Bob Relf, Bob and Earl, Bobby Garrett

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Greetings all, first post in the proper forum, so hope it's in the right place.

 

A sound I acquired early on in my soul journey, a gift from a friend, on the Trans label 'Blowing my mind to pieces' Bob Relf, what a lovely record. Always intrigued me the little drum and sticks carved into the dead-wax, have spent ages just admiring that little touch, the sheen on the disc, and listening to it, would never get bored of it. When I spotted on the flip side credited R. Relf, yep the guy could write too, Bob Relf entered the memory as being much more than just a hired voice.

 

Bob and Earl 'My little girl' instrumental, real nice composition with great interesting instrumentation, really like it and found out later that the Bob was the very same Bob Relf, clearly a very talented guy and a big player in terms of Northern Soul. I'm not aware of his success level in terms of monetary success or US chart achievements but certainly a force to be reckoned with whether recognised in the mainstream or not. I didn't have this one until years later when it was on a Goldmine CD boxset I was given as a present, but a friend had the 45 back in the day and I used to ask her to spin it whenever I was at her place.

 

Vividly remember being at an early Keele and, it was either Brian Rae, Keith Minshull or Dave Evison spun a sound that just floored me, I'm not much of a dancing man, although I try when moved sufficiently, well this sound, new to my ears just rattled me to the core, had to run to the floor, this sublime sound, smooth, full, was like having luke-warm syrup poured into my ears, like being bathed in warm butter by a bevvy of beauties from the Temple of Vesta, seriously the word Rapture would be only just sufficient to describe this two minutes of sheer bliss. I had to have this record. I had no clue what it was and ran over to a friend (my now wife) whom I knew would know the name of it! Yes, Bobby Garrett 'I can't get away'. It might've been Tim Ashibende who had it in his box in the record bar, it wasn't expensive, maybe a fiver, somebody else paid for it. I spent a good while in that bright room studying this piece of plastic, couldn't wait to see it spin round and round and knew when the stylus dropped on it I would be in for that same blissfull hit. But, reading the credits, one Robert Relf and Earl Nelson!

 

Later I bought a copy of Bobby Garrett 'My little girl' win-win I thought, the Bob and Earl track with my fave male vocalist singing, excellent.

 

So the internet age arrives and looking into Bob Relf a bit online and find that Bobby Garrett IS Bob Relf performing under another name. His career encompassed Bob and Earl, Bob Relf, Bobby Garrett, a major talent and a very sweet voice and those compositions/arrangements, smooth!

 

Now, I know the esteemed collective at SS know all this, the mind boggles at the wealth of knowledge collectively stored away! So with that in mind and with these records being some of my most prized, not interested in monetary value at all, I have a couple of questions to ask.

 

Where was 'I can't get away' first played and by whom?' And where would you say venue-wise was it a sound most identified with?

 

Discovered by?

 

And the 45 'Short skirts' a Rock n Roll-ish RnB track Credited Bobby Garrett by Roy Lee Combo with Bobby Garrett...Is this our Bob Relf too?

 

Also would appreciate any recommendations for sounds to check out regarding Relf/Garrett.

 

Cheers and best wishes!

 

 

[The Yank]

Bob Relf co-wrote (with Earl Nelson) and produced the classic "Try A Little Harder" for the Fi-Dels on Keymen.

[Kegsy]

10 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Greetings all, first post in the proper forum, so hope it's in the right place.

 

Where was 'I can't get away' first played and by whom?' And where would you say venue-wise was it a sound most identified with?

 

Discovered by?

 

 

 

Definitely played at the Torch, although I reckon it pre-dates the Torch, I think it was played at a nighter in Bradford, the L'Ambassadour. If so then it may even have got spins at The Wheel, I never went so don't know, but somebody will. The timing would be right as people were picking up on Ric-Tic, Mirwood and other labels in the later Wheel years.

[Koolkat]

I Cant Get Away.................... File under A for Awesome. Doesnt get much better. Proper northern soul.

