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Chris Turnbull

Late 70's Jazz Funk Scene

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On 6 de febrero de 2018 at 10:38, Chris Turnbull said:

My favorite track from the Richard Tee album "Natural Ingredients", "Us"

And another jazz - funk one from the late 70's favorite of mine, from Hancock's "Mr. Hands" LP

 

P.D.: The vocals on the Le Pamplemouse track seems by The Jones Girls

Edited by josep manuel concernau robles

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....Actually, there was quite a lot of jazz funk influence going on in the US TV show music world at the time. You'd have had to be a serious dancer to keep up with this killer. Records like this are probably the reason why my knees are fucked these days!

 

And of course, the original. Can you imagine switching the telly on now and a show coming on with such an incredible bespoke theme?

 

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5 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

....Actually, there was quite a lot of jazz funk influence going on in the US TV show music world at the time. You'd have had to be a serious dancer to keep up with this killer. Records like this are probably the reason why my knees are fucked these days!

Love the Ron Carter - great stuff. You are right with the US TV connection, loads of mid 70's US shows seemed to have themes like that

Funnily enough in a similar way, if I ever play The Invitations 'Look on the good side' the intro where the band kick in makes my missus think Dynasty is coming on 

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Just out of interest was there a US club / dance scene for all this stuff in the mid-late 70's, over and above what would have been played in mainstream discos?

Otherwise was it just mainly bought to play at home?

Never occurred to me before - just a vast output of JF type tunes in the US - who was buying them there?

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The first joint northern and jazz funk events I went to were at the Cleethorpes WG.

It seemed normal to float in and out of each room.

The last venue I went to was in Sheffield, maybe Tiffany's?  By which time East was East and West was West! Not much mixing and the music had gone bilateral!

Northern obviously thrived, even if adopting the best of jazz funk and perhaps leaving the worst of Northern behind, but has jazz funk simply morphed into Modern?

I'm sure promoters did not want to lose any punters if possible.

Ed

 

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3 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

The first joint northern and jazz funk events I went to were at the Cleethorpes WG.

It seemed normal to float in and out of each room.

The last venue I went to was in Sheffield, maybe Tiffany's?  By which time East was East and West was West! Not much mixing and the music had gone bilateral!

Northern obviously thrived, even if adopting the best of jazz funk and perhaps leaving the worst of Northern behind, but has jazz funk simply morphed into Modern?

I'm sure promoters did not want to lose any punters if possible.

Ed

Ed, not sure if you were replying to my post above but I was meaning was there a recognised club scene in the USA for jazz funk over and above what would have been played in mainstream discos 

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12 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

....Actually, there was quite a lot of jazz funk influence going on in the US TV show music world at the time. You'd have had to be a serious dancer to keep up with this killer. Records like this are probably the reason why my knees are fucked these days!

 

Funny you should say that - this has always struck me as great jazz funk in its own right, by film composer Jerry Fielding for Clint Eastwood's "The Enforcer":

 

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12 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Don't suppose this ever got played but deffo jazz funk and a terrific record. Released as the theme to the TV version of 'Planet of the Apes' (which it actually wasn't)..

 

 

Brilliant tune (apart from the ape noises) - typical Lalo Schifrin 70s soundtrack music.

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There was a time when, apart from my other two devotions, Philly and Chicago Symphonic Soul, I was also a kind of "devoted" of the CTI / Kuddu label (CTI All - Stars live albums, Milt Jackson, Deodato, Lalo Schifrin's "Black Widow", Stanley Turrentine, Esther Phillips, George Benson,...). I think this label was seminal in the jazz - funk field.

From these years, here's a track that captivated me (more than the original done by The Stylistics):

 

Edited by josep manuel concernau robles

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5 hours ago, tomangoes said:

The first joint northern and jazz funk events I went to were at the Cleethorpes WG.

It seemed normal to float in and out of each room.

The last venue I went to was in Sheffield, maybe Tiffany's?  By which time East was East and West was West! Not much mixing and the music had gone bilateral!

Northern obviously thrived, even if adopting the best of jazz funk and perhaps leaving the worst of Northern behind, but has jazz funk simply morphed into Modern?

I'm sure promoters did not want to lose any punters if possible.

Ed

 

I can't claim any expertise here, just a very limited experience, but I think you've hit the nail on the head re morphing into modern. Earlier posts here have highlighted how the likes of Chris Hill and Robbie Vincent enjoyed their time of supremacy but by the end of the 80s the whole acid house and rave scene was cutting into what was jazz funk. Many JF jocks didn't go along with this, while others like Pete Tong basically reinvented themselves. Some northern jocks also went the house route, although the more soulful stuff. I think it's possible to identify a reconfiguration of the scenes in which JF became modern, northern stayed northern, with a crossover bridge between the two, while the house scene developed mostly independently, but with a certain overlap with modern. But there are likely to be regional variations here - for example I think the London/SE scene was much more fluid than elsewhere, but there will be people here better qualified to say so.

