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JulianB

Is it me, but?

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We have entered a strange period. Finally, a number of collectors are selling up due to old age and not surprisingly, want as much money for their rare records. However, many of these raritites are being offered at unrealistcally high prices.

The supply side of the equation is changing with multiple copies of rarities being offered at any given time. Some, but not all, dealers are offering their stock at competitive prices that are hard to ignore - look at what Pete Smith has moved on this week to see that bargains are still to be had.

The situation is going to change further in favour of the buyer. Already the market is being flooded by tasty items, too many at once if the truth be told, many of which are overvalued given what they cost just a few months ago.

Buyers should sit tight and wait for high-end prices to drop.

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One of the funniest items I've seen recently is a guy selling a 1980 reissue of Sweet Soul Music and adding his Ebay link :D

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13 hours ago, Sutty said:

I love the sales where the seller asks way above any reasonable price they’re going to get and makes the point that if no-one pays the price ‘THEY’RE GOING BACK IN THE BOX’! Here’s a bit of advice, don’t bother taking them out of ‘THE BOX’ lol 

Not sure I’ve even got a ‘BOX’, what do they look like?

good advice in fact why bother even saying it .

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Then of course, the old chestnut....rare and UNKNOWN.....if its unknown..then how do you justify 300quid (insert number of your choice)...if its NEVER been sold before because its unknown....then maybe a bit more realistic pricing is needed :-)

Edited by jez jones

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In my opinion, the only way to stop the astronomical pricing of records is just don't pay the prices being asked.I'm sure for the initiated this is the case. This us the only way to reverse the situation. As for the unitiated and not aware of the actual value they will be the ones responsible for the current situation.if the true value of a record was known to newcomers then it would certainly help to keep prices to a realistic value, how we achieve this with a benefit to all buyers is another story.  Regards Fred.

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Last night Gino Washington, the owner of washpan records declared he pressed 1000 copies of Tomangoes I really love you....

How much is the super rare disc fetching these days, assuming 500 copies survived?

It would be good to know some how some way, how many discs were made of our favourite rarest of the rare records !

Ed

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17 hours ago, JulianB said:

Seeing some of the prices being asked for set sales or auction bids are the sellers taking the piss?🤔

 

Ey up Julian! They will if you let them.Regards Fred.

Edited by Mr Fred

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17 hours ago, JulianB said:

Seeing some of the prices being asked for set sales or auction bids are the sellers taking the piss?🤔

 

I would like to think the sellers dont have any influence over final auction prices!

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When you already have three grand for your Mel Britt original on auction it's a bit much to still expect someone daft enough to pay anymore. 

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On 20/10/2017 at 11:17, jez jones said:

Then of course, the old chestnut....rare and UNKNOWN.....if its unknown..then how do you justify 300quid (insert number of your choice)...if its NEVER been sold before because its unknown....then maybe a bit more realistic pricing is needed :-)

A rare unknown in 2017 assuming its good would be serious money.

 

most things listed as semi or unknown are quite well known

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On 20/10/2017 at 12:06, tomangoes said:

Last night Gino Washington, the owner of washpan records declared he pressed 1000 copies of Tomangoes I really love you....

How much is the super rare disc fetching these days, assuming 500 copies survived?

It would be good to know some how some way, how many discs were made of our favourite rarest of the rare records !

Ed

It’s a lot to do with how many actually survived. Given the small number that have surfaced at auction in recent years, I would say very few sold initially so many must have been scrapped or still await discovery in a forgotten hoard. Even those snapped up in the hey-day of Wigan don’t seem to be too numerous given DJ playlists, set sales offers and recent collections put on the open market.

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3 hours ago, Mach said:

I wreckon it must be all the newbies to the scene who are wet behind the ears..you pay to learn

No, it’s more like the old-timers having a last shake of the dice to bag that favourite track that’s been eluding them for decades. Very few youngsters can throw away silly money of the sort that’s being discussed here.

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13 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

No, it’s more like the old-timers having a last shake of the dice to bag that favourite track that’s been eluding them for decades. Very few youngsters can throw away silly money of the sort that’s being discussed here.

Very few pensioners can afford to throw away silly money.  I would guess that young people with good jobs and no children are more likely to afford that.

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7 hours ago, RobbK said:

Very few pensioners can afford to throw away silly money.  I would guess that young people with good jobs and no children are more likely to afford that.