[Chalky]

The drum and sticks carving you refer to is the stamp used by the mastering company Artisan. 

[Woodbutcher]

Plenty of credits listed on Discogs ... https://www.discogs.com/artist/706990-Bob-Relf?filter_anv=0&type=Credits

 

[Ady Croasdell]

He also did a solo of 'Mine Exclusively' called Keep It Coming unreleased till on the Kent Mirwood CDs. It's also on a Star Of Mirwood vinyl EP.

[Dayo]

Bob Relf BMMTP was the first record I ever heard "up north" in 1973.  My ears had an orgasm.

[Only Dreaming]

An incredible artist alright. I remember "Blowing my mind to pieces/girl your my kind of wonderful" being one of the first records that really blew me away when I first heard it in the mid 80's and was always spellbound by the harmonies on the chorus of "wonderful".

Many years later I heard this track and was mesmerised all over again:

 

Great thread ;-)

Dave

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Only Dreaming
typo

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Thanks folks, some good info there for me so cheers, that Fi-Dels track, yes I know and like the track, listening to it now I can hear the Relf connection, very similar in feel to ICGA, smashing! The Olympics track is a new one on me so thanks for that, again, great stuff from Mr Relf, I know he was only a small guy physically but musically the guy was huge in stature IMO! Nice to see his musical output is still held in high esteem in people's hearts!

Thanks everyone, one for the warm welcome and two for making my first post about the music a good one!

Going out this weekend to a small local event and guaranteed to get some sweet soul so looking for'ard to that!

Best wishes! 

(Using this as an opportunity to learn how to embed a track, here it is in good quality! For anyone new to the music and hearing it for the first time, I envy you!)

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by BabyBoyAndMyLass
Edited to remove mp4 that didn't work!

[Ljblanken]

 

this is a nice Relf composition. sounds pretty "blue eyed" (and actually gets spun on the garage scene i think).

 

 

[Frankie Crocker]

Before my time but I would guess The Twisted Wheel and certainly The Torch. Mirwood records are generally common and would have been more available than most in the early 70's. The legacy of Relf/Garrett was in evidence at Mr M's so the records had already featured in the early venues and by then we're 'oldies'. 

[Kris Holmes]

i like this early one, spooky, jazzy 

 

[Tricky]

You can almost get a Mirwood feel on that Renovations track.Pity he didnt cut it himself.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

11 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Before my time but I would guess The Twisted Wheel and certainly The Torch. Mirwood records are generally common and would have been more available than most in the early 70's. The legacy of Relf/Garrett was in evidence at Mr M's so the records had already featured in the early venues and by then we're 'oldies'. 

My lass loves her oldies and spent most of her time in Ms, she remembers ICGA being an Ms sound. Can imagine hearing it at the Torch or Ms (I'm too young to have gone to either) must have been magic times!

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

This is turning into a nice little document charting the mans' work right from his early days, the quality was there as an emerging artist!

Some nice treats for me hearing some of these for the first time!

Thanks very much everyone for the contributions.

 

[Frankie Crocker]

2 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

My lass loves her oldies and spent most of her time in Ms, she remembers ICGA being an Ms sound. Can imagine hearing it at the Torch or Ms (I'm too young to have gone to either) must have been magic times!

If was an M's tune in the early days of the Casino, it was sure to have been spun at The Torch and maybe The Wheel. Don't forget, there were other top venues such as Cats, Va Va's, Palais etc where some Mirwood tune might have had the first spin. If a record appeared on the Jay Boy UK label, it was generally a popular spin at one of the early clubs. Bob Relf is in the spotlight at present with a few of us chasing the yellow label release of Blowing My Mind To Pieces - rumoured to be scarcer than the orange release, a couple have gone for big money recently including one on John Manship's auction.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

32 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

<snip> Bob Relf is in the spotlight at present with a few of us <snip> 

He certainly is in this thread!

Oh I didn't know about the record, not very clued in to the collecting scene and labels and stuff, I'm very interested in it though, read a lot here about discoveries and 'digging', very interested in hearing that kind of thing, a bit like digging for old bottles, which I'm also interested in.

