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If the term northern soul had not come about ?


Rick Scott
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Well there is a Question to ponder With, seeing as how people like to "Pigeon Hole" Music and everything else under the sun, but it is worth asking, as it could have changed the whole Soul Scene as we know it Today If the term Northern Soul Had NOT been Coined. So, Seconds Away, Round One :wicked:

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Before that term started being bandied about they were simply known as soul records, or, believe it or not, "disco records".

 

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Guest Spain pete

 It's all soulful music and l'm sure that if a lot of people were honest,  something they heard on the radio when they were tied to their mothers apron strings  ,grabbed their attention and  their life long addiction to   soul music was formed , of course we all know in any scene their will be people that jump on and off when it suits, but most soul folk l know   hear music that grabs them by the balls and will continue to seek out music with feeling in whatever form that comes in , Dave's got a lot to answer for , IMO. 🎶🎶

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Northern Soul is just a name! Like any other name!

The phenomenon had to be called something, so people would know what we were talking about!

Edited by Guest
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4 hours ago, Dayo said:

Before that term started being bandied about they were simply known as soul records, or, believe it or not, "disco records".

 

American imports we called em!

 

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Guest Shufflin

Speed Beat Soul

get me coat:D

 

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Some interesting points, over the years some events preferred to promote their Nites as Rare Soul Nites and distance themselves from the Northern Soul Tag

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When I was a lad we simply referred to it as "the scene" back in 1972. And people would ask if you were "on the scene". This was how we referred to it Newton Aycliffe Youth Centre anyway..

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Just now, jim g said:

When I was a lad we simply referred to it as "the scene" back in 1972. And people would ask if you were "on the scene". This was how we referred to it Newton Aycliffe Youth Centre anyway..

yea, me too :yes:

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Guest Spain pete

When l was a lad down South   b/s had full page adverts for Major Lance's newest northern soul hit  , um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um WTF? 😱

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2 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

When l was a lad down South   b/s had full page adverts for Major Lance's newest northern soul hit  , um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um WTF? 😱

Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth :rofl:

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It’s been said many times before,that DG had christened the scene”NS”,....was this in print,or was it just a throw away comment that spiraled out of control?...BTW, the  “christening“was way before my time... :huh: ...

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Soul music that people from the North bought more often,Than the funky stuff they bought down south,Northern Soul,Who gives a sh*te really,You either like it or you don't,It was Northern Soul and it is Northern Soul !

 

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Guest Shufflin
8 minutes ago, MGM 1251 said:

It’s been said many times before,that DG had christened the scene”NS”,....was this in print,or was it just a throw away comment that spiraled out of control?...BTW, the  “christening“was way before my time... :huh: ...

he came up with it to help his store staff, so when people came in asking for records, if they were northerners, they would be offered the uptempo 'northern soul sounds' rather than the mod/jazz/rock and roll / r&b stuff southerners have always been into and still are :wink:

yes it's in print, in interviews

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11 minutes ago, shufflin said:

he came up with it to help his store staff, so when people came in asking for records, if they were northerners, they would be offered the uptempo 'northern soul sounds' rather than the mod/jazz/rock and roll / r&b stuff southerners have always been into and still are :wink:

yes it's in print, in interviews

Wasnt there a thread about an advert for a Manchester band who played at the wheel and used the term to promote themselves? Havent dreamt this have it? It preceeded godin's use in print by a couple of years. Thus disputing his first use in print accolade. 

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12 hours ago, jim g said:

When I was a lad we simply referred to it as "the scene" back in 1972. And people would ask if you were "on the scene". This was how we referred to it Newton Aycliffe Youth Centre anyway..

The scene - yes that rings a bell.  "So-and-so is on the scene - do you know him?" etc.  

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15 hours ago, geeselad said:

Wasnt there a thread about an advert for a Manchester band who played at the wheel and used the term to promote themselves? Havent dreamt this have it? It preceeded godin's use in print by a couple of years. Thus disputing his first use in print accolade. 

There is, I've seen it and may have saved it in my docs somewhere. I'll look for it.

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5 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

If the term hadn't been coined in regard to that certain type of music, then the 'scene' would've become pretty much the way a lot of it is nowadays, a mixed bag of Funk/Jazz/Soul/RNB/Blues/DooWop/Disco etc, where as the christening of the scene as 'Northern Soul' did result in a grouping together of a certain type of stellar sounds, some bearing little relation to 'actual' soul music itself. So without the moniker I reckon it would've been out there but mixed in with a whole lot of other stuff and not had the same impact as it had being grouped together and played as one genre (although obviously we know it encompasses many genres musically speaking) therefore I think it was a good thing it was assigned a 'type' with it's own distinct name as it grouped together a certain flavour of sound that although still being in the mix, wouldn't have stood out in the same way it has.

