Ian Levine Soul Pack's

[Wiggyflat]

Nik nak why didn't you just send them back and ask for a refund? I don't think you have made it clear that you asked for one.

[Lambrettagp200]

43 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

OK, a cracked Metros 'sweetest one' on RCA (worth £10 max) in the best case doesn't compensate with a VG+ STOL, WOL, wear... play through Lionel Ritchie of your choice if you can that is... I would never venture in such a 'lot' buy but the seller here is way too defensive (compensating = admitting in my book with f**king bootlegs that can sell £100 ?!? but can't be sell ?!?!?), inaccurate description (bargain for who, the buyer or the seller ?) and the comment on the mixcloud page that is 2 month old says it all; no apologies, and a lot of "me, myself and I".

Before you get too carried away tlscapital, I only asked the questions to clarify things.

If Niknak paid for 1000 records, he should have got 1000 playable records, as long as they fitted the genres they were sold as.

Surely that would have been the answer, regardless of the records values.

The reason I ask about the bootlegs & if he still has them, is that if so, they are Niknak's & he can do what he likes with them.

As they seem to have a "value", maybe he should consider listing them on eBay 

& recoup some cash back.

[Woodbutcher]

So is it fair to assume that the bootlegs are coming from Ian Levine then ... ? ...  these things being so exclusive but he can dole out 14 just like that ... !

 

[Pete S]

57 minutes ago, Mace said:

Listed or Sold?........I sold my last promo recently for £30 (Ex-) .... the most it ever seems to have sold for is $75.......don't understand what this comment means Pete....anyone could list anything on ebay for whatever they want.....it means fcuk all unless it sells, and whilst I understand your support for Ian in this matter I don't get this statement.....you are usually the first person to criticise over inflated valuations so this seems totally out of character for you Pete?

 

Mace I've never heard of it, I was told it was definitely listed at that so I passed that info on.  Look, I can see whats coming here, I'm going to cop all the flak for this when I've not actually done anything, I've not made any records, I've not sold any records, I'm just sticking up for a friend that's all and stating facts that I'm told are true.  If they are not true then I apologise but I can only go on what I'm told.  

[Marc Forrest]

Yeah, or as a "refund"...

I knew they would one day break "free" of this circle of friends who got them from this "anonymous source", would come into the market. dont know if this was the first time but it sure wasnt the last time.

on a side note: if levine gave them away as a refund...he seems to have more than one copy at least on these titles ? why was he given more than one of they were not to be sold on ? Just asking.

[Steve G]

3 minutes ago, Pete S said:

repeat, sorry

Who said that Steve?

Pete you said "I've got all of them - I've never thought them to be real or tried to sell any." I am sure a lot of people t would like to know what "all of them" are. We know of Magnetics, Salvadors, Sam Williams, Rita Graham, Willie Tee, John Wesley, Districs, greater Experience, Jeannie Tracy, Billy Woods, I was asking what are the other ones? 

Steve

[Markw]

6 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Yes fair enough but I repeat - no copies for sale - anyone who has copies has been given them for free.

Why would someone go to the not insignificant expense and trouble of reproducing good and convincing counterfeits of top end value rare records and then give them away? That is indeed a most generous friend.

[Mace]

1 minute ago, Pete S said:

Mace I've never heard of it, I was told it was definitely listed at that so I passed that info on.  Look, I can see whats coming here, I'm going to cop all the flak for this when I've not actually done anything, I've not made any records, I've not sold any records, I'm just sticking up for a friend that's all and stating facts that I'm told are true.  If they are not true then I apologise but I can only go on what I'm told.  

I admire you for sticking up for a friend Pete, and I have no axe to grind with anyone associated or being discussed on this thread.....but if someone who you consider to be a friend,  is telling you that BP  'Mama' has sold for £200/$200 then they are misleading you, and these are not facts in any way shape or form.

