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Possibly THE Rarest Soul 45?

Posted

Here's a link to a SoulfulDetroit thread where Ron Murphy talks about the copy he bought from the ARP employee in 84/85: http://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/154447.html?1188849916

They did a test run of six. Three were kept at ARP, and three were sent to Motown. The ARP employee kept one copy and threw out the other two.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Nick Soule said:

Here's a link to a SoulfulDetroit thread where Ron Murphy talks about the copy he bought from the ARP employee in 84/85: http://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/154447.html?1188849916

They did a test run of six. Three were kept at ARP, and three were sent to Motown. The ARP employee kept one copy and threw out the other two.

"They were from the 6 pressing plant test pressings. I had them in my hands many times. We had one in Tom DePierro's office. I NEVER SAW ANY black & White DJ issues of that record. If they existed, then there were a lot more than the 6 only that I had thought in existence. DJ copies were usually printed in runs of 100, sometimes 50, and once in a while, 25. That means there were at least 25 DJs, plus the 6 pressing demos"

from your link

 

Edited by Shufflin
typo

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Posted
4 hours ago, shufflin said:

"They were from the 6 pressing plant test pressings. I had them in my hands many times. We had one in Tom DePierro's office. I NEVER SAW ANY black & White DJ issues of that record. If they existed, then there were a lot more than the 6 only that I had thought in existence. DJ copies were usually printed in runs of 100, sometimes 50, and once in a while, 25. That means there were at least 25 DJs, plus the 6 pressing demos".

from your link

 

I wouldn't go THAT far.  It MAY be possible that they only ran 6 test pressings of the white DJ copy, to test before running the full DJ run, which Berry cancelled.  Then there would have been only 12 pressed (6 DJs, and 6 stockers).  Berry, not sure if Frank would decide to give up his singing career, might have decided not to run the full DJ run (of perhaps 200-300, or even 500) until Wilson gave his answer, but, he wanted both the test pressings of the DJs AND the stockers ready, to get production started as soon as possible, IF Wilson would decide against moving to Detroit and becoming a full-time Motown producer.

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Posted

I can't imagine it would have ever got a general release. 

Brilliant Northern Soul, but rubbish Motown Soul, compared to other Motown productions of the time.

Frank could not sing! Or at least not to the Motown standard.

Even the song only got tested on Chris Clark, so Berry probably could not stand that either.

Frank and Berry made the right choice....imo.

Ed

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Posted
9 hours ago, tomangoes said:

I can't imagine it would have ever got a general release. 

Brilliant Northern Soul, but rubbish Motown Soul, compared to other Motown productions of the time.

Frank could not sing! Or at least not to the Motown standard.

Even the song only got tested on Chris Clark, so Berry probably could not stand that either.

Frank and Berry made the right choice....imo.

Ed

I'm sure you are right.  But, had Frank made the wrong decision in Berry's eyes, there still may have been a "throwaway" limited release (maybe 300-500 pressed and released only in Detroit) , to "keep him happy", as was done with The Serenaders, Oma Heard, The Vows, The Creations (for Andre Williams), Hal Davis, and many others, with no marketing push, whatsoever, just to placate them.  It cost next to nothing, and was a tax write-off for the "standard amount for record production, despite Motown's actual cost for the "throwaways likely being less than the writeoff amount.

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Posted

clearly things have changed since the test press surfaced ...... but at the time I wrote this it was pretty definitive

Andy

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Posted
50 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

clearly things have changed since the test press surfaced ...... but at the time I wrote this it was pretty definitive

Andy

"Exactly how many copies were originally pressed has been debated at length for years. Many refuse to believe that Motown would go to the trouble of just pressing six copies but no concrete evidence has ever been presented to contradict the story as told by Ron."

they were 'preparing' the song for release? surely that would include an amount of radio station copies, anyway great article not seen it before,  thanks Andy

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Posted

they may have been a couple or  more in the pressing plant that got burnt down in 1971

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Posted

There's an article in the January 8, 1966 issue of Record World on page 3- "Tamla/ Motown Sets Major Expansion for 1966". In the article it mentions 

Motown "establishing new artists such as Tammi Terrell, The Monitors and Frank Wilson". 

   It makes you wonder if "DILY(IID)" was still being considered for release then.

