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Chris Turnbull

Crossover Top 100

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13 hours ago, Rich B said:

For my part, I don't think it's the date a song is recorded or released that makes it 'crossover' but you just know it when you hear it....

Well there aren't many crossover records from 1964 are there?

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23 hours ago, sjclement said:

Picking some comments out "jerky funky beat", "67-73" then perhaps the 1st crossover record was the Carstairs It really hurts me girl?

Somewhere near how I see it John, to me its a "out of the 60,s but not quite into the 70,s" sound, regardless of tempo, even Sweet Soul collectors are now looking for "that sound" usually a low budget kind of unpolished sound, agree that a lot of examples given are out and out 70,s records with lavish production, Lee "Shot" Williams-It ain't me-UA could fill the criteria

Kev

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59 minutes ago, Steve L said:

Well there aren't many crossover records from 1964 are there?

 

56 minutes ago, Steve L said:

This has turned into another pointless discussion over what a simple term means instead of what the original poster intended........:huh:

wouldn't agree with any of that at all  Steve

to me so far its been an interesting discussion, as always on here there's been a wide variety of takes posted by many and it all has made interesting and entertaining reading... to me at least :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Edited by mike

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25 minutes ago, kev cane said:

Somewhere near how I see it John, to me its a "out of the 60,s but not quite into the 70,s" sound, regardless of tempo, even Sweet Soul collectors are now looking for "that sound" usually a low budget kind of unpolished sound, agree that a lot of examples given are out and out 70,s records with lavish production, Lee "Shot" Williams-It ain't me-UA could fill the criteria

Kev

Not wishing to be perdantic but I would say the earlier PM release of "It Ain't Me No More" fits the crossover critera perfectly.

Dave

Edited by Louise

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29 minutes ago, mike said:

 

wouldn't agree with any of that at all  Steve

to me so far its been an interesting discussion, as always on here there's been a wide variety of takes posted by many and it all has made interesting and entertaining reading... to me at least :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Well the original point was could you compile a top 100 chart of crossover tunes, an interesting topic and that has been discussed to an extent. What a crossover record actually is has been gone over many times and people have their own interpretations of it so I can't see the point really. Maybe I just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning...........

Mr grumpy

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I never find anything 'pointless' on this site, the mention of tracks that I don't know,(or have forgotten) sends me scurrying off for the soundfile and heyho there's another addition to the wants list.:yes:

anyway you can pick any one out of these three T.S.U. TORNADOS releases - I still love you,Got to get through to you or What good am I.

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36 minutes ago, Louise said:

Not wishing to be perdantic but I would say the earlier PM release of "It Ain't Me No More" fits the crossover critera perfectly.

Dave

Interesting record, as it is one of those record that an artists recorded on several occasions updating to the latest sound but never losing the essence of what it is and all version could be called 'Crossover' right through to his 1980's version on MT. So in effect providing the 'Blueprint' for the definition of crossover.

PM Records PM 103, 1972

United Artists  50926 , 1972

Tchula 808, 1982

MT Records MT 003, 1982 (added horns version)

 

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24 minutes ago, sjclement said:

anyway you can pick any one out of these three T.S.U. TORNADOS releases - I still love you,Got to get through to you or What good am I.

Had forgotten 'What good am I' in particular, would deffo make a top 100 IMO in terms of most played, most loved, etc

In fact would also include the brilliant 'Please heart, don't break' (Rampart Street)

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24 minutes ago, Dave Thorley said:

Interesting record, as it is one of those record that an artists recorded on several occasions updating to the latest sound but never losing the essence of what it is and all version could be called 'Crossover' right through to his 1980's version on MT. So in effect providing the 'Blueprint' for the definition of crossover.

PM Records PM 103, 1972

United Artists  50926 , 1972

Tchula 808, 1982

MT Records MT 003, 1982 (added horns version)

 

Ive got all 4 versions and I must admit prefer the later two versions. Always made good records did LSW.

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10 hours ago, Sean Hampsey said:

Fascinating thread.

