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Mace

Brenda Holloway 'Here are the pieces of my broken heart' Acetate

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Good find ... I'm sure Robb K will be excited to see these given they nearly all featured on his infamous tapes way back when.

having listened to the sound clip I can tell it is the same acetate that Robb had access to ... The surface noise gives it away .., it is a beautiful vocal performance

I've always loved the Brenda version and when I asked her about it she did say that she was rather upset that Gladys got to record it 'properly'

I wonder who wrote the artist names on the labels ?

Andy

Edited by Andy Rix

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32 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

Good find ... I'm sure Robb K will be excited to see these given they nearly all featured on his infamous tapes way back when.

having listened to the sound clip I can tell it is the same acetate that Robb had access to ... The surface noise gives it away .., it is a beautiful vocal performance

I've always loved the Brenda version and when I asked her about it she did say that she was rather upset that Gladys got to record it 'properly'

I wonder who wrote the artist names on the labels ?

Andy

Hi Andy, thanks for some additional info!

These were purchased in Austin, Texas from a dealer who had come over from L.A.

Whilst I was listening to the discs, Craig Moerer was speaking to the guy, and I guess he was discussing the background history....I was keen to purchase them with what cash I had left so didn't hang around to discuss them further but do know how to contact the seller to get more background info on them........ I have been told that another copy of the Marvelettes acetate exists, so not sure if there are more copies of the Brenda Holloway?

The style of handwriting looks different on each one, as does the pen used......not sure if that's intentional or not?

Oh, btw, sourced a Ray Williams on Space last year, so you've managed to shed one mitherer at least ! :D 

Regards

Mace

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3 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Good find ... I'm sure Robb K will be excited to see these given they nearly all featured on his infamous tapes way back when.

having listened to the sound clip I can tell it is the same acetate that Robb had access to ... The surface noise gives it away .., it is a beautiful vocal performance

I've always loved the Brenda version and when I asked her about it she did say that she was rather upset that Gladys got to record it 'properly'

I wonder who wrote the artist names on the labels ?

Andy

Yes, Andy, I had just about ALL of those particular acetates in my hands at Motown in the mid and late 1970s, while working on "The From The Vaults Project".

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7 hours ago, RobbK said:

Yes, Andy, I had just about ALL of those particular acetates in my hands at Motown in the mid and late 1970s, while working on "The From The Vaults Project".

So Robb, are these the ACTUAL acetates you had access to, or is it likely that more were produced? Also, were the artists names written on them at the time you saw them, as I presume Andy thinks they have been added since?

Many thanks for adding more info, it's very doubtful that I will keep most of these cus believe they need to be owned by someone who will cherish and care for them for many years to come....but already getting kinda attached to the Miracles and Mary Wells !

Regards

Mace

Edited by Mace

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24 minutes ago, daved said:

Pity it was just a snippet. I didn't want it to end. In fact I'd love to hear a full CD of demos with just the piano backing.

Apologies for keeping it so short, I'm sure it will be available to hear in full sometime in the future, with bootlegging so rife nowadays I'm just trying to avoid the obvious.

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13 hours ago, Mace said:

So Robb, are these the ACTUAL acetates you had access to, or is it likely that more were produced? Also, were the artists names written on them at the time you saw them, as I presume Andy thinks they have been added since?

Many thanks for adding more info, it's very doubtful that I will keep most of these cus believe they need to be owned by someone who will cherish and care for them for many years to come....but already getting kinda attached to the Miracles and Mary Wells !

Regards

Mace

Most, if not all, of those same records, I had in my own hands.  They are Jobete Music acetates, which were just made soon after they were recorded, just to prove ownership of the publishing rights.  The particular artists who sang them were not important, to prove publishing rights ownership.  So, the artist name was never written on that type of acetate.  Yes, the artists' names were added after 1980 (which was the last time I saw them at Motown).  They started "disappearing" from Motown, and appearing on auction in the late '80s and early '90s.  There were usually 2 Jobete Music acetates made for each song, from what I remember.  From 1961-69 or so, the cloudy, creme-coloured label with red ribbon, typewriter typed song titles, were made for proof of Jobete Music ownership.  In addition, there was or were often one or two, or even more, Motown Corp. acetates and one, two or more vinyl studio demo records pressed for each song.  Motown acetates and demos usually (almost always) had the artist listed as well.  Those virtually always used black type.  Some Motown acetates were made months, and sometimes, years later.  Also, many non-Motown (bootleg or personal) acetates and studio demos were made many, many years later, but are sometimes sold as "original Motown recordings, from the year of original recording".  Beware of those.

