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Are we really gonna let it die with us?

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Quinvy said:

I have only experienced a couple of these play off a laptop do's, and that was a few years ago. But the sound quality of both was excruciatingly bad. MP3 downloads might be OK to play at home or in the car, but put them through a big system and you soon discover their limitations.

The other thing that I can't "get" about the young people coming into "the music" is why they feel the need to wear the uniform of baggy trousers and flared skirts?

I'm no expert on the sound quality point, so will take your word on that - That is an important point though (Maybe some would disagree if the right kit was used)

People are influenced by their peers, so I expect the young ones that choose to dress as they do are around older folk that do / or they went down the digital route to find things out, and that's what popped up - Their choice of course, but you don't need a uniform to be a soul fan.

Len :thumbsup:

Edited by LEN

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Posted
On 26 January 2016 at 12:20, RICK SCOTT said:

NO NO A Thousand Times NO....................

 

DJ (A person who plays RECORDS And CDs of CD Only Tracks New release or Otherwise) Be it at a Northern Soul Or Modern Soul Event

 

 

Rick - what about a dj who plays off an effing lap top ? I went to a local soul night years ago that's all he had, by passing the pressing and original record mob, What's next I'll stick my memory stick in I've got a whole set on here, in fact I can go to the bar buy a drink and dance to my own tunes - the future !!!

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Posted
Just now, ZoomSoulBlue said:

Rick - what about a dj who plays off an effing lap top ? I went to a local soul night years ago that's all he had, by passing the pressing and original record mob, What's next I'll stick my memory stick in I've got a whole set on here, in fact I can go to the bar buy a drink and dance to my own tunes - the future !!!

If it was done like that (Chap sticks his memory stick in and heads to the bar) that wouldn't be DJing, and there would be no passion behind what he is doing, so yes, of course that would be awful.

Len :thumbsup:

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Posted

I think people are looking at this topic from the standpoint of the established scene which most of us have be on for donkeys years.

The essence of the established scene is and always was about attending venues to hear new sounds or at least hear sounds that could not be heard every day of the week. These sounds were always the domain of a selected few DJ's/collectors no matter which period of the scene is scrutinized, and they have almost totally dried up.

Perhaps a parallel "young 'uns" scene would be similar, but would not need ultra rare records to achieve this. Lets face it newcomers to the music would be quite happy to dance to sounds they don't know etc. even if they were the Mirwoods/Ric-tics Etc., that we all cut our teeth on. Since just about everything is available via the internet the "rare vinyl" aspect of the scene means nothing to the young 'uns since they can get it no matter how rare on vinyl. Perhaps the young 'uns scene won't suffer from the "its played cos it rare" shite that has bedeviled the scene for years. Lets face it there are 1000's of sounds to go at so DJ sets would still be varied and not repetitive.

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

I think people are looking at this topic from the standpoint of the established scene which most of us have be on for donkeys years.

The essence of the established scene is and always was about attending venues to hear new sounds or at least hear sounds that could not be heard every day of the week. These sounds were always the domain of a selected few DJ's/collectors no matter which period of the scene is scrutinized, and they have almost totally dried up.

Perhaps a parallel "young 'uns" scene would be similar, but would not need ultra rare records to achieve this. Lets face it newcomers to the music would be quite happy to dance to sounds they don't know etc. even if they were the Mirwoods/Ric-tics Etc., that we all cut our teeth on. Since just about everything is available via the internet the "rare vinyl" aspect of the scene means nothing to the young 'uns since they can get it no matter how rare on vinyl. Perhaps the young 'uns scene won't suffer from the "its played cos it rare" shite that has bedeviled the scene for years. Lets face it there are 1000's of sounds to go at so DJ sets would still be varied and not repetitive.

There are thousands of records, but there aren't thousands of top quality records that are what we would call "northern"

I don't think it would take long for a young person who really devoured the music to get to a point where he/she was struggling to find something new. After all you can just plug in your earpiece and get an endless supply of "classics" that it took us many years to find and play. 

Just imagine hearing our music for the first time today. Bang! you have access to 40 years of an underground scene instantly at your finger tips. 

Too easy? Just not the same is it? How are you going to value something that can be accessed at any time?

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Quinvy said:

There are thousands of records, but there aren't thousands of top quality records that are what we would call "northern"

I don't think it would take long for a young person who really devoured the music to get to a point where he/she was struggling to find something new. After all you can just plug in your earpiece and get an endless supply of "classics" that it took us many years to find and play. 

Just imagine hearing our music for the first time today. Bang! you have access to 40 years of an underground scene instantly at your finger tips. 

Too easy? Just not the same is it? How are you going to value something that can be accessed at any time?

As I said in my original post, I don't think the young 'uns will give a flying f*ck about value just quality of the sounds.

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

As I said in my original post, I don't think the young 'uns will give a flying f*ck about value just quality of the sounds.

I didn't mean monetary value, I meant emotionally.

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Posted
On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 18:43, illusive said:

Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons Len !!! :wicked:

without hesitation, repetition or deviation, your time starts now!

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Quinvy said:

I have only experienced a couple of these play off a laptop do's, and that was a few years ago. But the sound quality of both was excruciatingly bad. MP3 downloads might be OK to play at home or in the car, but put them through a big system and you soon discover their limitations.

The other thing that I can't "get" about the young people coming into "the music" is why they feel the need to wear the uniform of baggy trousers and flared skirts?

Must of been a crap big system or illegally downloaded or home made mp3 files. I DJ for a living weddings and the like every weekend and work off mp3/ mp4a played on a system that pushes at least 1500 watts per channel. All my files are brought legally through i tunes and similar as I need 100% reliability and the quality is second to none, plus for my job it's the only format modern chart stuff is available. I also own a few thousand Northern Soul original issue records and have to say the legally made files in a lot of cases nowadays are better than the record.