There are thousands of records that fit into the genre and which were recorded during the 'crossover of decades' period of 4-5 years.

Certainly though there's a Top 100 (or more) of continuously trotted out same old, same olds that seem to have become deep rooted these days in Northern Soul culture.

But the actual output is vast, possibly infinite. Some folk are still digging and seeking out these hidden gems. Others are satisfied to stick to the well worn, tired and proven.

A familiar tale.

Sean

 

 

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ What Sean says.

 

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I would definitely  put these two in your 100 /500 

The Charmels   As long As I've  got you  .. 

Johnny Gillam   Find yourself another 

 

Boff 

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7 hours ago, Steve L said:

Well there aren't many crossover records from 1964 are there?

No idea Steve - I don't think it's a particularly helpful comment either, as that clearly wasn't what I meant (well it was clear to me) my intention was to highlight that being nit picky about dates usually isn't helpful.

Have a nice easter!

 

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On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 22:51, Peter99 said:

How about Quiet Elegance - or is this just Southern Soul? Whatever label you want to stick on it it's a fantastic soul record. 

 

 

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On 3/25/2016 at 12:38, Ivor Jones said:

Also, just remembered…..for me, one of the ultimate Crossover style tunes to add to the master list: 

Gloria Shannon "Tears Are Gifts From Heaven"

Wonder who this really is ? So brilliant its off the scale…... 

Never heard this before, but it may be the best new to me sound of the last 10 years.

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17 minutes ago, Soulman58 said:

Never heard this before, but it may be the best new to me sound of the last 10 years.

Picked this up when it came out a couple of years back.... superb tune.

 

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On 25/03/2016 at 12:38, Ivor Jones said:

Also, just remembered…..for me, one of the ultimate Crossover style tunes to add to the master list: 

Gloria Shannon "Tears Are Gifts From Heaven"

Wonder who this really is ? So brilliant its off the scale…... 

Stunning record Ivor. I only picked up on this recently and managed to get one. 

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3 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Stunning record Ivor. I only picked up on this recently and managed to get one. 

 

29 minutes ago, Soulman58 said:

Never heard this before, but it may be the best new to me sound of the last 10 years.

Well there you go chaps. Really glad you love it as much as I do…...

2 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

One more from me before I pop out. The mighty Bobby Womack - Tried and Convicted. 

 

Yes……!

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There was 60's soul and 70's soul - they generally sound different  - Crossover was the overlap between the two - not 'on the fours' but not 'Funky'....  probably made by artists/producers still making traditional Soul when all around was changing - Civil rights and all.  Motown was the sound of the 60's ......Philly Int - the 70's ..it was somewhere in between - but Bettye Swann ' Kiss My Love...'? - pure 70's  Philly.  Stevens & Foster?  it was a 1977 release ...  it even has hints of Dr Buzzard .. it was on the cusp of Soul and Disco.....

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In my opinion Crossover is a term used to describe a type of soul music that is different to traditional soul, northern soul and Motown that was played from the 60's to the early to mid 70's.It was introduced onto the soul scene at two major venues these being Blackpool Mecca and Cleethorpes pier /Winter gardens around 1973-1975 I would say a good percentage of Crossover records were a more funky type of sound albeit some were mid tempo , Examples of Crossover records are  Brainstorm:- Loving is really my game.  Frankie Crocker:- Ton of Dynamite. Skullsnaps:- I'm your pimp. Babe Ruth:- Elusive. Black Nasty:- Cut your motor off. The Matta Baby:- Do the pearl. Reggie garner:- Hotline. Everyone must have their own interpretation of what constitutes a crossover record.My views are based on actually attending those clubs back then and experiencing the music and the directions the music has taken over the years.

