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Dave Godin Article from 1975


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Guest Polyvelts

 

Great post !

I wish someone would publish an omnibus of his indightful writings, or even an online archive .

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Great stuff dave, funny just came in from our Sunday do and les Norman played 'evil - posse' probably the best record russ w  played.   Not on that list though eh.  Remember black  Friday on Luxembourg  a few years later, massive plugs for Evelyn Thomas- doomsday, the ad came on its the end of the world cue thunder and lightning noise as the record cued in. Luxembourg power play. Happy days. Still are. Cheers

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am taking it that this is where this article was originally sourced from

https://www.soulfulhorwich.org.uk/archives.html?

also there's 4 others B&S articles scanned and ocr'd into text format articles by the sites owner via the link above

plus there's a tidy a handful (20+) more in the pdf format via this link

https://www.soulfulhorwich.org.uk/soul.html

 

full credit deserved to the guy  Soulfulhorwich Gordon Stone for both sharing and preparing all these :thumbsup:

 

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Spain pete

Credit indeed, read it at the time l think ! And didn't really mean nothing, 40 plus years on  can see what all the fuss was about    god how l love  soul music 🎶🎶🎶👍👏

On 16/05/2016 at 16:45, mike said:

am taking it that this is where this article was originally sourced from

https://www.soulfulhorwich.org.uk/archives.html?

also there's 4 others B&S articles scanned and ocr'd into text format articles by the sites owner via the link above

plus there's a tidy a handful (20+) more in the pdf format via this link

https://www.soulfulhorwich.org.uk/soul.html

 

full credit deserved to the guy  Soulfulhorwich Gordon Stone for both sharing and preparing all these :thumbsup:

 

 

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Guest Polyvelts
8 hours ago, maslar said:

A  mixed bad really. Informative on the (then)  current scene  but that  "book review" is dreadful.  It's hardly a review. Also he really should have let the "Mick Jagger" business go. it starts to look stange after a while. :g:

I'm sure I heard somewhere that they went to the same school and MJ used to try and get records from Godin to cover

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1 hour ago, polyvelts said:

I'm sure I heard somewhere that they went to the same school and MJ used to try and get records from Godin to cover

I don't think this is true at all. These stories come from DG hilmself don't they? The age gap between them was too great for them to be at school together.  In his early teens Jagger was working holidays in an American airbase and coming across sounds that DG had probably never heard. If anything it was Jagger doing the educating.  Jagger was a massive Little Richard fan and was barely into his teens at that time. I'm guessing they may have had some form of brief conversation somewhere along the way but the emphasis that DG put on it (in my opinion) was ridiculous and actually bordering on delusions of grandeur.  In one interview I think he actually claimed to be repsonsible for Mick Jaggers success. Although he may have been joking - well I'm hoping so.

He also claimes he told Jagger to f*** of in the Ready Steady Go studio when apparently Jagger asked DG to introduce him to Marvin Gaye. I  don't beleive this to be true and actually wonder why he would even claim it. Jagger and Gaye already knew each other having met in the States and were on friendly terms before Gaye's first visit to the UK. That aside anyone who knows anything about the pop culture at that time knows that there would be no need for Jagger to have to be introduced to anyone. it was all pretty laid back with mutual admiration etc. See the pic of Jagger and James Brown chatting backstage at a US concert (the one where the Stones topped the bill much to Brown's dipleasure. They still got on fine.

Still, I've seen people repeat thise claims as if they're facts. Something DG actually complains about in the article above.

Also he refers to MJ as an "upper middle class yob". This is very telling because it's completley untrue. Jagger was middle-class but definitley not upper middle class (there is a huge difference). Nor was he ever really yobbish in his behaviour. In fact most of the time he was actually very polite.

  

Edited by maslar
typo
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I well remember that Soul Book review when it first appeared; Godin really didn't like it one little bit did he, and I suspect some of that was down to his uneasy relationship with Tony Cummings at the time. I thought then, and think now, that the chapters by Simon Frith and Ian Hoare were pretty average - so I'm definitely with Dave on that - but the one by Clive Anderson was great and I learned a lot from it. He - Anderson- was an excellent writer on soul  and I have no idea what happened to him.

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17 minutes ago, johndelve said:

I well remember that Soul Book review when it first appeared; Godin really didn't like it one little bit did he, and I suspect some of that was down to his uneasy relationship with Tony Cummings at the time. I thought then, and think now, that the chapters by Simon Frith and Ian Hoare were pretty average - so I'm definitely with Dave on that - but the one by Clive Anderson was great and I learned a lot from it. He - Anderson- was an excellent writer on soul  and I have no idea what happened to him.

I've never read that particular book but that review tells me nothing about it other than DG seems to have an extreme dislike of some of the people involved. A review should be informative. You don't have believe it or agree but it should offer something to work from. DG doesn't do that. He just seems to want to get to Mick Jagger    sooner rather than later.  Nothing specific is addressed and there's absolutely no lucidity. Where are the examples? Where are the corrections to the mistakes he complains about?  