Ha ha of course you know what will happen in the future: They will be debating on Soul Source 'original downloads v illegal downloads debate over and over again arghhhh :g::P

Edited by Jem Britttin

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Posted

Another side to this: If we take the premise that Northern Soul records are getting rarer to acquire for various reasons, surely it is a good thing to get plenty of licensed decent copies on files for preservation purposes. I know plenty of bigger label publishing companies hold original master tapes etc. but how long for? and it would be interesting to know if any original master tapes still exist at all for some of the more obscure label stuff, this being the case essentially the only original hard copy recordings would be the records! I may be wide of the mark here so would welcome the view of anyone who has real inside or professional knowledge about this ? :thumbsup: 

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Posted

I have recently returned to dj'ing after about forty years. I live abroad and have sold most of my collection. When I dj I have a memory stick with about 2,000 tracks on it. I don't have a playlist but maybe a few sounds that I want to play. When I used to dj I would have about 200 sounds to pick from but now, with such a vast repertoir, it's a lot easier to follow the dancefloor and keep it busy. I try to stick to sounds that I have owned but.........

The (mainly) old crowd that I play for make requests (in fact I print request sheets and scatter them round the club) and I have never been one to refuse a request unless it's really inappropriate - say Dock of the Bay or something. I was asked for Stanky Get Funky, which is a sound which I would never have bought, and get requests for rarer stuff which I would never have been able to buy. I play them.

I was in England a few years ago and went to an ovo soul night, there was some good music played but the dancefloor was totally ignored, I found this a massive culture shock. Any definition of Northern Soul must include the word 'dance'. The newer, younger people want to hear music they can dance to and it's a bit silly to try to tell them they can't because I don't own a particular piece of vinyl - it means nothing to them unfortunately.

Back in the day we all went to nighters where pressings, bootlegs and EMIdisks were played, didn't we? During the week we all listened to ilegal tapes made from live venues didn't we? Would we have stopped going to nighters if the sounds were more readily available? I doubt it.

I have only one queasy feeling about playing rips and downloads and that is PRS, which let's face it has always been a bit of a grey area.

A few that were requested at my last gig:

George Blackwell~Can't Lose My Head

Greater Experience~Don't Forget to Remember

Ty Karim~You Just Don't Know

Bill Bush - I'm Waiting

 

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Posted
19 hours ago, Quinvy said:

I didn't mean monetary value, I meant emotionally.

Since the young 'uns won't have spent years searching for a particular record and then had the joy of finding it in some god forsaken backwoods record shop, they won't have any emotional attachment to it either. The only factor will be the quality of the sounds and their dance floor reaction, (hmmm a bit like the early seventies).

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Since the young 'uns won't have spent years searching for a particular record and then had the joy of finding it in some god forsaken backwoods record shop, they won't have any emotional attachment to it either. The only factor will be the quality of the sounds and their dance floor reaction, (hmmm a bit like the early seventies).

That's only true if you are a collector. The vast majority of people didn't/don't collect records thank god! :-)

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Drewtg said:

That's only true if you are a collector. The vast majority of people didn't/don't collect records thank god! :-)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what Kegsy is saying is on the contrary - He's saying that these younguns wouldn't have the emotional connection as a collector would have (after all the hard work they put in to researching, and finding records) The factor they would have is how much they enjoy the actual sounds,  basically the same as the early 70's when only a small percentage of people were actually hunting out the tunes - He's saying that isn't such a bad thing.

Is that right Kegsy? 

Len :thumbsup:

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Posted
6 minutes ago, LEN said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what Kegsy is saying is on the contrary - He's saying that these younguns wouldn't have the emotional connection as a collector would have (after all the hard work they put in to researching, and finding records) The factor they would have is how much they enjoy the actual sounds,  basically the same as the early 70's when only a small percentage of people were actually hunting out the tunes - He's saying that isn't such a bad thing.

Is that right Kegsy? 

Len :thumbsup:

The nail right on the head mate.

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Posted (edited)

I think a good outcome for the future would be O.V.O./ L.D. (legal download) venues ..ha ha or Len Dopson as it's his fault :).... seriously, still keep the decks in for stuff that isn't available on legal download or is an interesting vinyl discovery and the tried and trusted classics etc. could be played from mp3, people could then also play some of the unissued tracks that only exist on file format, saving the bother of getting it put on a carver and as a bonus it would also curb the illegal vinyl bootleggers. Both formats have a future then and i really feel it would enrich a night. How frustrating is it as a DJ, when someone requests a reasonably obvious track and 'genuinely' you have left it a home? For those that have the where with all and desire to track down seldom or never heard records there should always be a place, as I am sure we ain't heard it all yet!

 

Edited by Jem Britttin

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Posted
52 minutes ago, LEN said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what Kegsy is saying is on the contrary - He's saying that these younguns wouldn't have the emotional connection as a collector would have (after all the hard work they put in to researching, and finding records) The factor they would have is how much they enjoy the actual sounds,  basically the same as the early 70's when only a small percentage of people were actually hunting out the tunes - He's saying that isn't such a bad thing.

Is that right Kegsy? 

Len :thumbsup:

Yeah I agree if you are talking about collectors but let's be honest, most folk are not collectors. Even in the early 70's a lot of dj's were fed records"discovered" by someone else who had done the dirty work. Btw what's so bad about the early 70's? That's when most of the best music was unearthed isn't it?

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Posted
20 minutes ago, LEN said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what Kegsy is saying is on the contrary - He's saying that these younguns wouldn't have the emotional connection as a collector would have (after all the hard work they put in to researching, and finding records) The factor they would have is how much they enjoy the actual sounds,  basically the same as the early 70's when only a small percentage of people were actually hunting out the tunes - He's saying that isn't such a bad thing.

Is that right Kegsy? 

Len :thumbsup:

Hey Len, This topic was always gonna come up, it was just a matter of time. Glad it was you and not me that started it, well done mate. No matter what opinions are put forward there will always be a few that will disagree as with any kind of topic, questionnaire. SO i will try to put my opinion in without 'HOPEFULLY" putting my foot in it and causing a riot online. As many on here well know i had a great collection of original records that i collected over many years, and had the pleasure of deejaying at many venues in the U.K. Had many pleasant times hunting for the elusive tunes in attics, op shops etc. and managed to "find" the Nolan Chance on Bunky which today there are still only one or possibly two known copies (but that is for another topic which has been discussed on here). I decided to sell my whole collection four years ago and it coincided with a move from Australia to Kefalonia in the Greek islands. Many reasons made me sell up. I personally got fed up with the "chin strokers" worrying whether or not OVO was being played and owning many of the records i had caused some jealousy among people i knew and there was always the feeling of being back stabbed just because i had those sounds. One day, and it was after doing the 'first spot' at an allnighter where i played every top record i had including Ree Flores, Al Willams, Calvin Grayson, Pat Lewis, Betty Wilson to name a few, and a guy came up on stage and said "what you playing all them for, what about the other deeejays that are coming on later? That really was the straw that broke the camels back for me and i decided i "was over it all". The rest is history and there are many people on here who benefited from buying a lot of my stuff. Anyway to get back on topic, what i did before i sold them was buy a turntable that connected to my laptop and i played every single record, A and B side, and they were stored on a hard drive for prosperity. So they were downloaded from my ORIGINAL VINYL right?? When i moved here to Kefalonia we started a Soul night three nights a week and yes i play everything from my hard drive through a Numark double deck tune selector which shows the tune qued up on my laptop, then via a mixer, amp and through the speakers. There would be no room to take 1000's of records anyway. We have no problems with the sound quality. Most of the crap sound systems  being used now are so old and well used that no wonder the music sounds like it's coming through bean tins. The point here is we have many "original soulies" visit the club throughout the year, some went to Wigan, Blackpool etc and are still active on "the scene" now, and no-one worries "where the sound comes from" they are there to dance, socialize and have a good time. What i am saying is the tunes i have are from my records, some 5000 of them and the range of tunes is there to cater for anyone that comes through the doors. I "moved on" while there was still a demand, and the money i got from the records i owned went to give me and Sue a better life, and the opportunity to travel and do basically what we want. In my opinion most of the young ones coming through now will NEVER have the money to buy all the expensive originals that are out there unless they have a fantastic job. So just where will the records end up. Probably thrown into the graves of the owners. This is just my opinion, and i still love to ferret in record shops, op shops and the like. In fact i recently returned from Australia with over 300 records, some will end up on our "wall of fame" in the bar along with all the posters/memorabilia etc. It used to be 'what's in the groove that counts but we are now in the 21st century. To summarize....It's the sound, not where it comes from that's important. Yes i know i am going to 'get it in the neck" for this reply, but sorry guy's "I do have an opinion" and it is mine only.  Oh and our soul bar is full every night, and no-one is under 45.   T Bone.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Drewtg said:

Yeah I agree if you are talking about collectors but let's be honest, most folk are not collectors. Even in the early 70's a lot of dj's were fed records"discovered" by someone else who had done the dirty work. Btw what's so bad about the early 70's? That's when most of the best music was unearthed isn't it?

You are missing the point old boy. I'm saying that in the early seventies DJ's HAD to play records on merit NOT because they were 1 of only 3 known copies !!!!!.  Court Davis is an example, very rare record back then, got played and dropped almost immediately as nobody really like it, its a crap record IMHO.

Edited by Kegsy

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Drewtg said:

Yeah I agree if you are talking about collectors but let's be honest, most folk are not collectors. Even in the early 70's a lot of dj's were fed records"discovered" by someone else who had done the dirty work. Btw what's so bad about the early 70's? That's when most of the best music was unearthed isn't it?

Most folk are not collectors I agree, but there's a tad few more that see themselves as DJ's as was back then / up to the late 80's, (even mid 90's actually). DJing didn't cross most punters minds in the slightest, they just went and danced like b*stards to the fantastic sounds! 

Who said the 70's was bad? 1970 was a great year - It was the year I was born! :D

Len :thumbsup:

 

Edited by LEN

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, suinoz said:

Hey Len, This topic was always gonna come up, it was just a matter of time. Glad it was you and not me that started it, well done mate. No matter what opinions are put forward there will always be a few that will disagree as with any kind of topic, questionnaire. SO i will try to put my opinion in without 'HOPEFULLY" putting my foot in it and causing a riot online. As many on here well know i had a great collection of original records that i collected over many years, and had the pleasure of deejaying at many venues in the U.K. Had many pleasant times hunting for the elusive tunes in attics, op shops etc. and managed to "find" the Nolan Chance on Bunky which today there are still only one or possibly two known copies (but that is for another topic which has been discussed on here). I decided to sell my whole collection four years ago and it coincided with a move from Australia to Kefalonia in the Greek islands. Many reasons made me sell up. I personally got fed up with the "chin strokers" worrying whether or not OVO was being played and owning many of the records i had caused some jealousy among people i knew and there was always the feeling of being back stabbed just because i had those sounds. One day, and it was after doing the 'first spot' at an allnighter where i played every top record i had including Ree Flores, Al Willams, Calvin Grayson, Pat Lewis, Betty Wilson to name a few, and a guy came up on stage and said "what you playing all them for, what about the other deeejays that are coming on later? That really was the straw that broke the camels back for me and i decided i "was over it all". The rest is history and there are many people on here who benefited from buying a lot of my stuff. Anyway to get back on topic, what i did before i sold them was buy a turntable that connected to my laptop and i played every single record, A and B side, and they were stored on a hard drive for prosperity. So they were downloaded from my ORIGINAL VINYL right?? When i moved here to Kefalonia we started a Soul night three nights a week and yes i play everything from my hard drive through a Numark double deck tune selector which shows the tune qued up on my laptop, then via a mixer, amp and through the speakers. There would be no room to take 1000's of records anyway. We have no problems with the sound quality. Most of the crap sound systems  being used now are so old and well used that no wonder the music sounds like it's coming through bean tins. The point here is we have many "original soulies" visit the club throughout the year, some went to Wigan, Blackpool etc and are still active on "the scene" now, and no-one worries "where the sound comes from" they are there to dance, socialize and have a good time. What i am saying is the tunes i have are from my records, some 5000 of them and the range of tunes is there to cater for anyone that comes through the doors. I "moved on" while there was still a demand, and the money i got from the records i owned went to give me and Sue a better life, and the opportunity to travel and do basically what we want. In my opinion most of the young ones coming through now will NEVER have the money to buy all the expensive originals that are out there unless they have a fantastic job. So just where will the records end up. Probably thrown into the graves of the owners. This is just my opinion, and i still love to ferret in record shops, op shops and the like. In fact i recently returned from Australia with over 300 records, some will end up on our "wall of fame" in the bar along with all the posters/memorabilia etc. It used to be 'what's in the groove that counts but we are now in the 21st century. To summarize....It's the sound, not where it comes from that's important. Yes i know i am going to 'get it in the neck" for this reply, but sorry guy's "I do have an opinion" and it is mine only.  Oh and our soul bar is full every night, and no-one is under 45.   T Bone.

