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Admirations (Aspirations)

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10 hours ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

All fab to these ears....you left me on peaches is an amazing record!......great stuff.....Rob

p.s....wouldn't fancy the bill for that one frankie.

Me neither but it had to be done... Once in a lifetime opportunity. Even the Mrs was humming along to it when I first played it.

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Am not smoking the carpet here (maybe only a Belgian/French expression meaning "deluding")... but I love to understand how to put together the stuffs that I have at heart. So I do not want to put up a smokescreen here on odd theories. It is often presented that the Paree 45 to be their debut single. Could be...

The other day home playing my copy to a friend of 'I want to be free', he jumped right away saying but that is the same backing track to the Ringleaders 'baby what happened to our love' and I went ****sheet**** that is so true and even I never made the connection...

Not the same backing track per say, but the backing track uses the same construction and gimmicks. So very likely recorded at the same times or sessions. That would indeed place it around mid to late 1966 (Ringleaders is that date) and so indeed before their following 2 singles on One-Derful.

Mind you that there are 3 variations of label for the Peaches release. 2 of which are credited to the Aspirations and all 3 are from the same pressing plant. But with the label name once on the right and once on the left for the Aspirations ones. And then the one credited to the Admirations with the name label Peaches again on the left.

The oddity for the Peaches issues is that the 2 credited to the Aspirations uses all the same font on both sides. Where for the Admirations not. The font used to write "THE ADMIRATIONS" is of another type than the rest of the credits on the 'I want to be free' side which uses the same font as the Aspirations labels for the rest.

And very odd for the Admirations on the 'you left me' side, they used the same font for the credits as for the name 'the Admirations'... So likely they were all pressed in small numbers judging by the rarity of the 45 floating around. Especially the Aspirations credited ones. Still the 45 enjoyed 3 consecutive runs and all 3 with un-understandable explanation if any as to why I have yet to find to this day.

Likely they lost the stamp of the 'You Left Me' side for the third and likely last run of the Admirations on Peaches. And used what ever font they had not to waste precious time. As if it was a "rush release" of some sort. Then why the name change from the Aspirations to the Admirations ?

Was it not actually the Aspirations on Peaches with the label name on the right their very first 45 ? Then the second issue with 'Peaches' on the left of the label. Then it could be after their first ride with success at One-Derful that they decided to re-issue the single this time credited to the Admirations using part of the original label stamp part not...

The Paree single would then come last in line !? Well the font used for the Paree single is more typical of the late 6T's post 1968 Chicago label to my eyes and knowledge. Makes sense to me...

 

Edited by tlscapital

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2 hours ago, chalky said:

Paree was the first release in 1966 as far as I am aware. Then Aspirations on Peaches. Admirations on Peaches then the Onderful stuff. 

It is written like so in all discographies I've seen indeed. Only those typical typo font on the Paree release from a certain Chicago pressing plant start to appear to my knowledge only on post 1968 known releases unless proven wrong. Like here below where typo and/or colors matches !

59b8f1a533aff_Capturedcran2017-09-1310_49_37.thumb.png.af6b3804d20dd5488ed7114e9fbb82e8.png

 

Then the variation of the 3 different releases on the Peaches release clearly show the chronology of those releases and the mysterious name change last. The rest are hints like with the sessions, people's names credited on the releases, the similarity of backing track with the Ringleaders from mid to late 1966...

Not implying I am confidently right on my recent theory. No, only wanting to know from facts or reliable testimonies the story behind that fantastic string of 4 forty-fives in a row surrounded by mystery...

Edited by tlscapital
scans added

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On 12/09/2017 at 22:20, tlscapital said:

Am not smoking the carpet here (maybe only a Belgian/French expression meaning "deluding")... but I love to understand how to put together the stuffs that I have at heart. So I do not want to put up a smokescreen here on odd theories. It is often presented that the Paree 45 to be their debut single. Could be...

The other day home playing my copy to a friend of 'I want to be free', he jumped right away saying but that is the same backing track to the Ringleaders 'baby what happened to our love' and I went ****sheet**** that is so true and even I never made the connection...

