The rise of the 'NEW' soulie and the soul revolution.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

It IS that yes, I'm not enforcing any rules about being on-topic. Anything goes with me on this thread, like Freebasing only we aren't discussing Footie and stuff.

As far as I'm concerned as long as it's relevant to the soul scene we enjoy today it's good to go!

That is a green light to say anything you like, OVO, New blood, soul fashion at events, irritating things about folks old and new, women's flat shoes vs Stilettos ... 

I told you I shouldn't have bloody well commented on this thread didn't I? Look what's happened. And now you've only gone and given me the green light to say ANYTHING!!!!  

[Peter99]

4 minutes ago, Joey said:

What I still don't get, is why a classic tune would be dismissed and never played just because it had been booted and/or reissued. And still no one has given me an adequate answer.  Are people so scared of playing something because a punter may think it's a boot? 

 

I don’t think I have misunderstood you at all. You’re missing a one word answer to your question/point - it’s really, really simple. 

Supply.

Sorry to be pedantic but your assertion that the scene met with its demise in the mid 70’s is quite incredible and simply not true. Obviously, it may well have died off in your very personal world, but that is completely different. 

[Guest Spain pete]

Once played out Michael Watford's baby love on a cassette , tough one to find on vinyl . all about the music for me .

[Colnago]

35 minutes ago, Joey said:

But this was my point. I'd asked why "This man" never seems to get any plays, and the reply was that it was probably because it'd been booted, and booted very convincingly. To me, that's no reason not to play a tune. 

The OVO thing is, if you sit down and think about it for a moment, absolutely crazy. Why transport several hundred fragile records, most of which are worth well into four figures, to DJ with them? When alternatives are available. What are you, as a DJ, actually doing here? Are you playing records for people to dance to, or are you showing off your huge collection of rarities, whist at the same time massaging your own ego? It smacks of a pissing contest to me at times. The same was apt back in the early seventies, although back then, any collection was more likely to be stolen from you rather than lost or damaged. It made complete sense to keep all your Stateside demos etc. at home, and use alternatives, be they reissues or whatever. You wouldn't believe it, but people actually danced, and didn't mind!!!!!!

But joey , and it’s a big one imo, most of the guys playing boots don’t have the originals at home and probably never will.

[Peter99]

6 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

It IS that yes, I'm not enforcing any rules about being on-topic. Anything goes with me on this thread, like Freebasing only we aren't discussing Footie and stuff.

As far as I'm concerned as long as it's relevant to the soul scene we enjoy today it's good to go!

That is a green light to say anything you like, OVO, New blood, soul fashion at events, irritating things about folks old and new, women's flat shoes vs Stilettos ... 

Is it true that old folk smell of piss? That’s really sad if it’s true.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

9 minutes ago, Joey said:

I told you I shouldn't have bloody well commented on this thread didn't I? Look what's happened. And now you've only gone and given me the green light to say ANYTHING!!!!  

Haha yes, fire away!

Anyway what's this about the demise of the scene in 75?

My lass started that year at WC, HR etc, I started in 83/4 and the scene was wicked, I had the time of my life, I was the youngest guy there hence the 'BabyBoy' tag at the time and the women on the scene absolutely loved me, I met the love of my life there, actually she sort of said 'from now on, you're with me'. She did rescue me from all those older women.

It was Glory-Days for me ten years after you say it had died? 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Mark S said:

Term and conditions apply , your home may be at risk if you dont play original vinyl   blah blah blah blah

I love original vinyl but who makes the rules ?  and more to the point who has the right to dictate how we get our fix .

Got into all this in the early seventies because it was anarchic different and was as good a way as any of sticking two fingers up at the dross we were being force fed . it was cool and edgy and quite dangerous at times , especially round the Manchester area and as Joey has stated far more eloquently than I could nobody gave a shit at the time we were having too much fun after all thats what its all about isnt it ? FUN  remember that ???

 

Terms and conditions apply....... love it!!!!! As you say, who makes the rules? Why do we even have rules now, when we managed quite well without them? 

Ever get the feeling that far too many people take this thing of ours far too seriously nowadays, and have, as you suggested, forgotten how to have fun?

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

3 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Is it true that old folk smell of piss? That’s really sad if it’s true.

