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Dance Scene Or Soul Scene?

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After the Lifeline thread & other threads in the past the question I want to ask is it a Dance Scene or Soul Scene we belong to?I would be interested in how others view things?

Over the years I've had one or two heated debates with long term soulie mates & have even shocked one or two with the question as they had never ever considered that they belonged to anything other then a soul scene???Personally I think it's a dance scene first & a soul scene second,my reasoning for thinking that is we cherry pick tunes from many genres of music & why do we do that...........to try to get people dancing.

Yes I know 90% of our music is from Black American which makes it heavily soul based but from the earliest days we absorbed these other types of music in varied amounts to call our own & this has been for no other reason but to keep the dancers excited & happy.

So with other forms of music been played that are not of the soul genre it obviously opens the debate (usually heated & passionate)of should they be played or not,these differences of opinion have been going on in there various forms as long as I've been on the scene which I think is healthy & in a small way works to self police things & usually stops things going too far(maybe others would disagree with  that?)

I'm not trying to cause a shouting match about this type of music is shit,that shouldn't be played etc,I'm not saying my view is right I'm just interested how others view the question??

 

 

 

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GOOD question

As we are all aware many different types of music have been played on the scene over the years.Not all by Black artists and many not very soulful.This is why despite the commercialised exploitation i still prefere to call it a NORTHERN soul scene.This is because the Northern Scene is first and foremost a dance scene and no matter how old we get and how knackered we feel its all about hearing those first couple of bars of a tune that create an uncontollable urge to get on the dancefloor.

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2 minutes ago, Steve G said:

Dance scene. Quite a few wouldn't know a good soul record if it jumped off the decks and hit them :lol::wicked:

Steve

Name & shame em...........on second thought's don't I might be top of your list :lol:

Cheers

Martyn

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It can be both a Soul and Dance scene if the DJ,s balanced it accordingly, sadly a lot of them can't do it. There are Dance records with soul oozing from them just as there are Soul records which make you want to Dance, thousands of them.Come,on if the dance floors empty all the time change what your doing, adapt to what's in front of you in that particular venue it's definitely not rocket science,people want and expect to dance as well as listen,That,s why they turn out in the first place.You can't always get it right all of the time but you should be able to stop it  going wrong all of the time.

Keep on Dancing

Keep on Listening

ML

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3 hours ago, hullsoul said:

After the Lifeline thread & other threads in the past the question I want to ask is it a Dance Scene or Soul Scene we belong to?I would be interested in how others view things?

 

 

 

 

HI MARTYN,

The simple answer to this one is that it is dependant on the type of night you like to visit.

If you visit the northern soul nights, dayers , weekenders that are dominated by the northern soul classics, then for me it is a dance scene. People who like to frequent these venues do so predominantly with the intent on dancing the time away.

If it is the rare/underplayed or crossover/70s nights then for me it is a soul scene as again people in attendance tend to go for the soulful content of the music on offer and occasionally venture on to the dancefloor. Although it is not always 100% soul on offer.

To sum up its a bit like HULL Black or White!.

Oops sorry Martyn Black or RED!!:wicked:

ROY  

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3 hours ago, hullsoul said:

After the Lifeline thread & other threads in the past the question I want to ask is it a Dance Scene or Soul Scene we belong to?I would be interested in how others view things?

Over the years I've had one or two heated debates with long term soulie mates & have even shocked one or two with the question as they had never ever considered that they belonged to anything other then a soul scene???Personally I think it's a dance scene first & a soul scene second,my reasoning for thinking that is we cherry pick tunes from many genres of music & why do we do that...........to try to get people dancing.

Yes I know 90% of our music is from Black American which makes it heavily soul based but from the earliest days we absorbed these other types of music in varied amounts to call our own & this has been for no other reason but to keep the dancers excited & happy.

So with other forms of music been played that are not of the soul genre it obviously opens the debate (usually heated & passionate)of should they be played or not,these differences of opinion have been going on in there various forms as long as I've been on the scene which I think is healthy & in a small way works to self police things & usually stops things going too far(maybe others would disagree with  that?)

I'm not trying to cause a shouting match about this type of music is shit,that shouldn't be played etc,I'm not saying my view is right I'm just interested how others view the question??