Not the same backing track per say, but the backing track uses the same construction and gimmicks. So very likely recorded at the same times or sessions. That would indeed place it around mid to late 1966 (Ringleaders is that date) and so indeed before their following 2 singles on One-Derful.

Mind you that there are 3 variations of label for the Peaches release. 2 of which are credited to the Aspirations and all 3 are from the same pressing plant. But with the label name once on the right and once on the left for the Aspirations ones. And then the one credited to the Admirations with the name label Peaches again on the left.

The oddity for the Peaches issues is that the 2 credited to the Aspirations uses all the same font on both sides. Where for the Admirations not. The font used to write "THE ADMIRATIONS" is of another type than the rest of the credits on the 'I want to be free' side which uses the same font as the Aspirations labels for the rest.

And very odd for the Admirations on the 'you left me' side, they used the same font for the credits as for the name 'the Admirations'... So likely they were all pressed in small numbers judging by the rarity of the 45 floating around. Especially the Aspirations credited ones. Still the 45 enjoyed 3 consecutive runs and all 3 with un-understandable explanation if any as to why I have yet to find to this day.

Likely they lost the stamp of the 'You Left Me' side for the third and likely last run of the Admirations on Peaches. And used what ever font they had not to waste precious time. As if it was a "rush release" of some sort. Then why the name change from the Aspirations to the Admirations ?

Was it not actually the Aspirations on Peaches with the label name on the right their very first 45 ? Then the second issue with 'Peaches' on the left of the label. Then it could be after their first ride with success at One-Derful that they decided to re-issue the single this time credited to the Admirations using part of the original label stamp part not...

The Paree single would then come last in line !? Well the font used for the Paree single is more typical of the late 6T's post 1968 Chicago label to my eyes and knowledge. Makes sense to me...

 

Is there also a reverse colour ADMIRATIONS with PEACHES on left? So the dark pink is at the top / or bottom? The One John Manship had for sale recently had the dark pink at the bottom. John's copy obviously original, so is dark-pink-top just one variety of the original pressings? Anyone?

 

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Interesting re; the colour variations....  fascinating how a record with more than one release & under 2 diff names is apparently so rare. Anyone got any real idea how many of these about. JM book reckons less than 25 Admirations and less than 10 aspirations although I'm sure i remember a post saying they thought rareity was the other way round. (Talking about you left me/i want to be free of course).  Absolutely fantastic record.

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Posted (edited)

OK so 4 variations... 2 Aspirations with logo once left and once right on the label and 2 Admirations with pale pink at the bottom on label and the "new" one from JM auction with pale pink at the top of label !!! Likely from the same batch but with the paper label upside down done at the (mis)press.

My copy of the Aspirations with the logo on the right of the label was acquired in Chicago in a second hand record store and had a distributor promo sticker on it. That I "stupidly" removed and threw in the bin back then. So likely comes from the very first batch of press. To this day the Aspirations copies are by far the rarests.

Edited by tlscapital

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Can anyone clarify the matrix / run out on this please, I 'may' have an opportunity to aquire one - although not holding my breath - and it would be helpful to be very clear, is it different for the alternate pressings?

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1 hour ago, scotchmartin said:

Can anyone clarify the matrix / run out on this please, I 'may' have an opportunity to aquire one - although not holding my breath - and it would be helpful to be very clear, is it different for the alternate pressings?

Why should the matrix be any issue ? They are all baring the same and sound the same I believe. It's just different labels variations and credits we're trying to explain in chronology or in the messing up in business if ever... No bootlegger inferior mastering as far as I know that is.

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On 14/06/2018 at 00:59, tlscapital said:

Why should the matrix be any issue ? They are all baring the same and sound the same I believe. It's just different labels variations and credits we're trying to explain in chronology or in the messing up in business if ever... No bootlegger inferior mastering as far as I know that is.

I'm starting to remember why I hardly ever access soul source...