Edited by maslar
typo
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Sometimes when you read a book that you have committed to review but which is so bad you just don't know where to start, plus there's a deadline and a word limit, instead of listing and correcting mistakes (tedious, time-consuming and ultimately why bother given the likely return on investment) it's more informative to explore why such a piece of junk ever came about in the first place. As with the music it's a subjective sport but Godin had already earned the credibility to justify taking the approach he did, even if the Anderson chapter ended up as collateral damage. I'm quite sure Frith alone would have been enough to irritate in the extreme. Would the cover price have justified purchasing the book for Anderson's chapter alone? That's also a subjective sport, but you can always wait for it to turn up in the second hand scene.

Agree with Polyvelts above - some kind of omnibus of Godin's writings would be very welcome.

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8 minutes ago, Mickey Finn said:

Sometimes when you read a book that you have committed to review but which is so bad you just don't know where to start, plus there's a deadline and a word limit, instead of listing and correcting mistakes (tedious, time-consuming and ultimately why bother given the likely return on investment) it's more informative to explore why such a piece of junk ever came about in the first place. As with the music it's a subjective sport but Godin had already earned the credibility to justify taking the approach he did, even if the Anderson chapter ended up as collateral damage. I'm quite sure Frith alone would have been enough to irritate in the extreme. Would the cover price have justified purchasing the book for Anderson's chapter alone? That's also a subjective sport, but you can always wait for it to turn up in the second hand scene.

Agree with Polyvelts above - some kind of omnibus of Godin's writings would be very welcome.

Sorry but I have to disagree. If you're going to put yourself upand out  there and be given a platforn as prominent as Blue and Soul then I would expect better. Maybe less time  wasted time on  china plates tales?  

The other thing that I completley disagree with (and which I think is quite illustrative) is the notion put forward by some - but Godin makes a real issue of it here in an  unnecesarilly offensive manner - that white artists  such as the Beatles andThe Stones exploited black american artist by covering their music. I don't believe this to  be true at all. Neither, from  what  I have read over the decades do the artists concerned. In fact greats such as Muddy waters, BB King and Sonny Boy Williamson were openly appreciative of the support they got from Jagger, McCartney, Burdon etc etc. Many rightly stated that  it gave their careers a fresh  impetus. And many were on very friendly close terms with their  UK admirers. Eric Clapton was even Muddy waters' best man at his wedding. 

What's more troubling to  me is that I'm sure that the critics of Jagger et al know this it be the case. It's so obviously true and on the record. Therefore they can only be working under two basic assumptions: Either that the black artists are too stupid to realise  they are being exploited or that they know but for whatever reason turn a blind eye to it or submissivley put up with it. Both are extremely offensive and untrue. But that in a round about way is what Godin is saying (probably without even realising it). I like a lot of the things Godin wrote and find much of it interesting -  I wasn't  buying Blues and Soul when he wrote for it. But I wouldn't take blind lectures off him on black american history (his knowledge of "the Ghetto" shows he has only a superficial understanding) nor would  I be talked down to or  lectured. No one is beyond questioning or correction.  Particulary if they're going to make highly contentious and inflamatory remarks.

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A sociological book on soul music is likely to have plenty of reviews in other forums. Ultimately, is the B&S reader of 1975 going to want to read or buy this book? Godin makes it clear  - probably not. That may or may not be true but if I want to know more I can always head down to my local bookstore (of which there were many more in 1975) or check out other publications for reviews. Anyone with experience of know-nothing know-it-alls will understand immediately where Godin is coming from.

As for slagging off Jagger, Clapton etc., time has proved Godin wrong about Jagger. And Decca Records and Mike Vernon especially did a lot to bring over the original artists to record in London during the 60s alongside the likes of Clapton, John Mayall, the Stones, etc. On this topic Godin's scattergun seemed to get the better of him.

The china plates tales are possibly of greater historical value than a book review. In addition to giving a flavour of the scene at the time, there are some useful heads-ups about things that might otherwise have been forgotten, e.g. Chris Hill's involvement with Dizzy Heights, alongside a top drawer selection of UK musical talent of the time. Also demonstrating that for Godin at least, it was natural to write about Wigan and Chris Hill just as positively and in the same column.

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Recently found the book in question in the loft (along with 'Making Tracks' - The History Of Atlantic Records by Charlie Gillett)

Interesting to hear comments on Dave Godin's review, with the book fairly fresh in my mind. Yes, there is some very good detailed information in there, but in my opinion, there is a naivety when opinions are expressed, or when the authors move away from fact, to opinion. So, I can kinda see where Dave Godin was coming from.

The book is worth checking out , but being 42 years old, it may be elusive to find.

On a more positive note, the final chapter ' The Future' opens with-

'soul in the late seventies seems secure in the custody of outstanding artists like Millie Jackson, Laura Lee, and Bobby Womack ,not to mention the ever consistent Bill Withers and veteran Esther Phillips'

Those were the days my friends..............

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