Are we really gonna let it die with us?

[Len]

On 1/30/2016 at 18:46, Steve L said:

How many young people were there though? I'm extremely sceptical about this "new generation of young uns who will carry the scene on" that people keep talking about.

 

It's probably too late, but hey, here's hoping another generation can feel that 'buzz' in whatever way they can 

Len 

[Len]

4 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

Drifting slightly off topic and prompted by Mellorful's mention of Brian Rae please indulge me here,  I know this would never happen but lets just say it did , could it ever be a case of not what but who, say a Nighter was advertised with a roster Dj's including say Butch, Ginger Taylor, Ted Massey ,Richard Searling , Nige Brown etc and at the bottom of the flyer it said All on Laptop, would the reputation of the Dj's sway people into attending whatever the format, just a thought and again I know it would never happen or at least I hope it wouldn't.

There would be an interesting reaction to say the least! 

Your post reinstates the point that I don't mean if this happened that it would automatically mean that anyone could DJ - Far from it. The good DJs would still be skillful at their trade. It would be an interesting night, not least at seeing who would turn up at such an event 

Watch this space 

Len 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by LEN
Change wording

[Len]

2 hours ago, Carl Dixon said:

I have an idea - when these new 3D printers that can do anything become available and affordable, print the digital downloads to a 7" plastic disc and hey presto - the old and new meet in the middle. Old school traditional events can continue with the respect and romance expected of them...and newer events a refreshing angle playing a physical item, never released in 1965, but available to finally be heard on the dance floor. If the record companies allowed a ' one off print' of a purchased digital file, it would be legal too. It's a win win!

Or use 'Time Coded Vinyl' already available (Whatever that is!!!) 

Len 

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Time coded vinyl - never heard of that. I know what time code is - for example, it tends to be in television blanking or as a longitudinal audio track. it can also be 'burnt' invision. You needed both back in the day because at high speeds, the tape frequency increased and the TCR could not be read, so used the audio tcr when shuttling through. When slowing down it could then be exact because of the VITC (vertical interval time code). Remember, tape has drop outs so having both ensured if the tape did have drop out it could cue effectively. Not certain how they would get time code into vinyl. Might be research time.....

Edited February 1, 2016 by Carl Dixon

[Len]

16 minutes ago, LEN said:

.

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by LEN

[Jordirip]

If I decided to go to a nostalgia night up the road, I wouldn't care what the music was played on, I would be there for social reasons and a giggle. To hear the usual requests and top twenty played on any format would be of no importance to me. The time when it was important to hear those tunes was 35+ years ago. However, kids dressed in the circus uniform, encouraged by mum and dad,  playing these said same tunes, encouraged by mum and dad is ceratainly not a good look and certainly the beginning of the end of any scene I used to love. I'd be on the first bus back.

Youngsters finding their own tunes, wearing their own styles played off any format they want, in any setting they want, danced to how they want, well.....that is more like a healthy outlook. Anyone with taste, young or old, will appreciate a beautiful looking original 45 and understand it's significance. It won't be necessary to lug 200 of the feckers around town on a Saturday night to DJ with though for the new breed.

[Len]

12 minutes ago, Carl Dixon said:

Time coded vinyl - never heard of that. I know what time code is - for example, it tends to be in television blanking or as a longitudinal audio track. it can also be 'burnt' invision. You needed both back in the day because at high speeds, the tape frequency increased and the TCR could not be read, so used the audio tcr when shuttling through. When slowing down it could then be exact because of the VITC (vertical interval time code). Remember, tape has drop outs so having both ensured if the tape did have drop out it could cue effectively. Not certain how they would get time code into vinyl. Might be research time.....

When ya done - Enlighten us please! 

Len 

Edited February 1, 2016 by LEN

[Jordirip]

28 minutes ago, LEN said:

Or use 'Time Coded Vinyl' already available (Whatever that is!!!) 

Len 

Why would anyone need time coded vinyl Len? Time code is digital code (hours, minutes, seconds, frames) which is digitally superimposed in vision on a piece of video for editing purposes. The vinyl wouldn't be timecoded but if it was recorded onto a digital file, then that will have it's own digital reference numbers on it for synching up if you were DJing, ie. whizzing it back to the start at 00:00:00 on the time code.

[Len]

6 minutes ago, jordirip said:

Why would anyone need time coded vinyl Len? Time code is digital code (hours, minutes, seconds, frames) which is digitally superimposed in vision on a piece of video for editing purposes. The vinyl wouldn't be timecoded but if it was recorded onto a digital file, then that will have it's own digital reference numbers on it for synching up if you were DJing, ie. whizzing it back to the start at 00:00:00 on the time code.

I didn't know what it was mate (I thought it may be relevant to Carls' post) I was talking to a 'Download DJ' at the weekend and he mentioned it.