At only fifty I couldn't possibly comment. 

[Guest Spain pete]

4 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Is it true that old folk smell of piss? That’s really sad if it’s true.

Yes

[Mark S]

6 minutes ago, Joey said:

Terms and conditions apply....... love it!!!!! As you say, who makes the rules? Why do we even have rules now, when we managed quite well without them? 

Ever get the feeling that far too many people take this thing of ours far too seriously nowadays, and have, as you suggested, forgotten how to have fun?

As Johny Rotten famously said " Ever get the feeling you,ve been had ? "

Chinstrokers eh gotta love them .

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

I don’t think I have misunderstood you at all. You’re missing a one word answer to your question/point - it’s really, really simple. 

Supply.

Sorry to be pedantic but your assertion that the scene met with its demise in the mid 70’s is quite incredible and simply not true. Obviously, it may well have died off in your very personal world, but that is completely different. 

For most on the scene, Northern Soul died in 75, and was replaced with something similar, but at the same time entirely different. It took a completely different direction, and over the course of probably eighteen months lost 90% of its regular attendees. What you have had since is a rare soul scene, not Northern. This is a subject that has been done to death multiple times on multiple threads so there's really not much point in doing it all over again. If you were there, you'll understand, if you weren't, you just can't. Impossible to come to any agreement or concensus of opinion unless you experienced the sheer amount of upheaval, and heartache, at the time.

supply? Again, why would the supply of a tune stop it being played? If a tune is a great one, it remains so, does it not? Regardless of availability and/or price/worth. And if that is true, why on earth would it not be deemed worthy of seeing a turntable? Did the commonplace 1973 Boots of Sandi Sheldon and the Younghearts stop both tunes being played that year? Or in 1974? Or every year after? No, they didn't. Why should this be the case now? Or was the answer given to my original question completely incorrect? Is it all merely down to lazy DJs? If so, then that opens up a whole new avenue for mischief making, eh?

Edited May 7, 2018 by Guest

[Peter99]

7 minutes ago, Joey said:

Terms and conditions apply....... love it!!!!! As you say, who makes the rules? Why do we even have rules now, when we managed quite well without them? 

Ever get the feeling that far too many people take this thing of ours far too seriously nowadays, and have, as you suggested, forgotten how to have fun?

A few of us were in contact with Gil some years ago. We bought him a copy of his own record - his story very typical of many artists whose oft, one off records we love. I think that copy came from Johnny Manship. Gil was thrilled to receive it - I have a couple of emails from him somewhere.

One of my favourite 60’s records - always reminds me of Nev Wherry. I have a minter in my very humble collection. 

P 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

A few of us were in contact with Gil some years ago. We bought him a copy of his own record - his story very typical of many artists whose oft, one off records we love. I think that copy came from Johnny Manship. Gil was thrilled to receive it - I have a couple of emails from him somewhere.

One of my favourite 60’s records - always reminds me of Nev Wherry. I have a minter in my very humble collection. 

P 

OK, I'll hold my hands up on this. You've completely lost me on this one.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

56 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Yes Peter, I didn't go to Wigan but...

Records were dropped when they were booted/reissued because people could then listen at home or take their records down the local and spin them there, and door take at WC would've been affected.

The Soul scene is a business, it's run by business people who hope to make some money out of it.

Currently the money is in OVO nights, folks are prepared to pay a premium for hearing the original pressings.

Nice to see you on the thread, it twists and turns and it's fine, it's just a friendly discussion about the scene today, anything goes really! 

Joey I think I might've answered your question here, it was a page or two back and was a reply to Peter.

It was about exclusivity, the same reasoning that brought about the cover-up scene.

[Guest Shufflin]

21 minutes ago, Joey said:

For most on the scene, Northern Soul died in 75, and was replaced with something similar, but at the same time entirely different

I would genuinely like to hear your reasoning's on this, I'm interested in the history of the scene, so what was NS pre 75, and what was not NS post 75??

[Mark S]

Bloody Tourists 

And only a bleedin lizard in the bidet 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Joey I think I might've answered your question here, it was a page or two back and was a reply to Peter.

It was about exclusivity, the same reasoning that brought about the cover-up scene.

