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Hank Jacobs - Elijah rockin` with soul original vs not one

Posted

Hi folks, just curious about this one...

I believe i have an original

  • Matrix / Runout (A-side): C-5385-A RE Sm (MR) EAST-SIDE △66821
  • Matrix / Runout (B-side): C-5385-B RE Sm △66821-x ELIJAH ROCKEИ

Now, this copy has Dist. By Malynn Enterprises, Inc. on label

I've just seen a copy which doesn't have that. Don't know matrix numbers of it, but just based on that missing text on label, can we say it's not an original? 

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Posted

Original has delta # 66821.

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Posted

Original has delta # 66821.

Yes, that's what i was saying. Mine, original, has that matrix.

The copy i saw, i don't know matrix number of it, but i know for sure that it doesn't have that Dist. By Malynn Enterprises, Inc. on label. 

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Posted

Yes, that's what i was saying. Mine, original, has that matrix.

The copy i saw, i don't know matrix number of it, but i know for sure that it doesn't have that Dist. By Malynn Enterprises, Inc. on label. 

Could well have matrix number starting with 9 or 1, (such as 98750 or 104850)

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Posted

 

Could well have matrix number starting with 9 or 1, (such as 98750 or 104

 

So there are quite a few bootlegs of it?

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Posted

 

 

So there are quite a few bootlegs of it?

Don't know how many types but there are a few people who buy them thinking they've got an original.. 

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Ok,  but can anyone confirm if only original have Dist. By Malynn Enterprises, Inc. on label ?

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I've seen a few pressing from a plant different from Monarch, but, if I remember correctly, they also had "Distributed by Malynn Enterprises, inc." written on them.  I don't remember an early pressing on Call Me Records, that was put out before it was distributed by Malynn.  I'm pretty sure that Call Me Records was a subsidiary of Money Records from the start, and was half-owned by Mrs. Dolphin, and perhaps half owned by Hank Jacobs.  So, as Malynn was Money's distributor before Call Me started, Call Me would have been distributed by Malynn from the start, and ALL Malynn-distributed Records had  "Distributed by Malynn Enterprises" printed on them.

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Thought the boot had exclusively licenced to soul galore on the label and we styrene.

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Posted (edited)

My copy is styrene and has those numbers psamsara listed but with a delta number 97939 and a Monarch stamp. It also has 'Dist. by Malynn Enterprises, inc.' on the label.

It's got fabulous sound quality but I presume it's a boot/second issue?

Edited by Soul-Slider

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Noticed that Bettye Swann is credited as writing 'Elijah....', so is there a vocal to this awesome slab of soul?

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My copy is styrene and has those numbers psamsara listed but with a delta number 97939 and a Monarch stamp. It also has 'Dist. by Malynn Enterprises, inc.' on the label.

It's got fabulous sound quality but I presume it's a boot/second issue?

With a Delta number of 97939, that's got to have been in 1976 or 1977.  That means it was a boot, as Malynn Enterprises was no longer operating by then.  Money Records had also stopped (although, if I remember correctly Mrs. Dolphin started up Money again around 1979 or 1980, to press re-issues (mostly for The low-Rider Scene-I would guess).  But THOSE legit re-presses didn't have "Distributed by Malynn" on them.  Those late '70s Monarch pressings with "Licensed exclusively to Soul Galore" on them were pressed by Simon Soussan.  I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that he paid Mrs. Dolphin and Hank Jacobs for the rights.

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Noticed that Bettye Swann is credited as writing 'Elijah....', so is there a vocal to this awesome slab of soul?

My first instinct is that Hank Jacobs was a jazz pianist, who recorded a lot of Jazz piano cuts that wouldn't lend themselves well to a Soul vocal on top.  But, you are correct in wondering why a Jazz pianist would play a tune written by a Soul vocalist, if it weren't intended for a vocal by that artist or one of her contacts.  It doesn't sound, at all, to me like a background to a vocal.  If it WERE used for that purpose, it would likely sound "messy" to me, and I wouldn't like it very much (unlike the situation with Barbara Acklin's "AM I The Same Girl".