If that makes sense to anyone? It felt great in my mind... ;)

 

Agree 100%

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Harlem Johns Reshuffle were a northern soul covers band managed by an agency In Wigan.The band were from Oldham and as you can see in 69 they were advertised as northern soul.They played covers of Looking For A Fox/Open The Door etc etc. They alsio played Wigan Casino.....the term had been used before by St Louis Union but I think this group were the catalyst for the term.Can anyone pin point Dave Godin using it?

 

Harlem-John-Reshuffle-ad.jpg

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22 hours ago, geeselad said:

Wasnt there a thread about an advert for a Manchester band who played at the wheel and used the term to promote themselves? Havent dreamt this have it? It preceeded godin's use in print by a couple of years. Thus disputing his first use in print accolade. 

Here you go, scroll down a bit and you will see a gig ad for St. Louis Union 'The Group On The Northern Soul Scene'....this must have been in the 1960's surely!!!

https://www.manchesterbeat.com/groups/stlouisunion/stlouisunion.php

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I have this it is from the R&B scene mag from 64/65 but It was really describing a live band scene....Harlem Johns Reshuffle were using it to describe the records that we recognise as the Northern Soul Scene. They were covering  Looking For A fox(Clarence Carter)/My Elusive Dreams (Moses and Joshua Dillard)/Open The Door To Your Heart (Darrell Banks)/ You Are The One I Love (Adams Apples).Let Love Come Between Us (James And Bobby ), Come Back Girl (Jackie Edwards)/Down In The Valley etc.....

Edited by wiggyflat
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Guest Spain pete
25 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

Soft Southern Soul.

Across the board all points of the compass soul 😱🎶

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2 hours ago, wiggyflat said:

Harlem Johns Reshuffle were a northern soul covers band managed by an agency In Wigan.The band were from Oldham and as you can see in 69 they were advertised as northern soul.They played covers of Looking For A Fox/Open The Door etc etc. They alsio played Wigan Casino.....the term had been used before by St Louis Union but I think this group were the catalyst for the term.Can anyone pin point Dave Godin using it?

 

Harlem-John-Reshuffle-ad.jpg

My Mum went out with the drummer from HJR during her "between husbands" years. 1971 if I remember correctly. Met him, I think, one night at the Candlelight club in Oldham. He was a tall skinny bloke called Bob. Always wore an Afghan coat. They were actually a pretty good band, and garnered a fair bit of critical acclaim, even if most of it was only local. 

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, wiggyflat said:

Harlem Johns Reshuffle were a northern soul covers band managed by an agency In Wigan.The band were from Oldham and as you can see in 69 they were advertised as northern soul.They played covers of Looking For A Fox/Open The Door etc etc. They alsio played Wigan Casino.....the term had been used before by St Louis Union but I think this group were the catalyst for the term.Can anyone pin point Dave Godin using it?

 

Harlem-John-Reshuffle-ad.jpg

Sorry to rain on your parade but that poster is advertising a gig in Aylesbury , Bucks ... i.e. down South ,  by a band from Oldham ... i.e Oop North , a band who predominantly perfomed cover versions of soul tunes , only natural for them to be billed as a "Northern Soul and Action Group".

Had the typesetter not given the word 'northern' a capital letter it would be be easier read as intended , in other words "a top Soul and Action Group from the north"  ... :thumbsup:

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Guest Spain pete
20 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

Sorry to rain on your parade but that poster is advertising a gig in Aylesbury , Bucks ... i.e. down South ,  by a band from Oldham ... i.e Oop North , a band who predominantly perfomed cover versions of soul tunes , only natural for them to be billed as a "Northern Soul and Action Group".

Had the typesetter not given the word 'northern' a capital letter it would be be easier read as intended , in other words "a top Soul and Action Group from the north"  ... :thumbsup:

Spot on !  DAVE RULES OK  😱

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19 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Spot on !  DAVE RULES OK  😱

Ok fair cop, dave still rules, couldnt remember the details but thought it relevant to bring it up. 

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Guest Spain pete
2 minutes ago, geeselad said:

Ok fair cop, dave still rules, couldnt remember the details but thought it relevant to bring it up. 

 Fair play to yer for bringing it up , that's why we love this site 👏🎶🎶

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On 4/16/2018 at 22:13, MGM 1251 said:

It’s been said many times before,that DG had christened the scene”NS”,....was this in print,or was it just a throw away comment that spiraled out of control?...BTW, the  “christening“was way before my time... :huh: ...

I know I've ranted about this before, but it's complete bollocks that uptempo sixties soul music wasn't popular in the south in the early 70s.  There were specialist shops that sold imports, and radio stations which played soul/r&b.  Uptempo soul may not have exploded into the mainstream like it did (mainly) in the north, but it always had a solid and steady following.  In my home town of Cambridge there were places you could regularly go to and hear and dance to soul, and there was a dedicated "nothern soul" club in the early 70s.