Yeah, I can understand the exclusivity angle. It was always there actually. But it still doesn't answer, for me, why exclusivity and rarity now seemingly supersedes quality and danceability? I know I keep harking back to the early seventies, and this may piss some people off, but back then we also travelled in order to hear the rare and exclusive. Difference then, was that even if rare, should the track be crap, we let the DJ know about it! Now, it appears that as long as a disc is worth a four figure sum, its classed as quality, regardless of whether it actually is or not. I've YouTubed lots of those high dollar Manship auction records, and quite frankly 90% of them are pure unadulterated dross.  But they'd still be played before Wally Cox was considered. Tell me, seriously, am I missing something here? 

In answer to the whole 1975 thing, it's been done to death so many times now. The scene was radically changed by a handful of people for their own financial gain. Changed so much that in just eighteen months 90% of the attendees walked away from it all. As I said to Peter, it's impossible to debate it unless you were there to experience the sheer upheaval that happened. What followed was similar to the old Northern scene, but subtly different. It has been, since then, a rare soul scene, playing some Northern tunes, not a purely Northern one in every sense. It's difficult to explain in text form really. I know it's a cliche, but you really did have to be there. And before anyone jumps down my throat (again) accusing me of elitism and dismissing those who joined the scene post 75, you really couldn't be further from the truth. Whether you came to this thing  in 1970 or 1980, you will have had just as much fun as I did, and your memories will be just as cherished.

[Guest Shufflin]

2 minutes ago, Joey said:

since then, a rare soul scene, playing some Northern tunes, not a purely Northern one in every sense. It's difficult to explain in text form really

explain by records then, cut the mystery and name the records that are true NS in your experience

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Joey, for what it's worth I think that Wally Cox 'This man' is a great sound. I guess it doesn't get played because the new breed of Disco DJs that have come to the scene simply don't know it. It needs bringing to their attention, which I have just done via FarceBook. Several internet Radio stations monitor my lass and I's content so it'll likely be getting radio plays soon and then the DJs will start wanting it.

Several current DJs have been given nervous breakdowns by my lass's input on fb groups, they have had to get their wallets out as the punters are now clued in to some very serious Northern Soul 45s and are demanding them at events, OVO of course!

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, shufflin said:

I would genuinely like to hear your reasoning's on this, I'm interested in the history of the scene, so what was NS pre 75, and what was not NS post 75??

Ive tried answering this in my replies to Peter and BBAML, and on several other threads recently. It really is impossible to explain it all in text form. We'd be here for the next ten years exchanging messages. As I've said, it may be a cliche, but you had to be there. The biggest thing would be the undrground nature of the Northern scene, placed in context with what early 1970's society was like for the average working class kid. It was the one single bright spark in our dull as dishwater lives, and made us feel special. Really special. Opening it up to the entire country made us feel as though we'd been betrayed. I could go on for hours, but again, unless you were there, it would be impossible for you to understand the sheer depth of feeling etc. Trust me, if we ever meet face to face, I'll be more than happy to try to explain it all just as long as you don't mind your ears bleeding for a week afterwards! 

PS, just seen your supplementary question. Many of the tunes discovered since 1980 would never have qualified as Northern. Beat ballads, Latin, more modern stuff etc. Etc. The poppy stuff played at Wigan, even in the early years, was also anathema to most of our ears. Factor in what was being passed off as Northern in Blackpool at the time, and I'm sure you get the gist of it. I would say that late 74 saw the changes really taking hold. If you compare any Casino playlist from late 73, when it opened, to one from late 75 or early 76, you'll notice a massively change, not just in the tunes themselves, but in the TYPE of tune being mainly played. Doesn't make many of them better or worse, just different. And that was a difference many of us didn't like. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Guest

[Peter99]

18 minutes ago, Joey said:

Yeah, I can understand the exclusivity angle. It was always there actually. But it still doesn't answer, for me, why exclusivity and rarity now seemingly supersedes quality and danceability? I know I keep harking back to the early seventies, and this may piss some people off, but back then we also travelled in order to hear the rare and exclusive. Difference then, was that even if rare, should the track be crap, we let the DJ know about it! Now, it appears that as long as a disc is worth a four figure sum, its classed as quality, regardless of whether it actually is or not. I've YouTubed lots of those high dollar Manship auction records, and quite frankly 90% of them are pure unadulterated dross.  But they'd still be played before Wally Cox was considered. Tell me, seriously, am I missing something here? 

