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Historical (Dave Godin) question - help needed

Posted

I have just read a paper that challenges the myth that Dave Godin originated the Term Northern Soul in 1970 or 1971 as is often stated in accounts such as the one below.

"The phrase "Northern soul" emanated from the record shop Soul City in Covent Garden, London, which was run by journalist Dave Godin.[3]It was first publicly used in Godin's weekly column in Blues & Soul magazine in June 1970.[4]" 

 

The article I just read says that he didn't use it until 1973 

Question:   Does anyone have a copy of anything before 1973 where Godin used the term Northern Soul?

 

Thanks

 

Paul-S

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Posted (edited)

The term Northern Soul was used to describe the brassy UK soul bands covering US soul records.It was used for the St Louis Union first and ads were put in some mags as the Northern Soul sound.There was a full page article in the R&B Scene mag that was all about the "northern scene" and the music and bands around it but the words soul was not used.It was used in ads for  Harlem Johns Reshuffle who were covering Looking For A Fox, That Driving Beat etc in 69 and were from Oldham and are pictured on the Wigan Casino stage on the back of their lp. This was all before Dave Godin used it in print.

Harlem-John-Reshuffle-ad.jpg

ST LOUIS.jpg

Edited by wiggyflat

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Posted

 

above was the first stop and does have the term 'northern soul', but guess the first example seen could be more geographical based, maybe better examples in this or the other bits by him on site will show,  but times against me right now

just search articles feature for godin and you should get them all

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Posted (edited)

I used to visit the Soul City record shop on trips to London in May 67 and on thru 68. When Dave G heard a northern accent (like my Yorks un), he'd say .. you'll be interested in this stuff & bring out a special box of 45's. By early 68, amongst the import 45's in his box were issue copies of Tobi Legend "Time Will Pass You By". He'd pull that particular single out & spin it as it was a real big fave of his. Needless to say, with his encouragment, I parted with my 15/- (or whatever the exact price was) & bought a copy + some more dance stuff before moving on to other nearby rekkid shops. Each time I returned to his shop & he heard the accent agin, he'd say ... you'll want a copy of this & try to force another issue copy of Tobi Legend onto me. Being a canny Yorks lad, I made sure he didn't get another 15/- out of me for a 2nd copy !!!  

Soul City also had a big mail order clientele & so put out a small catalogue that was sent out to folk in the north & elsewhere. I'd write off for stuff and it was always for 45's that were being played in the Yorks / Lancs soul clubs at the time. So again, he knew the lads from up north were chasing different rekkids to the London / southern soulies. So the story about him using the term (or knowing lads from the north were into a different style of soul) go back to at least 1967 to my personal knowledge. As Soul City record shop closed down in late 69, I'm sure in the 2+ years between my 1st visit & the shop closing, he would have actually said ... this lot are from Yorkshire / Lancashire, they'll be interested in the box of northern soul singles. I cant actually recall him using the exact term in my presence back in 67/ 68 but have no doubt that he would have said it at the time.

I very much doubt that his useage of the term had any connection at all to the description used by UK bands playing live soul covers at that time.

SoulCityRecCat.jpg

Edited by Roburt

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Posted (edited)

I think Neil Rushton's book has an interview with the son of an employee/partner of Godin, who worked in Soul City. He claims it was his father who coined the term, NOT Godin.

As they say, "success has a thousand fathers.....etc"

Edited by snakepit

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Posted

I don't have Neil's book so have no idea of the name of the person he talked with / about. But the only regular staff in Soul City shop I recall were Dave Godin, David Nathan, Sylvia & Rob Blackmore. So I guess it had to be one of those other three .... 

SoulCityRecShopMont.jpg

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Posted

Page 15..

"My dad ' Cliff Clifford'..(Saturday helper) had a brainwave and scrawled 'Northern Soul' on the boxes.....that moment of inspiration started it all off "

Paul Clifford

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Posted
22 hours ago, wiggyflat said:

The term Northern Soul was used to describe the brassy UK soul bands covering US soul records.It was used for the St Louis Union first and ads were put in some mags as the Northern Soul sound.There was a full page article in the R&B Scene mag that was all about the "northern scene" and the music and bands around it but the words soul was not used.It was used in ads for  Harlem Johns Reshuffle who were covering Looking For A Fox, That Driving Beat etc in 69 and were from Oldham and are pictured on the Wigan Casino stage on the back of their lp. This was all before Dave Godin used it in print.

Harlem-John-Reshuffle-ad.jpg

ST LOUIS.jpg

Thanks for the information...

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Posted
20 hours ago, mike said:

 

above was the first stop and does have the term 'northern soul', but guess the first example seen could be more geographical based, maybe better examples in this or the other bits by him on site will show,  but times against me right now

just search articles feature for godin and you should get them all

Thanks Mike..

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Posted
48 minutes ago, snakepit said:

Page 15..

"My dad ' Cliff Clifford'..(Saturday helper) had a brainwave and scrawled 'Northern Soul' on the boxes.....that moment of inspiration started it all off "

Paul Clifford

Hi Paul, any idea when this was (roughly)? cheers Paul-s

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Posted

Paul-s

I'm quoting Paul Clifford....I'm not Paul Clifford

No date supplied in interview

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Posted
4 hours ago, paul-s said:

Hi Paul, any idea when this was (roughly)? cheers Paul-s

I have no idea when this was BUT Soul City record shop shut in late 69 (same time the label collapsed). The exact date was detailed in B&S at the time the shop closed. 

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Posted

:hatsoff2:HI ALL "NORTHERN SOUL, RIGHT ON NOW & KEEP THE FAITH" Well Dave ended his column with KTF for the first time in Blues & Soul issue #23 November 1969 the last monthly to be issued,  Now I mention this as a good example of how you should look at the how Dave used the descriptive words to accuretley  sum up people who collected 6ts Rare Soul that had been deleted, and USA 45s that were only available at the SOUL CITY shop, It's how he used the term Northern Soul that counts, in the same way he ended his column with KTF, I know of no other person to use that term to finish a write up on SOUL music or any other music,  as to the poster it refers to a Northern group coming down South playing to a audience use to having many top R&B groups play at the RICY TICK CLUB that held some of their GIGs in the town,  

To conclude I tried to get Pete Smith to claim ownership of the words Beat Ballard which he used to describe Mid Tempo soul on WIKIPEDIA, now I know the term was used as early as the 1920s, but it was Pete's write ups in Beatin Rhythm  that I first saw the term written in a sentence to describe a record review, now i am aware that i am be pedantic but i think that I may be right, if not I don't really care, RIGHT ON NOW & KEEP THE FAITH,  Dave K  

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