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Thanks for the info  :thumbsup:

My copy is also styrene

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With a Delta number of 97939, that's got to have been in 1976 or 1977.  That means it was a boot, as Malynn Enterprises was no longer operating by then.  Money Records had also stopped (although, if I remember correctly Mrs. Dolphin started up Money again around 1979 or 1980, to press re-issues (mostly for The low-Rider Scene-I would guess).  But THOSE legit re-presses didn't have "Distributed by Malynn" on them.  Those late '70s Monarch pressings with "Licensed exclusively to Soul Galore" on them were pressed by Simon Soussan.  I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that he paid Mrs. Dolphin and Hank Jacobs for the rights.

If it was booted in 76 or 77 - who for? Was it an in-demand record in the UK in those days or was this for a perceived US interest - as you suggest the Low-Rider scene? I can't imagine someone bootlegging a record just for the hell of it.

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Posted (edited)

If it was booted in 76 or 77 - who for? Was it an in-demand record in the UK in those days or was this for a perceived US interest - as you suggest the Low-Rider scene? I can't imagine someone bootlegging a record just for the hell of it.

I really doubt that "Elijah" would have been sought by The Low-Rider Scene members.  Its flip, "East Side" would have been played by them, so that's a possibility.  I was actually referring to Money Records that were "greasy ballads", like Vernon Green & The Medallions, The Larks, Lee Washington, M & M and The Peanuts, Don Julian. 

Edited by RobbK

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If it was booted in 76 or 77 - who for? Was it an in-demand record in the UK in those days or was this for a perceived US interest - as you suggest the Low-Rider scene? I can't imagine someone bootlegging a record just for the hell of it.

Massive northern tune - hence the bootlegging. And it comes with a fabulous flip side too!

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Massive northern tune - hence the bootlegging. And it comes with a fabulous flip side too!

It is massive but was it in 76 or 77? I don't recall encountering it being played until the mid-80s

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It is massive but was it in 76 or 77? I don't recall encountering it being played until the mid-80s

It was massive everywhere in 1975 and still getting plays in 76.

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I think it's also possible that it was booted for the low-rider scene, as the flip, "East Side" was played by them.  "East Side" was, more or less, a tribute to The East L.A. sound, from which the low rider scene developed.

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Noticed that Bettye Swann is credited as writing 'Elijah....', so is there a vocal to this awesome slab of soul?

My first instinct is that Hank Jacobs was a jazz pianist, who recorded a lot of Jazz piano cuts that wouldn't lend themselves well to a Soul vocal on top.  But, you are correct in wondering why a Jazz pianist would play a tune written by a Soul vocalist, if it weren't intended for a vocal by that artist or one of her contacts.  It doesn't sound, at all, to me like a background to a vocal.  If it WERE used for that purpose, it would likely sound "messy" to me, and I wouldn't like it very much (unlike the situation with Barbara Acklin's "AM I The Same Girl".

The tune is an adaptation of "Elijah Rock" -  a traditional gospel song. The best known version available on 45 is probably Mahalia Jackson's but there are also versions by Reverend Cleophus Robinson and Richard Baker. There are tons of album versions.

I think Bettye swan's credit should be seen at best as one for the arrangement.

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Posted (edited)

It is massive but was it in 76 or 77? I don't recall encountering it being played until the mid-80s

I should have qualifies my statement with when it was first a northern play - apologies for that - nice to know it is currently massive again.

Edited by Rich B

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As a further aside, I don't recall seeing any boots with "licensed to Soul Galore"tag. The ones that came into the shop I worked in the mid-late 70s didn't. Can anyone confirm for definite?

We actually had a topic a few years ago that aimed to list all of Soussan's Soul Galore / Soul Fox records and we added this at the end:

Reproductions of original labels marked "Licensed Exclusively to Soul Galore Productions"

ASHFORD 1000 EDDIE PARKER – LOVE YOU BABY / INST

CHIRRUP 1523 JOHNNY ROSS AND THE SOUL EXPLOSION - I CAN'T HELP MYSELF / SORE LOSER

DISCOVERY 41541 VICKI NELSON - STONEY FACE / STAR FIRES - STONEY FACE INST

JOKER 716 CONNIE CLARK - MY SUGAR BABY / INST

MOHAWK 703 RITA DACOSTA - DON'T BRING ME DOWN / NO NO NO

SUPER SOUND 7002 EULA COOPER - LET OUR LOVE GROW HIGHER / HAVE FAITH IN ME

 

Additions are still welcome of course. Here's the original thread:

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/196167-soul-galore-label/#comment-1609113

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Just dug them both out. Not got soul galore on label but very different

Original has matt paper with very clear text even the very small stuff.

