Primettes sing backgrounds on "Teenage Queen"

[Robbk]

Primettes sing backgrounds on "Teenage Queen"

Craig Moerer is selling this studio demo record of "Teenage Queen" for $300,(same song as Joe Hunter and Fred Brown's J.J. Barnes' cut on Mickay's Records from 1963 - so he says), listing it as The Primettes backing up an unknown singer.

I don't remember seeing "Teenage Queen" as one of the songs they performed backup. Martha and The Vandellas (Del-Fi's/Del-Phi's) backed up on many of the Joe Hunter/Fred Brown productions (even as late as early 1964). So, as Joe Hunter was still leading The Funk Brothers in mid 1964, he could have brought the Supremes in to moonlight in mid 1963 (while under contract to Motown, but still before they had any hits). OR, could Robert West have used The Primettes in 1960 or 1961, before they signed with Motown, and the song never had a release until J.J. Barnes' Mickay's release in 1963? However, the second scenario isn't very likely, asJ.J. Barnes wrote that song.

[Robbk]

The girls singing background on The J.J. Barnes record don't sound like The Dell-Fi's or Vandellas, who usually backed him, but sound like they could possibly have been The Supremes (but I don't think they were). The singer on this demo record is "unknown", so it can't be J.J. Barnes, as Craig certainly must have heard that version before.

Maybe the lead is one of the same two male singers (James Dee (Duddley) or Walt Jessup) who had those small indie New York label releases in 1962-63 (on Enrica and Pussy Cat Records), giving The Primettes label credit? I've listened to those New York productions, and they sound nothing like Detroit, and the voices sound nothing like The Supremes.

I'm very curious to hear "Teenage Queen", especially to hear if it's the same track, or, at least the same song as J.J. Barnes sang.  I hope that whoever buys it will want to get help authenticating it, and will post at least snippets of it on a forum I frequent (this one, or Soulful Detroit's Motown Forum), so we can hear it.

 

[Mick Holdsworth]

22 minutes ago, RobbK said:

I'm very curious to hear "Teenage Queen", especially to hear if it's the same track, or, at least the same song as J.J. Barnes sang.  I hope that whoever buys it will want to get help authenticating it, and will post at least snippets of it on a forum I frequent (this one, or Soulful Detroit's Motown Forum), so we can hear it.

 

There's a sound file on the eBay listing. Here's a direct link ...

https://www.recordsbymail.com/uploads/October_2010/teenage-queen.mp3

Cheers
Mick

[Robbk]

Thanks!  Based on those two snippets, I can tell that the recordings were made in Detroit.  And, it IS, indeed, the song "Teenage Queen", written by Joe Hunter and Fred brown.  And the musicians sound like Joe Hunter's band (same as those used with j.j. Barnes.  The male lead vocalist's voice sounds very familiar 9a known Detroit artist).  His voice is smoother and higher than J.J.'s.  The other song, "Someone"? is unknown to me.  The sound is from 1962.  The girls' voices could possibly be The Supremes.  i definitely do NOT hear Diana Ross' voice.  I don't know if i hear Mary or Flo.   Can't tell if Barbara Martin is there.  I guess, the songs could also be from 1961 (potentially before The primettes signed with Motown.  I wonder where Craig got the information that The primettes were on that record.  The girls in the background are certainly not The Del-Fi's/Vandellas.   We need to find out more about these 2 recordings. 

[Robbk]

Although the voice of the male lead sounds a bit higher and smoother than J.J.'s, it has some of his mannerisms.  And, as Barnes wrote the song, I can't help thinking that maybe this recording was a 1960 or 1961 recording by J.J., for Fred Brown's Kable Records, and J.J.'s Mickay's Records version of "Teenage Queen" (from late 1963 or early 1964) was a remake.  I would bet against the background girls being The Primettes, without seeing some evidence.  I wonder what Craig isn't telling us?

Edited October 1, 2016 by RobbK

[djspproductions]

The acetate record came from Robert West. I would say that it is possible that it is the Primettes. He did work with them on this unreleased track "Tears of Sorrow"  recorded in 1960 by the Primettes. These Detroit artists really were a tight knit bunch, lots of dots connect in the 60's.