 

 

 

You forgot the third option which is a 'social scene', as many I know don't dance and don't really listen or take an interest in the music.

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Northern Soul is a scene that plays soul (or what sounds like soul)records that are great to dance to!

Whats great about the Northern Scene is, that ultimately it's the dance floor reaction that decides what gets played, not individual's, not top dj's, marketing men or financial backers.

It's a true democracy based on the enjoyment it is giving to the majority of people at the venue!
 

 


 

Edited by solidsoul

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To me it's Both When out & wanting to enjoy a good night it's a dance scene, when at home & wishing to chill & relax to rarer & more underground soul it's because I enjoy soul music; but prior to going out it's the more energetic soul music I listen too, to get me in the mood for a good night ahead & I hope whomever is DJing makes the right connection to get me up the floor.

Kirsty

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If it was just a Soul scene promoters would be quids in , the venues could be downsized and in most cases events could be held in someones living room , plenty of comfy chairs to sit in whilst chewing the fat regarding matrix details etc , cheap booze requiring no license , nibbles on tap , no extortionate security costs ... and no need whatsoever for a dancefloor ... :g:

Oh hold on , that's all available without even needing to visit someone else's house , you can do all that on-line via SoulSource without even stepping out into the fresh air .

For the rest of us it'll remain a blend of a Dance scene and Soul scene , requiring travelling and a dancefloor thank you very much ... !

And now I must shoot off for something to eat before a trip down to Braintree for this weekend's dose of All-night Soul and Dance , albeit not necessarily in that order .... :thumbsup:

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1 hour ago, SOULCENTRAL said:

HI MARTYN,

The simple answer to this one is that it is dependant on the type of night you like to visit.

If you visit the northern soul nights, dayers , weekenders that are dominated by the northern soul classics, then for me it is a dance scene. People who like to frequent these venues do so predominantly with the intent on dancing the time away.

If it is the rare/underplayed or crossover/70s nights then for me it is a soul scene as again people in attendance tend to go for the soulful content of the music on offer and occasionally venture on to the dancefloor. Although it is not always 100% soul on offer.

To sum up its a bit like HULL Black or White!.

Oops sorry Martyn Black or RED!!:wicked:

ROY  

Roy

Wash your mouth out.......Black n White indeed you know I'm from the Christian side of the City :lol:

I know what you mean but I think your answer is a bit blurred as at "oldies" night's they will have plenty of soul tunes played plus the rare/underplayed/crossover/70t's night most certainly will play some funk or Latin.Only ever heard people say I'm off to a "Soul Night" never a "Dance Night"?Personally don't think you can pick & choose I think it's either all one or all the other????

Cheers

Martyn

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2 hours ago, Andy Mac said:

You forgot the third option which is a 'social scene', as many I know don't dance and don't really listen or take an interest in the music.

Andy

Great point,I think most of us are guilty of that at some night's or other :thumbsup:

Cheers

Martyn

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1 hour ago, solidsoul said:

Northern Soul is a scene that plays soul (or what sounds like soul)records that are great to dance to!

Whats great about the Northern Scene is, that ultimately it's the dance floor reaction that decides what gets played, not individual's, not top dj's, marketing men or financial backers.

It's a true democracy based on the enjoyment it is giving to the majority of people at the venue!
 

 


 

I agree with the democracy point which on the whole has worked brilliantly & left us with some awesome tunes as a legacy but a few shall we say (I'm been generous here) iffy ones have been chosen by the people too :lol:

I can't agree that if it isn't actually soul been played it at least sounds like soul as some of the massive Funk,Latin,RnB floor fillers haven't an ounce of soul in them.........but they are great "Northern" records. 

Cheers

Martyn

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1 hour ago, Gold Band said:

To me it's Both When out & wanting to enjoy a good night it's a dance scene, when at home & wishing to chill & relax to rarer & more underground soul it's because I enjoy soul music; but prior to going out it's the more energetic soul music I listen too, to get me in the mood for a good night ahead & I hope whomever is DJing makes the right connection to get me up the floor.

