Expert Cleaning Help Needed For Acetates

[Pete S]

I need a bit of expert help in cleaning if possible - I have received these 60's acetates and they have been in storage for decades and have consequently got covered in mould and goodness knows what else. Can anyone suggest ways of cleaning these? I don't want to get any cleaning products on the labels though. There are some incredible rarities by the likes of Cream, The Cheynes, The Action, The Small Faces, The Sands etc.

[Guest 1 huskyvan]

Copydex glue paint it on wait for it to dry and peel it off 

[Amsterdam Russ]

Give them a wipe with a damp, lint-free cloth or the non-abrasive side of a washing-up sponge using tepid water. Distilled water's often been suggested, but I think having the water slightly warm helps dissolve the grime.

[Pga1]

Hiya pete, personally I would be very wary of using any cleaning products. Why not some warm water and plenty of soft clean cloths for starters.   Cheers

[Liamgp]

Better check what won't damage the lacquer before proceeding. I had an acetate from the 60s and, looking around, found this advice:

DO NOT CLEAN these discs unless you have the knowledge, experience, and tools. Special chemistry, cleaning fluids, and equipment are needed to remove contamination as well as remove a white waxy substance or dust that forms on these discs with age called Palmitic Acid. Get trained or enlist a professional who knows how to clean these fragile discs.

DO NOT CLEAN SHELLAC OR VINYL DISCS with the same cleaning solutions as for transcription discs.

DO NOT CLEAN DISCS WITH DELAMINATION, BUBBLED OR CRACKED LAMINATE. Any exposure to water will rapidly exacerbate the delamination or cause delamination. At most, spot clean areas of contamination that are not delaminated, bubbled, or cracked.

DO NOT CLEAN DISCS ON A FIBER SUBSTRATE in the same way as glass or metal substrates. The fiber will expand and damage the laminate. At most, a moist but not wet brush can be used, and the moisture should be rapidly removed with a vacuum-style record cleaning machine like the Kieth Monks. Consider only spot cleaning areas of contamination that are not delaminated or cracked.

 

https://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Disc_Transcription.htm

Edited March 6, 2017 by LiamGP

[Pete S]

Blimey this is going to be tricky!

[Soulfinger]

Did they stop making that Fairy stuff you used to recommend Pete?

[Pete S]

Just now, Soulfinger said:

Did they stop making that Fairy stuff you used to recommend Pete?

I was thinking it might need something a bit stronger than the usual washing up liquid and warm water, someone suggested white vinegar?

[Liamgp]

6 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Blimey this is going to be tricky!

You use some sort of ammonia solution to clean them as I recall.

[Soulfinger]

2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I was thinking it might need something a bit stronger than the usual washing up liquid and warm water, someone suggested white vinegar?

I didn't mean washing up liquid, I'm dredging it up from somewhere, but I vaguely remember successfully cleaning some particularly filthy car boot finds with some kitchen cleaning product you recommended. I'd tried the PVA glue thing without success. I thought it was fairy but maybe not.

[Liamgp]

Just now, Soulfinger said:

I didn't mean washing up liquid, I'm dredging it up from somewhere, but I vaguely remember successfully cleaning some particularly filthy car boot finds with some kitchen cleaning product you recommended. I'd tried the PVA glue thing without success. I thought it was fairy but maybe not.

Remember they aren't vinyl discs though. The lacquer is much more fragile.

[Pete S]

I've just cleaned this using a Dettol anti bacterial wipe then rinsed off with water

[Simon T]

12 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I've just cleaned this using a Dettol anti bacterial wipe then rinsed off with water

According to their data sheet, they contain ethanol which I would avoid getting onto an acetate. Try a weak solution of Stardrops. Apply with a paint pad and dry off with a slightly damp and then dry microfibre cloths. If you are feeling brave you can always try a couple of dent pullers / glass lifter suction cups to protect the labels.

[Simon T]

34 minutes ago, LiamGP said:

Remember they aren't vinyl discs though. The lacquer is much more fragile.

