Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?

[KevH]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 13:11, KevH said:

Yes a complete con. Stay away from it.

Ditto

[Preston Soulie]

Malcolm 

The prices for soul records are, as you say, crazy. However they reflect how much people want them. Not just DJs who have to play the top sounds on original recordings, but collectors like myself who want an original mint copy. They represent a form of investment as well as they never seem to go down in value.

Paul James. 

[Bossfourpart1]

Paying high sums of money for records is a con !

I guess some people can afford it.....

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

27 minutes ago, Bossfourpart1 said:

Paying high sums of money for records is a con !

I guess some people can afford it.....

It may seem daft in your eyes, paying a lot of dosh for a record. It may seem misguided from an investment point of view. Some people definitely can afford it and do.

How is it a 'Con' though? Nobody is being lied to, you buy what is described for the price described. As long as you get what you were expecting how is it a Con? Where is the dishonesty?

[Guest Shufflin]

supply and demand, that's all it is

I agree with those who expect a 'bust' situation at some point in the future, all those records sat in the collections of the infirm/very old/dead will be sold off and the market won't be there like it was before

Jeanette, for example, how is that a £1000 record, weren't there loads of copies for 50p in bargain bins back in the day ??

[Hooker1951]

I never bought a 45 unless I liked it so investment money wise wasn’t in my thought process just loving the sound and if Dj.ing letting other people like the sounds and the way they were put together was enough for me but different people do things for different reasons that’s what makes the world go round so everybody has loads of different reasons why they bought or buy 45,s if they like buying let them get on with it there are lots of worse hobbies and things they could do or buy.

ML

[Robbk]

40 minutes ago, shufflin said:

supply and demand, that's all it is

I agree with those who expect a 'bust' situation at some point in the future, all those records sat in the collections of the infirm/very old/dead will be sold off and the market won't be there like it was before

Jeanette, for example, how is that a £1000 record, weren't there loads of copies for 50p in bargain bins back in the day ??

During the 1960s through 1980s, the market for DooWop/Old R&B records rose steadily, as the youthful fans of that music became middle-aged, and prosperous in their work, and could afford to bid up the prices.  But, during the early 2000s, as those fans died off, or became too old to care, or needed the money for health care costs, the market prices started a precipitous fall, that has excelerated with each passing year.  Fairly rare records i saw priced in the thousands can now be bought for $100 or $200, and many that were  in the several hundreds can be bought for less than $75, or even $50.  That will also happen to Northern Soul records, eventually.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just now, RobbK said:

During the 1960s through 1980s, the market for DooWop/Old R&B records rose steadily, as the youthful fans of that music became middle-aged, and prosperous in their work, and could afford to bid up the prices.  But, during the early 2000s, as those fans died off, or became too old to care, or needed the money for health care costs, the market prices started a precipitous fall, that has excelerated with each passing year.  Fairly rare records i saw priced in the thousands can now be bought for $100 or $200, and many that were  in the several hundreds can be bought for less than $75, or even $50.  That will also happen to Northern Soul records, eventually.

Agree 100% Robb. The UK soul records scene will go the same way as the large collections of big ticket items are dispersed. As is the nature of human life expectancy this will happen a lot and will happen in quick succession as collectors collectively reach their end days.

Obviously this doesn't constitute a 'con' though, a 'con' being a fraudulent means of obtaining money through dishonesty. People pay their money at their own discretion. Obviously you know this Robb, that last statement was directed at the general people reading the thread. 

[Robbk]

On 11/02/2019 at 10:08, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Agree 100% Robb. The UK soul records scene will go the same way as the large collections of big ticket items are dispersed. As is the nature of human life expectancy this will happen a lot and will happen in quick succession as collectors collectively reach their end days.

Obviously this doesn't constitute a 'con' though, a 'con' being a fraudulent means of obtaining money through dishonesty. People pay their money at their own discretion. Obviously you know this Robb, that last statement was directed at the general people reading the thread. 

Yes.  I never meant to imply that Northern Soul high prices for rare records are in any way related to "a con job", or any kind of trickery or chicanery.  

Edited February 16, 2019 by RobbK

[Mal C]

Anguish guilt and self loathing, good subject for soul record...

Silly thread really like allot of the rubidh we go on about on here, me included,  each to their own init...

m

Edited February 14, 2019 by Mal C

[Wilxy]

If you want a record badly enough, and you can afford it, you buy it within reason, there will always be the odd chancer but TBH, you just have to stay ahead of the game so to speak.....

[Guest Shufflin]

On 14/02/2019 at 20:42, wilxy said:

If you want a record badly enough, and you can afford it, you buy it within reason, there will always be the odd chancer but TBH, you just have to stay ahead of the game so to speak.....

yeah agreed

 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Shufflin

[Frankie Crocker]

Northern Soul is a hobby. Only a fool gets conned. Buying music you like is sensible. That’s what money is for - buying what you like. Paying stupid prices for records is reckless, but sometimes necessary, but doing so for investment purposes can be foolhardy. Sure, there are conmen in the record business - I’ve certainly bought bootlegs in the belief they were original records. None of us wants to be conned or even taken advantage of, so returning to the original question, buying records and attending events is pretty straightforward if you know what you’re doing. Only the gullible end up being conned, but you wise up quickly when you realise you splashed out too much cash.