Cheers,

Len 

[Quinvy]

I don't know Brian Rae, but he appears to be well respected by a lot of people, and I wouldn't want to cause any offence but!

Most DJ spots are an hour duration.

You can only play [roughly] 26 tunes in that time.

I used to own approx.120 records, period.

Not that heavy to carry and enough for 5 hours.

[Len]

Years ago there was an OVO thread (One of the original ones) ........I posted something on the lines of........."Would it be ok if a well respected DJ like Brian Rae played off CDs because he has done so much for the scene, a bit like only the Queen can eat swans?"........

The reply........."No Len".........

Maybe peoples' views have since changed with age, especially if we're aiming this at younger people 

Len 

Edited February 1, 2016 by LEN

[Guest Carl Dixon]

This is way off topic I guess...

Time code vinyl  -  this could be it. It looks like an audio time code (analogue) is recorded onto vinyl and used as a slave to drive other digital formats as though vinyl. Also 8 of us here at work (Sky) agree time code is not digital (it might be now with devices), but an FM audio signal - old school. Years old. A square wave!

Vinyl Control

 

What is it?

Vinyl control allows a user to manipulate the playback of a song in Mixxx using a turntable as an interface. In effect, it simulates the sound and feel of having your MP3 collection on vinyl.

How does it work?

Vinyl control uses special timecoded records which are placed on real turntables. The audio output of the turntables is plugged into a computer, on which Mixxx is running. When a record is played on one of the attached turntables, Mixxx decodes the timecode off the record, and uses information from that to manipulate whatever song is loaded.

Mixxx uses xwax to decode Serato/Traktor timecodes.

What do I need to use it?

It's possible to use Mixxx's vinyl control with several hardware setups, but the basic ones are:

Setup 1: Vinyl DJ Two timecoded records, two turntables with phono preamps (or line-out), and two “sound inputs”. You can skip the phono amplifiers if you use the snazzy new software preamp in Mixxx, though this will not provide as clean a signal and may not work for everyone - line-level signals are preferred.

Setup 2: CDJ Two timecoded CDs, two CD decks, and two “sound inputs”.

Now, for the “sound inputs”, you have two options: You can either use a fancy DJ soundcard that has multiple stereo line inputs on it, or can use two soundcards (each with a single stereo line in). Currently, Mixxx's vinyl control has only been tested with the latter configuration. Don't use mic inputs! They're not stereo and won't work!

For best scratch performance with vinyl control, your system must be able to handle setting the latency to 10ms or less otherwise the scratch sound will start to become distorted as latencies (and lag time) increase.

For timecoded records or CDs, you can use any of the records supported by Mixxx:

Edited February 1, 2016 by Carl Dixon

[Len]

27 minutes ago, Carl Dixon said:

This is way off topic I guess...

Time code vinyl  -  this could be it. It looks like an audio time code (analogue) is recorded onto vinyl and used as a slave to drive other digital formats as though vinyl. Also 8 of us here at work (Sky) agree time code is not digital (it might be now with devices), but an FM audio signal - old school. Years old. A square wave!

Vinyl Control

 

What is it?

Vinyl control allows a user to manipulate the playback of a song in Mixxx using a turntable as an interface. In effect, it simulates the sound and feel of having your MP3 collection on vinyl.

How does it work?

Vinyl control uses special timecoded records which are placed on real turntables. The audio output of the turntables is plugged into a computer, on which Mixxx is running. When a record is played on one of the attached turntables, Mixxx decodes the timecode off the record, and uses information from that to manipulate whatever song is loaded.

Mixxx uses xwax to decode Serato/Traktor timecodes.

What do I need to use it?

It's possible to use Mixxx's vinyl control with several hardware setups, but the basic ones are:

Setup 1: Vinyl DJ Two timecoded records, two turntables with phono preamps (or line-out), and two “sound inputs”. You can skip the phono amplifiers if you use the snazzy new software preamp in Mixxx, though this will not provide as clean a signal and may not work for everyone - line-level signals are preferred.

Setup 2: CDJ Two timecoded CDs, two CD decks, and two “sound inputs”.

Now, for the “sound inputs”, you have two options: You can either use a fancy DJ soundcard that has multiple stereo line inputs on it, or can use two soundcards (each with a single stereo line in). Currently, Mixxx's vinyl control has only been tested with the latter configuration. Don't use mic inputs! They're not stereo and won't work!

For best scratch performance with vinyl control, your system must be able to handle setting the latency to 10ms or less otherwise the scratch sound will start to become distorted as latencies (and lag time) increase.