When reality kicks in with young folk then i think this generation have got it quite tough compared to previous.

There will be a short window when they ignore all this and spend as they please but it wont last long.

house prices are crazy, final salary pensions are gone, state pensions may be going or they wont get it until 70 ?

9k a year for a degree if you choose to do one.

some pensioners (not all) will have considerably more disposable income.

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On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 13:05, Mr Fred said:

In my opinion, the only way to stop the astronomical pricing of records is just don't pay the prices being asked.I'm sure for the initiated this is the case. This us the only way to reverse the situation. As for the unitiated and not aware of the actual value they will be the ones responsible for the current situation.if the true value of a record was known to newcomers then it would certainly help to keep prices to a realistic value, how we achieve this with a benefit to all buyers is another story.  Regards Fred.

But who is to say what the true/actual value is? The fact that certain now-pricey records (Innersection to name one) were soul pack material for Soul Bowl 40 odd years ago isn't really that relevant now, and neither is the "I paid a fiver in 1984" type talk.

Best,

Carl  

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1 hour ago, Ladymidnight said:

But who is to say what the true/actual value is? The fact that certain now-pricey records (Innersection to name one) were soul pack material for Soul Bowl 40 odd years ago isn't really that relevant now, and neither is the "I paid a fiver in 1984" type talk.

Best,

Carl  

I'd say it's really relevant how many copies have knocked about in the past. I wouldn't personally pay mega money for something Anderson had in bulk in the 80s. In fact these are the only things we have to go on in terms in the true value of records. Shouldn't rare records be rated by rarity rather than monetary value? 

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Yes, but many new buyers have come into play since then. Say for example 100 copies via Anderson or someone else late 70s/early 80s, not really that much given the amount of collectors. There's also the matter of whether one wants to wait another 5-10-15-20 years for prices to drop, which they may or may not do.

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4 minutes ago, Ladymidnight said:

Say for example 100 copies via Anderson or someone else late 70s/early 80s, not really that much

and probably a good percentage are no longer M-.

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Suspect some of the above is being fuelled by pension pots being cashed in then people realising that, 'Shit! My pension pot's gone!' and selling those once in a lifetime extravagant purchase back on.. 

Anyway, possibly going off topic... I am not in the market for top end records but what really pisses me off is that thanks to Discogs / Popsike the asking price for any half decent, but not particularly rare, record is the maximum price that some clueless loon has ever paid for it. So what we used to consider a £10 record is now £50 -£100. There are loads of copies available of 1000s of records like that at inflated prices that no one will ever buy. Not good for collectors and not sustainable for sellers...

 

Edited by son of stan

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I think some of the younger people on the scene are in part responsible for the rise in prices. Over the last year or two I've seen many instances on Facebook rare vinyl valuation pages where younger folk have "bigged up" prices for 45s when people have enquired about the value. Undoubtedly these are 45s they themselves own, possibly originally from "dad's" collection, and for which they've not actually had to fork out serious readies.

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How many records that would sell for a lot on the soul scene or to collectors are in the hands of people who dont know how much they are worth ?

Either people who left the scene years ago and dont know current values or collections that have ended up with other family members.

 

 

 

Edited by dylan

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46 minutes ago, dylan said:

How many records that would sell for a lot on the soul scene or to collectors are in the hands of people who dont know how much they are worth ?

Either people who left the scene years ago and dont know current values or collections that have ended up with other family members.

 

 

 

I think you make a very valid point going off my own experience. I have never really been aware of record prices until I joined this site, my knowledge has increased thanks to the guys on here though I'm largely still in the dark as to what most of my remaining collection  is actually worth, not much I suspect mostly in the £5 to twenty quid bracket I would guess. I suppose a few years ago I could have gone on various sites and checked current prices but as we know today that probably would not be a good guide to follow. A couple of examples to illustrate my point, after hearing on YouTube a Johnny Taylor I quite liked I looked on Ebay to see how much it goes for, turns out it was the b side to Disco Lady, having that on the shelf under the stairs I dug it out along with about fifteen others that I thought I'd check out the B sides plus a few A sides too. 