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Posted (edited)

I was talking to some notable Chicago folk, Robert Pruter being one (it was he who gave me the photo of the group I posted at some point)  and all say the Paree release was the Admirations debut 45.  I've no reason to doubt them despite theories over fonts.  Then the Peaches release of which no one can say with any certainty which release came first, my feeling it was The Aspirations first, maybe a change of attitude after the failure of the Paree release?  Then back to a more familiar name, The Admirations?

Edited by chalky

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11 hours ago, chalky said:

I was talking to some notable Chicago folk, Robert Pruter being one (it was he who gave me the photo of the group I posted at some point)  and all say the Paree release was the Admirations debut 45.  I've no reason to doubt them despite theories over fonts.  Then the Peaches release of which no one can say with any certainty which release came first, my feeling it was The Aspirations first, maybe a change of attitude after the failure of the Paree release?  Then back to a more familiar name, The Admirations?

So the similarities in the musical riffs, timber in sound and musical composition of the Aspirations/Admirations 'I want to be free' with the Ringleaders 'baby, what has happen to our love' which dates early 1966 apparently, could set it there accordingly if we would consider them being from the same studio recording take for example.

But could be another way around as well and instead of being an early effort not meeting the success expected with an attempt to be revived with the "new" name of the success formation, it could be a One-Derful reel studio tape saved by Eddie Silvers after the record company group sudden shut down by early 1968 and released aftermath.

The fact that 'my admiration for you' B/W 'heaven in your arms' on Pare record is definitely their most "amateur" sounding record should by ear place it as their "beginning" record. But it could also be a later release from an old reel tape only release after their hits to "cash-in" on their One-Derful success and name fame...

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

So the similarities in the musical riffs, timber in sound and musical composition of the Aspirations/Admirations 'I want to be free' with the Ringleaders 'baby, what has happen to our love' which dates early 1966 apparently, could set it there accordingly if we would consider them being from the same studio recording take for example.

But could be another way around as well and instead of being an early effort not meeting the success expected with an attempt to be revived with the "new" name of the success formation, it could be a One-Derful reel studio tape saved by Eddie Silvers after the record company group sudden shut down by early 1968 and released aftermath.

The fact that 'my admiration for you' B/W 'heaven in your arms' on Pare record is definitely their most "amateur" sounding record should by ear place it as their "beginning" record. But it could also be a later release from an old reel tape only release after their hits to "cash-in" on their One-Derful success and name fame...

I don't think there is any argument about the release date of the Peaches recording.  

As for Paree, people like Gregory Moore and others around at that time say Paree was the first, there isn't one discography or biography to counter the argument.  As you say and others also the vocals certainly sound younger and not as professional as their other releases.  As for the font, I get your argument but there is nothing to say that font wasn't used in 1966 either.  Neither were the group a big hit despite reasonable sales locally so not sure why anyone would think to try and cash in with earlier recordings?

Hopefully will get some answers from the bassist.

Edited by chalky

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no mention on here of Lonely Street - released on Brunswick - I guess this maybe another "Admirations" - for those who don't know this track IMO it is well soulful, Latin sounding beat Ballard.

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8 minutes ago, ganesh said:

no mention on here of Lonely Street - released on Brunswick - I guess this maybe another "Admirations" - for those who don't know this track IMO it is well soulful, Latin sounding beat Ballard.

White (or brown/latin ?) groupe from New York or about by the sound of it.

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Absolutely wonderful record  ,often wondered about the rarity though , it was  regular Wigan spin in 1980 for the middle of the night Djs , Gary Rushbrooke always played it ,I saw several copies at that time for sale for £25.00 ,   Three pressings  would seem to confirm  there must be  quite a few out there  (unless they were very small  runs ) A s it is such a fantastic record , I mean who wouldn't want one ? ...probably demand has  caused more of the price inflation than outright rarity (or at least a mix of the two ).