Kirsty

Kirsty

I'm in your gang with what's played at home but home & out are two very different things I know people who are passionate soulies but don't listen to it at home they have other musical interests?

I was trying to get a feeling of how people thought the mix of music which makes up our scene is perceived & I've been quite surprised that most think like me it's a dance scene first.

Cheers

Martyn 

 

Edited by hullsoul

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1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

If it was just a Soul scene promoters would be quids in , the venues could be downsized and in most cases events could be held in someones living room , plenty of comfy chairs to sit in whilst chewing the fat regarding matrix details etc , cheap booze requiring no license , nibbles on tap , no extortionate security costs ... and no need whatsoever for a dancefloor ... :g:

Oh hold on , that's all available without even needing to visit someone else's house , you can do all that on-line via SoulSource without even stepping out into the fresh air .

For the rest of us it'll remain a blend of a Dance scene and Soul scene , requiring travelling and a dancefloor thank you very much ... !

And now I must shoot off for something to eat before a trip down to Braintree for this weekend's dose of All-night Soul and Dance , albeit not necessarily in that order .... :thumbsup:

Now that sounds like my type of soul "do"...........comfy chairs & nibbles............it needs a name before we can start doing it :lol:

Enjoy Braintree & don't do yourself a mischief on that dancefloor...........I'll be heckling Ann Sexton at The Wilton :wicked:

Cheers

Martyn

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1 hour ago, hullsoul said:

Roy

Wash your mouth out.......Black n White indeed you know I'm from the Christian side of the City :lol:

I know what you mean but I think your answer is a bit blurred as at "oldies" night's they will have plenty of soul tunes played plus the rare/underplayed/crossover/70t's night most certainly will play some funk or Latin.Only ever heard people say I'm off to a "Soul Night" never a "Dance Night"?Personally don't think you can pick & choose I think it's either all one or all the other????

Cheers

Martyn

Martyn. Widnes is the only thing that's black and white. Back on topic.

Back in the  day I was into soul music Motown, Philly etc then I discovered Northern Soul which is loosely based on in my opinion soul music but been as it encompasses white singers and instrumentals it can't be called soul music hence it has to be dance music. Just a thought like. 

Steve

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I disagree that Soul music has to be by a black artist.

 

All scenes based on people going to dance or celebrate music being danced to is a dance scene first and foremost.  If it was puely a Soul scene people would equally sit on the dancefloor listening to deep Soul.

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As I entered the ball room I was greeted by a scene of dance.

Dance scene. As has been said been plenty of stuff played over the years that is as foreign to soul music as it is to country and western. Having said that there's been some country and western stuff................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

:rofl:

 

Edited by Peter99

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the northern soul scene is definitely a dance scene which to me as always  played out an eclectic mix of music whose aim is to get boots on the ground and people on the floor , that's what created and defined it back in the day , solid on the floor dance music , and long may it continue , unfortunately there are people who have jumped onto the northern bandwagon and are clinging onto the coat tails of what I would call mainstream northern soul and playing undanceable music which is flat insipid and mediocre at best and called modern or rare and underplayed etc . :yes::wicked:

 

Edited by barney

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On 14 November 2015 12:57:00, Patto said:

GOOD question

As we are all aware many different types of music have been played on the scene over the years.Not all by Black artists and many not very soulful.This is why despite the commercialised exploitation i still prefere to call it a NORTHERN soul scene.This is because the Northern Scene is first and foremost a dance scene and no matter how old we get and how knackered we feel its all about hearing those first couple of bars of a tune that create an uncontollable urge to get on the dancefloor.

Good question !!! U Avin A laugh it's A dance scene ! 

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Do we really need to  put a  label on all and everything, surely everybody on the scene likes Soul Music, and some want to dance, others not so much.  I personally enjoy a lot of most forms of Black music i hear, and if i want to dance i will, or if not, i'll go to the bar again. Enjoy what you like !!

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10 hours ago, barney said:

the northern soul scene is definitely a dance scene which to me as always  played out an eclectic mix of music whose aim is to get boots on the ground and people on the floor , that's what created and defined it back in the day , solid on the floor dance music , and long may it continue , unfortunately there are people who have jumped onto the northern bandwagon and are clinging onto the coat tails of what I would call mainstream northern soul and playing undanceable music which is flat insipid and mediocre at best and called modern or rare and underplayed etc . :yes::wicked:

 

Can you give us some examples of the undanceable records?