[Tlscapital]

1 minute ago, LambrettaGP200 said:

Before you get too carried away tlscapital, I only asked the questions to clarify things.

If Niknak paid for 1000 records, he should have got 1000 playable records, as long as they fitted the genres they were sold as.

Surely that would have been the answer, regardless of the records values.

The reason I ask about the bootlegs & if he still has them, is that if so, they are Niknak's & he can do what he likes with them.

As they seem to have a "value", maybe he should consider listing them on eBay 

& recoup some cash back.

Cheers LambrettaGP200, I'm not the getting too carried away kind. And I totally follow you there. But I wouldn't want to be in Niknak shoes trying to sell those bootlegs that can't be sold (apparently) !!! They are going to cause a controversial surge when proposed for silly money.

Wiggyflat's option for a full refund would have been the best option IMHO. But now it may be too late. This is the best seller's policy to avoid any muddy waters but it seems that this option wasn't offered or even a partial refund but instead extra ultra rare 45... 

[Steve G]

Thanks Pete.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Steve G

[Pete S]

1 minute ago, tlscapital said:

Cheers LambrettaGP200, I'm not the getting too carried away kind. And I totally follow you there. But I wouldn't want to be in Niknak shoes trying to sell those bootlegs that can't be sold (apparently) !!! They are going to cause a controversial surge when proposed for silly money.

Wiggyflat's option for a full refund would have been the best option IMHO. But now it may be too late. This is the best seller's policy to avoid any muddy waters but it seems that this option wasn't offered or even a partial refund but instead extra ultra rare 45... 

He was given the opportunity to return the bootlegs but said he wanted to keep them - I already asked Ian this question - or I'll buy them off him for a tenner apiece if he likes

5 minutes ago, Steve G said:

Pete you said "I've got all of them - I've never thought them to be real or tried to sell any." I am sure a lot of people t would like to know what "all of them" are. We know of Magnetics, Salvadors, Sam Williams, Rita Graham, Willie Tee, John Wesley, Districs, greater Experience, Jeannie Tracy, Billy Woods, I was asking what are the other ones? 

Steve

Done, see below

[Wiggyflat]

But was he given the option  to return the soulpack?. and IL must have a severe lack of judgement in sending a pissed off customer bootlegs....what a can of worms...the B.P.I/Trading Standards/someone on here who legally licensed product not to mention customs/self declaration/import duty/taxman. 

[Lambrettagp200]

Glad we are on the same page tlscapital 

 

[Frankie Crocker]

20 hours ago, niknak said:

For those of you out there pondering the prospect of buy a soul pack from Ian Levine. Let me share with you my personal experience. There seems to be people out there that are very happy with the contents of these packs; however, i am not one of them.

Ian pitches his packs as £10 to £50 records of across the board 60's Soul. Northern soul, R&B. 70's, Disco etc. He also promises a few expensive one's in there for good measure. 

I for one, did not receive a pack with records worth between £10 & £50. perhaps a small percentage were around the £10, but most are worth around £3 to £4 each. There was certainly no hidden surprises to terms of expensive records. Though he did try to convince me that 'Bobby Peterson- mama get your hammer' is worth £200.

I bought 1000 records from Ian. 300 of which were totally scratched & dirty, totally inaudible. ( he doe's state that some cleaning is required) Hardly any 60's left after this inspection. Not much R&B(mostly scratched to death) The majority of what i have left to play with is mostly early,mid to late 70's & a fair bit of 80's.

I could go on & on here, but my verdict is this. Don't expect loads of great soul. There are some nice things in here, but nothing i would have bought if i had seen them first(though that's just personal) I believe he has hyped them in order to shift the left overs. Ian buys a shipment, takes out the really rare stuff, as one would expect. He then takes out all the other half interesting stuff which go into his £3 each packs that are more tailored. What is left is this lot. I imagine some packs will be better than others, depending at what stage you take purchase of the pack. 