Regarding the whole 'oldies' and 'newies' thing, yes my lass used to go to Ms to hear the oldies sounds rather than the new sounds that were being spun at Wigan, she likes some of them nowadays but is an oldies girl at heart hence her spending most of her time in Ms, I'd like her to get involved with the forum, she does know a lot and has great memory for venues and sounds etc, but sadly she isn't very keen, so you're stuck with me I'm afraid, I'm pretty much a pleb really, having only been on the scene since the mid 8ts.

Good luck with the record Frankie, will be watching out for developments with it!

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 12:43, ady croasdell said:

He also did a solo of 'Mine Exclusively' called Keep It Coming unreleased till on the Kent Mirwood CDs. It's also on a Star Of Mirwood vinyl EP.

Oh I see, thanks for the heads up Ady, like the Kent stuff, recently bought my lass the Ty Karim stuff on Kent, the CD and dare I say it... The 45 reissues! Shes' a huge fan of the lovely lady and now, so am I, having no previous knowledge of her work, a great tribute Kent did there, such an enigmatic artist!

[Ady Croasdell]

14 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Oh I see, thanks for the heads up Ady, like the Kent stuff, recently bought my lass the Ty Karim stuff on Kent, the CD and dare I say it... The 45 reissues! Shes' a huge fan of the lovely lady and now, so am I, having no previous knowledge of her work, a great tribute Kent did there, such an enigmatic artist!

Thanks and don't forget the vinyl LP for her birthday!

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Thought I'd add to this thread by including 'My little girl' Bobby Garrett.

Looking into the credits on these old records of mine I'm seeing Fred Smith a lot on the production side, I'm also seeing his name on other Mirwoods, like my all time favourite spin 'Don't pretend' The Belles, (although my own copy is a President demo). Listening to the bass in particular, I'm thinking same backing band as ICGA, probably the Mirwood equivalent of the Funk Brothers, this area of the scene really interests me, being in the live music game myself, albeit at a small level, I'll be trying to find as much as I can about the Mirwood 'machine', the engineers and musicians that made the sound, and the label itself.

Judging by this video for 'Keep it comin' this is what is meant in Soul circles by the term 'Titty shaker'...?

 

[Steve S 60]

Some nice early Bob & Earl.....Don't Ever Leave Me.

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Thanks for that Steve! Good record.

Hadn't realised that Bob and Earl had recorded a different version of ICGA, I can see how the collecting bug gets a grip of yer, having seen this, kinda 'need' this one now, slightly different mix, maybe an earlier demo?

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Looking a little deeper into The Fidels 'Try a little harder' (have to do something to abate my obsession with The Ronettes 'Be my baby' having just made an arrangement for male vocal to use in my 50s RnR cabaret band) I'm listening to The Fidels 'Try a little harder' and the vocal sounds different to 'Boys will be boys' and 'I want to thank you' both written by Willie Hutchinson, the Relf penned 'Try' sounds to me a lot like the man himself on lead vocal. Is anything known about this record? Like IS it Relf on lead vocal?

[Chris L]

"Can't get away" "My little girl" & "try a little harder" all played at the Torch & Catacombs, don't think they were played at Wheel though, Julien would be better placed to comment.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

'Our' Bobby Garrett not to be confused with the Nashville Steel geetar player Bobby Garrett whom I alluded to with the 'Short skirts' thing in the OP!

[Soul-slider]

Not Relf but Carmichael and Mirwood connected...

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Excellent! Love The Furys, 'I'm satisfied with you' a favourite tune, this one new to me but yes great side! Mirwood a great label, I don't know much about labels but I have seen Mirwood tunes on Jayboy and President (The Belles) I'm  assuming UK issues but have no clue really, obviously an outlet for Keymen either way.

Thanks!

[Local]

7 hours ago, Chris L said:

"Can't get away" "My little girl" & "try a little harder" all played at the Torch & Catacombs, don't think they were played at Wheel though, Julien would be better placed to comment.