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41 minutes ago, RobbK said:

Most, if not all, of those same records, I had in my own hands.  They are Jobete Music acetates, which were just made soon after they were recorded, just to prove ownership of the publishing rights.  The particular artists who sang them were not important, to prove publishing rights ownership.  So, the artist name was never written on that type of acetate.  Yes, the artists' names were added after 1980 (which was the last time I saw them at Motown).  They started "disappearing" from Motown, and appearing on auction in the late '80s and early '90s.  There were usually 2 Jobete Music acetates made for each song, from what I remember.  From 1961-69 or so, the cloudy, creme-coloured label with red ribbon, typewriter typed song titles, were made for proof of Jobete Music ownership.  In addition, there was or were often one or two, or even more, Motown Corp. acetates and one, two or more vinyl studio demo records pressed for each song.  Motown acetates and demos usually (almost always) had the artist listed as well.  Those virtually always used black type.  Some Motown acetates were made months, and sometimes, years later.  Also, many non-Motown (bootleg or personal) acetates and studio demos were made many, many years later, but are sometimes sold as "original Motown recordings, from the year of original recording".  Beware of those.

Thank you Robb, I appreciate you taking your time to share your knowledge with us.

These are in pretty good shape considering their age and fragility....some surface noise as mentioned by Andy Rix, which seems to have been evident back in the 80s.

I had to leave a few others cus of finances, though two of those were pretty weak (a Bob Kayli one and another artist I forget).....there was another one by Eddie Holland that a friend of mine bought, and this was same label but had a Hitsville logo ink stamped on top centre of label.

Regards

Mace

 

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On ‎05‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 00:31, RobbK said:

Most, if not all, of those same records, I had in my own hands.  They are Jobete Music acetates, which were just made soon after they were recorded, just to prove ownership of the publishing rights.  The particular artists who sang them were not important, to prove publishing rights ownership.  So, the artist name was never written on that type of acetate.  Yes, the artists' names were added after 1980 (which was the last time I saw them at Motown).  They started "disappearing" from Motown, and appearing on auction in the late '80s and early '90s.  There were usually 2 Jobete Music acetates made for each song, from what I remember.  From 1961-69 or so, the cloudy, creme-coloured label with red ribbon, typewriter typed song titles, were made for proof of Jobete Music ownership.  In addition, there was or were often one or two, or even more, Motown Corp. acetates and one, two or more vinyl studio demo records pressed for each song.  Motown acetates and demos usually (almost always) had the artist listed as well.  Those virtually always used black type.  Some Motown acetates were made months, and sometimes, years later.  Also, many non-Motown (bootleg or personal) acetates and studio demos were made many, many years later, but are sometimes sold as "original Motown recordings, from the year of original recording".  Beware of those.

Just re-reading this information.....could you clarify if the pic below of the Eddie Holland acetate is what you described as a Motown Corp. Acetate or the Studio Demo Boot.......think this was the only one with the 'Hitsville Sound Studios' stamp on the label, and was also a lot cleaner condition than the others......I left this one cus of lack of funds, but a friend of mine bought it afterwards, and he'd like clarification on authenticity......thanks in advance.

Regards,

Mace.

 

eddie holland.jpg

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I would guess that the Eddie Holland Demo above IS a Motown Record Corp. Demo record.  Is it on acetate or vinyl?  It is a demo, rather than a Jobete Music Co. acetate made solely for proof of ownership of the song.  It is a strange one, in that the song title is typed in red ink, like the Jobete Music proof of ownership acetates were. 

Usually, Motown Corp. acetates were typed all in black, as I remember, whether they were acetates or vinyl demos.  The vinyl demos were usually labeled using a recording studio label.  Earlier, Motown stamped "Hitsville Recording Studios" on the creme-coloured blank labels (as this one), and, later, they used printed studio labels.  From what I remember, most of those from the time of this 1965 Eddie Holland demo used black typewriter ink for all info entries (no red for the songtitle - to avoid confusion as to whether or not it was a Jobete acetate. 

Maybe this was a slip up, OR Motown needed a demo acetate in such a hurry that they just used the 2nd Jobete acetate for an emergency Motown demo?  I thought that "Love is What You Make It" was originally recorded in 1963.  The fact that it has a March 1965 stamp on it leads me to believe that they were using it for a demo for another artist to record it, especially given that Eddie Holland's singing career was officially over by then.  I wonder who recorded it in 1965?

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2 hours ago, RobbK said:

I would guess that the Eddie Holland Demo above IS a Motown Record Corp. Demo record.  Is it on acetate or vinyl?  It is a demo, rather than a Jobete Music Co. acetate made solely for proof of ownership of the song.  It is a strange one, in that the song title is typed in red ink, like the Jobete Music proof of ownership acetates were. 