For timecoded records or CDs, you can use any of the records supported by Mixxx:

Thanks Carl - I think I'll stick with me records 

Len 

[Hooker1951]

I've gone dizzy reading these threads I'm definitely sticking to 45's I might buy a flying saucer to carry them round though you've got to move with times a little bit.

Keep on Pressing on

ML

[TOAD]

[Joprinsen]

On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 12:15, LEN said:

I was in my office the other day, and I was playing 'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' on You Tube (Don't worry I closed the curtains first) As you know, a picture of the record pops up on the computer screen, I said to a young lad that works for me that I would love to own one, but it would cost me well over a grand, if not two....His reply......."Why? It's just there!"........as he pointed at the screen 

Len 

'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that the idea of wanting to own a recording on a piece of vinyl and to be able to hold it in your hand is necessarily tied to an age thing. There are many people of different ages who would have the same attitude as that young lad because they don't get it, to be a record collector has always been to be different from the 'norm'.

Jo

Just seen that 'Mtay 9778' 's reply says basically what I was trying to say, but more succinctly!

Edited February 3, 2016 by JoPrinsen

[Mark S]

New blood not bothered at all , get what I want out of the scene . If people cant be arsed to do things right then I cant be arsed attending .

 

[Soul Shrews]

On 28-1-2016 at 19:09, Carl Dixon said:

 And my old chestnut, would you buy a screw top bottle of wine or one that is corked?

A screw top or cork will have no relevance to the quality of wine. In fact a screw top could be preferable as it won"t react with the wine and produce "corked"wine syndrome.

All Aussie wine is screw topped for instance.

Cheers Paul

[Joprinsen]

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 11:38, Twoshoes said:

If listening to Northern on laptops is the way young people get into the music and they  grow to love it and keep it alive so be it, I think we maybe do them a disservice assuming they will not progress to wanting to own the actual records

I agree.   

Its not that different from accessing the music on a collection of tapes as I did in my teens (in the '80's as I'm sure others will recall, you could buy (unofficial) tapes that record dealers had put together & you could send off for them too, the NME even did a northern compilation tape in conjunction with Kent in mid '80's I seem to recall, & you could tape stuff yourself off specialist radio shows). I had loads of compilation tapes but that didn't stop me for then seeking out the tracks I loved so I could own them on vinyl.  

In the same way I don’t think that just because youngsters might listen to everything on mP3 at home or on their phone that this will equate to them wanting to hear everything played off laptops at do’s.

Jo                                                                                                                                                                                   

[Len]

55 minutes ago, Jo P said:

In the same way I don’t think that just because youngsters might listen to everything on mP3 at home or on their phone that this will equate to them wanting to hear everything played off laptops at do’s.

Jo                                                                                                                                                                                   

I don't think they'd particularly want to, I don't think they would give it much thought (Not being bothered where the sound is coming from)

Records will always be important to us, but if it goes down another route for the younguns so be it 

Len 

[Joprinsen]

55 minutes ago, LEN said:

I don't think they'd particularly want to, I don't think they would give it much thought (Not being bothered where the sound is coming from)

Records will always be important to us, but if it goes down another route for the younguns so be it 

Len 

Personally I don't think it will though Len as youngsters attracted to the scene wouldn't be 'mainstream'.  I know a few youngsters on the scene in their early '20s & a few who are around 30 & they 'get' the vinyl thing.

Jo

Edited February 3, 2016 by JoPrinsen

[Len]

25 minutes ago, Jo P said:

Personally I don't think it will though Len as youngsters attracted to the scene wouldn't be 'mainstream'.  I know a few youngsters on the scene in their early '20s & a few who are around 30 & they 'get' the vinyl thing.

Jo

That's good, I just can't see many young people being attracted to somewhere where the average age is now 50 - I wasn't mainstream, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere near somewhere when I was that age if my Dad was about! 

It looks like if they're on our scene they will carry on the record thing, but if they do something themselves then that's up to them.

Hey ho 

Len 

[soulfulsevens]

On 1-2-2016 at 12:42, jordirip said:

If I decided to go to a nostalgia night up the road, I wouldn't care what the music was played on, I would be there for social reasons and a giggle. To hear the usual requests and top twenty played on any format would be of no importance to me. The time when it was important to hear those tunes was 35+ years ago. However, kids dressed in the circus uniform, encouraged by mum and dad,  playing these said same tunes, encouraged by mum and dad is ceratainly not a good look and certainly the beginning of the end of any scene I used to love. I'd be on the first bus back.

Youngsters finding their own tunes, wearing their own styles played off any format they want, in any setting they want, danced to how they want, well.....that is more like a healthy outlook. Anyone with taste, young or old, will appreciate a beautiful looking original 45 and understand it's significance. It won't be necessary to lug 200 of the feckers around town on a Saturday night to DJ with though for the new breed.

That's the right mindset for a healthy future.

