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Silky Hargraves


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2 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

I don't get it, most testimony I read a while ago from that Detroit gang talked about a white guy and he certainly sounds like one. No pictures popped-up to this day as far as I know. And I'd love to see one since I own and love all his records from his long discography... :lol:

Betty Lavette showed me a photograph of Silky as she knew him very well.

Please be assured he was African American.

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35 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

I don't get it, most testimony I read a while ago from that Detroit gang talked about a white guy and he certainly sounds like one. No pictures popped-up to this day as far as I know. And I'd love to see one since I own and love all his records from his long discography... :lol:

That's what made me ask.

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8 minutes ago, Soul-Slider said:

That's what made me ask.

I did a lot of finally dreaded G**gl search a while ago and only found stories about the white guy hanging with his mates; JJ Barnes, Cody Black, Steve Mancha & Co. in the studios and never a picture was shown. Even when requested it was a point blank.

Even the first picture taken from the forum Soulful Detroit is no match for the drawing from the advert.59a9ce662e500_Capturedcran2017-09-0123_09_04.png.bab3d0277a2ed3edac53196a485963df.png

Edited by tlscapital
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43 minutes ago, dylan said:

He sounds white.

Not on "Lucky To Be Loved By You" - unreleased Thelma cut.  I always thought he was Black and saw pictures that said the person was him, and it was an Afro-American.  He didn't sound "White" to me, on D-Town and Wheelsville USA, or Dearborn, at least, from what I remember.

 

Edited by RobbK
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1 hour ago, tlscapital said:

Sorry but there's no match and these are all pictures of Isaac Kari at different decades of it's life showing the resemblance far from the drawing anyway...

59a9c9f001ef9_Capturedcran2017-09-0122_54_37.png.fd457d731350dff13ce3fd38cd05de73.png59a9c9f1e8465_Capturedcran2017-09-0122_54_28.png.1f7552e7f55687e6f6419d0fd7de9fe2.png59a9c9f383ad0_Capturedcran2017-09-0122_54_12.png.f760f656949c5bd751ff183afd75ceb4.png59a9c9f51d325_Capturedcran2017-09-0122_54_02.png.6ef1e4efc5a290044164a23d116c9911.png

Yes that's Sax Kari.  Hargreaves probably wasn't even alive when that earliest photo of Kari was taken.

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30 minutes ago, RobbK said:

Not on "Lucky To Be Loved By You" - unreleased Thelma cut.  I always thought he was Black and saw pictures that said the person was him, and it was an Afro-American.  He didn't sound "White" to me, on D-Town and Wheelsville USA, or Dearborn, at least, from what I remember.

 

To be honest Robb, I don't even recognize Silky's voice on this unreleased take of 'lucky to be loved by you'. I couldn't even guess to put a name on that voice. Where on his 6 released sides even though he changed of shirt, hat and socks his voice timber betrays him.

Both his D-Town 45 and Wheelsville sides are so "black" on everything about them, that it's only when you allow to question Silky's "pedigree" and re-listen to them another way, leaving room to the possibility that... Yeah... Maybe... Likely... Right !

Where for his Dearborn 45, it always made me believe that this guy there was white. Or could that be the "black" guy we knew from the D-Town and Wheelsville 45's wanted to go break bigger and reach the "pop" market to sound "white" ?

Goes without saying nothing wrong with it one way or the other. For me his 3 singles are of cult statues and I'd love to unveil some of the mysteries around the man like the OP 'Soul Slider'. We'd love to know it all but a little slice of that guy's who's and whereabouts would be a blessing already.

Edited by tlscapital
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7 hours ago, tlscapital said:

 

Goes without saying nothing wrong with it one way or the other. 

Yes i agree with this i wasnt trying to belittle the records in any way and i dont know one way or the other.  Just making an observation.

 

keep loving me is classic northern.

 

it would be nice to get to the bottom of things like this with some proper evidence.

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12 hours ago, David Meikle said:

Betty Lavette showed me a photograph of Silky as she knew him very well.

Please be assured he was African American.

Thanks for the input. But still it is no proof. Only on this thread one of the two showed pictures was ruled out. 

The first one with the 2 Wheelsville labels is still questionable as it's not established one way or the other as to who it is for sure.

The wonderful advert for the Dearborn 45 is a drawing not stating that Silky resemble the character. Many "fake" figures" are used to "embellish" a product...

The "somebody told me or showed me" is left to the memories that are what they are; only memories. And willingly or not just adding to the grapevine, rumors or urban legends.