All were played at Blackpool Mecca (just after the Wheel had closed) by Tony Jebb / Les Cockell (probably Ian's records though)

Edited October 9, 2016 by local

[Chris L]

8 hours ago, local said:

All were played at Blackpool Mecca (just after the Wheel had closed) by Tony Jebb / Les Cockell (probably Ian's records though)

We were there at that time but I don't remember them, it's possible.

[Kegsy]

On 9/9/2016 at 10:20, Koolkat said:

I Cant Get Away.................... File under A for Awesome. Doesnt get much better. Proper northern soul.

I've had numerous blue issues and demos of this over the years, but I've only ever had (and still have) one PURPLE issue copy. It begs the question is the purple issue rarer than the demo, looking at the Popsike sales it would look like it to me.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Kegsy

[Ady Croasdell]

On 10/9/2016 at 13:54, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Looking a little deeper into The Fidels 'Try a little harder' (have to do something to abate my obsession with The Ronettes 'Be my baby' having just made an arrangement for male vocal to use in my 50s RnR cabaret band) I'm listening to The Fidels 'Try a little harder' and the vocal sounds different to 'Boys will be boys' and 'I want to thank you' both written by Willie Hutchinson, the Relf penned 'Try' sounds to me a lot like the man himself on lead vocal. Is anything known about this record? Like IS it Relf on lead vocal?

Bob Relf was never in the group.

 

At the time of the Keymen 45 they were Jimmy Locke,  Alvin Sykes, Walter Pride, James C Brown and a guy named Gene-I've not found his surname. Jimmy Locke is the most featured so may have been the lead.

[Local]

7 hours ago, Chris L said:

We were there at that time but I don't remember them, it's possible.

Not just possible............ deffinite

[jam66]

You mention Fred Smith in one of the posts. Seem to recall an 'urban legend' on the scene way back when that said person was Barry White, well yyetknow what urban legends are like.

 

First heard BMMTP at the Mecca courtesy of Levine/Curtis and it created quite a stir, just the kind of tune to get you hooked. Was it played at the Cats before that. A few I thought were Mecca firsts had actually broken at the Cats.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

14 minutes ago, jam66 said:

You mention Fred Smith in one of the posts. Seem to recall an 'urban legend' on the scene way back when that said person was Barry White, well yyetknow what urban legends are like.

 

First heard BMMTP at the Mecca courtesy of Levine/Curtis and it created quite a stir, just the kind of tune to get you hooked. Was it played at the Cats before that. A few I thought were Mecca firsts had actually broken at the Cats.

Cracking input, thankyou.

Fred Smith is the producers' credit on a lot of Mirwoods, Barry White did indeed start his music career working in studios as piano player and tea-maker so yes could be...

Just the kind of input I'm fishing for thanks, an example of this kinda thing is, Billy Joel played piano on the Shangri-Las hits in the 60s, before he had his own breakthrough with 'My life'... (Big Shangris fan here)

Mecca and the likes of Levine and Curtis, heroes of the scene imo, mecca playlist just off the scale, too young to have attended wigan or mecca btw, hence Babyboy...started in the 8ts!

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by BabyBoyAndMyLass

[jam66]

At only 62 I'm also one of the younger members too. 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

5 minutes ago, jam66 said:

At only 62 I'm also one of the younger members too. 

It's an enduring scene, I've said elsewhere it'll never die, I know young kids who adore the northern records, there's only two types of music across the whole music world, good and sh**, northern is some of the best ever created, and on the subject, Bob Relf/Garrett is up there, ICGA if you don't like it you don't get northern plus there is something wrong with yer ears!

Best wishes man, and thanks for gracing my thread! But I'm still Babyboy, not even 50 yet and been a face for 30 years!

[jam66]

Sherlie Mathews who wrote My Little Girl was also a pivotal figure at Mirwood BB  a very interesting lady, wrote My Sugar Baby as well and a chit load of others. Produced, wrote, arranged and probably changed that flat tyre for you if it was raining lol.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

28 minutes ago, jam66 said:

Sherlie Mathews who wrote My Little Girl was also a pivotal figure at Mirwood BB  a very interesting lady, wrote My Sugar Baby as well and a chit load of others. Produced, wrote, arranged and probably changed that flat tyre for you if it was raining lol.