In answer to the whole 1975 thing, it's been done to death so many times now. The scene was radically changed by a handful of people for their own financial gain. Changed so much that in just eighteen months 90% of the attendees walked away from it all. As I said to Peter, it's impossible to debate it unless you were there to experience the sheer upheaval that happened. What followed was similar to the old Northern scene, but subtly different. It has been, since then, a rare soul scene, playing some Northern tunes, not a purely Northern one in every sense. It's difficult to explain in text form really. I know it's a cliche, but you really did have to be there. And before anyone jumps down my throat (again) accusing me of elitism and dismissing those who joined the scene post 75, you really couldn't be further from the truth. Whether you came to this thing  in 1970 or 1980, you will have had just as much fun as I did, and your memories will be just as cherished.

But that is still as relevant today. There are regular debates about the rarity and quality of particular records - it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I recall well, back in the 80’s, having a particular dislike to the 60’s newies movement. Led sterlingly well by 60’s mafia stalwarts Guy and Keb. For me that epitomised view of if it’s rare or new it has to be good. It was bollox then and it’s bollox now. Don’t tell anyone but I labelled that sound as being from Guy Dustbin and Kev Garbage. It just didn’t cut it for me.

Of course it is pure subjectivity. 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Peter99

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

I know where Joey's coming from, He's expressing a view I touched on in my initial post, it applies to every age group that joins the scene. He felt disenfranchised by the influx of a whole lot of new faces, some very young (my lass was one, she tells of 'old blokes' at Wigan moaning about the place being full of kids). Myself I am baffled that these guys were objecting to the addition of some very pretty girls to the scene. Although inevitably they would've been followed to it by shirtless hormonal oiks, I can see how that would grate with a more mature clientele.

Like any 'movement' though it has to be accepted that people will become tuned in to it. And in fact if they 'kids' hadn't have joined in, the scene would've died as the originals all settled down to the grey flannel life of mortgages and kids and all that goes with that, bills and stuff.

So for some it died or was killed, for others it was only just getting started, their time came, and your time went, harsh but true.

'Time has passed you by' old son...

Sorry Joey I'm sure you'll take this post in the spirit it is given! 

[Mark S]

1975 The Casino was in its heyday and a victim of its own succes in short the scene became trendy aided and abbeted by Russ Winstanlys need for publicity . Everybody and his dog wanted to be a part of it the tourists turned up in droves the whole dynamic of the scene changed causing a shitload of resentment . As Joey said you had to be there but in its own way it was catastrophic.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

But that is still as relevant today. There are regular debates about the rarity and quality of particular records - it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I recall well, back in the 80’s, having a particular dislike to the 60’s newies movement. Led sterlingly well by 60’s mafia stalwarts Guy and Keb. For me that epitomised view of if it’s rare or new it has to be good. It was bollox then and it’s bollox now. Don’t tell anyone but I labelled that sound as being from Guy Dustbin and Kev Garbage. It just didn’t cut it for me.

 

Of course it's as relevant today. You quote the 80's, but believe me it was happening in 74 also. I've argued long and hard that rarity doth not necessarily a great record make, and been shot down for it. Guy I knew as a young kid at the Casino in the early days. Kev whatever he's called? I saw an interview with him, where he bragged about playing Darrell Banks six times in a row to piss people off, then TOLD them what THEY should be listening to instead. Says if all about the attitude of some DJs over the years, and why I have zero respect for them. The DJ is NOT there to educate, but to entertain. End of. As you say, it was all bollocks then, as it still is today.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mark S said:

1975 The Casino was in its heyday and a victim of its own succes in short the scene became trendy aided and abbeted by Russ Winstanlys need for publicity . Everybody and his dog wanted to be a part of it the tourists turned up in droves the whole dynamic of the scene changed causing a shitload of resentment . As Joey said you had to be there but in its own way it was catastrophic.