If you feel you do need to 'scrub'  then try using a baby's silicon tooth brush.

[Ian Stacey]

 hi Pete use PVA  it will all just peel off I know its sounds a drastic way but the results are incredible .couple mm depth use a soft bank card to spread avoiding the label leave for 20 hrs. maybe a bit less then peel off it should come off in one peel the just gently clean with sterile water &  a very soft cloth .Use decorators PVA  have just clean forty old ska records that where covered in mould as well all have cleaned up well all now play some are VG standard now

[Steve S 60]

1 hour ago, LiamGP said:

Better check what won't damage the lacquer before proceeding. I had an acetate from the 60s and, looking around, found this advice:

DO NOT CLEAN these discs unless you have the knowledge, experience, and tools. Special chemistry, cleaning fluids, and equipment are needed to remove contamination as well as remove a white waxy substance or dust that forms on these discs with age called Palmitic Acid. Get trained or enlist a professional who knows how to clean these fragile discs.

DO NOT CLEAN SHELLAC OR VINYL DISCS with the same cleaning solutions as for transcription discs.

DO NOT CLEAN DISCS WITH DELAMINATION, BUBBLED OR CRACKED LAMINATE. Any exposure to water will rapidly exacerbate the delamination or cause delamination. At most, spot clean areas of contamination that are not delaminated, bubbled, or cracked.

DO NOT CLEAN DISCS ON A FIBER SUBSTRATE in the same way as glass or metal substrates. The fiber will expand and damage the laminate. At most, a moist but not wet brush can be used, and the moisture should be rapidly removed with a vacuum-style record cleaning machine like the Kieth Monks. Consider only spot cleaning areas of contamination that are not delaminated or cracked.

 

https://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Disc_Transcription.htm

So the wire brush and Dettol is best avoided? 

[Woodbutcher]

26 minutes ago, redditchcrew said:

 hi Pete use PVA  it will all just peel off I know its sounds a drastic way but the results are incredible .couple mm depth use a soft bank card to spread avoiding the label leave for 20 hrs. maybe a bit less then peel off it should come off in one peel the just gently clean with sterile water &  a very soft cloth .Use decorators PVA  have just clean forty old ska records that where covered in mould as well all have cleaned up well all now play some are VG standard now

I would say this is a sure-fire way of destroying an acetate , the bond between the lacquer and the metal is not strong enough to withstand the use of PVA which will bond too strongly to the lacquer more than likely removing the thin layer along with the dirt and mould , especially if there is any microscopic debonding already occuring ... which in the case of the discs shown is very likely.

Weak soap solution using cold water ( warm water will soften the lacquer ) and a very gentle touch is the way to go.

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with all the comments stating that PVA should absolutely not be used on an acetate. Destruction awaits!!

[Ian Stacey]

1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

I would say this is a sure-fire way of destroying an acetate , the bond between the lacquer and the metal is not strong enough to withstand the use of PVA which will bond too strongly to the lacquer more than likely removing the thin layer along with the dirt and mould , especially if there is any microscopic debonding already occuring ... which in the case of the discs shown is very likely.

Weak soap solution using cold water ( warm water will soften the lacquer ) and a very gentle touch is the way to go.

 

   strange it never ever has happened to the emi discs that I have done . Is this from experience or a calculated guess thats to both of you who think this  and you both did not respond to husktyvan advice of copydex glue  why is that  Younger  .

[Amsterdam Russ]

45 minutes ago, redditchcrew said:

   strange it never ever has happened to the emi discs that I have done . Is this from experience or a calculated guess thats to both of you who think this  and you both did not respond to husktyvan advice of copydex glue  why is that  Younger  .

I've used PVA many times to clean records and know how much effort the layer of dried glue needs to be pulled away from the surface. I also have a number of acetates in varying condition (including some that are flaking) and it's immediately obvious that using the same glue treatment on them would be damaging in the extreme. 

Emidiscs do appear to be quite resilient when compared to many brands of acetates from the US, but there's no way I'd slap a load of glue on one. As for copydex, I don't know that product so didn't comment. At the end of the day though, if it's like PVA I'd be equally as wary. 