I have an issue copy of jj with teenage queen and someone and this acetate sounds exactly the same. 

On the topic of a Mickay's record. I have a question for you Rob. Do you have any knowledge about these three rare Mickay's 45 cuts?

L.B. Tully - Unknown Girl - Mickay's Records AP 7670

3011 - Big George - I Love You Yes I Do / Hi Ho Silver - 1963

AP 7669 - THE OTHER KIND - NO TIME TO LEND B/W CAN'T WAIT FOREVER

 

I have these 45's in my collection.  My Favorite label 

JJ Barnes - So Far Away

JJ Barnes - Just One More Time, both pink labels

JJ Barnes - Color Green /  These Chains

JJ Barnes - Lonely No More

Orthea Barnes - Same as Before

JJ Barnes - Teenage Queen (issue copy and now acquired the acetate)

The Legends - Hideout

Checkers - Cosmos Place

Mel Anton - Love Is Born

 

All of these are soooo spectacular!!

Edited December 31, 2016 by djspproductions

[Robbk]

16 minutes ago, djspproductions said:

The acetate record came from Robert West. I would say that it is possible that it is the Primettes. He did work with them on this unreleased track "Tears of Sorrow"  recorded in 1960 by the Primettes. I have an issue copy of jj with teenage queen and someone and this acetate sounds exactly the same. 

On the topic of a Mickay's record. Do you have any knowledge about these three rare Mickay's 45 cuts?

L.B. Tully - Unknown Girl - Mickay's Records AP 7670

3011 - Big George - I Love You Yes I Do / Hi Ho Silver - 1963

AP 7669 - THE OTHER KIND - NO TIME TO LEND B/W CAN'T WAIT FOREVER

 

I have these 45's in my collection.  My Favorite label 

JJ Barnes - So Far Away

JJ Barnes - Just One More Time, both labels orange and pink

JJ Barnes - Lonely No More

Orthea Barnes - Same as Before

JJ Barnes - Teenage Queen (issue copy and now acquired the acetate)

The Legends - Hideout

Checkers - Cosmos Place

Mel Anton - Love Is Born

 

 

  Yes, I played thos files again, and it's clear that the acetate was for the Mickay's record, not earlier recordings  for Fred Brown's and Joe Hunter's Kable Records.  Therefore, the girls in the background can't be The Primettes, unless it was recorded back in early 1961, and used with 1963 cuts by J.J. Barnes.  I don't think that happened.  Perhaps Motown's hitless Supremes moonlighted with Joe Hunter and Fred Brown in 1963, but, to me the girls on that record don't sound like them.  I don't hear any of them  individually.  I have all the records you listed as having, plus one extra Mel Anton.  There were 3 by him.  Plus, I also have the first J.J. Barnes on Mickay's (#300) "These Chains of love"/"Color-Green".  The other 2 Mel Antons you didn't list are: 3003 "What Can I Do"/"What's On Your Mind" , and 3005/3006 "Hey Little Girl"/"Third House, Second Block" (I've never seen this).

Did you know that J.J. Barnes' record on Ring 101 ("Poor Unfortunate Me"/"She Ain't Ready"), is essentialy a Mickay's production.  It is only that Fred Brown ran out of money to press up the record, so he gave Armen Boladian half the publishing rights (Bridgeport Music shared with Brown's & Hunter's Brohun Music) to finance it.  So, it came out on Ring (a label joint owned by the two partners.

As to the 3 rare records:  I've never seen any of the 3.  But Big George's Mickay's 3011 IS definitely Brown and Hunter's Detroit Mickay's 1962-64 label, and does exist.  It is on "Soulfulkindamusic's discography of the label.  The LB Tully and The Other Kind, I have never seen nor heard of, and get the feeling they are somewhat later than 1964, and they might not even be Brown's and hunter's Detroit label, or, they might be a later incarnation of the label, after it had been shut down in mid 1964.