Personally i'd rather have my kids going out dancing to soul music than some techno crap no matter the source of the audio (vinyl, cd, mp3,...). And if they could embrace all styles of soul music instead of Northern-only more power to them also. As mentioned above by Jordi the dedicated ones will gravitate towards vinyl anyway. Too many rules in this here scene. Kids don't like rules...

[Guest JonnyMonk]

Any social or music scene, regardless of whether it's attendance is from the youngsters or older goers, should retain whatever gives that particular scene integrity shouldn't it? In this particular case, hearing original vinyl and having records always to be discovered is what makes this particular scene interesting, progressive and lends it credibility surely? 

[pow wow mik]

On 28/01/2016 at 00:59, Jem Britttin said:

Must of been a crap big system or illegally downloaded or home made mp3 files. I DJ for a living weddings and the like every weekend and work off mp3/ mp4a played on a system that pushes at least 1500 watts per channel. All my files are brought legally through i tunes and similar as I need 100% reliability and the quality is second to none, plus for my job it's the only format modern chart stuff is available. I also own a few thousand Northern Soul original issue records and have to say the legally made files in a lot of cases nowadays are better than the record.

Ha ha of course you know what will happen in the future: They will be debating on Soul Source 'original downloads v illegal downloads debate over and over again arghhhh 

Maybe, but we won't be playing pop at weddings ;-)

[Joprinsen]

15 hours ago, JonnyMonk said:

Any social or music scene, regardless of whether it's attendance is from the youngsters or older goers, should retain whatever gives that particular scene integrity shouldn't it? In this particular case, hearing original vinyl and having records always to be discovered is what makes this particular scene interesting, progressive and lends it credibility surely? 

Indeed. Well put Jonny. 

Its nice to see talented young DJ's like yourself (I noted your name after seeing you do a great R&B/popcorn set at an afternoon session at the Hideaway Club in Manchester a couple of years ago).

Jo

Edited February 4, 2016 by JoPrinsen

[Len]

15 hours ago, JonnyMonk said:

Any social or music scene, regardless of whether it's attendance is from the youngsters or older goers, should retain whatever gives that particular scene integrity shouldn't it? In this particular case, hearing original vinyl and having records always to be discovered is what makes this particular scene interesting, progressive and lends it credibility surely? 

Yes of course, but some people can be 'Oh so OVO' (Shouting it from the roof tops), which may put off some kid that is only interested in enjoying the sounds.

Keep collecting mate 

Len 

[Joprinsen]

22 hours ago, LEN said:

That's good, I just can't see many young people being attracted to somewhere where the average age is now 50 - I wasn't mainstream, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere near somewhere when I was that age if my Dad was about! 

It looks like if they're on our scene they will carry on the record thing, but if they do something themselves then that's up to them.

Hey ho 

Len 

Wouldn't the extension of that argument be that they would reject the music their parents were into too, why single out the vinyl (pun unintended)?

I'm your age Len (give or take 1 year) & when I started going to soul do's in the late '80's the majority on the soul scene were at least twice my age, same at the Allnighters  in the '90's (when I was in my 20's) but I never found that an issue - & we're still here & the scene hasn't 'died'.  Incidentally I was on the mod scene at the same time (where people were around my age) & we were putting on our own mod do's & DJing in our early '20's.

There's the 'Wigan Young Souls' today putting on their own vinyl based do's...

Jo

Edited February 4, 2016 by JoPrinsen

[Len]

8 minutes ago, Jo P said:

Wouldn't the extension of that argument be that they would reject the music their parents were into too, why single out the vinyl (pun unintended)?

I'm your age Len (give or take 1 year) & when I started going to soul do's in the late '80's the majority on the soul scene were at least twice my age, same at the Allnighters  in the '90's (when I was in my 20's) but I never found that an issue - & we're still here & the scene hasn't 'died'.  Incidentally I was on the mod scene at the same time (where people were around my age) & we were putting on our own mod do's & DJing in our early '20's.

There's the 'Wigan Young Souls' today putting on their own vinyl based do's...

Jo

My Dad was keen on Johnny Mathis - How could I reject that?!  I singled out the vinyl because nowadays there are other options to how people can listen to the sounds - I know taking that bit away from us would be too much, which is understandable because we have the collecting side as an added interest.

If 'The Wigan Young Souls' are doing it our way, then power to em / I personally also say power to anyone young that enjoys the music through what means they choose.

That's my view anyway, I was interested in other peoples' views - Like a post earlier, someone said ten years ago he had a very different view, but now not as bothered if it means the music carries on being enjoyed.