Regards Fred Ward

Edited by Mr Fred

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1 hour ago, Mr Fred said:

In my opinion Crossover is a term used to describe a type of soul music that is different to traditional soul, northern soul and Motown that was played from the 60's to the early to mid 70's.It was introduced onto the soul scene at two major venues these being Blackpool Mecca and Cleethorpes pier /Winter gardens around 1973-1975 I would say a good percentage of Crossover records were a more funky type of sound albeit some were mid tempo , Examples of Crossover records are  Brainstorm:- Loving is really my game.  Frankie Crocker:- Ton of Dynamite. Skullsnaps:- I'm your pimp. Babe Ruth:- Elusive. Black Nasty:- Cut your motor off. The Matta Baby:- Do the pearl. Reggie garner:- Hotline. Everyone must have their own interpretation of what constitutes a crossover record.My views are based on actually attending those clubs back then and experiencing the music and the directions the music has taken over the years

Regards Fred Ward

Hello Fred. Thanks for that. I'm not having a pop but I personally wouldn't class any of those as Crossover. Not my understanding of it anyway. They're records of their time mostly which, apart from Frankie Crocker [which has defintley stood the test of time and still very popular],wouldn't get a look in nowadays in most venues. More importantly though, in the context of this thread and what its about, in general, the style of them is all wrong to be Crossover in my opinion. Brainstorm is out and out Disco for example.

 This term "Crossover" in UK Soul scene terms, as previously stated by others, was coined by Rod Dearlove in the old "Voices From The Shadows" magazine. Nothing whatsoever to do with the American term about "Crossing Over" into the charts referred to earlier by Ian Dewhirst. It referred to the changing Soul sound and different musical styles between the 1960s and 1970s Era's. Hopefully,to make things easier, someone will be able to copy the article and post it up here,[Mine is up in the darkest recesses of the loft somewhere], just so people who haven't seen it can understand what it was about. You're coming at this from a completely different angle to me. I never attended either the Mecca or Cleethorpes in their heyday but I do know enough about it all to recognise the groundbreaking music policies of the DJ's and venues definitely started the whole thing off. 

This thread was started off  by Chris Turnbull asking about a "Crossover" Top 100 or 500 of the most influential and most loved tracks in that vein. We've just been adding contenders to his great initial list. Like everything else, it depends on where you came into the music which influences your opinion. As I said earlier in the thread, I think the confusion with what constitutes "Crossover" from other stuff comes from the fact that other stuff gets played alongside it. In fact,thinking about it, I can't think of a single event over the years that just plays nothing but Crossover, its always alongside either 60s stuff that works well alongside it or modern soul fom any era. Or, even better, all of it in one room. Its just about the feel and flow of the music at the end of the day. I think you're more likely to hear 60s things like Esther Phillips "Just Say Goodbye", Tammi Terrell "All I Do Is Think About You", Bettye Swann "Make Me Yours" alongside the Crossover stuff than the tracks you mentioned.  I think thats because with most of the Crossover stuff theres a definite raw Soulfullness which sits really comfortably with really Soulfull stuff of a slower tempo. Most of the crowd that are into it like this sort of Soul anyway. Which is probably why a lot of the Crossover tracks weren't given the airtime back in the glory days when everything was really uptempo. 

Anyway, onto the list:

This should be in there Chris…..

All the best, Ivor

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A contender for the top 100 crossover sounds ever would surely be:

The Chimes    "The Beginning Of My Life"  Down To Earth

Although not as sought after as it more illustious stable mate The Kings Of Soul, this little cheapy in value (but high in musical quality) has continued to be a perinnial favourite.

Dave

Edited by Louise

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8 hours ago, Ivor Jones said:

Hello Fred. Thanks for that. I'm not having a pop but I personally wouldn't class any of those as Crossover. Not my understanding of it anyway. They're records of their time mostly which, apart from Frankie Crocker [which has defintley stood the test of time and still very popular],wouldn't get a look in nowadays in most venues. More importantly though, in the context of this thread and what its about, in general, the style of them is all wrong to be Crossover in my opinion. Brainstorm is out and out Disco for example.