Very interesting and honest post - Some peoples' reaction to all this could well be scorn, and I except and understand that because we're talking of such a massive thing to some people changing, but I think sometimes people can get so wrapped up in it (Also the one- upmanship / jealousy bit that you touched upon), they can miss the point - The enjoyment to be had from these wonderful sounds.

Vinyl will always be important to us lot, but maybe not for the future younguns - If change does happen let's hope it can be excepted over putting them off with our barriers :wink:

Cheers,

Len :thumbsup: 

Edited by LEN

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Posted

I believe there is a place for both. The physical side of records is wonderful and defines something very special. It keeps those releases in mind that were originally available as 45's and a gamble taken they would be hits and were not....the very essence of what happened in the mid 1960's. BUT...so much material was still recorded in the 60's and never saw the light of day until now, thanks to individuals on a crusade to discover more great music and keep it alive anyway possible. For me, a massive dance floor and a chance to hear some of those tracks never on vinyl would be a treat. There is a new generation coming along who in time, will fall in love with the music and then the romance of the 45......in the meantime, I think the odd event which exploits the music, rather than the format could work, even for me. I love a vinyl affair though.

Ask yourself this: Do you have a plastic Christmas tree or a real one? Do you microwave your food sometimes or always use a pressure cooker? And my old chestnut, would you buy a screw top bottle of wine or one that is corked? And finally..is your cheddar cheese from Somerset or do you buy New Zealand cheddar ha ha? I rest my case....

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Posted

I like cheesy D.Js Carl :D

If it did happen, I think some may see this change as ‘anyone can D.J if they can just download tunes’……Nowadays you can buy records (and become a ‘D.J’) at the click of a button, so not much difference if you think about it (Except for that monetary ‘emotional connection') :wink:

Len :thumbsup:

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Posted

Indeed Len. A DJ is the portal between a good dance, going to the bar or the loo and educating me about the music. If it wasn't for them back in 73, for me, I would never have heard of the records I subsequently went out and bought and my next obsession of becoming a song writer. There was never a format issue back then, it was just 45's at the clubs. It worked and still does...but restricts things slightly these days as those gems that eluded us will never get the light of day on the dance floor, which I think they should. Except those UK labels pressing up old songs onto 45's of course. But, I respect the old school enough to recognise their passion. I believe one day the moniker of Northern Soul may not be so appropriate for songs played off CD or digitally as I guess in 1974 Northern Soul was about the music and now, it's about the music and format. With some of my releases I 'tag' on Youtube, Soundcloud as soul, Northern, beach, philly, salsoul etc, but they are not those genres. I believe song writers and producers cannot effectively pigeon hole what they create...that is left to the fans, dancers, DJ's etc. On saying that, I tend to go east to Detroit and Philly, my passions, so obviously my musical phrasing would be reminiscent of Motown maybe or have a Philly style groove. 'Modern' comes to mind, but that is not my prerogative.

The skill of a dj to me, is to handle the dance floor and read it like a book, introducing songs I maybe have never heard before and teasing me to stay on the floor dancing because he or she knows something about the record that I do not and it ticks the boxes. The biggest compliment I guess for a dj is somebody walking up and enquiring what the record is, or the applause before or after the tracks has finished that gives credibility to the song and set. The evolution of all this is fascinating and as we get older, a realisation that many of the artists, musicians, producers are no longer with us, which in turn affects the song writing, the live performances and feel of the movement. Look at Prestatyn this year, probably the only time The Volcanos will perform in the UK (?), and accompanied by Philly legend Bobby Eli. It's a contentious subject for sure, but change happens whether we like it or not. Berry Gordy came along and changed things. Philly came along and changed things......

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Posted

Personally i would not go out of my way for a "download nighter / soul night ". (because i have had and still enjoy the original vinyl scene).

 

The youth will do what they want to do !

I guess there are not enough original vinyl tunes available or affordable to the youth today who may be on a mimimum wage.

Unless the young individuals come across a box of vinyl tunes cheaply or inherits a collection , it will be a long time before they will be Djing out with vinyl.

 

Based on this i think the download era is here to stay and Download events will occur  and may become the norm in years to come.   

One thing we can  continue to do is encourage the youth in our present scene where we can and help them if they ask us to.

There is a lot of good young talent out there ,  Djing too.

Perhaps the older crowd will be out-numbered and the young majority will rule anyway.(move over Grandpa !)

 

KTF Frank

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOUR COLLECTION WHEN YOUR TIME IS UP ?  would be a good topic...

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Posted

I've lost the plot with northern too many #dippers # and DJs that are winging it. It's dying just accept the fact!

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For what it's worth we had a Friday night middle of last year, no plans nothing on locally and on a whim decided to go to a night about twenty minutes away that we had always shied away from due to lack of info on Dj's and it being advertised as a Soul/Motown/Northern  night. First impressions were not good the door was manned by a couple who you could not believe would be within a million miles of a Northern night, room was ok and nicely set up, sounds from the speakers was fine and it being early there was  maybe half a dozen at most in there.  Stood at the bar we were approached by a very friendly guy who introduced himself as the Dj, he explained what would be played during the night, said he loved Northern but he had to play general soul stuff, Barry White, Luther Johnny Bristol etc to keep the regulars happy but his true love was Northern and if we had any requests to just ask.

      He seemed in no rush to return to the stage and when the record ( I use the term loosely) changed I thought he had perfected remote cuing but no it was laptop, we found a table and had a discussion as to whether we should stay or go but as we were there we decided to give it a chance. To say it was not your normal Northern night laptop aside would be an understatement, disco lights, glitter ball and worst of all at one stage Lou went missing in action on the dancefloor as the smoke machine kicked in ,I half expected the words Tonight Matthew I'm going to be Mary Wells to come over the speakers. There wasn't many people in but those that were were having a great time, and there appeared to be several tunes that he played every month as everyone got up and danced. I found it very odd seeing a group of people who with the exception of one couple I had never seen at any other Northern  night obviously loving the music, singing along to the records and began to wonder if you are enjoying it so much surely you would want to try another night somewhere else or did they think this was the norm listening to everything from a laptop.   

Next funny moment came as the room obviously suffered from lack of air conditioning there were two enormous fans on the stage that would not have looked out of place in a wind tunnel, an old couple and I still feel guilty about being amused by them they must have been in their late sixties and she was wearing a dress far too short for her years and he looked like a few beef dinners would work wonders were dancing close to the stage where lay a bottle of talc and yes she did, she proceeded to talc the floor in front of one of the fans which combined with the turning on of the smoke machine  created a cloud of biblical proportions.