Have you - or anyone else - got any before and after pics and/or sound files of acetates onto which PVA has been poured?

[SOULMAN62]

Cleaning a shellac disc on youtube, the company is based in essex

Edited March 7, 2017 by SOULMAN62

[Ian Stacey]

9 hours ago, Russell Gilbert said:

I've used PVA many times to clean records and know how much effort the layer of dried glue needs to be pulled away from the surface. I also have a number of acetates in varying condition (including some that are flaking) and it's immediately obvious that using the same glue treatment on them would be damaging in the extreme. 

Emidiscs do appear to be quite resilient when compared to many brands of acetates from the US, but there's no way I'd slap a load of glue on one. As for copydex, I don't know that product so didn't comment. At the end of the day though, if it's like PVA I'd be equally as wary. 

Have you - or anyone else - got any before and after pics and/or sound files of acetates onto which PVA has been poured?

to pull as you have describe it is not quite right it peels away very very easily if you noticed I did say decorators PVA which has a lot of natural gum in it as for Slapping it on was not quite what I had in mind as I used a very soft plastic Dutch bank card it came on the disc I did in Holland very easily as it was a good twenty years I had not thought that I would have to prove this so unfortunately I did not film it but the next one I come across that wil be the first thing I would do & I will film it just so you can see .Oh by the way the also sell copdex in Holland at most art shops  

[Amsterdam Russ]

36 minutes ago, redditchcrew said:

to pull as you have describe it is not quite right it peels away very very easily if you noticed I did say decorators PVA which has a lot of natural gum in it as for Slapping it on was not quite what I had in mind as I used a very soft plastic Dutch bank card it came on the disc I did in Holland very easily as it was a good twenty years I had not thought that I would have to prove this so unfortunately I did not film it but the next one I come across that wil be the first thing I would do & I will film it just so you can see .Oh by the way the also sell copdex in Holland at most art shops  

As said, I've used PVA to clean records many times and will continue to do so where thought appropriate. While the process of lifting the solidified glue layer is peeling, it does require some amount of pulling. Even this, to my mind, could all too easily lift the fragile layer of lacquer from the metal base. Herewith a pic of some 45s that I'd given the glue treatment...

I ask if you or anyone else has images/sound files of acetates being cleaned with wood glue so that we might all benefit from seeing/hearing the results as I'm not alone in believing it would be a destructive process. Have you got an acetate you could slather in glue for the sake of an experiment, perhaps? Anyone else prepared to give it a go? I'm not, but I'm happy to be convinced...

[Kevinkent]

3 hours ago, SOULMAN62 said:

Cleaning a shellac disc on youtube, the company is based in essex

Very nice clip of a comparatively clean disc going through the process. Reminded me of an automated car wash. Couldn't see this being suitable for discs as bad as the ones Pete has shown.

- Kev

[dthedrug]

HI ALL.....My life!  Just logged onto SOULSOURCE only to find this HORROR THREAD,  I started collecting back in 1967, since then I have tried many ways of improving the condition of my finds, I use to have a strong belief that records needed improving on, for example I must of tried 50 ways to put a center back into a NOC 45, only to come to the decision not to both especially .with DEMO 45, The fact of the matter the center is part of the records history, the center removed by the reviewer of the disc, and it is best to leave alone as we all can spot the fake center (I HOPE).

I would suggest to you all learn about cleaning from someone who knows about restoration, don;t try & do it yourself, just learn how to look after records not how to restore them as you will spoil the at a rate of 20 to 1.

Acetates have a different plastic coated than your normal 45, and every company use differs machines to make the acetate, 

So my findings are never ever try and restore acceletates unless you want to ruin them, PLEASE DON'T WRECK RARE RECORDS. GIVE THEM TO ME NOT THE DUSTBIN. KTF

[Rotherham Soul]

DEpending on value rarity you could use these guys

https://www.facebook.com/cuttingcorp/

oops here's the link to the video

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by rotherham soul