Catastrophic is putting it mildly. It killed Northern soul as we'd always known it. And although easy to ace all the blame on one individual, it must be remembered that Winstanley didn't do it on his own. There were several Brutus's to Northern's Caesar. 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just now, Joey said:

Catastrophic is putting it mildly. It killed Northern soul as we'd always known it. And although easy to ace all the blame on one individual, it must be remembered that Winstanley didn't do it on his own. There were several Brutus's to Northern's Caesar. 

Lovely bit of alliteration there Joey! Very impressed!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I know where Joey's coming from, He's expressing a view I touched on in my initial post, it applies to every age group that joins the scene. He felt disenfranchised by the influx of a whole lot of new faces, some very young (my lass was one, she tells of 'old blokes' at Wigan moaning about the place being full of kids). Myself I am baffled that these guys were objecting to the addition of some very pretty girls to the scene. Although inevitably they would've been followed to it by shirtless hormonal oiks, I can see how that would grate with a more mature clientele.

Like any 'movement' though it has to be accepted that people will become tuned in to it. And in fact if they 'kids' hadn't have joined in, the scene would've died as the originals all settled down to the grey flannel life of mortgages and kids and all that goes with that, bills and stuff.

So for some it died or was killed, for others it was only just getting started, their time came, and your time went, harsh but true.

'Time has passed you by' old son...

Sorry Joey I'm sure you'll take this post in the spirit it is given! 

No offence taken, none at all. But......you're only partly right. I was only nineteen when I decided to leave the scene, and twenty when I attended my final night at the Casino. Not an old bloke by any means. Same went for the others who didn't like the direction the scene was taking.  1975 saw such an influx of new faces every single week that it completely changed the entire atmosphere in the place. Forcing many of us upstairs, to spend the entire evening in Ms. And this wasn't just Wigan either. The whole scene was changing. We've touched on the Mecca in this thread and also others, but even the Friday all nighters at Samantha's had changed so much that an "oldies" room had to be opened up in the back for us non progressive types. But as I've said so many times, it didn't matter in the long run. Everyone enjoyed themselves regardless of when "their time" was, and that's all that matters. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Lovely bit of alliteration there Joey! Very impressed!

Aah, that's me all over. I'll happily alliterate until the cows come home

[Guest Spain pete]

As a relative newcomer can someone explain why the feck peeps on this ear site can't just talk about the music ,after all that's wot we're all about ain't it

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just now, Joey said:

No offence taken, none at all. But......you're only partly right. I was only nineteen when I decided to leave the scene, and twenty when I attended my final night at the Casino. Not an old bloke by any means. Same went for the others who didn't like the direction the scene was taking.  1975 saw such an influx of new faces every single week that it completely changed the entire atmosphere in the place. Forcing many of us upstairs, to spend the entire evening in Ms. And this wasn't just Wigan either. The whole scene was changing. We've touched on the Mecca in this thread and also others, but even the Friday all nighters at Samantha's had changed so much that an "oldies" room had to be opened up in the back for us non progressive types. But as I've said so many times, it didn't matter in the long run. Everyone enjoyed themselves regardless of when "their time" was, and that's all that matters. 

Funny that is cause my lass was a confirmed Ms fan, she didn't much like the main room and was always to be found in Ms. I'd have loved to have gone, I would have if anyone had asked, I could've made the last couple of years there, trouble was I was a working musician by then and would either be playing in clubs with my uncles combo or in my own punk band at places like The Vine in Hanley. I'd have jumped at the chance to go to a Northern Soul allniter as I had a 15 years older sister who had been a reg at UTJ and had been to the Wheel and the Torch, I was pretty clued in to soul from a very early age and already liked it before I ever got the chance to sample it's delights from the point of view of an attendee. It's all in my bio, it's been there now a couple of years, some have read it but most don't bother with member bios, shame cause I put quite a bit in mine.

[Mark S]

Just now, Spain pete said:

As a relative newcomer can someone explain why the feck peeps on this ear site can't just talk about the music ,after all that's wot we're all about ain't it

No we are not though . For many of us its about so much more its a culture with all the baggage that goes with it say nothing about the passion 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just now, Spain pete said:

As a relative newcomer can someone explain why the feck peeps on this ear site can't just talk about the music ,after all that's wot we're all about ain't it

Absolutely! We already did, we discussed Peggy March, we've had Blanche Carter, Joey Hetherton, The Belles and more!