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Dance scene - although since the peak /overground years of the 70s a variety of tempos were introduced. This opened up new adaptations of some of the traditional northern dance styles.

For example an oldie like Buddy Smith. If you progressed beyond the traditional uptempo dancing you can throw some lovely floating shapes to this beauty of a record 

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1 hour ago, Byrney said:

Dance scene - although since the peak /overground years of the 70s a variety of tempos were introduced. This opened up new adaptations of some of the traditional northern dance styles.

For example an oldie like Buddy Smith. If you progressed beyond the traditional uptempo dancing you can throw some lovely floating shapes to this beauty of a record 

Spot on Byrney. 

 

 

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I've gone to do's on both scenes, but don't go out any longer, the house scene, or dance scene was best socially for me back in the late eighties, the soul scene has music closer to my heart, bar 89-92 house and rave, those were vintage years musically...

 

as as for the soul scene becoming a dance scene musically at certain events, natural isn't it, it's all from the same tree.... 

Edited by Mal C

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On 14 November 2015 14:02:25, hullsoul said:

Steve

Name & shame em...........on second thought's don't I might be top of your list :lol:

Cheers

Martyn

Hi Martyn,

OK then

Holly St James v Bettye Swann - only one winner on the northern soul scene.

Rubin "you've been away" v James Carr - only one winner there too.

I mean the northern scene is a dance scene by definition and the records are selected as such. The beat comes first, soulfulness second. Could you imagine playing "Today I started loving you again" or "You're pouring water on a drowning man" at a northern night? No nor can I.  So yes dance scene and I've named and shamed as well….ha ha. 

PS: That's not to say there aren't many great soul records played on the northern scene IF they've got the beat. 

Edited by Steve G

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Ray Pollard 'the drifter', Jimmy Radcliffe 'long after tonight is all over'... try a back-flip with those evergreens (LOL)... OK, they are/were enders, but yes, it's a music scene first. Well at least that's how I always understood it. Maybe I'm wrong in the end. Off course people can dance to it, shuffle and/or hum-sing along... And off course the deejays were in pursuit of rare soul records with a beat to dance to. The rare soul scene is/was a club music !!! Then you also have the megalomaniac opportunist (I'm being polite here) deejays who brought along the odd  record to get "everybody" on the dance floor, but actually have no "soul" in them. Thats when the yank dealers tended to understand that Paul Anka is likely a "northern soul hero" !?

It's a scene with deejays, dancers, collectors and punters where some are both and few others are all at the same time !!!

If dance is first in "northern soul", music is second by a nano millimeter. I wouldn't dare listen just to "dance music" as such. So I went in for the music ! And I found some...

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On 11/14/2015, 3:09:39, Hooker1951 said:

It can be both a Soul and Dance scene if the DJ,s balanced it accordingly, sadly a lot of them can't do it. There are Dance records with soul oozing from them just as there are Soul records which make you want to Dance, thousands of them.Come,on if the dance floors empty all the time change what your doing, adapt to what's in front of you in that particular venue it's definitely not rocket science,people want and expect to dance as well as listen,That,s why they turn out in the first place.You can't always get it right all of the time but you should be able to stop it  going wrong all of the time.

Keep on Dancing

Keep on Listening

ML

In addition - It's not necessarily 'going wrong' if the dance floor does empty / thin out every so often - That's actually healthy in my book (As discussed) :wink:

All the best,

Len :thumbsup:

Edited by LEN

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When we were starting out on the fledgling Northern scene, not one of my mates, male or female, ever said "I feel like a good dance tonight. Might be good to go to a (then) rare soul night, so I can dance to music I don't know". Bloody hell, in Burnley we would have got filled in saying we wanted to go dancing!

I have never been a good dancer and go for the music first and foremost and still do. I am sure 99% of true northern fans started out just going for the music, but I do see the other side, and I think that the scene has evolved and a lot of people nowadays go for the dancing first and the music second.