Len 

 

[Len]

Don't panic folks - If the Amish can stick to their traditions, I'm sure we can for the foreseeable future 

All the best,

Len

 

 

[Joprinsen]

50 minutes ago, LEN said:

My Dad was keen on Johnny Mathis - How could I reject that?!  I singled out the vinyl because nowadays there are other options to how people can listen to the sounds - I know taking that bit away from us would be too much, which is understandable because we have the collecting side as an added interest.

If 'The Wigan Young Souls' are doing it our way, then power to em / I personally also say power to anyone young that enjoys the music through what means they choose.

That's my view anyway, I was interested in other peoples' views - Like a post earlier, someone said ten years ago he had a very different view, but now not as bothered if it means the music carries on being enjoyed.

Len 

 

There have been other options to how people can listen to the sounds for years though! (CD's have been around for 30 years now). No other format is as suited to the authentic unadulterated sound of the music as the analogue format it was intended to be heard on though, so maybe that's partly why vinyl has endured all these years & in my opinion will continue to do so.  Anyway, an interesting debate that you have started Len, Cheers.

Jo

Edited February 4, 2016 by JoPrinsen

[pow wow mik]

Vintage music scenes are inextricably linked to record collecting though, and for good reason.

I dont think so many people would be attracted to the culture of DJing if it really was reduced to downloading mp3s of known music and 'putting them together in an order that works!' - there is some skill to that part of DJing, but not much, and it's a skill that is a lot more easily acquired than an interesting record collection is. 

The thing about collecting as a component of DJing is that it is the creative aspect - the bit where you can genuinely do something no one else has, the bit where genuine cultural influence can be in the hands of a normal person. That is - finding unknown or barely known music and presenting it to the world.

That and that alone is the real pay-off for djs, filling dancefloors is great, but without the process of bringing new tunes through, is creatively vacuous, and makes you little more than a hipper wedding DJ.

Considering that, it stands to reason that when there is the sense that there is nothing realisticly left to find, for the average collector / dj, that is fresh to their audience's ears, the thing will gradually fizzle out. At that point, record collecting will be reduced to an individual enterprise, based on individual collecting goals, will lose any relationship to social culture and will fizzle out too.

Thats the reason tbat the creative end of the soul scene has explored new genres and styles, and is why the mod and r&b scenes are still relatively creative - they're a generation or two behind northern soul and have a wider musical scope, so, whether 20 or 70, theres still things to find for the DJ that will let them do something individual and creative.

Listening through tunes on youtube or downloads lists, and chosing the ones you like isnt only tbe preserve of young people anyway - why would that be more popular with a 20 year old than a 40 year old?? - but in any case I can never see it giving people the sense of expression and adventure that djing via record collecting does.

When every decent tune is either pressed or digitalised then djing as we know it, and the culture that goes with it, is over; it might well be the case, as you suggest, that a new culture of selecting tunes from a list and putting them together well develops, where I suppose effort and knowledge would come through in its own way, but it wouldnt be the competitive, creative and varied adventure that this, in all its variations, has been.

Edited February 5, 2016 by pow wow mik
Typo

[Maryam Snape]

I DJ mainly off vinyl, with some CDs as back up. I can't afford to buy many originals but do prefer to play records whenever possible.

I did a request night on Saturday, first time I've done it. Had two 7 inch boxes with me, CDs and a laptop. Played every request asked for and had people come up and say it was the best night of their lives.

Glad I could make some people happy even if I had to turn to the laptop for some of the tunes.

P.S. If anyone is about to kark it and wants to leave me their record collection feel free! 

[Daved]

On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 08:00, pow wow mik said:

Vintage music scenes are inextricably linked to record collecting though, and for good reason.

I dont think so many people would be attracted to the culture of DJing if it really was reduced to downloading mp3s of known music and 'putting them together in an order that works!' - there is some skill to that part of DJing, but not much, and it's a skill that is a lot more easily acquired than an interesting record collection is. 

The thing about collecting as a component of DJing is that it is the creative aspect - the bit where you can genuinely do something no one else has, the bit where genuine cultural influence can be in the hands of a normal person. That is - finding unknown or barely known music and presenting it to the world.

That and that alone is the real pay-off for djs, filling dancefloors is great, but without the process of bringing new tunes through, is creatively vacuous, and makes you little more than a hipper wedding DJ.

Considering that, it stands to reason that when there is the sense that there is nothing realisticly left to find, for the average collector / dj, that is fresh to their audience's ears, the thing will gradually fizzle out. At that point, record collecting will be reduced to an individual enterprise, based on individual collecting goals, will lose any relationship to social culture and will fizzle out too.

Thats the reason tbat the creative end of the soul scene has explored new genres and styles, and is why the mod and r&b scenes are still relatively creative - they're a generation or two behind northern soul and have a wider musical scope, so, whether 20 or 70, theres still things to find for the DJ that will let them do something individual and creative.