Post up a fave Pete we can discuss it!

Don't blame me though if someone says it's sh**e, I don't do that myself, as you'll have seen if you read the thread, it was an initial gripe of mine.

The floor is your's son!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Funny that is cause my lass was a confirmed Ms fan, she didn't much like the main room and was always to be found in Ms. I'd have loved to have gone, I would have if anyone had asked, I could've made the last couple of years there, trouble was I was a working musician by then and would either be playing in clubs with my uncles combo or in my own punk band at places like The Vine in Hanley. I'd have jumped at the chance to go to a Northern Soul allniter as I had a 15 years older sister who had been a reg at UTJ and had been to the Wheel and the Torch, I was pretty clued in to soul from a very early age and already liked it before I ever got the chance to sample it's delights from the point of view of an attendee. It's all in my bio, it's been there now a couple of years, some have read it but most don't bother with member bios, shame cause I put quite a bit in mine.

It's a crying shame that you never went. Had you been just a few years older you'd now be in possession of the most incredible memories. Although my feelings about the place are already far too well documented, it has to be said that the first twelve months of the Casino were awesome. Comparable to anything that had gone before, and far superior to anything since. The atmosphere in the main room in the summer of 74 was mind blowing. Once the changes started, and most of us older hands migrated upstairs, Ms became just as good. More like a traditional soul club/niter. 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just now, Joey said:

It's a crying shame that you never went. Had you been just a few years older you'd now be in possession of the most incredible memories. Although my feelings about the place are already far too well documented, it has to be said that the first twelve months of the Casino were awesome. Comparable to anything that had gone before, and far superior to anything since. The atmosphere in the main room in the summer of 74 was mind blowing. Once the changes started, and most of us older hands migrated upstairs, Ms became just as good. More like a traditional soul club/niter. 

I do have some pretty strong memories of the scene as I knew it!

 

[Guest Gogs]

Following on at what @joey said i also had at one time 2 of these supposedly legit EMI discs that turned out to be boots/carvers.

but i also had a UK  copy of Steve Karmen Breakaway that i wouldn't play out as it was not the U.S. orig and still have the legit 2nd issue that i still wouldn't play out as it's not the original. Where do we draw the line. i have an original copy of Bettye Swann "Kiss my love goodbye" that due to numerous plays is virtually unplayable now, Can i play a re-issue and hold up the original for everybody to see?

[Guest Spain pete]

1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

Once played out Michael Watford's baby love on a cassette , tough one to find on vinyl . all about the music for me .

 

4 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Absolutely! We already did, we discussed Peggy March, we've had Blanche Carter, Joey Hetherton, The Belles and more!

Post up a fave Pete we can discuss it!

Don't blame me though if someone says it's sh**e, I don't do that myself, as you'll have seen if you read the thread, it was an initial gripe of mine.

The floor is your's son!

Your not reading your own post ,l have already posted up a fav .

[Guest]

1 minute ago, gogs said:

Following on at what @joey said i also had at one time 2 of these supposedly legit EMI discs that turned out to be boots/carvers.

but i also had a UK  copy of Steve Karmen Breakaway that i wouldn't play out as it was not the U.S. orig and still have the legit 2nd issue that i still wouldn't play out as it's not the original. Where do we draw the line. i have an original copy of Bettye Swann "Kiss my love goodbye" that due to numerous plays is virtually unplayable now, Can i play a re-issue and hold up the original for everybody to see?

Lol. My point exactly. Can you imagine a wannabe DJ paying several grand for a tune, he plays it out multiple times, and then finds its completely f***ed? Why not own the thing, store it in your collection, and play a legit reissue? 

Those Emidiscs could be made to order back in the early seventies. I won't name names, as I have no documented evidence, and my pension fund couldn't cover the possible libel damages I'd incur. As before, they would cost you a few quid to buy, and were, until that first major wave of bootlegs hit the shops, the only way to get hold of certain tunes for yourself. 

[Mark S]

Sorry to do this guys but this illustrates one of the many shite things that happened in 1975

Please accept my heartfelt appologies ..................

...........................The Devil made me do it

See what I did there?

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

13 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

 

Your not reading your own post ,l have already posted up a fav .