I'm not trying to Ian bash, i really don't know the guy, but what i do know,Ian is not on the level. Ian will try to defend himself in saying he bent over backwards to make me happy. After he flew off the handle a few times, he offered me a pack of 14 really rare records worth around 30.000. Who on earth offers a man 30.000 of records to compensate £1000. yes, that's right, nobody. I went along with this for the sake of curiosity, wanting to see what he sends. My feeling was he will be sending boots. Low & behold Boots it was, served fresh off the press by the looks as well, & could tell these where all made at the same plant. He tried to tell me in the "how dare you manner" that i was mistaken. A friend & himself had compared these with the real thing & were happy to confirm there authenticity.

What can you say this. he adds insult to injury by trying to deceive me.  Make of this as you will. defend him or join the many people who seem to dislike him, but regardless, he tried to con me, for reasons only Ian knows. there you have it....Happy shopping.

Error of judgement here methinks. Soul packs in the main are a WOT nowadays. They usually contain records that do not sell individually. Buying one thousand records blind is plain daft as you could buy 10-20 really good records that sound great and possibly gain in value. Decades ago, soul packs were a bargain. The best way forward these days is to buy bulk consignments only when the records are listed. Better still, get to know a range of dealers and buy precisely what you want on terms that are mutually beneficial. 

[niknak]

1 minute ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Error of judgement here methinks. Soul packs in the main are a WOT nowadays. They usually contain records that do not sell individually. Buying one thousand records blind is plain daft as you could buy 10-20 really good records that sound great and possibly gain in value. Decades ago, soul packs were a bargain. The best way forward these days is to buy bulk consignments only when the records are listed. Better still, get to know a range of dealers and buy precisely what you want on terms that are mutually beneficial. 

It was an error in Judgement, that's for sure. I assure you i feel just as daft as point out.

I was hoping by posting this, i could help others make better judgments.

[Wiggyflat]

But have you asked for a refund on the soulpack.

[Fishcake]

1 minute ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Error of judgement here methinks. Soul packs in the main are a WOT nowadays. They usually contain records that do not sell individually. Buying one thousand records blind is plain daft as you could buy 10-20 really good records that sound great and possibly gain in value. Decades ago, soul packs were a bargain. The best way forward these days is to buy bulk consignments only when the records are listed. Better still, get to know a range of dealers and buy precisely what you want on terms that are mutually beneficial. 

You expect people to be fair with you,and give you playable records and genres as described,the dark side of collecting rears its ugly head yet again.

 

[niknak]

1 minute ago, wiggyflat said:

But have you asked for a refund on the soulpack.

indeed, 'Over my dead body' or words to that effect were given

[Frankie Crocker]

Just now, niknak said:

It was an error in Judgement, that's for sure. I assure you i feel just as daft as point out.

I was hoping by posting this, i could help others make better judgments.

We've all bought records in haste and have regrets with hindsight. Your posts are an insight for those intending to build a collection too quickly. Hopefully you can sell a few of the load to recoup part of the outlay - soul packs can indeed offer small profits to canny dealers who work hard at selling.

[Pete S]

This is the very essence of soul packs though, you pay your money and take your chance, you never know what you're going to - I've bought tons in the past but if they've been poor well that's just one of those things, swings and roundabouts

[niknak]

13 minutes ago, Pete S said:

It looks as good as that.  

I would buy them off him.

it do's look as good from a passing glance, but you can tell one is offset printed the other digitally done.

[maslar]

5 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Once again, nobody has got this Steve.  Nobody.  No one had even heard of it.  No one knows what label it is on.  So whats the difference between having that and making your own carver.

This to me is the true ethos of "bootlegging" - making material available that would otherwise be lost. I wouldn't have any qualms whatsoever about owning this or paying for it.