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In the latest issue of "Soul Survivors" magazine there's an excellent interview with original west London club Crackers dj Mark Roman, who was resident there from 73 to 76. In addition to tunes like the Brecker Brothers above he was also playing other tracks that would become JF scene standards, as well as some others that remain more connoisseurs' picks, such as Eddie Drennon and BBS Unlimited: 

 

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On 2/12/2018 at 09:46, Mickey Finn said:

Don't think we've mentioned the Brecker Brothers yet - this was a big Greg Edwards play:

 

David Sanborn seemed to be on everything like this in those days.  This is the same year he played on Bowie's Young Americans album, how funny it seemed to us in the UK back then to see pop/rock god David Bowie on the US Soul Train TV show.

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5 hours ago, woolie mark said:

David Sanborn seemed to be on everything like this in those days.  This is the same year he played on Bowie's Young Americans album, how funny it seemed to us in the UK back then to see pop/rock god David Bowie on the US Soul Train TV show.

Don't remember where I read that David Sanborn played the very good part of sax on Gil Scott-Heron' "The Bottle" cover by Joe Bataan on Salsoul (is uncredited). I have the self titled CD reissued on GRP (originally published in 1976) and another Sanborn album "Songs From The Night Before" and one of my all-time jazz - funk - fusion favorite albums, "Casino Lights", record live at Montreaus jazz festival by VV. AA. contains "Love Is Not Enough" (an OST track) and "Hideaway" with incredible sax by him and incredible bass line and solo by Marcus Miller.

 

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Re Joe Bataan and Sanborn: http://ukvibe.org/interviews/2009-interviews/joe-bataan/ 

In 1984 Sanborn released a live studio album, "Straight from the heart" which opened with "Hideaway", and also featured this:

I walked into a record shop where side A of this brand new release was playing and thus began a complete reorientation of my musical taste - never looked back.

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This was originally recorded by James Wells but the record company turned it down due to his hyperactive vocals ... a shame, but the Eastbound Expressway version was a club and chart hit:

 

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This was very big in the clubs, Radio Luxembourg hammered it and it made the charts - Tony Rallo and the Midnite Band, aka Alec Costandinos:

 

Edited by Mickey Finn

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2 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

Shameful! Must admit I get them confused with Seawind, but this is certainly a big classic and belongs here:

 

I have had Sea Level group "tagged" as a jazz - fusion band because I have hear very poor from this band (i.e. "Tidal Wave" that I have in a an old domestical cassette comp. with Crusaders, Return To Forever, etc.). I also have had serious confusion about those similar names: Sea level, Sea Wind, WindJammers,... and there was also the "bands" (BB & Q Band, SOS BAND, AVenue B Boogie Band),... and Kwick, Switch,... so many similar names to remind correctly who is who!

Here's a Jazz Funk number from this era that have a certain reminiscence from "Do It anyway You Wanna", a production by the drummer - band leader of Fat Larry's Band, Larry James: "Everybody's Singing Love Songs" by Sweet Thunder (those "second division" Phlly Sound published by Philly World and WMOT, Cashmere, Fusion Band, Major Harris,... so many good and underrated soul and funk music!)

 

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On 09/02/2018 at 14:46, Mickey Finn said:

I can't claim any expertise here, just a very limited experience, but I think you've hit the nail on the head re morphing into modern. Earlier posts here have highlighted how the likes of Chris Hill and Robbie Vincent enjoyed their time of supremacy but by the end of the 80s the whole acid house and rave scene was cutting into what was jazz funk. Many JF jocks didn't go along with this, while others like Pete Tong basically reinvented themselves. Some northern jocks also went the house route, although the more soulful stuff. I think it's possible to identify a reconfiguration of the scenes in which JF became modern, northern stayed northern, with a crossover bridge between the two, while the house scene developed mostly independently, but with a certain overlap with modern. But there are likely to be regional variations here - for example I think the London/SE scene was much more fluid than elsewhere, but there will be people here better qualified to say so.

Pretty well put that, rampling and oakenfold jumped ship from jf at a similar point but its well documented, see the liner notes to the first dj international comp, that the north and Midlands were well on the house thing before London. You also have to figure rare groove and acid jazz Into the linage. 

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Hi, Waterfall_manc,

This track sounds very similar to Beggar & Co. / Light Of The World. The British Jazz - Funk scene from these years have, IMHO, very good horn sections and, specially, very good trumpet players, as the case of my favorite british act, Incognito.

Two ones from this same period to comes now to my mind and were on my turntable every day along years, my favorite track from Donald Byrd album "...and 125th Street, N.Y.C.", the ballad - mid tempo "Veronica" and a super funky track, writed by Bunny Sigler, "Tripin' Out" by Curtis Mayfiel from his album "And Here's... Something To Believe In" (curiously tboth albums have amazing covers illustrations by the great Ernie Barnes).

 

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On 2/9/2018 at 06:47, Chris Turnbull said:

Just out of interest was there a US club / dance scene for all this stuff in the mid-late 70's, over and above what would have been played in mainstream discos?