 This term "Crossover" in UK Soul scene terms, as previously stated by others, was coined by Rod Dearlove in the old "Voices From The Shadows" magazine. Nothing whatsoever to do with the American term about "Crossing Over" into the charts referred to earlier by Ian Dewhirst. It referred to the changing Soul sound and different musical styles between the 1960s and 1970s Era's. Hopefully,to make things easier, someone will be able to copy the article and post it up here,[Mine is up in the darkest recesses of the loft somewhere], just so people who haven't seen it can understand what it was about. You're coming at this from a completely different angle to me. I never attended either the Mecca or Cleethorpes in their heyday but I do know enough about it all to recognise the groundbreaking music policies of the DJ's and venues definitely started the whole thing off. 

This thread was started off  by Chris Turnbull asking about a "Crossover" Top 100 or 500 of the most influential and most loved tracks in that vein. We've just been adding contenders to his great initial list. Like everything else, it depends on where you came into the music which influences your opinion. As I said earlier in the thread, I think the confusion with what constitutes "Crossover" from other stuff comes from the fact that other stuff gets played alongside it. In fact,thinking about it, I can't think of a single event over the years that just plays nothing but Crossover, its always alongside either 60s stuff that works well alongside it or modern soul fom any era. Or, even better, all of it in one room. Its just about the feel and flow of the music at the end of the day. I think you're more likely to hear 60s things like Esther Phillips "Just Say Goodbye", Tammi Terrell "All I Do Is Think About You", Bettye Swann "Make Me Yours" alongside the Crossover stuff than the tracks you mentioned.  I think thats because with most of the Crossover stuff theres a definite raw Soulfullness which sits really comfortably with really Soulfull stuff of a slower tempo. Most of the crowd that are into it like this sort of Soul anyway. Which is probably why a lot of the Crossover tracks weren't given the airtime back in the glory days when everything was really uptempo. 

Anyway, onto the list:

This should be in there Chris…..

All the best, Ivor

Hi Ivor

Another worthy contender to your list of 60's soul outing that have been featured in crossover sets would have to be:

Robert Parker's "I Caught You In A Lie"    Nola

Dave

Edited by Louise

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Ok what we have in terms of Crossover is a particular "sound", maybe or maybe not from a certain period of time 68-72 say.

Once upon a time there was an underground allnighter scene that played QUALITY Soul music that was danceable, included in this scene were records that would fit, sound wise, if not time wise, into what is now called Crossover;

Sapphires     Gotta Have Your Love

Du-ettes       Every Beat Of My Heart

Formations   At the Top of The Stairs  

and dare I say

Edwin Starr   I Have Faith In You

Later the scene adopted a more uptempo style and sometimes the Soul element was sacrificed and Northern Soul was "born". After a while certain D.J.s decided many soul records were being missed, due to the obsession with all things uptempo, and started playing QUALITY mid-tempo danceable soul, and the scene found it's original roots again.   Simples !

 

Edited by Kegsy

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1 hour ago, Louise said:

Hi Ivor

Another worthy contender to your list of 60's soul outing that have been featured in crossover sets would have to be:

Willie Tee's  "I Caught You In A Lie"    Nola

Dave

Sorry to be a pest but do you mean Robert Parker?

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53 minutes ago, dean jj said:

Sorry to be a pest but do you mean Robert Parker?

Well spotted Dean, that'll teach me to post before my first coffee of the day ! :rofl:

Just to throw a curved ball into the mix, where does the Jimmy Cobb "Nobody Else Can Hear"  that you used to play fit into the equation ?

Dave

Edited by Louise

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On the rare occasion mo & me get asked to play some records out these are always in the box. 

Milton & Winston you lied

Emitt long  call me

Lt &soulful dynamics crazy about you baby

Tripplets that man of mine

Sy Hightower leaving me

Leonard aediar dig you baby 

Black ess 2000 changes in my life 

Just realised I could be here a while, there really are so many great records out there to hunt down this could end up being a life time thing !!!!

 

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3 hours ago, Louise said:

Well spotted Dean, that'll teach me to post before my first coffee of the day ! :rofl:

Just to throw a curved ball into the mix, where does the Jimmy Cobb "Nobody Else Can Hear"  that you used to play fit into the equation ?