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When I go out now, and when I did in the early 70's it was to dance. I did not realise until a few weeks after visiting the discos for the first few initial times that I would be introduced to soul/Motown I had never heard before, plus of course the new releases like TSOP, Detroit Emeralds/Don Downing etc. To me, engaging with the dance floor and the DJ choice whether his or requests, gives me pure escapism from the sh*te going on in my life and indeed the world. Sometimes I do not feel like talking and I guess the records/songs and a dance are a portal for me to regroup my thoughts with only the beat and melody helping my decision making process. Deep? Tell me about it. I have watched others faces lip syncing to their favourite songs (I think) whilst dancing and I see the same in them. They are in almost tearful ecstasy and to disturb them and bring them back to reality, would be inappropriate. I saw a gentleman at Prestatyn this year on the Monday morning sat by the dance floor, emotional and on a downer. He had been to paradise lol! Prestatyn...but I felt the same. Freezing cold rooms, crap baths, but great music! Of course, subject to stamina I would be happy to chat and discuss whether it is about the format or the recording that move me ha ha.

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Guest johnny hart

Just A Scene! From the early days Ihad friends who did not could not dance! Friends Frank "Booper " Gedd Rudd the best dancers Ive ever seen,Friends who debate the lead singer of the Professionals endlessly!  Nerds ,Trainspotters,anoraks ,collectors like me who through sites like Soul Source continue to contribute and Enjoy NS Life ! LOL Johnny

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Guest chorleybloke

I don't think you can fit it neatly into a pigeon hole, we embrace all the different ingredients to varying degrees - the music, the dancing, the camaraderie, the vinyl chatter, the DJs, this website - everything.  It's in our blood for good.

Cheers.........Pete

 

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Having taken the last 4 year as a sabatical from the soul scene to run a house classics night my perspective is that its far easier to get people to dance to music the've not heard before on the dance scene. NS is a record, ie specific tunes, rather than a music based scene, people go to hear and dance to specific records rather than music of a certain type.

Edited by geeselad

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A music scene for those who like ultra good music. A soul scene for the chosen masses whether you listen to, and maybe dance to and possibly even collect the records. A Northern Soul scene for those who dress up, travel, go to Soul Nights, All Nighters and Weekenders to socialise, dance and live the life. Sure, dancing is an important facet of the scene but generally at a venue and usually in spells. Some are known to dance in the house or at work but this is not common: some venues nowadays have fewer dancers but maybe more listeners drinking, talking, smoking, thumbing through record boxes etc. It is only a dance oriented scene as the music is so soulful.

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On 15 November 2015 at 21:13:45, Byrney said:

Dance scene - although since the peak /overground years of the 70s a variety of tempos were introduced. This opened up new adaptations of some of the traditional northern dance styles.

For example an oldie like Buddy Smith. If you progressed beyond the traditional uptempo dancing you can throw some lovely floating shapes to this beauty of a record 

A bit chicken or egg Byrney... The music came before the dance. The dance is in response to the music. Slower dance styles evolved as a natural reaction to mid-tempo and beat ballads. Once, most tunes were up-tempo and dance style was too, but different tunes eg 70's newies, spawned new dance moves - where the music leads, the dancers follow so nowadays, freestyle dancing is often the norm.

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44 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Yeah A bit chicken or egg Byrney... The music came before the dance. The dance is in response to the music. Slower dance styles evolved as a natural reaction to mid-tempo and beat ballads. Once, most tunes were up-tempo and dance style was too, but different tunes eg 70's newies, spawned new dance moves - where the music leads, the dancers follow so nowadays, freestyle dancing is often the norm.

Yeah your right on the Chicken and egg bit I suppose many of us got into this for the music first and dancing came later. 

You're also right on the variety of dances -flowing from the varied tempos and beats, such a shame many events are full of people doing a uniform walk from left to right. 