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Posted
1 hour ago, shufflin said:

"Exactly how many copies were originally pressed has been debated at length for years. Many refuse to believe that Motown would go to the trouble of just pressing six copies but no concrete evidence has ever been presented to contradict the story as told by Ron."

they were 'preparing' the song for release? surely that would include an amount of radio station copies, anyway great article not seen it before,  thanks Andy

They were quality control/file copies by the looks of it.  The demos for radio station distribution would have come next once the ok was given, which never was.  The manager at ARP says only 6 done, as Andy says there is nothing to counter this argument, just speculation.  I'm more inclined to listen to what Ron Murphy and the ARP manager says than wikipedia.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, chalky said:

They were quality control/file copies by the looks of it.  The demos for radio station distribution would have come next once the ok was given, which never was.  The manager at ARP says only 6 done, as Andy says there is nothing to counter this argument, just speculation.  I'm more inclined to listen to what Ron Murphy and the ARP manager says than wikipedia.

chalky I'd moved on from the wiki thing, bit insulting that tbh but never mind

god forbid anyone asks questions about this subject

Edited by Shufflin

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Posted

Love it or hate it , for a throw away record sure has all the things that we love about rare soul records , to be honest I'm sick of all the analysing of what is a great so called n/s record  ,let's just embrace it for what it is , ain't we lucky barstards .👍🎶🎶

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Love it or hate it , for a throw away record sure has all the things that we love about rare soul records , to be honest I'm sick of all the analysing of what is a great so called n/s record  ,let's just embrace it for what it is , ain't we lucky barstards .👍🎶🎶

I agree, there is nothing to counter this speculation, just argument

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Posted

I can FINALLY announce where the record went and am very excited for it's release. Thanks to Jack White and Ben Blackwell for letting it stay in DETROIT!

We look forward to RSD 2018!  Pictures are on the Melodies & Memories facebook page.

FRANK WILSON'S "DO I LOVE YOU (INDEED I DO)" + CASS CORRIDOR RECORD STORE DAY FESTIVITIES
FRANK WILSON'S "DO I LOVE YOU (INDEED I DO)" + CASS CORRIDOR RECORD STORE DAY FESTIVITIES
Posted by on 29 March 2018
FRANK WILSON'S "DO I LOVE YOU (INDEED I DO)"
B/W "SWEETER AS THE DAYS GO BY" 7" SINGLE
ADDED TO RECORD STORE DAY RELEASES
In addition to our Record Store Exclusive releases previously announced, Third Man Records is proud to now include an additional title with an incredible story -- Frank Wilson's "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)" b/w "Sweeter As The Days Go By" 7" single. Never officially released by Motown Records at the time it was recorded, this single has long been the holy grail for both Motown and Northern Soul collectors.

 

Third Man will be reissuing this rare find on purple vinyl exclusively for Record Store Day 2018 as part of their continuing partnership with Motown/Universal. Each Record Store Day exclusive copy is hand-stamped with the inimitable "quality control" rubber stamp used on Motown test pressings and facsimile labels believed to be penned by the hand of famous Motown producer Norman Whitfield. This single will be available at participating Record Store Day retailers as well as both Third Man Records storefronts (the original test pressing will be on display at Third Man's Cass Corridor location), with a black vinyl non-exclusive 7" planned for release in the future.
Frank Wilson is now ultimately best known as a producer at Motown, but he was once an aspiring artist himself. In the lead up to the intended release of "Do I Love You", Motown executive Berry Gordy asked Wilson if he wanted to follow the path of an artist or a writer/producer. Wilson chose producer, and this single was left for dead by the label. But good songs almost always find their way into the canon, and with bootleg copies credited to Eddie Foster in hopes of obfuscating the original artist and origin story, this song became a staple of the British Northern Soul scene after one of the two previously known copies of the record was stolen from Motown in the 1970's. A third pristine test pressing appeared in the recent past at Melodies & Memories in Eastpointe, Michigan, and was subsequently sold by record owners Denise and Dan Zieja to Jack White.

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Posted

More to the point why do we need another pressing of it...Three copies (I know they are originals)? There are thousands about in various pressing, legal and not so. If any one wants one they are not hard to get hold of. I wonder if anyone has bought every label variant? I know I've got three UK legit copies and Eddie Foster pressing bought from the record bar at the Casino. It baffles me why its been pressed so many time, everyone who wants one must have one by now. Even Chris Evens plays his copy on radio 2 every now and then.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Nocker said:

More to the point why do we need another pressing of it...Three copies (I know they are originals)? There are thousands about in various pressing, legal and not so. If any one wants one they are not hard to get hold of. I wonder if anyone has bought every label variant? I know I've got three UK legit copies and Eddie Foster pressing bought from the record bar at the Casino. It baffles me why its been pressed so many time, everyone who wants one must have one by now. Even Chris Evens plays his copy on radio 2 every now and then.

We got to see it pressed.  The grape vinyl with the test pressing label and sleeve, this is the best by far!

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Posted
13 hours ago, Steve Lane said:

Do we know what it went for?

It's undisclosed for now, but it is the highest priced 45 ever sold.

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Posted
On 3/30/2018 at 13:47, Steve Lane said:

Do we know what it went for?