       One of the records I checked out on You tube was by the Delfonics which from memory I thought was going to be uptempo but turned out to be one of their ballads, when I saw the post was one of Manships I thought well it must have some worth which turned out to be £15 quid four years ago. I'd have happily sold it for a quid if asked, whether Manship got £15 quid or not is by the by, my point being I placed no value at all on it .Another I dug out was Spaceark Do What You Can Do, not a tune I particularly care for, don't know where it came from so out of interest looked it up on Discogs. Were it not for the knowledge I've gained on here regarding the current unrealistic high prices I'd have been a happy man, I would have looked no further than the one that is for sale with an asking price 5p short of £100, being a tad wiser I clicked on the one for sale to find a low price of £30 and a high of £70., again personal taste without checking I'd have been happy to get a tenner for it never mind the £30 low.  Further to illustrate your point my second thought was it legit or a pressing, if it had been one of my kids hoping my records were worth a fortune  they would have been unaware of pressings so maybe would have just slapped everything of ebay as originals. A case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing as they say.

    I think you are right in what you say that there are lots of people out there sitting on collections, not necessarily large collections totally unaware of the value of what they have stored in the loft Back in the seventies I had several mates who were into "soul music" who bought much the same as me, I know for a fact the majority of them lost interest in the music but for whatever reason didn't want to sell their records. I haven't seen some of those mates since those days but I wouldn't mind betting they held on to the records for sentimental reasons if nothing else.

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There's no definitive value of any record, though. Only what someone is prepared to pay for it. For higher end pieces, the value only represents what one person out of a handful of people globally is prepared and able to pay. For other records, most of the prices you see quoted for value nowadays are based on what someone is trying to sell it for online, not what it can be sold for.

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19 minutes ago, son of stan said:

For other records, most of the prices you see quoted for value nowadays are based on what someone is trying to sell it for online, not what it can be sold for.

Which in far fewer words is what I was clumsily trying to say 

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37 minutes ago, son of stan said:

There's no definitive value of any record, though. Only what someone is prepared to pay for it. For higher end pieces, the value only represents what one person out of a handful of people globally is prepared and able to pay. For other records, most of the prices you see quoted for value nowadays are based on what someone is trying to sell it for online, not what it can be sold for.

I agree no record has a definitive value.

 

but knowledge and experience will help a lot.  Its invaluble.

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Even as recently as the late 90s records that were easy to find $10 records are now fairly expensive amd some now regulary sell for over 100gbp.

 

plenty still at $10 though....

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3 hours ago, son of stan said:

There's no definitive value of any record, though. Only what someone is prepared to pay for it. For higher end pieces, the value only represents what one person out of a handful of people globally is prepared and able to pay. For other records, most of the prices you see quoted for value nowadays are based on what someone is trying to sell it for online, not what it can be sold for.

Many records have a history of sales and a price can be derived from this.  The top end of the market though is less so and all rhyme and reason has gone out of the window.  There does seem a lot of disposable income out there at the minute but there is also a lot of people letting the big hitters go.

I do disagree about the quoted values, the ones I usually see, or if I give one are for recent sales where ever possible.

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Some good average records were costing £50 / £60 thirty years or so ago and fetch the same or a bit more today, tacking account wages have shot up too, the young ones have money to spend and will pay £100 for a £50 record if it's not up for sale that often. I used to take £5 to spend on records and buy 3 at least lol. I was on £19 per week back then.

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On 24/10/2017 at 01:04, RobbK said:

Very few pensioners can afford to throw away silly money.  I would guess that young people with good jobs and no children are more likely to afford that.

It's quite the opposite in fact. 

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On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:06, tomangoes said:

Last night Gino Washington, the owner of washpan records declared he pressed 1000 copies of Tomangoes I really love you....

How much is the super rare disc fetching these days, assuming 500 copies survived?

It would be good to know some how some way, how many discs were made of our favourite rarest of the rare records !

Ed

Ive had maybe 5 copies over the years

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On 10/28/2017 at 11:23, Twoshoes said:

I think you make a very valid point going off my own experience. I have never really been aware of record prices until I joined this site, my knowledge has increased thanks to the guys on here though I'm largely still in the dark as to what most of my remaining collection  is actually worth, not much I suspect mostly in the £5 to twenty quid bracket I would guess. I suppose a few years ago I could have gone on various sites and checked current prices but as we know today that probably would not be a good guide to follow. A couple of examples to illustrate my point, after hearing on YouTube a Johnny Taylor I quite liked I looked on Ebay to see how much it goes for, turns out it was the b side to Disco Lady, having that on the shelf under the stairs I dug it out along with about fifteen others that I thought I'd check out the B sides plus a few A sides too. 