I think this early 70s north/south split thing is just an example of something burnt out journos always do to try to inject a bit of passion into their dull reporting.  Think of Beatles v Stones, Blur v Oasis, Yoko Ono v everyone in the UK, etc.

I suspect that if DG really ever did say to his shop staff "show them the northern soul" when visiting football supporters from Manchester came into his shop, this was possibly a secret codeword which actually meant "tell them it's shit rare and charge them double". :shhh:

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10 hours ago, WoodButcher said:

Sorry to rain on your parade but that poster is advertising a gig in Aylesbury , Bucks ... i.e. down South ,  by a band from Oldham ... i.e Oop North , a band who predominantly perfomed cover versions of soul tunes , only natural for them to be billed as a "Northern Soul and Action Group".

Had the typesetter not given the word 'northern' a capital letter it would be be easier read as intended , in other words "a top Soul and Action Group from the north"  ... :thumbsup:

I get it, A Northern, Soul And Action Group just needed a comma.....however how do you explain this one then?

5ad703b53a2c4_Screenshot2018-04-18at9_34_38AM.png.9ed07d626fdf3a3bfc20169e46d2d91d.png

 

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2 minutes ago, Soul-Slider said:

I get it, A Northern, Soul And Action Group just needed a comma.....however how do you explain this one then?

5ad703b53a2c4_Screenshot2018-04-18at9_34_38AM.png.9ed07d626fdf3a3bfc20169e46d2d91d.png

 

Takes up less print than "....the Soul Scene in the North"?

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Years ago I had a trawl through my old copies of Blues & Soul to try and find when the term started to be used.  In all honesty I can't recall the result, but it's probably much later than most people think.  In 72 there were tons of references to the North, usually in John Abbey's snidey record reviews; "Here's yet another forgettable record that's sure to find favour in Northern discos" etc.  There was the Northern Soul Club, of course - but I think that was a little later (forget who was behind that now).

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1 hour ago, Soul-Slider said:

I get it, A Northern, Soul And Action Group just needed a comma.....however how do you explain this one then?

5ad703b53a2c4_Screenshot2018-04-18at9_34_38AM.png.9ed07d626fdf3a3bfc20169e46d2d91d.png

 

that's the one ive seen before! godin a false prophet!

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Have to say I have leaned a great deal of information i was NOT aware of when i started this thread, so a big THANK YOU for all your contributions, Keep it going Lads And Lasses, very interesting insight to our wonderful Scene.

Edited by RICK SCOTT
spelling correction
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A few local newspapers are starting to become available on line.

It's only a few so this is far from scientific - but this is the first mention I could find of the term "Northern Soul." Coventry Evening Telegraph. August 1974

If it was used in an advert like this it must have been a recognisable and understood term for a while prior to then.

P.S. Ironical that a Coventry newspaper couldn't spell Coventry! :)

NS.jpg

Edited by MBarrett
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1 minute ago, MBarrett said:

A few local newspapers are starting to become available on line.

It's only a few so this is far from scientific - but this is the first mention I could find of the term "Northern Soul." Coventry Evening Telegraph. August 1974

If it was used in an advert like this it must have been a recognisable and understood term for a while prior to then.

NS.jpg

Wonder what the other 25% was?

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3 minutes ago, MBarrett said:

A few local newspapers are starting to become available on line.

It's only a few so this is far from scientific - but this is the first mention I could find of the term "Northern Soul." Coventry Evening Telegraph. August 1974

If it was used in an advert like this it must have been a recognisable and understood term for a while prior to then.

P.S. Ironical that a Coventry newspaper couldn't spell Coventry! :)

NS.jpg

A good ten years before my time on the scene and a year before my lass started, how I'd love to be able to go back in time and attend something like this, especially in Industrial Coventry in the early 70s!

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Guest Spain pete

SOUL!  🎶

2 hours ago, Steve S 60 said:

Wonder what the other 25% was?

Soul!🎶

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Guest Spain pete
2 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

A good ten years before my time on the scene and a year before my lass started, how I'd love to be able to go back in time and attend something like this, especially in Industrial Coventry in the early 70s!

Probably played mainstream stax ,Atlantic , and Motown , nowt wrong with that .🎶👍

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13 hours ago, Soul-Slider said:

I get it, A Northern, Soul And Action Group just needed a comma.....however how do you explain this one then?

5ad703b53a2c4_Screenshot2018-04-18at9_34_38AM.png.9ed07d626fdf3a3bfc20169e46d2d91d.png

 

The explanation is simply that the urban myth that DG "invented" the term "northern soul" because people in the south were only interested in disco and hard funk is complete bollocks.

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