$75,000 has been mentioned but I don't know how true that is. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/31/2018 at 01:27, Nocker said:

More to the point why do we need another pressing of it...Three copies (I know they are originals)? There are thousands about in various pressing, legal and not so. If any one wants one they are not hard to get hold of. I wonder if anyone has bought every label variant? I know I've got three UK legit copies and Eddie Foster pressing bought from the record bar at the Casino. It baffles me why its been pressed so many time, everyone who wants one must have one by now. Even Chris Evens plays his copy on radio 2 every now and then.

I reckon they will try to push it Stateside, if it sells enough over there and they get a hit on their hands then it's all good and it will have been money well spent by Jack. I believe he owns (or at least has a hand in) the pressing plant where it is being pressed (Third Man Records).

Edited by Soul-Slider
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Posted

Mr  J. White is a serious collector, with a famous collection!  A recent purchase in 2015 was an Elvis acetate of , " My Happiness" his first release, Jackie released a copy with  cracks and pops in a brown sleeve ,the disc is valued at 300, 000 dollars!

Would guess he will do the same with Sergeant Wilson's. ? Highest price 45 is still estmated at £25,000 UK. So he must have paid upwards of that if seller Denise is correct in her assumption.? 

Good to know its gone to a fellow collector! Hope our adorable Pete Smith got a drink out of it?

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Posted
10 hours ago, Soul-Slider said:

$75,000 has been mentioned but I don't know how true that is. 

It's undisclosed at this point unless he decides to mention it.  It was the highest price 45 ever sold I can tell you.

 

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Posted
10 hours ago, Soul-Slider said:

I reckon they will try to push it Stateside, if it sells enough over there and they get a hit on their hands then it's all good and it will have been money well spent by Jack. I believe he owns (or at least has a hand in) the pressing plant where it is being pressed (Third Man Records).

We watched it being pressed last week.  Wonderful experience!

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

We watched it being pressed last week.  Wonderful experience!

 

did Jack mention if he plans on doing a cover version of it, like he did for Jolene live in Blackpool UK?

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Posted
On 31/03/2018 at 01:27, Nocker said:

More to the point why do we need another pressing of it...Three copies (I know they are originals)? There are thousands about in various pressing, legal and not so. If any one wants one they are not hard to get hold of. I wonder if anyone has bought every label variant? I know I've got three UK legit copies and Eddie Foster pressing bought from the record bar at the Casino. It baffles me why its been pressed so many time, everyone who wants one must have one by now. Even Chris Evens plays his copy on radio 2 every now and then.

Indeed, you've got four copies yourself. :thumbup:

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

We watched it being pressed last week.  Wonderful experience!

 

How much will the RSD release be sold for?

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Posted
8 minutes ago, shufflin said:

did Jack mention if he plans on doing a cover version of it, like he did for Jolene live in Blackpool UK?

He didn't mention, but that would be something for the books!

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Posted
8 minutes ago, maslar said:

Indeed, you've got four copies yourself. :thumbup:

Who wouldn't want a copy on purple vinyl with the test pressing label?  The record is incredible!

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, maslar said:

How much will the RSD release be sold for?

How much do you have?  ;-)

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

How much do you have?  ;-)

 

:huh:....... :g:

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

How much do you have?  ;-)

 

:D

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Soul-Slider said:

:D

I can be contacted on RSD or after to see what I have left.  We are also having an event that day with Jack White autographs up for grabs in drawings.  Billy Davis is going to do two sets.  Come on over!  :thumbup:

 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, maslar said:

:huh:....... :g:

:D

 

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

He didn't mention, but that would be something for the books!

please ask him and post back - would be something to behold ;-)

 

 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Denise Zieja said:

I can be contacted on RSD or after to see what I have left. 

 

Although you're not permitted to sell then online until 7 days after RSD of course... :wink:

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Posted
On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 19:38, gogs said:

I won't be listing them on line, but I know I can sell them internationally.  If anyone is interested, please contact me through my Facebook store.  Melodies & Memories

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Posted
On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 15:33, shufflin said:

please ask him and post back - would be something to behold ;-)

 

 

 

I won't be listing them on line, but I know I can sell them internationally.  If anyone is interested, please contact me through my Facebook store.  Melodies & Memories

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Posted
57 minutes ago, Denise Zieja said:

I won't be listing them on line, but I know I can sell them internationally.  If anyone is interested, please contact me through my Facebook store.  Melodies & Memories

In contravention of the RSD code of conduct. All credit to you for finding and selling the Test Pressing but this seems pretty unfair to RSD shops who play by the rules and customers who get in line on the day to secure the releases they need :(

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Posted

I think the point is that Denise will be selling what is left. After RSD. Or at least that's how I understand it.

