Darrell Banks Open The Door - bootleg info

[Chris L 2,315]

1 hour ago, maslar said:

Focussing on the 201 would it be possible to produce a (near?) definitive list of legitimate issue (and reissues). and then those that are not. Including styene and vinyl versions that could once and for all put an end to any confusion. The info tends to get fragmented then re-run, then misinterpreted etc etc. E.g. is it now established that there were pink (and grey?) label vinyl issues released originally?

 

Depends who you ask, I believe it to be true.

[Guest]

On 22/02/2018 at 14:59, soulhawk said:

they used the same run of labels on the vinyl and styrene, so what?

the guy we are talking about is Darrell Banks, not 'Darrel Banks' 

at least spell his name right

 

 

Really? 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Guest

[Kegsy 5,267]

I'm  pretty sure I saw one spelt like that one Sunday morning, on the services after the Torch. 

[Tlscapital 752]

21 hours ago, the yank said:

Where is this "typo" ????

Also- I don't know why you would think this was a photocopied label. If you look at the logo on the grey styrene copy , The Revilot is lower and the line underneath

the logo is at a different angle. If this was photocopied wouldn't it  look exactly the same ?

 

Typos are all the credentials, title, artists... all the styrene Revilot used the same fonts where the Revilot vinyls had variant/different fonts. Meaning different pressing plants.

But they are exactly the same ??? Here first styrene (promo) and then the light grey vinyl press...

[Shinehead 1,860]

I do not think it has been mentioned but label variations as in the typos , artist , title etc could just be a printing variation.

Labels are printed first the background and Label name on large sheets then cut down and held in stock at the printers then the titles etc would then be added later on request of the record company .

The difference in types could just be the compositor using different fonts for the printing blocks when assembled prior to overprinting the title etc.

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by shinehead

[The Yank 2,062]

31 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

Typos are all the credentials, title, artists... 

I just checked the definition of typo in the dictionary and it says "an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material"

   Don't think it has anything to do with different pressing plants changing the type of font used. 

[Tlscapital 752]

16 minutes ago, the yank said:

I just checked the definition of typo in the dictionary and it says "an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material"

   Don't think it has anything to do with different pressing plants changing the type of font used. 

Sorry but https://www.typography.com

Again but... this is going to be too lengthy.

[Kegsy 5,267]

1 hour ago, tlscapital said:

Sorry but https://www.typography.com

Again but... this is going to be too lengthy.

Was this website available when the record was supposedly bootlegged ?.

[Tlscapital 752]

3 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Was this website available when the record was supposedly bootlegged ?.

This record is sooo ooold ! It's pre-historic, tintenet wasn't even born !

[The Yank 2,062]

4 hours ago, Steve Lane said:

Now that's what I call a typo !!

 

 

[Kegsy 5,267]

1 hour ago, tlscapital said:

This record is sooo ooold ! It's pre-historic, tintenet wasn't even born !

Well fuck my old boots, no shit sherlock.

[Kris Holmes 325]

On 2/23/2018 at 03:31, maslar said:

Focussing on the 201 would it be possible to produce a (near?) definitive list of legitimate issue (and reissues). and then those that are not. Including styene and vinyl versions that could once and for all put an end to any confusion. The info tends to get fragmented then re-run, then misinterpreted etc etc. E.g. is it now established that there were pink (and grey?) label vinyl issues released originally?

 

OK, as far as I can figure, please correct me though.....

Revilot 201

White label promo styrene stamped - legit

White label promo styrene scratched - legit

Grey label styrene stamped - legit

Grey label styrene scratched - legit

Grey label vinyl scratched - uncertain but probably legit

Pink label styrene stamped - legit

Pink label styrene scratched - legit

Pink label styrene one side scratched & one side stamped - legit

Pink (darker) label vinyl scratched (small letters) - uncertain but probably legit

Pink (lighter) label vinyl scratched (large letters) - counterfeit 

 

I think where everyone is getting messed up is the two pink vinyl scratched variants are not the same.  On the prob legit one the label is an even slightly darker pink that the styrenes & the number is scratched very small in the runout.  On the counterfeit the label is a lighter pink than the styrenes & the number is scratched very large.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Kris Holmes
Words

[noss 11]

5 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

OK, as far as I can figure, please correct me though.....

Revilot 201

White label promo styrene stamped - legit

White label promo styrene scratched - legit

Grey label styrene stamped - legit

Grey label styrene scratched - legit

Grey label vinyl scratched - uncertain but probably legit

Pink label styrene stamped - legit

Pink label styrene scratched - legit

Pink label styrene one side scratched & one side stamped - legit

Pink (darker) label vinyl scratched (small letters) - uncertain but probably legit

Pink (lighter) label vinyl scratched (large letters) - counterfeit 

 

I think where everyone is getting messed up is the two pink vinyl scratched variants are not the same.  On the prob legit one the label is an even slightly darker pink that the styrenes & the number is scratched very small in the runout.  On the counterfeit the label is a lighter pink than the styrenes & the number is scratched very large.

Here is my vinyl copy, if it helps. It is quite different to the light pink bootlegs, which are very obviously fakes.

[maslar 1,614]

10 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

OK, as far as I can figure, please correct me though.....

Revilot 201

White label promo styrene stamped - legit

White label promo styrene scratched - legit

Grey label styrene stamped - legit

Grey label styrene scratched - legit

Grey label vinyl scratched - uncertain but probably legit

Pink label styrene stamped - legit

Pink label styrene scratched - legit

Pink label styrene one side scratched & one side stamped - legit

Pink (darker) label vinyl scratched (small letters) - uncertain but probably legit

Pink (lighter) label vinyl scratched (large letters) - counterfeit 

 

I think where everyone is getting messed up is the two pink vinyl scratched variants are not the same.  On the prob legit one the label is an even slightly darker pink that the styrenes & the number is scratched very small in the runout.  On the counterfeit the label is a lighter pink than the styrenes & the number is scratched very large.