[Guest Shufflin]

20 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Only the gullible end up being conned, but you wise up quickly when you realise you splashed out too much cash.

So true, buy within your means from decent sellers

it's a hobby, and relatively cheap (gasp) compared to some hobbies

A £300 record I've been after for ages arrived today, not cheap, not mega bucks either, but enjoyed playing it after work to friends we had round, and now it's in my box, happy days

 

[Winsford Soul]

33 minutes ago, shufflin said:

So true, buy within your means from decent sellers

it's a hobby, and relatively cheap (gasp) compared to some hobbies

A £300 record I've been after for ages arrived today, not cheap, not mega bucks either, but enjoyed playing it after work to friends we had round, and now it's in my box, happy days

 

Always get a buzz when a long time want arrives or you find one in a sales box. 

Steve 

[Winsford Soul]

21 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Northern Soul is a hobby. Only a fool gets conned. Buying music you like is sensible. That’s what money is for - buying what you like. Paying stupid prices for records is reckless, but sometimes necessary, but doing so for investment purposes can be foolhardy.

Anyone who buys northern soul records for a investment hopefully gets stung . I have never bought a record no matter how much it cost me as a investment only because of my love of the particular record.  I don't get it. Go find something else to invest in . And fcuk off away from here. Your not wanted 

Steve 

[ashersammy]

On 16/02/2017 at 02:52, Guest chorleybloke said:

Well considered & accurate summary by Gav.... of course it isn't a con.  The OVO market (not just NS) is a global one where there will be literally thousands of minted buyers who won't give a flying fuck what the average selling price on Popsike is, or what the JM guide price is.  If they want it, they'll buy it, just like they will for art or antiques.  For the umpteenth time, the laws of supply & demand will always prevail.  This is also true for the bootleg market and I'm assuming that particular demand is driven by DJs at events where the clientele couldn't care less about OVO.... however I don't live in UK/Europe so that's guesswork.

Cheers..............Pete

S'cuse me, I've been away from the scene for some while : - whats a carver, also what does O V O mean ? 

Also - if anybody can >> please tell Peb Stone that SW would like back the records he and his pal 'borrowed' back in 1998. 

Thank-you all. 

 

[Mark Soul]

anybody got 5 robert thomas salvation for 20 quid each pm me ha ha cheers mark

[Chalky]

29 minutes ago, Mark Soul said:

anybody got 5 robert thomas salvation for 20 quid each pm me ha ha cheers mark

Well Taffy had 7 or 800 a few years ago at about £8 a piece.  £20 is all it should be. 

[Paul Shirley]

On 15/02/2019 at 21:38, Winsford Soul said:

Anyone who buys northern soul records for a investment hopefully gets stung . I have never bought a record no matter how much it cost me as a investment only because of my love of the particular record.  I don't get it. Go find something else to invest in . And fcuk off away from here. Your not wanted 

Steve 

Spot on steve , at one time you saved and went without to buy the tough stuff now it’s dominated by the super rich , 

[Winsford Soul]

3 minutes ago, Paul shirley said:

Spot on steve , at one time you saved and went without to buy the tough stuff now it’s dominated by the super rich , 

Paul. Trust you are well and safe mate.There's to many people hoping to make a profit from this music scene  (thats now become trendy again ) that we love and has been apart of our lives forever without them giving a flying fcuk because it's seen as trendy to mention northern soul in whatever circles they mix in and to have certain records to show off to their friends.

Steve 

[Frankie Crocker]

50 minutes ago, Paul shirley said:

Spot on steve , at one time you saved and went without to buy the tough stuff now it’s dominated by the super rich , 

Sure, there’s someone out there beating us all to the big ticket items. Lost track of the rarities that have gone to a very rich bidder or bidders in the last year or so. If I had the money, I would do the same, just fritter it away on more expensive records.

There’s no con involved. Record prices rise due to increased demand relative to shrinking supply. No longer can we con the US dealers to part with their records for paltry sums. Only the dim end up being conned. Everyone makes mistakes buying records but it’s not a con unless you buy bootlegs in the belief they are originals.

[Guest Shufflin]

quite a few of the records I've got recently have been suggested by members on here via the audio list threads, and after getting them the value went up or they sold out (Fred Hughes/Delfonics among lots of others)

still bargains out there

[Prophonics 2029]

My wages were £16.50 a week in 1978 I paid £18.00 for a Gia Mateo I think that was the most I ever paid then when I got a Tangeers issue £8.00 a Majestics Linda demo £12.00. 

It's always been fun. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Prophonics 2029

[Frankie Crocker]

On 10/09/2019 at 22:13, Prophonics 2029 said:

My wages were £16.50 a week in 1978 I paid £18.00 for a Gia Mateo I think that was the most I ever paid then when I got a Tangeers issue £8.00 a Majestics Linda demo £12.00. 