      So the night was jollying along, one of the regulars came and chatted to us and he apparently had a long history on the scene stretching back to Wigan and seemed to have no problem with the laptop arrangement, as the dj had told us he would play anything Lou asked for Gene Toones and oddly returning to the table she said he hadn't got it to which I replied technically he hasn't got anything but everything is within his reach and lo and behold from not having the Gene Toones he must have nipped out to Lidl and bought one as over the speakers it came.

  Low point of the night and just when I was thinking well fair play to the lad he obviously loves Northern and is doing what he thinks is right and he has a regular crowd who have a good night once a month he goes and plays Third Finger Left Hand, nothing wrong with that  other than if you use Motown in your advertising literature  why play a crap version by the Pearls .

       So my overall view on it all, it didn't sit well in a club listening to Northern from a laptop, different kettle of fish if you stumble across it in a pub somewhere or a bar abroad in my view , I did actually enjoy the night for all I've written, the people were friendly and clearly loving the music, it was nice to hear some of the general pop soul from my youth that you never hear which brought back some happy memories, we have not been back as I would hazard a guess and say that at least 80% of the tunes he played would be repeated. I never asked and should have done I suppose did he actually own any records, whether that would have changed my views I don't know.

  If the future in some form or another is going to incorporate the use of laptops be it for the younger generation or the playing of one off's unreleased stuff etc I don't see a change in the quality of nights offered, the music choice would still be down to the person playing the music, I have seen some of the so called big name dj's play what to me were quite ordinary predictable  sets only to be blown away by Joe soap doing a mate a favour or a resident little known name doing a first spot, there's more to being a dj than a few big ticket records and 10'000 tunes on a laptop aint going to make a great dj if you have no imagination.

    If listening to Northern on laptops is the way young people get into the music and they  grow to love it and keep it alive so be it, I think we maybe do them a disservice assuming they will not progress to wanting to own the actual records and for those holding large expensive collections surely it is in their interest to promote and encourage wherever possible that love for Northern.

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1 hour ago, Twoshoes said:

For what it's worth we had a Friday night middle of last year, no plans nothing on locally and on a whim decided to go to a night about twenty minutes away that we had always shied away from due to lack of info on Dj's and it being advertised as a Soul/Motown/Northern  night. First impressions were not good the door was manned by a couple who you could not believe would be within a million miles of a Northern night, room was ok and nicely set up, sounds from the speakers was fine and it being early there was  maybe half a dozen at most in there.  Stood at the bar we were approached by a very friendly guy who introduced himself as the Dj, he explained what would be played during the night, said he loved Northern but he had to play general soul stuff, Barry White, Luther Johnny Bristol etc to keep the regulars happy but his true love was Northern and if we had any requests to just ask.

      He seemed in no rush to return to the stage and when the record ( I use the term loosely) changed I thought he had perfected remote cuing but no it was laptop, we found a table and had a discussion as to whether we should stay or go but as we were there we decided to give it a chance. To say it was not your normal Northern night laptop aside would be an understatement, disco lights, glitter ball and worst of all at one stage Lou went missing in action on the dancefloor as the smoke machine kicked in ,I half expected the words Tonight Matthew I'm going to be Mary Wells to come over the speakers. There wasn't many people in but those that were were having a great time, and there appeared to be several tunes that he played every month as everyone got up and danced. I found it very odd seeing a group of people who with the exception of one couple I had never seen at any other Northern  night obviously loving the music, singing along to the records and began to wonder if you are enjoying it so much surely you would want to try another night somewhere else or did they think this was the norm listening to everything from a laptop.   

Next funny moment came as the room obviously suffered from lack of air conditioning there were two enormous fans on the stage that would not have looked out of place in a wind tunnel, an old couple and I still feel guilty about being amused by them they must have been in their late sixties and she was wearing a dress far too short for her years and he looked like a few beef dinners would work wonders were dancing close to the stage where lay a bottle of talc and yes she did, she proceeded to talc the floor in front of one of the fans which combined with the turning on of the smoke machine  created a cloud of biblical proportions.

      So the night was jollying along, one of the regulars came and chatted to us and he apparently had a long history on the scene stretching back to Wigan and seemed to have no problem with the laptop arrangement, as the dj had told us he would play anything Lou asked for Gene Toones and oddly returning to the table she said he hadn't got it to which I replied technically he hasn't got anything but everything is within his reach and lo and behold from not having the Gene Toones he must have nipped out to Lidl and bought one as over the speakers it came.

  Low point of the night and just when I was thinking well fair play to the lad he obviously loves Northern and is doing what he thinks is right and he has a regular crowd who have a good night once a month he goes and plays Third Finger Left Hand, nothing wrong with that  other than if you use Motown in your advertising literature  why play a crap version by the Pearls .

       So my overall view on it all, it didn't sit well in a club listening to Northern from a laptop, different kettle of fish if you stumble across it in a pub somewhere or a bar abroad in my view , I did actually enjoy the night for all I've written, the people were friendly and clearly loving the music, it was nice to hear some of the general pop soul from my youth that you never hear which brought back some happy memories, we have not been back as I would hazard a guess and say that at least 80% of the tunes he played would be repeated. I never asked and should have done I suppose did he actually own any records, whether that would have changed my views I don't know.

  If the future in some form or another is going to incorporate the use of laptops be it for the younger generation or the playing of one off's unreleased stuff etc I don't see a change in the quality of nights offered, the music choice would still be down to the person playing the music, I have seen some of the so called big name dj's play what to me were quite ordinary predictable  sets only to be blown away by Joe soap doing a mate a favour or a resident little known name doing a first spot, there's more to being a dj than a few big ticket records and 10'000 tunes on a laptop aint going to make a great dj if you have no imagination.

    If listening to Northern on laptops is the way young people get into the music and they  grow to love it and keep it alive so be it, I think we maybe do them a disservice assuming they will not progress to wanting to own the actual records and for those holding large expensive collections surely it is in their interest to promote and encourage wherever possible that love for Northern.

Good post, points well made.

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if your not active on the UK scene your opinion is not worth anything.