Hi, yes Matthews also wrote The Belles 'Don't pretend', which alongside 'I can't get away' these two Mirwoods are in my opinion two of the greatest Northern soul sides of all time. Not only that but in online conversations she states that she also sang the lead on it, whereas other people say it was Brenda Holloway with Patrice Holloway on backing. I tend towards the idea that it was all three. The YT post of DP here posted has a comment from Matthews stating that she sang it.

Thanks for this input!  

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by BabyBoyAndMyLass

[Soul-slider]

Anyone got any info on this release? Earnest Nelson (E.N) = Earl Nelson (Jackie Lee) possibly?

Ray Nelson a relative? From Hollywood, California so same area as Mirwood stuff.

 

[Ady Croasdell]

On 10/30/2016 at 13:19, jam66 said:

Sherlie Mathews who wrote My Little Girl was also a pivotal figure at Mirwood BB  a very interesting lady, wrote My Sugar Baby as well and a chit load of others. Produced, wrote, arranged and probably changed that flat tyre for you if it was raining lol.

She did a lot of great stuff but not the original Connie Clark My Sugar baby that was Frank Wilson, the one Sherlie is credited on is a Soussain bootleg of My Little Girl. Sherlie did It's Written All Over My Face, Gonna Hang On In There and loads of Mirwood recordings. 

[Ady Croasdell]

On 11/2/2016 at 11:47, Soul-Slider said:

Anyone got any info on this release? Earnest Nelson (E.N) = Earl Nelson (Jackie Lee) possibly?

Ray Nelson a relative? From Hollywood, California so same area as Mirwood stuff.

 

That's interesting, there's also an Earnest Nelson release on Runaway which sounds later than this. Jackie Lee aka Earl Nelson was named Earl Lee Nelson Jr. As the Earl in Bob & Earl who had been big names in L A since the late 50s I don't think he would have been moonlighting under this incorrect but close name. The Runaway single doesn't sound like him at all and he was an established solo act by then since The Duck. Worth a punt though.

[jam66]

4 hours ago, ady croasdell said:

She did a lot of great stuff but not the original Connie Clark My Sugar baby that was Frank Wilson, the one Sherlie is credited on is a Soussain bootleg of My Little Girl. Sherlie did It's Written All Over My Face, Gonna Hang On In There and loads of Mirwood recordings. 

Of course, oops! Thanks for straightening the gaffe Adey.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

On ‎10‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 12:45, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

If was an M's tune in the early days of the Casino, it was sure to have been spun at The Torch and maybe The Wheel. Don't forget, there were other top venues such as Cats, Va Va's, Palais etc where some Mirwood tune might have had the first spin. If a record appeared on the Jay Boy UK label, it was generally a popular spin at one of the early clubs. Bob Relf is in the spotlight at present with a few of us chasing the yellow label release of Blowing My Mind To Pieces - rumoured to be scarcer than the orange release, a couple have gone for big money recently including one on John Manship's auction.

Hi Frank, as anyone who reads my input will know I know nothing about records and I've had a lot of luck recently researching the ones I do have that I've had for years, so is this the yellow TRANS release or just another copy?

[Nickinstoke]

On ‎23‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 17:59, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Thanks for that Steve! Good record.

Hadn't realised that Bob and Earl had recorded a different version of ICGA, I can see how the collecting bug gets a grip of yer, having seen this, kinda 'need' this one now, slightly different mix, maybe an earlier demo?

 

I've still never quite worked out if the Bob & Earl is a different recording from Bobby Garrett, despite playing them back-to-back over the years. Bob & Earl sounds as if it could just be a poorly-reproduced Bobby Garrett, but I'm a bit cloth-eared! Does anyone knw for sure?