Boot is gloss paper with smudge typeface. Both are styrene. Anyone after the boot?

Also, wasnt love you baby repress done on blue label along with the Lorraine Chandler I cant change?

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I've seen a few pressing from a plant different from Monarch, but, if I remember correctly, they also had "Distributed by Malynn Enterprises, inc." written on them.  I don't remember an early pressing on Call Me Records, that was put out before it was distributed by Malynn.  I'm pretty sure that Call Me Records was a subsidiary of Money Records from the start, and was half-owned by Mrs. Dolphin, and perhaps half owned by Hank Jacobs.  So, as Malynn was Money's distributor before Call Me started, Call Me would have been distributed by Malynn from the start, and ALL Malynn-distributed Records had  "Distributed by Malynn Enterprises" printed on them.

Probably was Ady Croasdell will know for sure. Bettye Swan & Arthur Wright worked for both labels. 

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Kev Roberts played it at Wigan prior to 1977, to my recollection,  because, by that time I had stopped going.

 

Kev

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I think it's also possible that it was booted for the low-rider scene, as the flip, "East Side" was played by them.  "East Side" was, more or less, a tribute to The East L.A. sound, from which the low rider scene developed.

your memory is fantastic my friend!, and I realy enjoy your input into the threads you write in....thank you...Rob

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Probably was Ady Croasdell will know for sure. Bettye Swan & Arthur Wright worked for both labels. 

MOST of Malynn's distributed product was from labels owned by Money's owners (Mrs. Dolphin (John Dolphin's widow), and, later, perhaps a financier partner or (less likely) an A&R partner.  Money (new, resurrected Money Records), Jerk, Ten Star, Call Me, Robin's Nest were all, at least partly owned by Money.  Malynn, Highland, Pure Soul,and other Malynn-distributed labels had no other connection to Money Records, other than possibly using Arthur Wright as an arranger.  The first (orange-coloured) Money label, and its Cash and Ball Records subsidiaries operated before Malynn Enterprises was formed.

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Like was said earlier , it was a massive  Wigan sound in 75 and i think that was also the year the soul galore /sousann/call me    pressings were made 

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The tune is an adaptation of "Elijah Rock" -  a traditional gospel song. The best known version available on 45 is probably Mahalia Jackson's but there are also versions by Reverend Cleophus Robinson and Richard Baker. There are tons of album versions.

I think Bettye swan's credit should be seen at best as one for the arrangement.

Mahalia Jackson's great interpretation of this traditional spiritual...

https://youtu.be/Bun3GjyVcEU

By the way, haven't we had this thread before or am I suffering from gospel deja vu?

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Just to add to when this was played, just been flicking through some old blues & souls, and it is listed in a section called disco soul where various djs  list their top plays at the moment(not just northern, but normal clubs as well). Russ lists it as a play, September 75.

 

Paul

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The tune is an adaptation of "Elijah Rock" -  a traditional gospel song. The best known version available on 45 is probably Mahalia Jackson's but there are also versions by Reverend Cleophus Robinson and Richard Baker. There are tons of album versions.

I think Bettye swan's credit should be seen at best as one for the arrangement.

Rockin' actually arranged by Arthur Wright, he arranged all Bettye Swan's Money stuff

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Rockin' actually arranged by Arthur Wright, he arranged all Bettye Swan's Money stuff

I was trying to be kind rather than say she took a composer credit for a traditional song - you know what I meant! :P

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If it was booted in 76 or 77 - who for? Was it an in-demand record in the UK in those days or was this for a perceived US interest - as you suggest the Low-Rider scene? I can't imagine someone bootlegging a record just for the hell of it.

Was booted in 1975, was a massive Wigan record at the time

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If it was booted in 76 or 77 - who for? Was it an in-demand record in the UK in those days or was this for a perceived US interest - as you suggest the Low-Rider scene? I can't imagine someone bootlegging a record just for the hell of it.

Just repeating what others have said but yes it was, I bought the bootleg at that time.

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Posted (edited)

I seem to recall this as a fairly popular play at Samantha's/Notts Palais as well.

Edited by KevH
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