Listening through tunes on youtube or downloads lists, and chosing the ones you like isnt only tbe preserve of young people anyway - why would that be more popular with a 20 year old than a 40 year old?? - but in any case I can never see it giving people the sense of expression and adventure that djing via record collecting does.

When every decent tune is either pressed or digitalised then djing as we know it, and the culture that goes with it, is over; it might well be the case, as you suggest, that a new culture of selecting tunes from a list and putting them together well develops, where I suppose effort and knowledge would come through in its own way, but it wouldnt be the competitive, creative and varied adventure that this, in all its variations, has been.

I think you’re about 10-15 years too late in posting that. There’s plenty of house DJ’s dj’ing from a USB stick that present new music and are creative. The format is irrelevant to that surely. In my opinion, it’s more difficult to become a very good DJ than it is to build arecord collection. Sure, you can pick up the basics quickly, but not become somebody who people enjoy listening to time after time. There’s plenty of people with good record collections on the northern soul scene that are quite boring DJ’s.

[pow wow mik]

5 hours ago, daved said:

I think you’re about 10-15 years too late in posting that. There’s plenty of house DJ’s dj’ing from a USB stick that present new music and are creative. The format is irrelevant to that surely. In my opinion, it’s more difficult to become a very good DJ than it is to build arecord collection. Sure, you can pick up the basics quickly, but not become somebody who people enjoy listening to time after time. There’s plenty of people with good record collections on the northern soul scene that are quite boring DJ’s.

A house dj playing known old records on a usb stick is unlikely to be doing anything that creative actually, but might still be mixing on a midi interface type thing, beat mixing and adding effects, loops etc. You know - things that require a bit of skill and creativity? 

Cant quite see how doing the same with old soul records would leave room for any creative input from the dj except picking the tunes and playing them after each other...wow.

Whatever era of the soul or mod scenes - the creativity and excitement hasnt been predominantly due to djs' skills but their ability to find unknown records.

As digital djing doesnt involve any of that, it wont have the creativity and excitement of the past scene. Pretty much as I said before.

[Maryam Snape]

7 hours ago, daved said:

I think you’re about 10-15 years too late in posting that. There’s plenty of house DJ’s dj’ing from a USB stick that present new music and are creative. The format is irrelevant to that surely. In my opinion, it’s more difficult to become a very good DJ than it is to build arecord collection. Sure, you can pick up the basics quickly, but not become somebody who people enjoy listening to time after time. There’s plenty of people with good record collections on the northern soul scene that are quite boring DJ’s.

I've seen DJs with amazing records who aren't great at flow or reading the room and responding to the crowd, it's all a package isn't it? 

Some DJs who play off originals just search eBay then check what they sound like on YouTube, it's the new version of crate digging.

Also I always think it's good to bring 2 formats (such as vinyl & cd) in case something goes wrong with decks or anything.

[Ian Dewhirst]

On 2/4/2016 at 12:48, Jo P said:

There have been other options to how people can listen to the sounds for years though! (CD's have been around for 30 years now). No other format is as suited to the authentic unadulterated sound of the music as the analogue format it was intended to be heard on though, so maybe that's partly why vinyl has endured all these years & in my opinion will continue to do so.  Anyway, an interesting debate that you have started Len, Cheers.

Jo

Errrr no actually. The CD is actually a much better medium and much more efficient at transmitting a studio recording than vinyl could ever be. Nowhere near as sexy for sure, but for those who study this stuff, the CD is the best carrier bar none. And I'm saying that having bought 300 records in the last 5 months!

https://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162

Ian D

[Joprinsen]

On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 23:53, Ian Dewhirst said:

On ‎04‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 12:48, Jo P said:

There have been other options to how people can listen to the sounds for years though! (CD's have been around for 30 years now). No other format is as suited to the authentic unadulterated sound of the music as the analogue format it was intended to be heard on though, so maybe that's partly why vinyl has endured all these years & in my opinion will continue to do so.  Anyway, an interesting debate that you have started Len, Cheers.

Jo

Errrr no actually. The CD is actually a much better medium and much more efficient at transmitting a studio recording than vinyl could ever be. Nowhere near as sexy for sure, but for those who study this stuff, the CD is the best carrier bar none. And I'm saying that having bought 300 records in the last 5 months!

https://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162

Ian D

Ian, I wasn't getting into which medium is 'better', most efficient etc. (even the article you posted a link to acknowledges that what sounds better is a subjective thing & includes the disclaimer 'may' in its title).

What I was saying is that where an original recording, production and sound engineering was done for vinyl (it was intended to be heard on vinyl) it follows that vinyl is still the most authentic medium to hear it on - as the recording process, production etc. was all geared towards analogue not digital.