The other day I read any article in a german record collector's mag about Jack White, Third Man Records and his exploits in pressing vinyl records. Very interesting. He did not just set up Third Man Records to release contemporary recordings and re-release rare old records. But also to experiment with how to press records. E.g. there's an LP pressed in clear vinyl with blue liquid inside. How cool is that?

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Posted

Sorry for the 2 down votes as i wouldn't be interested in purchasing this yet another copy, but as a lot of people (myself included) do a lot of their buying online i think that you are missing out on a bigger market.

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Posted

@Gogs: you downvoted my post. Why?

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Posted
35 minutes ago, Benji said:

@Gogs: you downvoted my post. Why?

Sorry Benji. i mis-read your post, i originally thought that you where agreeing with Denise. Down vote has been removed

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Posted
On 04/04/2018 at 00:38, gogs said:

This release to me has zero interest. The label looks terrible. It's just kitsch. There are already legitimate UK issues. How can a record release be "limited edition" when it's still being sold five years after its release? It's also listed as faulty. Why would anyone spend £10.00 on this. its just a standard release. A fiver at most. Remember the old bargain bins -that's where it should be. Two or three quid.

The RSD edition on the other hand is a different matter from a collecting pont of view:

1 It's a legitimate US release

2 Although I don't know how many have been pressed I'm sure it will be a true limited edition.

3 It's in a distinct format - appearance: vinyl and label.

It's really strange how very few on the northern scene seem to get the concept of format in record collecting.  It's pretty narrow minded.  It would be like asking a collector why they have foreign releases - French, Spanish, Italian of the same record. It's so basic there really shouldn't be any need to explain it. 

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I would love to hear Do I Love You one more time ...

Edited by sunnysoul

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Posted
8 hours ago, Benji said:

I think the point is that Denise will be selling what is left. After RSD. Or at least that's how I understand it.

Yeah I get that Benji. Her post suggested that she would be doing so straight after RSD. I can’t sell it via the internet until 7 days after RSD and that’s what I was referring to. Apologies to all if I’ve misunderstood   :wink:

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Posted
9 hours ago, maslar said:

This release to me has zero interest. The label looks terrible. It's just kitsch. There are already legitimate UK issues. How can a record release be "limited edition" when it's still being sold five years after its release? It's also listed as faulty. Why would anyone spend £10.00 on this. its just a standard release. A fiver at most. Remember the old bargain bins -that's where it should be. Two or three quid.

The RSD edition on the other hand is a different matter from a collecting pont of view:

1 It's a legitimate US release

2 Although I don't know how many have been pressed I'm sure it will be a true limited edition.

3 It's in a distinct format - appearance: vinyl and label.

It's really strange how very few on the northern scene seem to get the concept of format in record collecting.  It's pretty narrow minded.  It would be like asking a collector why they have foreign releases - French, Spanish, Italian of the same record. It's so basic there really shouldn't be any need to explain it. 

Ok maybe the one i showed was not a good example, but my point is still the same. Loads of different issues why do we need another one?

A quick check on ebay shows these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRANK-WILSON-DO-I-LOVE-YOU-indeed-I-do-CHRIS-CLARK-DO-I-LOVE-YOU-mint/401505466634?hash=item5d7b97390a:g:MqoAAOSwiqdapVGM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Frank-Wilson-Do-I-Love-You-Indeed-I-Do-Sweeter-As-The-Days-7-VINYL-NEW-13-APR/112885289744?hash=item1a487cd310:g:cMkAAOSwdGJas3Wu

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRANK-WILSON-DO-I-LOVE-YOU-indeed-I-do-THE-ORIGINALS-SUSPICION-mint/401505465144?hash=item5d7b973338:g:N~oAAOSwUN9apVDJ

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRANK-WILSON-DO-I-LOVE-YOU-INDEED-I-DO-INSTRUMENTAL-40th-ANNIVERSAY/292473476790?hash=item4418c716b6:g:~RwAAOSwmCVY8p5L

All different issues. and this does not include the 60's/70's 3 issues.

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Posted
On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 19:38, gogs said:

 

17 hours ago, Benji said:

I think the point is that Denise will be selling what is left. After RSD. Or at least that's how I understand it.

The other day I read any article in a german record collector's mag about Jack White, Third Man Records and his exploits in pressing vinyl records. Very interesting. He did not just set up Third Man Records to release contemporary recordings and re-release rare old records. But also to experiment with how to press records. E.g. there's an LP pressed in clear vinyl with blue liquid inside. How cool is that?

Why would you not want a copy with the test pressing label and delicious purple vinyl!  Purple vinyl that is the color of the soul label, but not less than 10 pounds.

Exactly Benji!

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