When Does A Record Become An Oldie??

[hullsoul]

you mean when Lynn decides ?

Kev

Shhhhhh she might hear you...........but yes

Cheers

Martyn

[hullsoul]

as a previous poster said , a good yardstick is about 12 months judged from the classic era 73-76 (though many were booted much sooner thus their monster status was shorter) of course some 45's which have remained also unique or one offs maybe two of..can sometimes achieve a lifespan greater and are sometimes not really thought of as an oldie cos they were never hammered to death in the first place, so to simplify once a record has had it spot in the spotlight and then peters out its usually referred to as an oldie..in much the same way as a pop record..there is no exact timeline but 12 months is a good example i think...

I can see that,personally I think 12 months is a bit soon I would be a bit long I think.........maybe a few years at least?

The boot issue has changed over the years as I see it,in the old days a tune was dropped like a stone as soon as it was booted but these days it doesn't seem to have that effect.Probably as some of the strangest stuff gets booted along with the big tunes these days plus people don't seem to interested whether they're dancing to boots or originals........better stop there about that subject 

Cheers

Martyn

Edited September 27, 2015 by hullsoul

[Winsford Soul]

But you still haven't answered the question I was trying to get at of "when" does a tune become an oldie?At what point along the timeline does it become an oldie from a newie?

Cheers

Martyn

Martyn. Possibly when it gets a 're-activation after it's first plays and consequently been superseded by the next big thing

Steve

[hullsoul]

Martyn. Possibly when it gets a 're-activation after it's first plays and consequently been superseded by the next big thing

Steve

Steve

Spot on & I've got the perfect example of what you mean................heard Ruby Winters-Better recently which was hammered to death & I was sick of hearing it but having not heard it for years heard it out recently & thought how good is this & what a great oldie 

Cheers

Martyn

Edited September 27, 2015 by hullsoul

[Chalky]

I can see that,personally I think 12 months is a bit soon I would be a bit long I think.........maybe a few years at least?

The boot issue has changed over the years as I see it,in the old days a tune was dropped like a stone as soon as it was booted but these days it doesn't seem to have that effect.Probably as some of the strangest stuff gets booted along with the big tunes these days plus people don't seem to interested whether they're dancing to boots or originals........better stop there about that subject 

Cheers

Martyn

Twelve months possible too short these days, it can take 5 years plus to break a record depending on who has copies and hope many.  Once upon a time 4 weeks and it was an oldie

[Rich B]

I think our view on how old is an oldie has changed over time. As we, and the scene get older and more time passes we might prefer our oldies to be, well, older. But when we were 17 who thought that we would still be listening to these tunes 43 years later? 12 months was an eternity in terms of a records popularity!

[Guest Matt Male]

Steve

I disagree(surprise,surprise ).If an undiscovered tune is played but it was made if 1966 that's not an oldie it's a new tune to the scene?

Cheers

Martyn

I agree. This is the understood meaning of oldies and newies on the scene. I don't get people who have been around for years and still think just because something is a 60s recording it's an oldie and something recorded 10 years ago is a newie. It's nothing to do with release date, it's when it gets first played out. Hence all the 60s newies at Stafford. Of course they are now all oldies, because that was 30 years ago.

It's only American radio stations that call everything from the 60s 70s and 80s an oldie...

If I go out to a 'rare soul' night these days I can hear sounds played over the last 5 years. Rare soul nights are supposed to be upfront, but to me they play a lot of oldies.

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by Matt Male

[Slim Jim]

The northern soul scene must also be the only scene that refers to records from the 1970's as modern .

Try telling that to the kids today and they'll not believe you 

 

[hullsoul]

I agree. This is the understood meaning of oldies and newies on the scene. I don't get people who have been around for years and still think just because something is a 60s recording it's an oldie and something recorded 10 years ago is a newie. It's nothing to do with release date, it's when it gets first played out. Hence all the 60s newies at Stafford. Of course they are now all oldies, because that was 30 years ago.

It's only American radio stations that call everything from the 60s 70s and 80s an oldie...

If I go out to a 'rare soul' night these days I can hear sounds played over the last 5 years. Rare soul nights are supposed to be upfront, but to me they play a lot of oldies.

 

Matt

Sounds about right to me

Cheers

Martyn

 

[Chalky]

I agree. This is the understood meaning of oldies and newies on the scene. I don't get people who have been around for years and still think just because something is a 60s recording it's an oldie and something recorded 10 years ago is a newie. It's nothing to do with release date, it's when it gets first played out. Hence all the 60s newies at Stafford. Of course they are now all oldies, because that was 30 years ago.

It's only American radio stations that call everything from the 60s 70s and 80s an oldie...

If I go out to a 'rare soul' night these days I can hear sounds played over the last 5 years. Rare soul nights are supposed to be upfront, but to me they play a lot of oldies.

 

it can take 5 years to break a record dependant on who is playing it and how many copies there are on todays more regional scene.  So what exactly does upfront constitute?  It used to be newies but they are few and far between these days.  

i remember some of Butch's spins from the early 90's, Johnny Praye and Tommy and the Derby's not getting wider recognition until the early Lifeline evenets when Andy Dyson got copies, that was ten years or so later. Prior to that you only ever heard them really was when Butch Dj'ed and maybe Carl Fortnum with Tommy.

[Davenpete]

When it starts smelling of Camembert and Wet Dogs.

Dx

[Bbrich]

The northern soul scene must also be the only scene that refers to records from the 1970's as modern .

Try telling that to the kids today and they'll not believe you 

 

and is it the case that a modern record that was first played and accepted many years ago is now a 'modern oldie' (serious question),   but if so that is even harder to explain to my kids.....................