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On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 14:55, suinoz said:

Hey Len, This topic was always gonna come up, it was just a matter of time. Glad it was you and not me that started it, well done mate. No matter what opinions are put forward there will always be a few that will disagree as with any kind of topic, questionnaire. SO i will try to put my opinion in without 'HOPEFULLY" putting my foot in it and causing a riot online. As many on here well know i had a great collection of original records that i collected over many years, and had the pleasure of deejaying at many venues in the U.K. Had many pleasant times hunting for the elusive tunes in attics, op shops etc. and managed to "find" the Nolan Chance on Bunky which today there are still only one or possibly two known copies (but that is for another topic which has been discussed on here). I decided to sell my whole collection four years ago and it coincided with a move from Australia to Kefalonia in the Greek islands. Many reasons made me sell up. I personally got fed up with the "chin strokers" worrying whether or not OVO was being played and owning many of the records i had caused some jealousy among people i knew and there was always the feeling of being back stabbed just because i had those sounds. One day, and it was after doing the 'first spot' at an allnighter where i played every top record i had including Ree Flores, Al Willams, Calvin Grayson, Pat Lewis, Betty Wilson to name a few, and a guy came up on stage and said "what you playing all them for, what about the other deeejays that are coming on later? That really was the straw that broke the camels back for me and i decided i "was over it all". The rest is history and there are many people on here who benefited from buying a lot of my stuff. Anyway to get back on topic, what i did before i sold them was buy a turntable that connected to my laptop and i played every single record, A and B side, and they were stored on a hard drive for prosperity. So they were downloaded from my ORIGINAL VINYL right?? When i moved here to Kefalonia we started a Soul night three nights a week and yes i play everything from my hard drive through a Numark double deck tune selector which shows the tune qued up on my laptop, then via a mixer, amp and through the speakers. There would be no room to take 1000's of records anyway. We have no problems with the sound quality. Most of the crap sound systems  being used now are so old and well used that no wonder the music sounds like it's coming through bean tins. The point here is we have many "original soulies" visit the club throughout the year, some went to Wigan, Blackpool etc and are still active on "the scene" now, and no-one worries "where the sound comes from" they are there to dance, socialize and have a good time. What i am saying is the tunes i have are from my records, some 5000 of them and the range of tunes is there to cater for anyone that comes through the doors. I "moved on" while there was still a demand, and the money i got from the records i owned went to give me and Sue a better life, and the opportunity to travel and do basically what we want. In my opinion most of the young ones coming through now will NEVER have the money to buy all the expensive originals that are out there unless they have a fantastic job. So just where will the records end up. Probably thrown into the graves of the owners. This is just my opinion, and i still love to ferret in record shops, op shops and the like. In fact i recently returned from Australia with over 300 records, some will end up on our "wall of fame" in the bar along with all the posters/memorabilia etc. It used to be 'what's in the groove that counts but we are now in the 21st century. To summarize....It's the sound, not where it comes from that's important. Yes i know i am going to 'get it in the neck" for this reply, but sorry guy's "I do have an opinion" and it is mine only.  Oh and our soul bar is full every night, and no-one is under 45.   T Bone.

 

1 hour ago, TOAD said:

if your not active on the UK scene your opinion is not worth anything.

I thought Suinoz opinion was very informative,  but now I know to disregard every word they said.  

Thank you Toad for pointing me in the right direction.

:sleep3:

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oh a topic lets bore everyone about me me and once upon a time I paid over the odds for an expensive yes not that rare record now that is yawn yawn yawn

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7 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

For what it's worth we had a Friday night middle of last year, no plans nothing on locally and on a whim decided to go to a night about twenty minutes away that we had always shied away from due to lack of info on Dj's and it being advertised as a Soul/Motown/Northern  night. First impressions were not good the door was manned by a couple  .........

    If listening to Northern on laptops is the way young people get into the music and they  grow to love it and keep it alive so be it, I think we maybe do them a disservice assuming they will not progress to wanting to own the actual records and for those holding large expensive collections surely it is in their interest to promote and encourage wherever possible that love for Northern.

How many young people were there though? I'm extremely sceptical about this "new generation of young uns who will carry the scene on" that people keep talking about.

 

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2 minutes ago, Steve L said:

How many young people were there though? I'm extremely sceptical about this "new generation of young uns who will carry the scene on" that people keep talking about.

 

None as it happens and I tend to agree with you regarding the actual numbers of young uns  on the scene or maybe it's just the nights I attend, I see the same dozen or so quite regularly but like the threatened influx of handbaggers , tourists call them what will  you each time Northern hits the telly or as with the film  the invasion  in my experience never happens. I would like to think I'm wrong and there is somewhere a growing number who will carry the torch for the future.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

None as it happens and I tend to agree with you regarding the actual numbers of young uns  on the scene or maybe it's just the nights I attend, I see the same dozen or so quite regularly but like the threatened influx of handbaggers , tourists call them what will  you each time Northern hits the telly or as with the film  the invasion  in my experience never happens. I would like to think I'm wrong and there is somewhere a growing number who will carry the torch for the future.

Think you have a point there, however I wouldn't see it so literally as that. In fairness not every younger person even if they are interested in the music would feel comfortable spending an evening in a room full of on average 50+ year old people. I know I wouldn't have done when I was say 18. I think the best we can do as arguably 'collective current custodians' of the music is to make sure we do our best to pass it on in a respectful way and one that they can relate to. That's one of the reasons I would encourage more Northern Soul 'legal' downloads to be available and not give any of them a hard time over it. I have three Sons 16, 20 & 27 still living at home. They all like their music, my eldest loves Northern and probably knows more about Motown than i do particularly the rarer unissued stuff. Despite there being literally thousands of records kicking around the house, you can probably guess their first port of call for music, sure they respect records and sometimes my eldest will play the odd one at home, but we are kidding ourselves if we think that they will ever 'get' record collecting as we do or did. So let's put the music where they are likely to look and you never know they might find it! and then it will be their idea and cool again 'daddy o'...right on! :)

btw great thread Len and some very good posts from many on here, it's good to see a potentially contentious issue being debated well! :thumbsup:

Edited by Jem Britttin

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On 1/28/2016 at 11:13, Drewtg said:

I have recently returned to dj'ing after about forty years. I live abroad and have sold most of my collection. When I dj I have a memory stick with about 2,000 tracks on it. I don't have a playlist but maybe a few sounds that I want to play. When I used to dj I would have about 200 sounds to pick from but now, with such a vast repertoir, it's a lot easier to follow the dancefloor and keep it busy. I try to stick to sounds that I have owned but.........