Tracks from the '60's & '70's that have been put on CDs quite often sound noticeably different to on the original vinyl. Possibly because the sound engineers that put them together bring modern production values to them - they isolate and bring to the fore a certain instrument for example that was in the background on the original vinyl recording & it can change the whole 'feel' of the track.

 I've edited this from yesterday in an attempt to be a bit more succinct.

Jo  

Edited February 10, 2016 by JoPrinsen
to be more succinct!

[Joprinsen]

On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 13:57, Maryam Snape said:

I DJ mainly off vinyl, with some CDs as back up. I can't afford to buy many originals but do prefer to play records whenever possible.

I did a request night on Saturday, first time I've done it. Had two 7 inch boxes with me, CDs and a laptop. Played every request asked for and had people come up and say it was the best night of their lives.

Glad I could make some people happy even if I had to turn to the laptop for some of the tunes.

P.S. If anyone is about to kark it and wants to leave me their record collection feel free! 

Hi Mazzy, You'll be able to offer a pretty unique perspective here because at your club you have your Saturday nights that you mention above which I know are usually well attended by a mixed age range and then you also have your 'Northern Soul Fridays' (I've yet to get to one but would like to) which you advertise as 'strictly original vinyl', seeing your post made me wonder how does the age range demographic compare between those 2 types of events you put on?

Jo

Edited February 11, 2016 by JoPrinsen
added my name at the end

[Maryam Snape]

19 hours ago, Jo P said:

Hi Mazzy, You'll be able to offer a pretty unique perspective here because at your club you have your Saturday nights that you mention above which I know are usually well attended by a mixed age range and then you also have your 'Northern Soul Fridays' (I've yet to get to one but would like to) which you advertise as 'strictly original vinyl', seeing your post made me wonder how does the age range demographic compare between those 2 types of events you put on?

Yes it is an older crowd on a Friday, not as busy but this means more room to dance which also goes down well with original fans.

Saturdays are always packed with old and young because the music is more of a mix with Northern/Motown/60s r n b/funk/ska etc.. Also some of the purist Northern fans that used to come Fridays have started coming Saturdays as well as they know we can play their requests and they like the atmosphere.

 

[Professorturnups]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 12:13, Maryam Snape said:

Yes it is an older crowd on a Friday, not as busy but this means more room to dance which also goes down well with original fans.

Saturdays are always packed with old and young because the music is more of a mix with Northern/Motown/60s r n b/funk/ska etc.. Also some of the purist Northern fans that used to come Fridays have started coming Saturdays as well as they know we can play their requests and they like the atmosphere.

 

Northern purists at a night of Northern/Motown/RnB/Funk/Ska? That is surely a contradiction.

Mark C

 

 

[Maryam Snape]

15 hours ago, professorturnups said:

Northern purists at a night of Northern/Motown/RnB/Funk/Ska? That is surely a contradiction.

Mark C

 

 

 

15 hours ago, professorturnups said:

Northern purists at a night of Northern/Motown/RnB/Funk/Ska? That is surely a contradiction.

Mark C

 

 

Perhaps wasn't clear sorry.

Some people who normally go to strictly Northern nights have started coming to the Saturdays as well

Does that make sense?

[Suinoz]

On 2/8/2016 at 15:57, Maryam Snape said:

I DJ mainly off vinyl, with some CDs as back up. I can't afford to buy many originals but do prefer to play records whenever possible.

I did a request night on Saturday, first time I've done it. Had two 7 inch boxes with me, CDs and a laptop. Played every request asked for and had people come up and say it was the best night of their lives.

Glad I could make some people happy even if I had to turn to the laptop for some of the tunes.

P.S. If anyone is about to kark it and wants to leave me their record collection feel free! 

Sorry Maryam I ain't about to kark it and have sold all my records, replaced em with a nice Audi R8 tho, fancy that??

[Maryam Snape]

12 minutes ago, suinoz said:

Sorry Maryam I ain't about to kark it and have sold all my records, replaced em with a nice Audi R8 tho, fancy that??

[Guest Tuckaroo]

Im a newby to this site and have read all the comments on here with interest. I believe there are several schools of thought but I believe that if your happy with something then its right for you. To many people are afraid what other people think. Me personally I love collecting vinyl, and yes would love to have them all as originals but scarcity and stupid prices prevent that so quite a lot of mine are reissues. To me as long as a poster advertising an event is accurate and not misleading as to the format playing the music then people can make their own mind up as to wether they go or not.

[Guest Byrney]

On Monday, February 08, 2016 at 22:22, pow wow mik said:

A house dj playing known old records on a usb stick is unlikely to be doing anything that creative actually, but might still be mixing on a midi interface type thing, beat mixing and adding effects, loops etc. You know - things that require a bit of skill and creativity? 