Excellent info.

[Garethx 1,008]

I think Kris's summing up is correct. To add to the above all the legit US copies are pressed at the three Columbia plants which existed at the time: Pitman, NJ; Terra Haute, IN; and Santa Clara, CA. All these plants had the ability to press styrene and vinyl. Sometimes the plants used identification marks on 45s but not always. A backwards S for Santa Clara, an incomplete P for Pitman. The label artwork would have originated at Columbia's Custom Office in Chicago and was used for all regional releases.

Such a minefield with the two DB titles on Revilot. Add the two British presses (Stateside and London), two Canadian presses (Revilot and Quality). Plus "Somebody (Somewhere) Needs You" with two different Publishing credits (T.M. Parmalier and Jobete) which seem to exist on both pink and grey issues. I've never seen a demo of RV-203 with the Jobete publishing credit but wouldn't be surprised if one might exist. Seems to be a case of Revilot using a Motown song without having to account for it. The company's business practices sound distinctly lassez-faire in terms of licensing and accounting.

The definitive tell with "Open The Door" Revilot bootleg seems to be very pale pink labels and the typesetting of the credits is indistinct/blurred compared to original copies. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by garethx

[Garethx 1,008]

The majority of the later pink Revilots on vinyl are pressed at ARP in Michigan.

Edited March 2, 2018 by garethx

[KevH 4,742]

17 hours ago, garethx said:

I think Kris's summing up is correct. To add to the above all the legit US copies are pressed at the three Columbia plants which existed at the time: Pitman, NJ; Terra Haute, IN; and Santa Clara, CA. All these plants had the ability to press styrene and vinyl. Sometimes the plants used identification marks on 45s but not always. A backwards S for Santa Clara, an incomplete P for Pitman. The label artwork would have originated at Columbia's Custom Office in Chicago and was used for all regional releases.

Such a minefield with the two DB titles on Revilot. Add the two British presses (Stateside and London), two Canadian presses (Revilot and Quality). Plus "Somebody (Somewhere) Needs You" with two different Publishing credits (T.M. Parmalier and Jobete) which seem to exist on both pink and grey issues. I've never seen a demo of RV-203 with the Jobete publishing credit but wouldn't be surprised if one might exist. Seems to be a case of Revilot using a Motown song without having to account for it. The company's business practices sound distinctly lassez-faire in terms of licensing and accounting.

The definitive tell with "Open The Door" Revilot bootleg seems to be very pale pink labels and the typesetting of the credits is indistinct/blurred compared to original copies. 

Hi Gareth, I have heard that some UK presses were taken directly from the US issued record. Is there any evidence that this could include the DB - Open the door , on Stateside?

[Garethx 1,008]

Tony Rounce once gave a very helpful explanation of the process by which US discs were dubbed at EMI studios by expert engineering staff for UK release. These dubs had their own mastering details machined in. I'm pretty sure this is the case with DB on Stateside. Whether this was also the case with the London release with a similar process undertaken at Decca I'm not sure. 

[KevH 4,742]

So when you say dubbed do you mean recorded, (in this case,DB)  directly from a Revilot issue. ?

[Kris Holmes 325]

Correct

[Wheelsville1 129]

35 minutes ago, Kris Holmes said:

Correct

I was always led to believe that open the door on London was taken straight off the Revilot record. 

[ez 21]

I have nothing constructive to add but I am amazed such a common 45(in the US) was bootlegged. I just saw another copy in the $1 bin yesterday that I left behind. Been meaning to check my copies(pink and grey) to see which I have. I've left many other copies behind in $1 bins but have placed it in front in hopes that someone would pick it up.

[Tlscapital 752]

Traditionally in Europe records were dubbed from"imports" so most unlikely from "tapes/reels" most of the times.

[Joesoap 292]

It was quite a big hit in the US. Couldn't this be a case of a local label (Revilot) with not much capital and apparently without a national distribution deal getting them pressed up in batches, left, right and centre to keep up with demand?

The UK release on Stateside wasn't a hit but there was a steady demand for it which led to it being kept on catalogue and available to order from high street retailers for ages, which explains why that is so common.

Can't see why anyone would have risked their stake money bootlegging such an easily and cheaply obtainable record.

 

[Chris L 2,315]

Anybody shed some light on this, it kinda looks legit, maybe a Canada re-issue ?

[The Yank 2,062]

I think this might have been a  U.S. bootleg label - all the other releases are from all over the place- Shirley Ellis "Soul Time", Parliaments "I Wanna Testify",

 Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs- "May I", the C.O.Ds- "Michael".  I have the Parliaments on Canadian Transworld and I've seen the Darrell Banks on other Canadian labels so I suspect this is from the U.S. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by the yank

[Kris Holmes 325]

6 hours ago, the yank said:

I think this might have been a  U.S. bootleg label - all the other releases are from all over the place- Shirley Ellis "Soul Time", Parliaments "I Wanna Testify",

 Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs- "May I", the C.O.Ds- "Michael".  I have the Parliaments on Canadian Transworld and I've seen the Darrell Banks on other Canadian labels so I suspect this is from the U.S. 

correct

[The Yank 2,062]

Print ad for the Classic 45....  Sorry this print is so big! 

Edited March 26, 2018 by the yank