       One of the records I checked out on You tube was by the Delfonics which from memory I thought was going to be uptempo but turned out to be one of their ballads, when I saw the post was one of Manships I thought well it must have some worth which turned out to be £15 quid four years ago. I'd have happily sold it for a quid if asked, whether Manship got £15 quid or not is by the by, my point being I placed no value at all on it .Another I dug out was Spaceark Do What You Can Do, not a tune I particularly care for, don't know where it came from so out of interest looked it up on Discogs. Were it not for the knowledge I've gained on here regarding the current unrealistic high prices I'd have been a happy man, I would have looked no further than the one that is for sale with an asking price 5p short of £100, being a tad wiser I clicked on the one for sale to find a low price of £30 and a high of £70., again personal taste without checking I'd have been happy to get a tenner for it never mind the £30 low.  Further to illustrate your point my second thought was it legit or a pressing, if it had been one of my kids hoping my records were worth a fortune  they would have been unaware of pressings so maybe would have just slapped everything of ebay as originals. A case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing as they say.

    I think you are right in what you say that there are lots of people out there sitting on collections, not necessarily large collections totally unaware of the value of what they have stored in the loft Back in the seventies I had several mates who were into "soul music" who bought much the same as me, I know for a fact the majority of them lost interest in the music but for whatever reason didn't want to sell their records. I haven't seen some of those mates since those days but I wouldn't mind betting they held on to the records for sentimental reasons if nothing else.

I sent 500 copies of the Spaceark track to the UK in 1976.

Ian D :)

 

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On 23/10/2017 at 18:37, dylan said:

A rare unknown in 2017 assuming its good would be serious money.

 

most things listed as semi or unknown are quite well known

Exactly.  Who decided it's rare and unknown? The seller? How do they know ? Just a thought 

Steve 

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36 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

I sent 500 copies of the Spaceark track to the UK in 1976.

Ian D :)

 

I bought mine and was pleased to get one for less than £50for the welcome to my door side which is awesome. First heard it on a dj muro mix, and it's a popular track with breaks collectors. So possibly the rise in value is due to appeal on another scene. 

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Must admit I generally don't get involved in "prices paid threads" as we'll be turning over the same shock horror stories over and over till the cows come home. However I gotta admit I'm continually astounded by the sales techniques employed by many on the Discogs site.

For example: Seller A has record B for sale -so on checking sales statistics of said record - lowest price sold for £5, highest price sold for £15 median £10. That's fair enough. Then you realise Seller A has record B for sale at £80 (or summat equally mental). Eh? Where does that fit in?

I'm sure many on here - myself included - like to make as much money as possible when selling their records, that stands to reason, but if you really want to sell the records ya gotta be prepared to tweek the price. Better to accept less and shift it. Not like stating the bleedin obvious eh? (laughs)

It's a little known fact that I was once voted runner up in the Young Yorkshire Businessman of the Year Award circa 1977 (honest) then I started collecting originals and it all went bing bong.....

Dx

 

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:hatsoff2:HI ALL

As I have reached 65 yrs. I can't work out why at a time I would have thought it was the right time enjoy your music at your own leisure???,   As I have had 3 collections, the present on I started in 1986 concentrating on UK first  and classic US Northern Soul from 67 to 82 as played at venues I went to, I do not have a STAMP collectors mentality chasing things coz some has-been DJ plays it, you know who I mean those who have and still milk the scene dry,.

10 years ago I got 2 of the most knowledgeable collectors of venal, & named them in my will as my family don't want them, & if anyone thought they would chance their luck and try to mug them away well that can't happen,

Now it must be said there are not many collectors like myself who have a room full of 45, the old school collected everything,,  It is my opinion  that this is were the high prices That the majority of people who bought there records after 1990, have not wanted the old school way of collecting, couple of factors that have happened Price Guides and the Internet EBay made available certain records that were almost impossible, and the NEW AGE OF COUNTERFITS, OH! less I forget most DJs on the scene who play stuff to make a demand so they can sell off copies to punters, ending up with the high prices that people pay for records these days records the pre 1990 sold for a few pounds,

So to conclude where I have paid for example £15 for Alexander Patten or Carl Douglas & even 25p for Glenn Miller, there are many who have indeed spent hundred.

THIS IS MY GOSPAL,  KTF DAVE K:rofl:

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