Otherwise was it just mainly bought to play at home?

Never occurred to me before - just a vast output of JF type tunes in the US - who was buying them there?

Yes and no. It was jazzers trying to reconnect with a younger audience. Miles Davis was quite explicit about this. When he went electric and funky he was trying re-engage young black kids with jazz and shake off the chinstroking market. But I think they sold well to the hi-fi enthusiast market.

There was no dedicated US scene as such but these sort of records were a massive part and influence on 70s soul in general and the underground US scene that led to disco...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Saves-Day-American-1970-1979/dp/0822331985

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Yes and no. It was jazzers trying to reconnect with a younger audience. Miles Davis was quite explicit about this. When he went electric and funky he was trying re-engage young black kids with jazz and shake off the chinstroking market. But I think they sold well to the hi-fi enthusiast market.

There was no dedicated US scene as such but these sort of records were a massive part and influence on 70s soul in general and the underground US scene that led to disco...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Saves-Day-American-1970-1979/dp/0822331985

 

 

 

Miles Davis was already concerned about this in the mid 60s when for some reason Charles Lloyd was popular with teenagers. That came and went, but the issue of how to engage youth never did for Miles. At a different end of the scale Creed Taylor's efforts to popularise jazz also made their mark, with various ex-Blue Note people and some relatively new names came together to put together what is now acknowledged as a significant catalogue of work. It also got the majors like Warners and Columbia to invest in fusion and even more acoustic jazz, just as Blue Note "hit a new note" with the Mizell Bros productions in 70s.

Promoters like Bill Graham were also putting together concerts that featured varied line-ups similar to Woodstock. Davis tells a (not for him) funny story about refusing to warm up for a "sorry ass mother f?&"€r" like Steve Miller on one of Graham's tickets.

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New records played in 1975, like the one above...............seem a million miles away from new records played 4 or 5 years later., as featured a few comments earlier

Ed

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A combination of memory and tenacious googling :lol:

Al Matthews was for me at the time essential Saturday night listening on Radio 1 (!) and so an early education. It seems he's living in Spain these days and auctioned off his record collection about 18 months ago in Barcelona. I wasn't aware of his acting credits until he appeared as one of the main stars in Ian McShane's very enjoyable mid-90s "Soul Survivors" tv comedy drama, along with Isaac Hayes, Antonio Fargas, Taurean Blacque (of Hill St Blues) and Margi Clarke. His character in the "Aliens" movie seems to have attracted a cult following. He's someone who deserves to be better remembered for his contributions to the UK soul scene.

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7 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

Is there anyone here who remembers when Radio 1's Al Matthews along with Hi Tension showed up at the Wigan Casino?

http://www.radiorewind.co.uk/sounds/discobatin2.mp3

That might count as evidence of how fluid or even non-existent the boundaries were at one stage.

http://www.radiorewind.co.uk/radio1/al_matthews_page.htm

That says it was a Wednesday night though, so just a regular night, though not one of the allnighters.

 

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On 2/12/2018 at 12:00, josep manuel concernau robles said:

As I have said on the treaty "If You are DJ'in for Yourself", this is one of my Brainstorm favorites because the Belita Woods vocals. She have a vocal register in the mould of Candi Staton so soulful and sexy!

Love Brainstorm. Btw Deon Estus from the group later became the bass player for Wham! and collaborated extensively with George Michael throughout his career!

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On 2/20/2018 at 16:42, geeselad said:

Pretty well put that, rampling and oakenfold jumped ship from jf at a similar point but its well documented, see the liner notes to the first dj international comp, that the north and Midlands were well on the house thing before London. You also have to figure rare groove and acid jazz Into the linage. 

Correct. Here we have jazz dancers in Manchester cutting shapes to house music in 1986:

 

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14 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

At a different end of the scale Creed Taylor's efforts to popularise jazz also made their mark, with various ex-Blue Note people and some relatively new names came together to put together what is now acknowledged as a significant catalogue of work.

Yes. And actually it was Herb Alpert and A&M Records that gave him the freedom to do that. A&M was run along different lines to other major labels at the time. Buoyed up by Alpert and Carpenters sales, they tried to put out stuff they thought was high quality and aimed at adults rather than make a fast buck.

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9 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Love Brainstorm. Btw Deon Estus from the group later became the bass player for Wham! and collaborated extensively with George Michael throughout his career!

He also turns up on a later Harvey Mason album for Arista, but I've always loved this, from 1989 - should have been a massive hit:

 

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10 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Yes. And actually it was Herb Alpert and A&M Records that gave him the freedom to do that. A&M was run along different lines to other major labels at the time. Buoyed up by Alpert and Carpenters sales, they tried to put out stuff they thought was high quality and aimed at adults rather than make a fast buck.

That explains the rapid unsigning of the Sex Pistols! Mr Lydon is still upset about that, as he expletes in his latest book (which is worth a read, btw). Would also explain the support given to Brenda Russell, who never fit into any industry categories. And this A&M gem has just grown in stature over time - Howard Johnson:

 

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