[niknak]

12 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Once again, nobody has got this Steve.  Nobody.  No one had even heard of it.  No one knows what label it is on.  So whats the difference between having that and making your own carver.  Some of the records I listed have ever been seen by anyone and that includes Ian Levine.  Snoopy Dean, Louis Paul, Jonathan Capree, Okaysions, Metros - none of you would know anything about these if I hadn't mentioned them above.  If anyone can show me a copy of those last five records, I'd love to hear from you.  I've got one of each.

er, hum

[Pete S]

2 minutes ago, niknak said:

er, hum

Have you got them?

2 minutes ago, wiggyflat said:

I would love to see these boots against the Sandy Golden 45.I'm sure Saucepan is on this playing his synthesiser.  

Always thought that was dodgy

[niknak]

2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Have you got them?

I have the first 3 you just mentioned

[Soul Shrews]

4 hours ago, Pete S said:

Well so what?  They look a darn sight better than carvers with crap photocopies on.

newsflash - there are already around 2000 Northern Soul bootlegs

Well enough said I guess, if no-one gives a sh#t

Cheers Paul

[Markw]

10 minutes ago, maslar said:

This to me is the true ethos of "bootlegging" - making material available that would otherwise be lost. I wouldn't have any qualms whatsoever about owning this or paying for it.

That statement has to be a joke, surely?

[Pete S]

2 minutes ago, niknak said:

I have the first 3 you just mentioned

Oh well still need a couple for the set :-)

[niknak]

24 minutes ago, Pete S said:

This is the very essence of soul packs though, you pay your money and take your chance, you never know what you're going to - I've bought tons in the past but if they've been poor well that's just one of those things, swings and roundabouts

consequently, the very reason to post my findings.

[maslar]

Just a few random thoughts on the matter:

1 £1000 is a lot of money (in case anyone hadn't realized).

2 These packs are clearly aimed at collectors with an eclectic  interest - ranging from jazz , all shades of soul music to disco and funk. Neither are they aimed at collectors wishing to become dealers. Or get rich quick.

3 Even with my limited knowledge of what IL is offering I still have a rough idea of what I would get for my £1000 . I can kind of picture it.

4 I wouldn't buy a pack such as this without asking questions first: while I realise detail is out of the question I'd still want reassurance about the ratio of stuff I was getting and condition. This would be reasonable given the money involved. As a buyer you're entitled to ask as many questions as you like and to get any assurance you require. At the end of the day you can always say - no thanks

5 In terms of satisfaction after receiving I'd want the follows: If I was happy with 250 then that would be my minimum. I'd be ok with that. Ideally I'd expect to be happy with about a half. The rest I could dispose off and not be too upset about it. Any thing over half would be a bonus.

 

[Eddie Hubbard]

I remember that Metros from a Goldmine CD of unissued Detroit sides from quite a few years ago ,its not an RCA side .Some of these lookalike releases are bound to make it to the market place eventually ,it makes a minefield for collectors .

[maslar]

12 minutes ago, markw said:

That statement has to be a joke, surely?

No it's not a joke.

[niknak]

50 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

We've all bought records in haste and have regrets with hindsight. Your posts are an insight for those intending to build a collection too quickly. Hopefully you can sell a few of the load to recoup part of the outlay - soul packs can indeed offer small profits to canny dealers who work hard at selling.

I believe in time, with what is left, i can recoup most of my cash. This would make it a pointless exercise, as i was hoping to add some records to my collection.

[kevinsoulman]

i was going to buy off ian levine but decided to go with ady pierce,

100 60's for £260 inc p&p, well chuffed with the pack 3 or 4 duplications which i will sell on,

all in ex condition at least well worth a punt if the offers still on

kev

[Frankie Crocker]

3 minutes ago, niknak said:

I believe in time, with what is left, i can recoup most of my cash. This would make it a pointless exercise, as i was hoping to add some records to my collection.

Only pointless if you sell the records for what you paid for them... Even if you keep the best 50 records, your collection has grown

[Pete S]

2 minutes ago, pomonkey said:

 So you're not averse to making a quid off these pieces of crap after all, that's pretty choice.