Edited by Byrney

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look at it this way , back in the day when a lad went out to a venue /dance/disco/nightclub/youthclub/local bop ,. he wouldn't well I wouldn't get up and dance on my own ,you either asked a girl or she asked you to dance and it was about pulling women as far as most blokes were concerned the music was a means to an end  , then some older lads who had been to  the torch or Manchester started playing and dancing to this ultra cool music and things changed  ,they were the ace faces and we copied them , we were given some stick by some lads and even girls for dancing on our own but it was the music not just any old music but what became known as northern soul that had us running onto the floor and yes it was the music but it had to be that special music which made you want to dance .

picture this ,as a callow young lad of 17 years down the pit early on a Monday morning haaving a sarnie and a cuppa before starting work and the conversation goes like this forgive the homophobic comments but am talking early 70s ,.

,nar then young Barney wheres tha bin this weekend ,

I went to an allniter .

whats that then ,n what do ya get up ter .

well we listen and dance to soul music ,

o ar is there lots of lasses there to dance with ,.

oh yes but you don't dance with the girls ,you dance on your own

is it a puff club then .

no its just what we do .

well what beer do they serve ,

no beer just pop

ffs barney its definitely a queer club by the sound of it , no fookin beer .

my street cred was zilch and took a bit of stick but 40 odd yeas later I still dance not as much but on my own .

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1 hour ago, barney said:

look at it this way , back in the day when a lad went out to a venue /dance/disco/nightclub/youthclub/local bop ,. he wouldn't well I wouldn't get up and dance on my own ,you either asked a girl or she asked you to dance and it was about pulling women as far as most blokes were concerned the music was a means to an end  , then some older lads who had been to  the torch or Manchester started playing and dancing to this ultra cool music and things changed  ,they were the ace faces and we copied them , we were given some stick by some lads and even girls for dancing on our own but it was the music not just any old music but what became known as northern soul that had us running onto the floor and yes it was the music but it had to be that special music which made you want to dance .

picture this ,as a callow young lad of 17 years down the pit early on a Monday morning haaving a sarnie and a cuppa before starting work and the conversation goes like this forgive the homophobic comments but am talking early 70s ,.

,nar then young Barney wheres tha bin this weekend ,

I went to an allniter .

whats that then ,n what do ya get up ter .

well we listen and dance to soul music ,

o ar is there lots of lasses there to dance with ,.

oh yes but you don't dance with the girls ,you dance on your own

is it a puff club then .

no its just what we do .

well what beer do they serve ,

no beer just pop

ffs barney its definitely a queer club by the sound of it , no fookin beer .

my street cred was zilch and took a bit of stick but 40 odd yeas later I still dance not as much but on my own .

BRILLIANT Barney i had much the same conversations if you could call them that when i was a young apprentice down the pit along with the classic.

Hear that lads young Patto cadged a lift all the way to bloody Stafford last Saturday and didnt even get a jump at end of it,you should have stayed int village lad there were loads of lasses in the welfare.

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Just a thought but are today's dancers as good as their forebearers ?

Back in the day good dancers would be able to adjust their footwork to the tempo of the music being played and just got on with it.

But in today's media driven, uniformed what's expected northern dance school instructing anathema of a scene if they can't do the expected two steps to the left, two steps to right to every record, they wonder off outside for a smoke or a E-ciggie usually moaning (wearing a wooly hat being optional:wicked:) !

And don't get me started on the couples dancing together to the slower stuff :glare:

How long before we a Strictly Come Northern Dancing Special, I wonder which media craving parasites will feature on the Judges panel ?

Dave

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4 hours ago, Louise said:

Just a thought but are today's dancers as good as their forebearers ?

 

Perhaps not, but they seem to be enjoying the music just as much dancing to a wider range of sounds without having to break into a chemist's shop to get the party started...

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15 hours ago, Louise said:

Just a thought but are today's dancers as good as their forebearers ?

Back in the day good dancers would be able to adjust their footwork to the tempo of the music being played and just got on with it.

But in today's media driven, uniformed what's expected northern dance school instructing anathema of a scene if they can't do the expected two steps to the left, two steps to right to every record, they wonder off outside for a smoke or a E-ciggie usually moaning (wearing a wooly hat being optional:wicked:) !

And don't get me started on the couples dancing together to the slower stuff :glare:

How long before we a Strictly Come Northern Dancing Special, I wonder which media craving parasites will feature on the Judges panel ?

Dave

Roberts, dustbin and burton or king I'd bet, but they'd be loads of takers

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