It's always been fun. 

Ah, but what did you pay for Cecil Washington on Prophonics?

[Stephen Houghton]

If you think that you buy lots of things, houses, cars etc etc. Or even have a flutter on the lottery or horses, would you like a profit or a loss, see my point 

[Gazoor]

On 16/02/2017 at 00:31, Illusive said:

Quite simply "No" it's not Malcolm.

The perogative to buy or not to buy is everyone's with cash in their pocket.

I'm sure we've all seen records for sale way above what we'd be prepared to pay and have thought the same as you did earlier today. Bemused or infuriated. But occasionally I admit to buying an overpriced 45 as the desire to own it has been overwhelming and robbed me of my sanity.

How many people buy designer clothes for exorbitant prices? Pay daft prices for bottles of wine? Go to swanky restaurants and pay ten times the price of the real value of the meal. Pay £600 plus for the latest iPhone. Throw their wages away at the bookies one week, and do the same again the next. Do they have critics too? Of course they do.  It's all relative, as is every transaction that ever occurred. Self control, addiction, cash to burn, a need to impress, etc etc. We all make choices.

We're all flawed. We all desire things we haven't got and make silly choices. That's the nature of human beings. 

As it also is for some to hold out for a minty copy at a rock bottom price even if it takes fifteen years to find it.

Sure some sellers are taking advantage of less well informed buyers, but that's the nature of business. If you thought you could sell or trade you're current car for twice its value, I'm pretty sure you would. Why sell for 5 if you can get 10!

How many people that want to own a record have the patience and will power to wait until one comes around at the right price? Not all of em that's for sure and this is what sellers hope for, especially those on eBay.

If I hear something new that I love, or a reactivated disc that blows me away it goes to the top of my immediate wants list. If it comes up for sale soon thereafter, am I more likely to pay over the odds. Probably if I want it badly enough and will I accept a poorer quality disc than I want? Yes.

The current demand for some records is driving the prices up, whilst others are definitely bottoming out, as they're not in vogue. Grab the out of favour ones whilst you can I'd say if you're a collector and purveyor of fine music.

Theres no rhyme or reason to collecting really in my view. It's a self gratifying and selfish activity and I've often thought it's probably more trouble than it's worth when I've been on a downer. Arguments about over spending too numerous to recall, and on reflection, me acting bang out of order, but an addiction is hard to break and not always everything it's cracked out to be.

And then I hear the music drifting out of the speakers. Filling me with that feeling only soul music can do, and I think fuck it, that's what it's about.

The End. 

Gav

Like it Gav, a bit late to the thread, 3yrs. but yeah I agree,on here 'cos I'm mooching about T'internet buying tunes, sometimes if my bid is highest etc.    tumes,

[Gazoor]

On 11/02/2019 at 18:02, Robbk said:

During the 1960s through 1980s, the market for DooWop/Old R&B records rose steadily, as the youthful fans of that music became middle-aged, and prosperous in their work, and could afford to bid up the prices.  But, during the early 2000s, as those fans died off, or became too old to care, or needed the money for health care costs, the market prices started a precipitous fall, that has excelerated with each passing year.  Fairly rare records i saw priced in the thousands can now be bought for $100 or $200, and many that were  in the several hundreds can be bought for less than $75, or even $50.  That will also happen to Northern Soul records, eventually.

I thought that in the late 90's early 2000's Robb.  All the people at Niters were the same - all looking for the same stuff and a limited - to me in the UK, market to sell to . .. sold a lot o' tunes in 2003, because the scene looked like it was done..  many I couldn't get prices on as I'd not seen them for sale, but also bought them cheap from rooting about everywhere, or from Dave and Rod in Manchester UK and buying since I was 14 - now 56, ... for way below their then market value.. let alone NOW!!!!    Ah well - went to Disney with the kids for 3weeks, bought a car etc. etc. got more than I paid for them, but will never have them again - especially ALL near mint.  So if yer sellin' make sure to pick the correct time...  oh and yes I'm collecting again!!!  Never stopped  

[Gazoor]

On 11/02/2019 at 17:15, Guest Shufflin said:

supply and demand, that's all it is

I agree with those who expect a 'bust' situation at some point in the future, all those records sat in the collections of the infirm/very old/dead will be sold off and the market won't be there like it was before

Jeanette, for example, how is that a £1000 record, weren't there loads of copies for 50p in bargain bins back in the day ??

Used to buy and sell these regularly .. long time ago though.. bought one from Andy Dyson at one of the Hyde All-Niters, run by Mark (Bicknall) for £20/25 and flogged it same night for £45.. Andy probably got it from the US for pennies - so he was happy and so was I.. never had loads of these probably sold 6 or so and one with my collection when that went.  I had with a red coloured rams head within the pattern of multiple rams on the label - mid-right I think.. never saw another one like this, but sold it at the time as it had marks n it.. played well, but it wasn't anywhere near mint - my VG.. others VG++ perhaps ??  ... don't get me on to UK sellers gradings!!!!! ...   

Edited March 28, 2020 by Gazoor