They're not crap, they're really good actually, and people would pay decent money for them if they were on sale, I'd have bought them.  Again, I ask why you're not worried about the people selling hundreds of copies of every known Northern record on ebay.  

3 minutes ago, kevinsoulman said:

i was going to buy off ian levine but decided to go with ady pierce,

100 60's for £260 inc p&p, well chuffed with the pack 3 or 4 duplications which i will sell on,

all in ex condition at least well worth a punt if the offers still on

kev

Unfortunately everybody got the same packs so now there are hundreds of copies of the same records everywhere!

5 minutes ago, pomonkey said:

 So you're not averse to making a quid off these pieces of crap after all, that's pretty choice.

Oh what like the money you get by selling originals, I'm sure you donate the profit to charity.

[niknak]

2 hours ago, LambrettaGP200 said:

Niknak....just to clarify things, do you still have the bootleg records?

Also, you received approximately 1050 records which approximately 750 play through?

 

Yes, i still have all the bootlegs. 

I received approximately 1050 wreckords, sorry records. 300 don't play & another, say 200 have crackle & are in v.g- to v.g con. around 500 are good to go, sorry did i say go.

There are a couple of tunes like THE SUMMITS- IT TAKES TWO & ANITA WARD- SPOILED BY YOUR LOVE, i'm very happy in receiving. However, i would have rather not spent 1000 sheets to have discovered them.

[Peter99]

Well this one is going to run and run isn't.

I don't believe for one minute that someone, at some point, isn't going to be ripped off with one of these "lovely looking" counterfeits. They will definitely bleed into the market place.

 

 

 

[kevinsoulman]

52 minutes ago, maslar said:

No it's not a joke.

apart from the duplicates i'm keeping em pete so not a problem for me 

kev

 

[niknak]

the dust is from the scanner, not the record.

they are not impossible to tell apart. I could tell within seconds

[Sjclement]

6 minutes ago, niknak said:

the dust is from the scanner, not the record.

they are not impossible to tell apart. I could tell within seconds

Do you have a real one to compare it to?

[niknak]

2 minutes ago, niknak said:

the dust is from the scanner, not the record.

they are not impossible to tell apart. I could tell within seconds

Just to add, there is no evidence that foul play has been committed to anybody else but me. These rather attractive boots, in my opinion, could have been pressed for the sole purpose of showing off with a expensive record when D.Jing. No one would notice a fake when it's spinning. It's a no go to play anything other than originals. So, getting to play this track & fooling people into thinking you own it, could be the reason these were pressed.

However, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, that these will end up being used in a scam at some point, but not necessarily by the people who had them made

[niknak]

4 minutes ago, sjclement said:

Do you have a real one to compare it to?

no, but you don't need to when you know what a Sussex record from this period looks like. Besides, the colour is so off the

[Ian Dewhirst]

Effectively what we have here is a microcysm of the art world. There are original paintings which will be generally beyond the reach of most mere mortals.

Then there are limited-edition top end prints, which are the next best thing and still have a level of credibility and which are more affordable than re-mortaging the house.

And at the bottom of the demand are the quicky quick-buck prints that don't make any attempt to be anything other than supplying demand to those who are not bothered about credibility.

So demand for the items means that it's inevitable for boots and repros to be made. Bootleggers are bootlegging with impunity at the moment because it's simply too cost prohibitive to enforce copyright and chase 'em down for most copyright owners. It's the wild west again folks. 

So there is a market for the people who can't afford £4K for a Salvadores original but don't mind paying £100+ for a repro which is almost indistinguishable from an original.

I have yet to see ANY of these repros or boots. I bought a Salvadores original in 1973 which is long gone. And, even though I legally issued it on 7" for the Northern Soul 7" Box Set in 2015, I would still love to jettison my shit-looking blue Wise World 70s boot for a more authentic looking repro.