The (mainly) old crowd that I play for make requests (in fact I print request sheets and scatter them round the club) and I have never been one to refuse a request unless it's really inappropriate - say Dock of the Bay or something. I was asked for Stanky Get Funky, which is a sound which I would never have bought, and get requests for rarer stuff which I would never have been able to buy. I play them.

I was in England a few years ago and went to an ovo soul night, there was some good music played but the dancefloor was totally ignored, I found this a massive culture shock. Any definition of Northern Soul must include the word 'dance'. The newer, younger people want to hear music they can dance to and it's a bit silly to try to tell them they can't because I don't own a particular piece of vinyl - it means nothing to them unfortunately.

Back in the day we all went to nighters where pressings, bootlegs and EMIdisks were played, didn't we? During the week we all listened to ilegal tapes made from live venues didn't we? Would we have stopped going to nighters if the sounds were more readily available? I doubt it.

I have only one queasy feeling about playing rips and downloads and that is PRS, which let's face it has always been a bit of a grey area.

A few that were requested at my last gig:

George Blackwell~Can't Lose My Head

Greater Experience~Don't Forget to Remember

Ty Karim~You Just Don't Know

Bill Bush - I'm Waiting

 

Reference 'Bill Bush' I have heard a recent bootleg of this that sounds absolutely awful! far to much bass which effectively muffles it! however the legal download available on i tunes for 0.79p sounds great...check it out

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Ok I have only really skipped through this thread TBH, but I understand why we have to have a debate about it.

Here's my take:

There are too many promoters/promotions already without adding download nights.

There are too many DJ's already without adding Laptop Jocks.

There isnt one main regular venue a la Wheel/Torch/Casino that is a must attend, where the new is played alongside the old & we all congregate & get excited about attending, we're all too spread out over many genres & venues, without adding to that further.

So do we really need to add to the already overloaded soul calendar with download nights ?. Especially as only tracks that are 'available' could be played, which kinda defeats the object for me. We are an elitist scene, that is what attracts people to it, along with the music of course, people want to feel special, like they are doing something that is different & that they are part of an elite clique, by playing downloads we're just advancing the nostalgia side of the scene, it wont make it better, it will just dilute it further.

Download nights would only ever appeal to people who probably wouldnt take things any further than that particular event & it would be a night on the lash, with potentially leg over & chips with Tracy at the end, if she'd downed enough Babycham. It would serve no purpose in advancing or broadening the appeal of NS as a whole & TBH who needs even more DJ's, albeit playing from a laptop.

Pandoras box is open, downloads are out there, they cant be put back in. My thoughts are that many of the best tracks are either illegal or extremely poor quality. I think if some enterprising person, put together a very proffessionally made & managed web sight, that anyone with a passing interest would find when Googling NS, that made available for sale, legal, good quality downloads of classic Northern/Modern Soul records for a nominal fee, & maybe a truthful, historically accurate history of the scene, venues & DJ's it would be invaluable to those people curious enough to want to investigate & hopefully take things a little further by attending a traditional event after listening to the 'sounds' & knowing something about it all. Thats how we should be utilising technology, & also to stop the bootleggers & make legal good quality downloads available to those that want them for thier personal use.

And finally...........there are lots of younger people finding NS, attending, dancing, collecting etc, etc, just like we did....ask them if they would like to attend a 'download' night, I know what the answer would be.....I think this last point, says it all really, those that take it seriously dont want the format to change, unless of course its a previously unreleased track, only available via download !.

Best Russ

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10 hours ago, Jem Britttin said:

.. So let's put the music where they are likely to look and you never know they might find it! and then it will be their idea and cool again 'daddy o'...right on! 

Good point, none of my children have shown the slightest interest in Northern despite exposure since birth except for enquiring when I dispose of records often giving them away "is that our inheritance going down the pan", little do they know anything of any value and there was never much went long ago.  You can't impose your own taste on others so yes let them find it for themselves, some good points in your post.

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Collectors and folks who place value on ovo will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, but age will naturally reduce those of us that love the feel, authenticity and history that we carry in our veins when stroking our vinyl, so will just have to accept change is inevitable and unstoppable. BUT for the moment when that treasure falls through the door from the postie it still feels fecking great. Comparable to sex ? Go on admit it you know it is. Or am I too bleeding old now to enjoy the other so much anymore ! 

Casual soul fans and many who have a passion for oldies and dancing to em (and let's not forget oldies are still the foundation of the scene and are still in all of our blood) will attend events far and wide without really giving a flying fook about the medium, ovo, cd, MP3, pressing etc. Cause it's what's in the groove that counts AND the social camaraderie they enjoy for the vast majority. It's so easy to criticise something you don't understand, and it doesn't mean you're right, so let em enjoy themselves, life's too short.

Young people will move with the times. My kids think I'm crazy spending money on ancient vinyl,  and they'd  potentially have me sectioned if they could for the amount of money I've " invested" ha ha in my collection which takes pride of place in its own room. That in itself is something to consider, kids can't afford deposits for houses let alone create the space for a stack of vinyl at comparibly crazy prices. But a tablet or phone and a set of headphones or blue tooth speaker and a link to a cloud gives them access the tens of thousands of tunes and the means to enjoy em!  Anyone remember when mobile phones started to become popular but the cost of the calls was extortionate? I do and I swore I'd never have one. Guess what, I know pay for four subscriptions a month and rarely use the landline. Phone boxes are almost obsolete and maybe one day vinyl will become so too, except for a small group of obsessives like the antique dealers of today, but they invest in the asthetic value not the practical. It'll be a sad day but it will happen.

Don't you want your great great grandkids to still be able to shake their tail to the sound of black America? Of course you bloody do and so do I. 

Gav

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On 1/26/2016 at 12:43, RICK SCOTT said:

Have you ever watched one of these people DJ?????????

They go up to the equipment (Turn table, mixer etc.) 15 or 20 mins before the previous DJ has finished their set) Puts his playlist up on the lap top,

then stands there and pushes a button That's It!! oh and most don't know what a microphone is, probably think someone has left their mums Dildo on the

stage for a laugh..............Play It, Say It!