Cant quite see how doing the same with old soul records would leave room for any creative input from the dj except picking the tunes and playing them after each other...wow.

Whatever era of the soul or mod scenes - the creativity and excitement hasnt been predominantly due to djs' skills but their ability to find unknown records.

As digital djing doesnt involve any of that, it wont have the creativity and excitement of the past scene. Pretty much as I said before.

You're right, House does offer much more scope for creativity than soul. DJs like Detroit's Terrace Parker in the main plays classic house with well knowm bits of electro,  techno,  pop and classics like Hamilton Bohanan. But one of the most interesting sets of 'tired old standards' you'll ever see / hear.

Here's the difference though - with midi sync tracks and with a high level of skill you can have 2 / 3 tracks in the mix simultaneously for 10 minutes in effect creating a new track. Mix in vocals, scratch over it, play 2 of the same tracks a quarter beat behind to phase, play a full beat behind and cross fade from each to back beat, even turn your needle upside down and cut into one track playing backwards.

That's why a skilled house DJs playing the same old same old is completely different to.your wedding Nostalgia DJS. 

[Guest Tuckaroo]

But what your talking about is a comparison between 2 totally different genres of music, I personally cant stand house music so it wouldn't matter how skilled the DJ was or wasn't, wheras im a 60s 70s soul fan and wouldn't want to see these tracks messed around with, each to their own I suppose

[Ian Dewhirst]

On 2/9/2016 at 11:22, Jo P said:

Ian, I wasn't getting into which medium is 'better', most efficient etc. (even the article you posted a link to acknowledges that what sounds better is a subjective thing & includes the disclaimer 'may' in its title).

What I was saying is that where an original recording, production and sound engineering was done for vinyl (it was intended to be heard on vinyl) it follows that vinyl is still the most authentic medium to hear it on - as the recording process, production etc. was all geared towards analogue not digital.

Tracks from the '60's & '70's that have been put on CDs quite often sound noticeably different to on the original vinyl. Possibly because the sound engineers that put them together bring modern production values to them - they isolate and bring to the fore a certain instrument for example that was in the background on the original vinyl recording & it can change the whole 'feel' of the track.

 I've edited this from yesterday in an attempt to be a bit more succinct.

Jo  

LOL, I hear ya Jo,

It is subjective. That's 100% for sure. I'm in the business of locating the best possible masters of old recordings for reissues and, in terms of quality and clarity, there is no beating a perfectly mastered CD or WAV file. Access to the original analogue tapes, then transferring them to digital and then re-mastering them will undoubtedly result in a better master, but no one wants to pay the money to do that these days. Re-mastering from original clean vinyl using propriety software and cleansing techniques is OK but still very limited in terms of quality and sounds quite obviously dubbed from vinyl in 80% of cases. Hence the reason why I have to maintain and grow my comprehensive CD collection even though it pains me to do so because CDs and Digital files lack credibility in this domain.

In order to counteract this, I have spent the last 5 months assembling another collection of the best 7" vinyl copies of all my favorite records of all-time plus all the other records I love which, thus far, are generally unknown. I'm buying more vinyl right now than I have for the last 30 years and I'd say that my current collection is the BEST one I've ever owned in 62 years. By a huge margin.

But here's the rub: I am tending to focus on the 70s more than the 60s which is interesting. The 60s recording techniques and mixes I've loved and lived with for 45 years sound dated to me now. Plus I've probably heard them too many times, So, apart from some 60s stuff I'll never get tired of, my ears are more geared to the 70s stuff these days. And, just in case the owners can no longer locate the tapes, I do happen to have probably the best Mint Vinyl collection of 45s of this stuff in the world right now.

But I still can't quite get to be succinct for some reason........:)

Ian D

 

[Guest Byrney]

47 minutes ago, Tuckaroo said:

But what your talking about is a comparison between 2 totally different genres of music, I personally cant stand house music so it wouldn't matter how skilled the DJ was or wasn't, wheras im a 60s 70s soul fan and wouldn't want to see these tracks messed around with, each to their own I suppose

Absolutley two different genres - my point is about that a nostalgia DJ playing the usual 30 records off say a lap top offers zero scope for creativity - however if we took the top 30 classic house records, again off a lap top but mixed by someone like Parker it's a completely different ball game with creativity by the bucket load.

thats why I have little interest in the majority of nostalgia scene DJs - even OVO. Might as well put an iPod shuffle on  

[Guest Tuckaroo]

To be fair its not about the skill or creativity level, if it was I would go and watch a live band or singer who are being a lot more creative than anyone spinning records as a DJ whatever type of music their playing. I love Motown, Northern 60s R&B, Ska and Mod etc etc that's what I want to listen to. As I said before each to their own, which is great as it woukd be pretty boring if we all liked the same stuff.