Edited by tlscapital
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14 hours ago, tlscapital said:

I did a lot of finally dreaded G**gl search a while ago and only found stories about the white guy hanging with his mates; JJ Barnes, Cody Black, Steve Mancha & Co. in the studios and never a picture was shown. Even when requested it was a point blank.

Even the first picture taken from the forum Soulful Detroit is no match for the drawing from the advert.59a9ce662e500_Capturedcran2017-09-0123_09_04.png.bab3d0277a2ed3edac53196a485963df.png

Looks like a very good match to me?

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43 minutes ago, maslar said:

Looks like a very good match to me?

Close to but no match to me. That is why the drawing is not conclusive. Plus this drawing is made from a picture. So if the same guy as from the picture, either the drawer intentionally "twist" the picture or he wasn't a good portraitist. The similarities maybe there (haircut, wide front head, linear eyebrows, medium large nose and lips) but the "person" is not in my eyes. If shown wrong, I'll be more than happy to finally have seen Silky, the black dude and admit to my misjudgment !

Edited by tlscapital
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16 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

Close to but no match to me. That is why the drawing is not conclusive. Plus this drawing is made from a picture. So if the same guy as from the picture either the drawer intentionally "twist" the picture or he wasn't a good portraitist. The similarities maybe there (haircut, wide front head, linear eyebrows, medium large nose and lips) but the "person" is not in my eyes. If shown wrong, I'll be more than happy to finally have seen Silky, the black dude and admit to my misjudgment !

I think you're looking too  hard:) . People tend to look slightly different in different photos. I'd say the drawing  was an excellent ressemblance of the person in the soulful detroit pic. 

Also it's taken me just a short time to find a brief bio from a press cutting posted on Soulful detroit by Graham Finch which states that "Sylki"  Hargrave performed in a "gospel quartet" (doo wop?). He performed at Lee's Club Senstation which featured black artists (situated  in Paradise Valley I think).  and there's a reference to his friendship with Betty Lavett(e).

 

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9 hours ago, maslar said:

I think you're looking too  hard:) . People tend to look slightly different in different photos. I'd say the drawing  was an excellent resemblance of the person in the soulful detroit pic. 

Also it's taken me just a short time to find a brief bio from a press cutting posted on Soulful detroit by Graham Finch which states that "Sylki"  Hargrave performed in a "gospel quartet" (doo wop?). He performed at Lee's Club Senstation which featured black artists (situated  in Paradise Valley I think).  and there's a reference to his friendship with Betty Lavett(e).

 

Silky Hargreaves was a Black man.  I saw a few photos of him years ago.  I can't remember the source.  Furthermore, I am an artist, and understand how difficult it is to make everything in a photo look the same in a drawing.  To me, that advert drawing is an excellent portrayal of the man in the photo, and I have no doubt that they are one in the same person.

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15 hours ago, RobbK said:

Silky Hargreaves was a Black man.  I saw a few photos of him years ago.  I can't remember the source.  Furthermore, I am an artist, and understand how difficult it is to make everything in a photo look the same in a drawing.  To me, that advert drawing is an excellent portrayal of the man in the photo, and I have no doubt that they are one in the same person.

OK, I'll take the inclination to "believe", YES you heard me "I AM A BELIEVER" for the moment at least, that Silky is black. If ever someone could come across another picture of Silky please report on here. We will be forever worthy of :)

On the portrait side of things, I drew too. I know what it is to make people's portrait. Being a good drawer is not all. It also requires humility, as not to see ourselves in those we love and portrait them as we perceive ourselves or, if not love, to turn it into a caricature of something else that still belongs to the pencil holder somehow.

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2 hours ago, tlscapital said:

OK, I'll take the inclination to "believe", YES you heard me "I AM A BELIEVER" for the moment at least, that Silky is black. If ever someone could come across another picture of Silky please report on here. We will be forever worthy of :)

On the portrait side of things, I drew too. I know what it is to make people's portrait. Being a good drawer is not all. It also requires humility, as not to see ourselves in those we love and portrait them as we perceive ourselves or, if not love, to turn it into a caricature of something else that still belongs to the pencil holder somehow.

Klopt!  I agree 100 % with that statement.  But, I still think that the advert drawing is the man in the photo.

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1 minute ago, David Meikle said:

Silky's father was Bluesman Richard 'Nickel' Hargrave.

Silky was also a cousin of Mike Hanks.

Detail from Keith Rylatt's book Groovesville.

End of......

info dig shows that copyright records points at at his real name being  James Hargraves Jr ?

KEEP LOVIN ME LIKE YOU DO w Love m Silky Hargraves James Hargraves Jr 2 p 21Aug67 EU11053 

content?id=uz8hAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1896&img=1&

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  • 6 years later...

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