[hullsoul]

and is it the case that a modern record that was first played and accepted many years ago is now a 'modern oldie' (serious question),   but if so that is even harder to explain to my kids.....................

I've heard the term "modern oldies" used & to be fair I understand what they mean.............I think

Cheers

Martyn

[Vadnochka]

Just a point, When did the term oldies come into use ? - My experience from collecting over 45yrs was that the sounds dropped from any medium / long term play list, regardless of location/venue were deemed PLAYED OUT - hence the long used std. brush off from DJ's - and I include myself in this - 'don't play it anymore mate - it's played out' - (not an oldie). Front line DJ's have driven the scene on since it's inception at all major venues from the late 60's onwards - All the clubs/venues had 2nd tier dj's so to speak who, primarily due to funding issues were only able to spin the 75p / £1 sounds out of Selecta / Redifusion / Moore's / Leicester market - and remember a great raft of clubs had closed before Wigan got started - that 6 month gap in 1973 - during a massive explosion in discoveries saw a great number of sounds disappear - there were very few venues back then, hence the excitement when the word went round that a new all nighter was starting up in Wigan - Where? - For F!!! sake it's bad enough getting to Blackpool - This of course kick started the numbers involved as well. 

With regard to the question - when do they become oldies - the answer just has to be fluid - everyone will have a different timeline / experience / knowledge and just like tastes it will be different strokes for different folks

#

[Russ Vickers]

Its about the documented history of a record on the scene, to make a comparison, if in history, you are not aware of the Battle of Hastings, it doesnt mean that it didnt happen.  Its about the records history on the scene & not the persons.

Just because the nostalgia crowd, on the whole, missed years of massive All Nighters plays for some records, it doeant mean that a record that was made popular during that period isnt an oldie.

The trick with oldies IMO is, that the dancers/punters should be saying 'F8ck me, I had forgotten all about this & its brilliant' not 'OMG not this again'.

Taking 'oldies' as a scene, forget the nostalgia crowd on the whole, they only really want to listen to the same thrashed records over & over again, week after week....however, any All Nighter in this day & age, has got to play a large percentage of oldies to even exist, hopefully along with a few newies, some under played & some top rareities, its the ability, of the DJ to select the best oldies from a back catalogue of 40 odd years & in essence, make them almost like 'newies' again.....the master of this art, as ever, is that man Butch....altho there are others who can & do, do it....

See, as clear as mud.....remember, its not the history of the person, its the history of the disc...

Russ

 

[Steve Ss]

Martyn,....easy..........if it isn't new then it's old........

you played what was advertised for the venue....oldies with a little bit of thought and imagination.....box ticked.....I thought your set went down well.

My take?.....+Oldies are any tunes that have been played out at  any time across the 50+ year history of the "rare" soul/r&b scene....just a few then?  A good set can be composed totally of oldies but put together with thought, feeling and imagination......that "!!WTF is this?" or "I'd forgotten about that!!!" type of moment.......

The real hope is that people are receptive enough to want to listen to sounds they don't know rather than just a narrow choice of what they already know....but that's' another debate.......Best regards

 

 

[skiinspain]

Oldies but Goodies, like a pair of your favourite old brogues maybe, bit worn out, bit out of fashion, bit tatty, over-worn and needs a fresh Soul .But you keep putting them on just for a walk down garden path to the back gate and back for old times sake .Bite your tongue chuck em out and try something new. Same with music, nothing like stepping out in your new comfy shoes and dancing to solid Soul sounds whatever year they are. For me 60's, there are still plenty to go round if you seek em out. Gettin to listen to them played out at venues is a different matter. Only a few that still try to be fresh and not worry about money and the bright lights. Keep it fresh.

 

[Rick Smith]

Started going to Wigan in the early seventies and always though oldies were from the earlier Torch/Wheel era but apparently sounds played in the early seventies are now old school.

Bearing in mind the amount of 'modern and crossover' records cut in the early seventies I assume the reference to oldies refers to when they were being played and the style as opposed to their actual recording era.

 

 

[Guest son of stan]

Iwhich ve heard the term "modern oldies" used & to be fair I understand what they mean.............I think

Cheers

Martyn

When I first heard that term, back in the 80s,  I'd understood it to mean something slightly different. This would be a more mainstream, generally known 7Os soul record, maybe even a hit, dropped into a set for a bit of variety.

Interesting how these terms change meaning. 'Modern' originally was new or recent releases, not records from the early 70s.

[coops]

Time is an abstract invented by 'man' and yes, it really is relative. 

There are 7:3 billion people in this world so there are 7:3 billion subjective opinions on what may be old and what isn't but......... surely it's in the eyes of the beholder?

I was talking to young Tom Page outside Lifeline once and I asked him why he played some records that we've had played to us so many times in the last 40 years they have became like un-welcomed relations. He said "Coops, they're all new to me"

So, what may be played out and is heard for the first time by someone is most certainly not an oldie to him or her although it may be to others.

Perspective, we each have an individual perspective on the tunes we hear.

 

[manus]

Hi Martyn, Got to say what you listed as far as i can see are oldies, the problem here is what the person(s)

attending the venue(s)  know about the music we play, more and more i hear the same problem raising its ugly

head, unless you are playing tracks that are over played or that they have heard same old same old a million times

over, this is what you are going to be up against, people who have not got a clue, sad but true.

Yes for some folks oldies are only the records that they heard during their "era" on the scene ( often short lived) and they have no understanding of what went before or after nor do they seem to want to understand unfortunately.

Edited October 16, 2015 by manus