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2 minutes ago, carty said:

Absolutely wonderful record  ,often wondered about the rarity though , it was  regular Wigan spin in 1980 for the middle of the night Djs , Gary Rushbrooke always played it ,I saw several copies at that time for sale for £25.00 ,   Three pressings  would seem to confirm  there must be  quite a few out there  (unless they were very small  runs ) A s it is such a fantastic record , I mean who wouldn't want one ? ...probably demand has  caused more of the price inflation than outright rarity (or at least a mix of the two ).

I'd bet on very small pressing runs judging by the number of copies escaping from the USA since the evilBay days. And from those, most seem pretty worn out so indeed likely it had some brief instant success and got repress to supply some demand.

There was that Chicago stash "warehouse" with those 2 jewish bosses who, sometime late 7T's or early 8T's, did all the record store around the Michigan lake area to buy and gather all the 6T's unsold records. They ended up with large quantities of soul 45's and the first Brits who dropped in there could pick whatever they wanted but to a costs ($50 a piece). Then the followers for less ($25), then less...

I believe that the first batches (multiples) of the Admirations (mint) on Peaches to hit the UK lists (@£15 I remember reading) came from there somewhere in the early 8T's. But as usual, people got frisky when more than 2 copies popped out at the same time (is it a bootleg, how many more copies...) to drop in value and fade it's initial appeal... Not anymore !

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2 hours ago, tlscapital said:

I'd bet on very small pressing runs judging by the number of copies escaping from the USA since the evilBay days. And from those, most seem pretty worn out so indeed likely it had some brief instant success and got repress to supply some demand.

There was that Chicago stash "warehouse" with those 2 jewish bosses who, sometime late 7T's or early 8T's, did all the record store around the Michigan lake area to buy and gather all the 6T's unsold records. They ended up with large quantities of soul 45's and the first Brits who dropped in there could pick whatever they wanted but to a costs ($50 a piece). Then the followers for less ($25), then less...

I believe that the first batches (multiples) of the Admirations (mint) on Peaches to hit the UK lists (@£15 I remember reading) came from there somewhere in the early 8T's. But as usual, people got frisky when more than 2 copies popped out at the same time (is it a bootleg, how many more copies...) to drop in value and fade it's initial appeal... Not anymore !

The Chicago stash? You mean the one John Anderson had? That was a distribution outfit wasn’t it who handled amongst ithers the Leaner Brothers labels. 

The Peaches release, wasn’t it around 1979 for Dave Raistrick?

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26 minutes ago, chalky said:

The Chicago stash? You mean the one John Anderson had? That was a distribution outfit wasn’t it who handled amongst ithers the Leaner Brothers labels. 

The Peaches release, wasn’t it around 1979 for Dave Raistrick?

Like a big shop with a warehouse aside on the outskirts of Chicago (I went there by train). One of the two jewish bosses told me their story as when I last went by 2000 or a bit before... In their van they definitely done the shops, juke-box distributors and maybe the records distributors around the Michigan lake... That I remember. Can't say who from the UK went there first to pick to "cream of the crop" out of that stash if I ever knew...

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Posted (edited)

Hi

Ian Clark  played you left me at Yate

C/U as Timothy Wilson   (was a very popular sound at Yate)

ATB

Floyd

Edited by floyd

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3 minutes ago, JulianB said:

The bottom one is like my copy. Maybe the top one is a boot?🤣😂

Bottom ? Top ? They are standing next one to another ! Are you viewing the internet on one of these small screen supposed "Smart Phone" thingy ? 😉

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6 hours ago, tlscapital said:

 

Label variations are covered further up in the thread 😊

6 hours ago, JulianB said:

The bottom one is like my copy. Maybe the top one is a boot?🤣😂

😴

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The Paree issue was first.  But, The Admirations were singing at venues in Chicagoland, and The One-derful cuts got some air time.  So, maybe Paree's owner it pressed up again, to get some sales.  Maybe the letter pressing is a lot more common (or the only one known) because some boxes of it that Anderson got provided most of the copies The Northern Soul community has.  My copy looks like the one in the scan above.  But, I didn't get it until 1968 or 1969.  But, maybe the earlier original pressing had a different font.  I can't remember.  I don't remember seeing the font that was on the record above, before late 1967 or early 1968.