 

 

I have watched DJ's use a laptop, it doesn't do it for me but each to their own. I'm also mindful of Brian Rae, his health means he physically can't always cart a big box of heavy records round and plays from CD but he's still a bloody good DJ (and loved/appreciated by audiences).   

I prefer DJ's who keep the chat to a minimum, most of the audience know the tunes anyway, a few DJ's may create the question 'who was that' but most of the audience just shazam it if they don't know a tune to get the artist and track details.

:hatsoff2:

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12 hours ago, Russ Vickers said:

Ok I have only really skipped through this thread TBH, but I understand why we have to have a debate about it.

 

And finally...........there are lots of younger people finding NS, attending, dancing, collecting etc, etc, just like we did....ask them if they would like to attend a 'download' night, I know what the answer would be.....I think this last point, says it all really, those that take it seriously dont want the format to change, unless of course its a previously unreleased track, only available via download !.

Best Russ

Russ some interesting points but would have to take issue with the amount of young people these days 'doing it our way' For me i am thinking 10 - 20 years ahead maybe. Not respecting or giving any credence to the download issue is simply like trying to stop the tide coming in. I think we should at least address it and help pass on the music and ethos that suits a future generation.

I agree little point in trying to start a download only event now it wouldn't matter! However i would add that a lot Nights held up and down the country feature mainly well known classics, played on original and bootleg format. I think this is actually helping to support a bootleg industry, just look on ebay. Northern Soul classics on original vinyl are also going through the roof as DJs are stumbling over their self or staying up all night to buy, just to play out at similar local events. Most of these songs are available on legal downloads through i tunes and similar, they are good quality and cost around 80 pence with a percentage of that technically going to artists through publishing companies. I dare bet that many that attend these nights really are just interested in hearing familiar oldies which is cool, so this would be a good opportunity to introduce legal downloads. The trade off being: it might regulate bootleggers and keep the price of classic originals sensible. Is there really anything to prove or a good reason that classics which have been heard a thousand times before be played on any form of vinyl today at these style of events? I do think these nights will also come to a natural end as our generation get older.

Reference trying to preserve a scene where the music is more 'cutting edge' if you like. Of course this will always be lead by vinyl and there should and always be a strong element of it. However there is also a lot of this stuff available on legal download as well. I wouldn't see a scene like this involving one format over the other. It would be very simple to cater for playing of both formats with both complimenting each other, in fact you could argue it might make people try harder to find previously unheard stuff on vinyl. But by catering for both it doesn't then put of younger people who are finding the music via other means and among these I am sure there would be some very imaginative DJs for the future who will do it their way!

atb Jem :thumbsup:

Edited by Jem Britttin

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Drifting slightly off topic and prompted by Mellorful's mention of Brian Rae please indulge me here,  I know this would never happen but lets just say it did , could it ever be a case of not what but who, say a Nighter was advertised with a roster Dj's including say Butch, Ginger Taylor, Ted Massey ,Richard Searling , Nige Brown etc and at the bottom of the flyer it said All on Laptop, would the reputation of the Dj's sway people into attending whatever the format, just a thought and again I know it would never happen or at least I hope it wouldn't.

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I have an idea - when these new 3D printers that can do anything become available and affordable, print the digital downloads to a 7" plastic disc and hey presto - the old and new meet in the middle. Old school traditional events can continue with the respect and romance expected of them...and newer events a refreshing angle playing a physical item, never released in 1965, but available to finally be heard on the dance floor. If the record companies allowed a ' one off print' of a purchased digital file, it would be legal too. It's a win win!

Edited by Carl Dixon

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3 minutes ago, Carl Dixon said:

I have an idea - when these new 3D printers that can do anything become available and affordable, print the digital downloads to a 7" plastic disc and hey presto - the old and new meet in the middle. Old school traditional events can continue with the respect and romance expected of them...and newer events a refreshing angle playing a physical item, never released in 1965, but available to finally be heard on the dance floor. If the record companies allowed a ' one off print' of a purchased digital file, it would be legal too. It's a win win!

Or even an hologram of the original label projected down onto a 7" label-less disc, so it appears you're playing the original.  

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Indeed. You could have different coloured plastics signifying different labels/genres for example. Blue for a 1960's never released on vinyl before Motown track only available as a digital purchase. Or olive green for a 60's Philly cut, or pea green for a 70's philly cut. From a distance you could then identify what genre of music was being played. Your hologram idea could be the digital 'cover up' of the future!  Remember, before vinyl, there was shelac, wax etc...as long as a needle scrapes the music out, I would be happy with that compromise. 

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15 minutes ago, TattooDave said:

Or even an hologram of the original label projected down onto a 7" label-less disc, so it appears you're playing the original.  

Traktor...

 

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36 minutes ago, Carl Dixon said:

I have an idea - when these new 3D printers that can do anything become available and affordable, print the digital downloads to a 7" plastic disc and hey presto - the old and new meet in the middle. Old school traditional events can continue with the respect and romance expected of them...and newer events a refreshing angle playing a physical item, never released in 1965, but available to finally be heard on the dance floor. If the record companies allowed a ' one off print' of a purchased digital file, it would be legal too. It's a win win!

 

19 minutes ago, Carl Dixon said:

Indeed. You could have different coloured plastics signifying different labels/genres for example. Blue for a 1960's never released on vinyl before Motown track only available as a digital purchase. Or olive green for a 60's Philly cut, or pea green for a 70's philly cut. From a distance you could then identify what genre of music was being played. Your hologram idea could be the digital 'cover up' of the future!  Remember, before vinyl, there was shelac, wax etc...as long as a needle scrapes the music out, I would be happy with that compromise. 

You're got a vivid imagination Carl...........:huh:

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Posted

I know Steve. I must admit I do see out the box sometimes. And I really do struggle with change myself at this age, but like I said earlier, if it wasn't for the changes in music styles from the 60's to 70's we would never have heard of TSOP etc. 

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Russ Vickers said:

Traktor...

 

I didn't realise you were so up in technology Russ, has anyone made the holodeck "Wigan Casino" yet?  If not, please someone make it happen.:g:

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Joking apart, Traktor could be a compromise for some, especially with international gigs, never liked flying with me rekkids....

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Posted (edited)
On 30/01/2016 at 14:27, TOAD said:

if your not active on the UK scene your opinion is not worth anything.

How do we know you are active? what constitutes being active? I run every other day, thats active...

Edited by Mal C

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