Dave

It doesn't: I played as a new release.

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5 hours ago, Louise said:

Hi Ivor

Another worthy contender to your list of 60's soul outing that have been featured in crossover sets would have to be:

Robert Parker's "I Caught You In A Lie"    Nola

Dave

Absolutely young David ! It was records of this style which were championed by the likes of Randy Cozens and Tony Rounce. Both light years ahead of the pack in terms of their musical taste. Randys gone now,bless him R.I.P. but Tonys still in the thick of discovering stuff at Ace. He needs to be out DJing more…..

More in the same vein:

Barbara Lynn "This Is The Thanks I Get"

Barbara Lynn "You're Losing Me"

Barbara Lewis "Thankful For What I Got"

Mary Wells "Dear Lover"

Aretha "I Cant Wait Until I See My Babys Face"

There's loads isn't there….

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The crossover period that people are referring to is always going to be vague, because artists didn't just stop making one kind of music overnight and start making another. Little nuances in recording techniques or instruments become popular and so get adopted by others. Remember that awful syndrum that Anita Ward had in "Ring my Bell". I've no idea who did it first but it got pretty annoying after a while.

In much the same way as Victorian Architecture (1837-1901) merges into Edwardian (1901-1910/14).  In 1901  they didn't just stop one style of house overnight, so you have to use the date produced as the benchmark.

 

Kev

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12 hours ago, Ivor Jones said:

Hello Fred. Thanks for that. I'm not having a pop but I personally wouldn't class any of those as Crossover. Not my understanding of it anyway. They're records of their time mostly which, apart from Frankie Crocker [which has defintley stood the test of time and still very popular],wouldn't get a look in nowadays in most venues. More importantly though, in the context of this thread and what its about, in general, the style of them is all wrong to be Crossover in my opinion. Brainstorm is out and out Disco for example.

 This term "Crossover" in UK Soul scene terms, as previously stated by others, was coined by Rod Dearlove in the old "Voices From The Shadows" magazine. Nothing whatsoever to do with the American term about "Crossing Over" into the charts referred to earlier by Ian Dewhirst. It referred to the changing Soul sound and different musical styles between the 1960s and 1970s Era's. Hopefully,to make things easier, someone will be able to copy the article and post it up here,[Mine is up in the darkest recesses of the loft somewhere], just so people who haven't seen it can understand what it was about. You're coming at this from a completely different angle to me. I never attended either the Mecca or Cleethorpes in their heyday but I do know enough about it all to recognise the groundbreaking music policies of the DJ's and venues definitely started the whole thing off. 

This thread was started off  by Chris Turnbull asking about a "Crossover" Top 100 or 500 of the most influential and most loved tracks in that vein. We've just been adding contenders to his great initial list. Like everything else, it depends on where you came into the music which influences your opinion. As I said earlier in the thread, I think the confusion with what constitutes "Crossover" from other stuff comes from the fact that other stuff gets played alongside it. In fact,thinking about it, I can't think of a single event over the years that just plays nothing but Crossover, its always alongside either 60s stuff that works well alongside it or modern soul fom any era. Or, even better, all of it in one room. Its just about the feel and flow of the music at the end of the day. I think you're more likely to hear 60s things like Esther Phillips "Just Say Goodbye", Tammi Terrell "All I Do Is Think About You", Bettye Swann "Make Me Yours" alongside the Crossover stuff than the tracks you mentioned.  I think thats because with most of the Crossover stuff theres a definite raw Soulfullness which sits really comfortably with really Soulfull stuff of a slower tempo. Most of the crowd that are into it like this sort of Soul anyway. Which is probably why a lot of the Crossover tracks weren't given the airtime back in the glory days when everything was really uptempo. 

Anyway, onto the list:

This should be in there Chris…..