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18 minutes ago, RobbK said:

The Paree issue was first.  But, The Admirations were singing at venues in Chicagoland, and The One-derful cuts got some air time.  So, maybe Paree's owner it pressed up again, to get some sales.  Maybe the letter pressing is a lot more common (or the only one known) because some boxes of it that Anderson got provided most of the copies The Northern Soul community has.  My copy looks like the one in the scan above.  But, I didn't get it until 1968 or 1969.  But, maybe the earlier original pressing had a different font.  I can't remember.  I don't remember seeing the font that was on the record above, before late 1967 or early 1968.

Robb, I am guessing you're on the Paree 45 here (not the Peaches), then you could be corroborating my guess. That if the recording session pre-dates indeed the Eddie Silvers sessions, the Paree 45 could have been done after their hits for One-Derful. 

The scan of the Paree here above, between the Legends on Red Balloon (2nd release from the Lockett (then CUR) but with different flip side) dating from mid 1970 while the the Soul Majestic's on the Al-Tog press is supposedly dating 1969 or so... 

The more common copies of the Paree are bootlegs (made for the UK scene) I've been told. Not second releases. Of which the label is a copy of the original one. And I've never seen those font on 1967 nor 1968 records. But I haven't seen them all yet ! Could you show me one ? Cheers, Tim

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10 hours ago, tlscapital said:

Robb, I am guessing you're on the Paree 45 here (not the Peaches), then you could be corroborating my guess. That if the recording session pre-dates indeed the Eddie Silvers sessions, the Paree 45 could have been done after their hits for One-Derful. 

The scan of the Paree here above, between the Legends on Red Balloon (2nd release from the Lockett (then CUR) but with different flip side) dating from mid 1970 while the the Soul Majestic's on the Al-Tog press is supposedly dating 1969 or so... 

The more common copies of the Paree are bootlegs (made for the UK scene) I've been told. Not second releases. Of which the label is a copy of the original one. And I've never seen those font on 1967 nor 1968 records. But I haven't seen them all yet ! Could you show me one ? Cheers, Tim

Sorry.  I'm in Denmark now, so not with my records.  After another 2 weeks here, then I return to Munich, Germany for 5 weeks.  Then I return to The Netherlands.  I won't be back with my Chicago 45s until September.  My Paree is an original.  The indentation dip in the centre of the label area isn't so deep nor so pronounced.  It's more like the Al-Tog record shown above.  But, the font looks the same.

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On 02/07/2018 at 20:05, Ted Massey said:

Laters Karl Jim Wensioras old copy 

If i am not mistaken Gary Rushbrooke sold his collection to jim so is this Gary's old copy which was covered up as Timothy Wilson played at wigan 1980- 81 then played at Stafford and Oddfellows etc?

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1 hour ago, Greedy Mick said:

If i am not mistaken Gary Rushbrooke sold his collection to jim so is this Gary's old copy which was covered up as Timothy Wilson played at wigan 1980- 81 then played at Stafford and Oddfellows etc?

Think a few had dibs at Gary’s?

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On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 20:01, chalky said:

Think a few had dibs at Gary’s?

That's right Chalky

I went down on my scooter to his house and bought quite a few bits off him. Then went on to Chris Shaws for one of his do's.

Think I had 3-4 copies that all looked the same as Ted's picture, all from different sources.

Dave

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Ref: You left me / Professionals - Max at the Cats - Can't verify 'you left me', but defo Professionals as I was surprised when he spun it, as at that time I thought I'd got the only copy - As we find right up to the present day - someone, somewhere pretty much always got there first so to speak.

back in the 90's Steve Kennedy had both of these in his collection along with loads of other massive rarities and when I went to his place in Nuneaton both were still for sale along with John & Weirdest / Paris / Fascinators and numerous others - I finished up buying 5 or 6 and spent several thousand pounds, the Professionals to replace the one sold to John Manship in 84/85 but not 'You left me' - something I regretted by the next week when Steve informed me it had gone. 

Steve

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