Usually, Motown Corp. acetates were typed all in black, as I remember, whether they were acetates or vinyl demos.  The vinyl demos were usually labeled using a recording studio label.  Earlier, Motown stamped "Hitsville Recording Studios" on the creme-coloured blank labels (as this one), and, later, they used printed studio labels.  From what I remember, most of those from the time of this 1965 Eddie Holland demo used black typewriter ink for all info entries (no red for the songtitle - to avoid confusion as to whether or not it was a Jobete acetate. 

Maybe this was a slip up, OR Motown needed a demo acetate in such a hurry that they just used the 2nd Jobete acetate for an emergency Motown demo?  I thought that "Love is What You Make It" was originally recorded in 1963.  The fact that it has a March 1965 stamp on it leads me to believe that they were using it for a demo for another artist to record it, especially given that Eddie Holland's singing career was officially over by then.  I wonder who recorded it in 1965?

Thanks for this information Robb, much appreciated. This is my copy that Mace speaks of and it's an acetate. Based on your opinion, I'm going to consider this an authentic Demo. Evidence suggests that this is a '62 recording, so the 1965 date stamp might just be as you say, a Demo pressed up for another artist to consider recording back in '65.

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2 hours ago, RobbK said:

I would guess that the Eddie Holland Demo above IS a Motown Record Corp. Demo record.  Is it on acetate or vinyl?  It is a demo, rather than a Jobete Music Co. acetate made solely for proof of ownership of the song.  It is a strange one, in that the song title is typed in red ink, like the Jobete Music proof of ownership acetates were. 

Usually, Motown Corp. acetates were typed all in black, as I remember, whether they were acetates or vinyl demos.  The vinyl demos were usually labeled using a recording studio label.  Earlier, Motown stamped "Hitsville Recording Studios" on the creme-coloured blank labels (as this one), and, later, they used printed studio labels.  From what I remember, most of those from the time of this 1965 Eddie Holland demo used black typewriter ink for all info entries (no red for the songtitle - to avoid confusion as to whether or not it was a Jobete acetate. 

Maybe this was a slip up, OR Motown needed a demo acetate in such a hurry that they just used the 2nd Jobete acetate for an emergency Motown demo?  I thought that "Love is What You Make It" was originally recorded in 1963.  The fact that it has a March 1965 stamp on it leads me to believe that they were using it for a demo for another artist to record it, especially given that Eddie Holland's singing career was officially over by then.  I wonder who recorded it in 1965?

Thanks again Robb, the date seemed odd because the DFTMC lists it as April 1962 Pic below), but you had mentioned in a previous post that some Motown acetates were made a few years after the Jobete publishing acetates, so guess this could be the case here?

Thanks to Lenny Harkins for additional info.

Regards

Mace

 

info.jpg

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32 minutes ago, snakepit said:

According to DFTMC Eddie's date from 1962, and The Temptations version 1966

Oops.....only just seen this post.....apologies for repeating.

Temps version on Youtube.....

 

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9 hours ago, Mace said:

Just re-reading this information.....could you clarify if the pic below of the Eddie Holland acetate is what you described as a Motown Corp. Acetate or the Studio Demo Boot.......think this was the only one with the 'Hitsville Sound Studios' stamp on the label, and was also a lot cleaner condition than the others......I left this one cus of lack of funds, but a friend of mine bought it afterwards, and he'd like clarification on authenticity......thanks in advance.

Regards,

Mace.

 

eddie holland.jpg

That is a real Motown acetate ... MV inked on the label is Micky Valvano ... it appears he was trawling tapes to listen to in case there was something of interest .. so acetates were cut for him to do that

Andy

 

Edited by Andy Rix

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8 hours ago, Mace said:

Thanks again Robb, the date seemed odd because the DFTMC lists it as April 1962 Pic below), but you had mentioned in a previous post that some Motown acetates were made a few years after the Jobete publishing acetates, so guess this could be the case here?

Thanks to Lenny Harkins for additional info.

Regards

Mace

 

info.jpg

Certainly!  Motown acetates made to be demos for consideration for recording a song, or as a guide for the singer(s) could be made years later, IF the song was considered for recording years later.  It appears thgat this w\one was made for Mike Valvano, and/or as a guide for The Temptations to use in 1965.

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So, it's authentic then. Brilliant, good to know. Hooray to Mike Valvano. :thumbsup:
Thanks again everybody, including Mace, RobbK, Andy Rix, and snakepit. :thumbup:

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