You did and I did google it and had a listen, I must've got sidetracked before saying anything about it.

 

A great sound, ideal for the early hours at a niter, a slowy with lovely female harmonies juxtaposed with a male vocal. Meaningful lyrics that you have to actually listen to in order to get the message, a strong syncopated beat with some nice interplay with the percussion accenting the lead vocal. It isn't one I can recall hearing recently and unfortunately my lass has gone to bed so she can't add her knowledge, if any, on venues etc where she has heard it before, if indeed she has. It's a lovely slice and definitely one I would enjoy hearing out on the big system. I will listen tomorrow at a greater volume level. Any info on venues and periods appreciated Pete! 

[Guest woolie mark]

9 hours ago, Joey said:

I don't know how many places are playing their tunes off Boots or reissues, but quite frankly I don't care. if I "go out" I want to listen to the tune, and, if my hip and knees allow, actually dance to it. I don't feel the need to masturbate over a rare label, or flagellate both myself and the unfortunate DJ if the pic on the big screen shows the disc is only worth £5, and not £5000. Nor will I feel in any way ripped off.

A "true" soul club ONLY plays OVO? Really? That's a bugger. All those years attending the Pendulum, Central, Catacombs, etc. etc. only to find out in 2018 that they weren't "true" soul  clubs. What a fool I and many others have been. I feel as cheated as those bloody Dalton Boys I used to dance to. 

What I remember was that back in the mid 70s it was more important to play the newly breaking records at local events than to play "originals", and so a lot of DJs played off emidiscs and nobody had a problem with this because that was what people wanted to dance to.

I've had a few of these emidiscs go through my hands, and some of them are quite amusing.  I've got one at home somewhere with 8th Avenue Band on one side and Marboo on the other.  Obviously both of these were unobtainable and in demand records at one time, because it isn't and never was cheap to get these cut. 

I wasn't around at soul clubs in the 60s and early 70s, but from what I understand DJs were largely playing UK issues of soul records a lot of of which were released in the UK some time after their original US release and so weren't "originals" as we would mean today.

Edited May 8, 2018 by woolie mark

[Modernsoulsucks]

Did the commonplace 1973 Boots of Sandi Sheldon and the Younghearts stop both tunes being played that year? Or in 1974? Or every year after

 

Went to Torch, Pendulem, Mecca, Wigan and I think you've got this the wrong way round.

When they were booted or re-issued on UK they were dropped at the leading clubs. Records were also phased out as new titles took their place. Value of original plummeted. Remember getting Tempos off Richard for a copy of "Skating on thin ice" UK demo which had just come out. Originals retaining their value was a later development toward end of 70's ?

There is more chance today in a big club of hearing a booted 45 than back in '73.

As for Wally Cox, I'm sure someone somewhere plays it out as I notice it's climbed in price.

 

[Guest woolie mark]

43 minutes ago, Mark S said:

Sorry to do this guys but this illustrates one of the many shite things that happened in 1975

Please accept my heartfelt appologies ..................

...........................The Devil made me do it

See what I did there?

I have to really strongly disagree with you there Mark, as I don't see this as shite at all.  First of all I think some of the dancing is absolutely brilliant.  Secondly, although the music doesn't represent what is truly amazing about northern soul, it does reflect what was popular at the time.  It's no worse than all the other mass produced dross (eg: Sharonettes) that was selling by the bucketload around this time.  Not one for the purists, but it documents a period of our heritage which you can't just pretend didn't happen.  I think it's hilarious how the audience are just looking on in bemusement, they're not even tapping their toes.  I wonder how many of them rushed out afterwards to "buy the t-shirt" so to speak to get in on this awe inspiring thing they had just witnessed.  Didn't Footsee have Chuck Wood or something on the b-side too?  I wonder how many people this b-side introduced to proper soul music?

Of course the northern soul scene was clearly healthier musically before and after this period of mass commercialisation.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Mark S said:

Sorry to do this guys but this illustrates one of the many shite things that happened in 1975

Please accept my heartfelt appologies ..................

...........................The Devil made me do it

See what I did there?

Stop it. Just please stop it. PLEASE. I promise not to post anything contentious ever again. Just please make it stop.