[Robbk]

On 9/10/2016 at 04:40, Kris Holmes said:

i like this early one, spooky, jazzy 

 

Yes, Bobby Relf sang lead for several groups in the early 1950s, many for John Dolphin's labels (Recorded in Hollywood, Lucky, Cash, Money) as well as Leon Rene's Class, Dot, and a bunch of L.A. labels.  If I remember correctly, he went to Fremont High School with several other singers, where many of the big early South Central artists lived.  The other big schools for talent were Manual Arts and Jordan H.S.  Bobby was a sweet singer in the early '50s (a lot of ballads sung in the Jesse Belvin style).  He started as lead of his first group, The Laurels.  He also later sang with The Crescendoes, the Upfronts, Valentino and the Lovers (Donna Records) The Hollywood Flames and Bobby Day and the Satellites.  He also sang solo as Bobby Valentino, and Bobby Garrett.

Throughout the 1950s, members of many of the L.A. R&B recording and appearing groups were virtually interchangeable.  Singers like Gaynel Hodge, Jesse Belvin, Bobby Day, Bobby Relf and many others could end up recording stray songs with other groups because that group had a singer missing, and they were at the same recording studio that day.  Also, competition for jobs at venues was keen, so many singers were regular members of two, and sometimes even 3 groups at the same time, while also accepting solo gigs and also getting background singing work in the studios as much as possible.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by RobbK

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

3 hours ago, RobbK said:

Yes, Bobby Relf sang lead for several groups in the early 1950s, many for John Dolphin's labels (Recorded in Hollywood, Lucky, Cash, Money) as well as Leon Rene's Class, Dot, and a bunch of L.A. labels.  If I remember correctly, he went to Fremont High School with several other singers, where many of the big early South Central artists lived.  The other big schools for talent were Manual Arts and Jordan H.S.  Bobby was a sweet singer in the early '50s (a lot of ballads sung in the Jesse Belvin style).  He started as lead of his first group, The Laurels.  He also later sang with The Crescendoes, the Upfronts, Valentino and the Lovers (Donna Records) The Hollywood Flames and Bobby Day and the Satellites.  He also sang solo as Bobby Valentino, and Bobby Garrett.

Throughout the 1950s, members of many of the L.A. R&B recording and appearing groups were virtually interchangeable.  Singers like Gaynel Hodge, Jesse Belvin, Bobby Day, Bobby Relf and many others could end up recording stray songs with other groups because that group had a singer missing, and they were at the same recording studio that day.  Also, competition for jobs at venues was keen, so many singers were regular members of two, and sometimes even 3 groups at the same time, while also accepting solo gigs and also getting background singing work in the studios as much as possible.

 

Thanks Robb for this valuable contribution! A lot of folks don't appreciate that the music business is a machine, work is allocated as and when necessary and to whomever can deliver the goods on the day. Hope you are keeping well buddy, best wishes! Again good input!

 

[Robbk]

4 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Thanks Robb for this valuable contribution! A lot of folks don't appreciate that the music business is a machine, work is allocated as and when necessary and to whomever can deliver the goods on the day. Hope you are keeping well buddy, best wishes! Again good input!

 

Thanks.  Nice to see a music thread to which I can contribute, for a change.  Sadly, 95% of my notifications of action on these fora in the last several weeks has been for the "Show Your Great Photos" thread.  I guess a large portion of our regular posters are enjoying their holidays. 

As I dwell in 5 homes in 5 different countries every year, roaming from place to place like a Gypsy, I don't take holiday vacation trips.  So, I poke my head in here almost every day, after arriving at my next house or flat.  That's because, in each case, I'm home again, and get back into my normal routine after the usual 2 days of welcoming parties from my family and friends in each place.

[Chalky]

Don't know if its been mentioned in this topic but the original Bob of Bob & Earl was Bobby Byrd alongside Earl Nelson.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

22 hours ago, chalky said:

Don't know if its been mentioned in this topic but the original Bob of Bob & Earl was Bobby Byrd alongside Earl Nelson.

I don't know if it has been mentioned Chalky, but yes you are quite right of course!