All the best, Ivor

Hi ivor, like i said everyone has their own idea of what crossover is and yours obviously isn't mine and vice versa.With regard to Brainstorm :-Loving is really my game it was played and still is played at Northern Soul venues I DJ at and attend in the north of england even though it is as you say out and out disco.This is a perfect example of how the scene is and how it has evolved.As is Frankie Crocker:-Ton of dynamite played everywhere.Without getting into lengthy discussions on the subject, sorry I'm sticking to what I said originally that is what my idea of what crossover is.I gave examples of Blackpool Mecca and Cleethorpes as where crossover came about,maybe if you had gone to those venues you probably would have a different opinion.Finally I think the one thing we will both agree on is that we both are lovers of the music. Regards Fred.

 

6 hours ago, Louise said:

Hi Ivor

Another worthy contender to your list of 60's soul outing that have been featured in crossover sets would have to be:

Robert Parker's "I Caught You In A Lie"    Nola

Dave

 

Edited by Mr Fred

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How about this one.I'd put this up there with Ty Karim in terms of quality. Not really that well known to the majority at the present I would say. So therefore not a contender for the Top 100 but, given time, I think its quality will become more widely recognised. Bizarrely, a 1979 release date but one of two killer tracks on the LP which are clearly much older than the rest of the material.The other earlier track is "Just Don't Love You" which was released earlier as by The Carbon Copies[rare one on 45]. The Carbon Copies features singer Jewell Bass,not sure whether this track is the same vocalist but whoever it is,she's fantastic ! See what you think if you don't know it…...

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Fred said:

Hi ivor, like i said everyone has their own idea of what crossover is and yours obviously isn't mine and vice versa.With regard to Brainstorm :-Loving is really my game it was played and still is played at Northern Soul venues I DJ at and attend in the north of england even though it is as you say out and out disco.This is a perfect example of how scene is and how it has evolved.As is Frankie Crocker:-Ton of dynamite played everywhere.Without getting into lengthy discussions on the subject, sorry I'm sticking to what I said originally that is what my idea of what crossover is.I gave examples of Blackpool Mecca and Cleethorpes as where crossover came about,maybe if you had gone to those venues you probably would have a different opinion.Finally I think the one thing we will both agree on is that we both are lovers of the music. Regards Fred.

 

 

Yes Fred. Glad you didn't take umbrage to my comments ! It certainly wasn't meant in a funny way. Musical taste is a very personal thing and sometimes its hard to convey in the written word the differences. All I meant was that ,as Steve G pointed out earlier, the differences of what is or isn't Crossover is actually really quite subtle. I have reasonably broad taste in Soul, everything I like up to new release stuff still. If its good its good I reckon. Thing is,the way things are today,depending on where you get your kicks musically, its possible to hear all era's,all styles, everything up to New Soulfull House at some events. But,even though I love a wide variety of different style Soul music, its definitely not all Crossover. That was my only point really. Keep on doin,whatcha doin Fred, we're only here once mate…..Be careful though, that Brainstorm track is so fast it could be dangerous  if dancing is attempted these days:) All the best, Ivor

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About 10 years ago on this site I described Crossover as an uncomfortable bed partner of both the Northern & the Modern scenes & I still stick by that.
As for the 1968 to 1973 nonsense try having a listen to this from the Charles Bradley album 'Changes' that get's released next month.

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/17/470364642/songs-we-love-charles-bradley-things-we-do-for-love

 

Edited by Cunnie

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Some of the tunes mentioned on this thread Iwould term crossover but many I wouldn't I suppose everybody has there own interpretation of crossover mine is the productions that have a jazzy cabaret feel about them.I suppose you could say a more sanitised version of soul. it's not for me but neither is Country n Western

ML

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12 hours ago, Louise said:

A contender for the top 100 crossover sounds ever would surely be:

The Chimes    "The Beginning Of My Life"  Down To Earth

Although not as sought after as it more illustious stable mate The Kings Of Soul, this little cheapy in value (but high in musical quality) has continued to be a perinnial favourite.

Dave

Alongside Hesitations - Is This the Way To treat a Girl.

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