of the local tax office. Whether it be for VAT, National Insurance or whatever. I've had a few dealings with tax officers. You start out hoping they will be on the thick end of the spectrum and end up realising some of them are very bright cookies.

Still as you say there may have been the bare minimum of records and what there was went in the skip!

 

 

[Winsford Soul]

I believe that there where unused/un issued membership cards and anniversary poster's knocking about in a lock up somewhere in the vicinity of Wigan.

Steve

[SteveM]

Point taken. But I should have thought that with such a high profile they must have been on the radar of the local tax office. Whether it be for VAT, National Insurance or whatever. I've had a few dealings with tax officers. You start out hoping they will be on the thick end of the spectrum and end up realising some of them are very bright cookies.

Still as you say there may have been the bare minimum of records and what there was went in the skip!

 

 

think Gerry Marshall suffered a tax investigation or back duty enquiry as it was known then.

[Guest MBarrett]

think Gerry Marshall suffered a tax investigation or back duty enquiry as it was known then.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. There are certain types of business that set alarm bells ringing in the local tax office. My Dad was at loggerheads with the guys who ran a club near to us when I was a kid. They eventually got done for VAT fraud when it came in the 70s, dawn raid, the works. My Dad was never happier!  

Edited July 24, 2015 by MBarrett

[SteveM]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. There are certain types of business that set alarm bells ringing in the local tax office. My Dad was at loggerheads with the guys who ran a club near to us when I was a kid. They eventually got done for VAT fraud when it came in the 70s, dawn raid, the works. My Dad was never happier!  

Always a target area for HMRC. At least the independents were. 

[Guest MBarrett]

I believe that there where unused/un issued membership cards and anniversary poster's knocking about in a lock up somewhere in the vicinity of Wigan.

Steve

I guess anything's possible Steve.

A guy on the Catacombs Facebook page said that when the Cats closed there were loads of Membership application forms and cards which were just doled out to people who wanted them. Even the signing-in books were initially saved but have sadly since gone missing. 

 

[dedji1955]

A friend did some  clearance nighters closed and found some boxes of unissued badges but as the demand was not what it is now never bothered

Another local Guy did some work on Gerry Marshalls Sons Scooter and was given some unissued badges which he sold at a Scooter  Rally for a pittance

Many of the organisers of coach trips where sent packs of blank membership cards so the folks on the coaches would get in                                                                                      

The History Museum in Wigan has some records, newspaper articles etc... You could also make a Freedom of Information to the Police, Council, Taxation or any of the Public Authorities for the info, documents they have 

[Karl s]

In the early 80s a few of is from west london used to go to warrington parr hall amongst other places , we got pally with some of the wigan lads in their late teens early 20s like us and used to go to their gaffs after for a cuppa and a puff before going to a dayer or what ever 

any way one morning they wanted us to have  wigan scooter club patches as thats who they were we were well up for them then another dude asked if we wanted some old casino stuff he had lying around in his mums or aunts garage / shed  cant remember exactly , he went off on his scooter and came back with a carrier bag full of original patches and proceeded to dole them out to me and my mates we had about 10 to 12 badges each propper embroided ones and posters of all the people envolved in the casino he pointed out his relative so the stuff from the casino was deffo stored around the gaffs of the people  envolved for a good while after it shut , maybe still there who knows 

[Winsford Soul]

Sounds like the same place. I had not  mentioned Gerry Marshall s son,s connection purposely. But it was obviously a open secret

Steve

[Guest MBarrett]

Thanks guys. Great info.

For all the paperwork there surely must have been an admin office, maybe a bookkeeper or something like that. Can't believe it would have gone straight in a skip but maybe into storage and eventually binned when somebody wanted the space.

Just thinking out loud!

[Mellorful]

HMRC tax records go back 7 years and investigation papers up to 20 years given the Casino closed in 81 then any records from the era would have been shredded years ago.

 

[The Tempest]

In the early 80s a few of is from west london used to go to warrington parr hall amongst other places , we got pally with some of the wigan lads in their late teens early 20s like us and used to go to their gaffs after for a cuppa and a puff before going to a dayer or what ever 

any way one morning they wanted us to have  wigan scooter club patches as thats who they were we were well up for them then another dude asked if we wanted some old casino stuff he had lying around in his mums or aunts garage / shed  cant remember exactly , he went off on his scooter and came back with a carrier bag full of original patches and proceeded to dole them out to me and my mates we had about 10 to 12 badges each propper embroided ones and posters of all the people envolved in the casino he pointed out his relative so the stuff from the casino was deffo stored around the gaffs of the people  envolved for a good while after it shut , maybe still there who knows 

Yep,  I can also confim that story from a teenager growing up in central scotland,  my mates big brother and his mates were all going round the country at the time bricklaying , mid 84 / 85 and ended up in Wigan one month on a site,  they duly started seeing a couple of local girls and after conversation one night back at a girls flat,  she produced a bag full of original patches and proceeded to dish them out to the lads. ! 

They duly refused stating they had all been regular goers since the late 70's and had them already but were all duly pissed off that they had dedicated a " major " part of their early lives attending the Casino to get the badges to see them passed around the local area in years to come like surplus baggage and kids pannini football stickers,  very sad all round....................................................... 

[Guest Mart B]

Just like government past and present the public see the obvious,but us public doesn't see the reality.

[Frankie Crocker]

Is Russ Winstanley on here? If anyone should know, he would. At a guess, I would say the paperwork was binned, what little there was. I doubt there was anything in the Casino worth preserving for posterity when it burned down. Enjoyed reading the posts on the badges above so thanks for posting them.

[Bigwheel]

Yep,  I can also confim that story from a teenager growing up in central scotland,  my mates big brother and his mates were all going round the country at the time bricklaying , mid 84 / 85 and ended up in Wigan one month on a site,  they duly started seeing a couple of local girls and after conversation one night back at a girls flat,  she produced a bag full of original patches and proceeded to dish them out to the lads. ! 

They duly refused stating they had all been regular goers since the late 70's and had them already but were all duly pissed off that they had dedicated a " major " part of their early lives attending the Casino to get the badges to see them passed around the local area in years to come like surplus baggage and kids pannini football stickers,  very sad all round....................................................... 

Got annoyed??  .. People didn't travel around the country to "get patches". They were simply trinkets along the way from attending great nighters...Surely, they went to be with their mates, dancing to incredible music, hearing new tunes, experience the energy, the chat, the sweat filled halls, in one of the most special underground music scenes that existed ever...I don't believe people would get annoyed if they came across some patches later on, it would make a great little story.....

[Kegsy]

Got annoyed??  .. People didn't travel around the country to "get patches". They were simply trinkets along the way from attending great nighters...Surely, they went to be with their mates, dancing to incredible music, hearing new tunes, experience the energy, the chat, the sweat filled halls, in one of the most special underground music scenes that existed ever...I don't believe people would get annoyed if they came across some patches later on, it would make a great little story.....

I never bought one patch/badge, it was an unacceptable commercialisation of the scene that I didn't want to know, plus they were a red rag to a bull for the squad.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Kegsy

[Mark S]

Cops records etc from those days would be interesting reading .