I'm beginning to take boots and repros as a fact of life these days. I can't stand bad boots and don't want them in my collection. Since the originals are way beyond my budget these days, I'm still in the market for SUPERIOR repros for reasons I still haven't worked out. I think it's the basic aesthetic of being as close to the original as possible.

I still bought a light blue Idle Few repro a few weeks ago. You know, I CARE about this stuff..... 

Ian D

[Pete S]

57 minutes ago, niknak said:

Just to add, there is no evidence that foul play has been committed to anybody else but me. These rather attractive boots, in my opinion, could have been pressed for the sole purpose of showing off with a expensive record when D.Jing. No one would notice a fake when it's spinning. It's a no go to play anything other than originals. So, getting to play this track & fooling people into thinking you own it, could be the reason these were pressed.

However, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, that these will end up being used in a scam at some point, but not necessarily by the people who had them made

Can't argue with any of that.

[Peter99]

28 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

Effectively what we have here is a microcysm of the art world. There are original paintings which will be generally beyond the reach of most mere mortals.

Then there are limited-edition top end prints, which are the next best thing and still have a level of credibility and which are more affordable than re-mortaging the house.

And at the bottom of the demand are the quicky quick-buck prints that don't make any attempt to be anything other than supplying demand to those who are not bothered about credibility.

So demand for the items means that it's inevitable for boots and repros to be made. Bootleggers are bootlegging with impunity at the moment because it's simply too cost prohibitive to enforce copyright and chase 'em down for most copyright owners. It's the wild west again folks. 

So there is a market for the people who can't afford £4K for a Salvadores original but don't mind paying £100+ for a repro which is almost indistinguishable from an original.

I have yet to see ANY of these repros or boots. I bought a Salvadores original in 1973 which is long gone. And, even though I legally issued it on 7" for the Northern Soul 7" Box Set in 2015, I would still love to jettison my shit-looking blue Wise World 70s boot for a more authentic looking repro.

I'm beginning to take boots and repros as a fact of life these days. I can't stand bad boots and don't want them in my collection. Since the originals are way beyond my budget these days, I'm still in the market for SUPERIOR repros for reasons I still haven't worked out. I think it's the basic aesthetic of being as close to the original as possible.

I still bought a light blue Idle Few repro a few weeks ago. You know, I CARE about this stuff..... 

Ian D

A little deep and philosophical Mr D!

Hope you are well Sir.

[Tony Smith]

Can't believe anyone has bought these "Soul Packs" expecting much to be honest, bought some off Silverfox records 100 for £250, all were Unplayed old stock at least, sold 6 records and covered 30% OK. So misrepresentation is the issue and I find it hard to believe bootlegs are being lauded because they are not intended for sale!, of course they will leak out, and someone will get stiffed. Just saying.

[Pete S]

4 minutes ago, Tony Smith said:

Can't believe anyone has bought these "Soul Packs" expecting much to be honest, bought some off Silverfox records 100 for £250, all were Unplayed old stock at least, sold 6 records and covered 30% OK. So misrepresentation is the issue and I find it hard to believe bootlegs are being lauded because they are not intended for sale!, of course they will leak out, and someone will get stiffed. Just saying.

And again, I will tell you that it won't be from me because I have one copy of each and I do not sell bootlegs as originals.  Seriously, one copy.  and I want to keep Salvadors, Sam W etc.

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Pete S

[Markw]

29 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

Since the originals are way beyond my budget these days, I'm still in the market for SUPERIOR repros for reasons I still haven't worked out

Ian D

That's a contradiction in terms. You cannot polish a turd. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig etc etc etc.

Don't waste your money mate. Buy some decent original soul records instead - you might be surprised..............

[Markw]

4 minutes ago, Pete S said:

And again, I will tell you that it won't be from me because I have one copy of each and I do not sell bootlegs as originals.  Seriously, one copy.  People have seen them at my house - 1 copy of each.

I don't think anyone has any suspicions about you or your intentions Pete.