[Mark S]

6 hours ago, woolie mark said:

I have to really strongly disagree with you there Mark, as I don't see this as shite at all.  First of all I think some of the dancing is absolutely brilliant.  Secondly, although the music doesn't represent what is truly amazing about northern soul, it does reflect what was popular at the time.  It's no worse than all the other mass produced dross (eg: Sharonettes) that was selling by the bucketload around this time.  Not one for the purists, but it documents a period of our heritage which you can't just pretend didn't happen.  I think it's hilarious how the audience are just looking on in bemusement, they're not even tapping their toes.  I wonder how many of them rushed out afterwards to "buy the t-shirt" so to speak to get in on this awe inspiring thing they had just witnessed.  Didn't Footsee have Chuck Wood or something on the b-side too?  I wonder how many people this b-side introduced to proper soul music?

Of course the northern soul scene was clearly healthier musically before and after this period of mass commercialisation.

Piont taken but Footsie was bloody awfull and this was Top of the pops the very crap we were trying to avoid .

Persònaly could never get idea of trying to appeal to a wider audience , the scene/culture was far healthier when folks just stumbled upon it that was what I was trying to convey . 

I actualy bought footsie for the Chuck Wood B side at the time and promptly took a compass needle to the A side such was my youthfull disgust 

 

[Leicester Boy]

Going off on a tangent here but as this thread has covered most things. Holly  st James filled the floor at the Blackpool tower weekend by the way .but as a Midlands boy who tends to head south for dos I was struck by the fact that Blackpool attire was plenty of vests and baggy strides and down south it tends to be more casual. Any thoughts anybody 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, modernsoulsucks said:

Did the commonplace 1973 Boots of Sandi Sheldon and the Younghearts stop both tunes being played that year? Or in 1974? Or every year after

 

Went to Torch, Pendulem, Mecca, Wigan and I think you've got this the wrong way round.

When they were booted or re-issued on UK they were dropped at the leading clubs. Records were also phased out as new titles took their place. Value of original plummeted. Remember getting Tempos off Richard for a copy of "Skating on thin ice" UK demo which had just come out. Originals retaining their value was a later development toward end of 70's ?

There is more chance today in a big club of hearing a booted 45 than back in '73.

As for Wally Cox, I'm sure someone somewhere plays it out as I notice it's climbed in price.

 

Would have to agree to disagree there. I recall both being played regularly throughout 73 and 74. Especially in the lesser known local midweek clubs. The top line DJs may have dropped it from their playlists, but many others didnt.

[Professorturnups]

9 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Haha yes, fire away!

Anyway what's this about the demise of the scene in 75?

My lass started that year at WC, HR etc, I started in 83/4 and the scene was wicked, I had the time of my life, I was the youngest guy there hence the 'BabyBoy' tag at the time and the women on the scene absolutely loved me, I met the love of my life there, actually she sort of said 'from now on, you're with me'. She did rescue me from all those older women.

It was Glory-Days for me ten years after you say it had died? 

Amazing times for me also in the 80s from the 100 club you hit Leighton buzzard, up to East Anglia with Peterborough. The mighty Midlands venues like Leicester and Chesterfield. On the east coast Cleethorpes WG and Morecambe on the west. Bradford and Warrington Parr hall up north and over the border to Shotts. Many more of course (Stafford and Clifton Hall setting the pace)

[Professorturnups]

17 minutes ago, Leicester boy said:

Going off on a tangent here but as this thread has covered most things. Holly  st James filled the floor at the Blackpool tower weekend by the way .but as a Midlands boy who tends to head south for dos I was struck by the fact that Blackpool attire was plenty of vests and baggy strides and down south it tends to be more casual. Any thoughts anybody 

Would that have been in the main northern room at Blackpool? I don't think the baggy attire would be the norm in the modern or rare room. I have been going to the 100 club for many years and its never really had a dress code in my opinion. A mixture of smart mods, casual wear and maybe the odd soulie style. Maybe more northerners who are recent converts are following the so called dress code.I'm from Norwich which us considered south (lol) and some of the oldies lads wear bags. The small cried of us that do niters certainly don't!

[Leicester Boy]

Yes the main tower ballroom.to be fair the vests could certainly move . 

[Mark S]

26 minutes ago, Leicester boy said:

Going off on a tangent here but as this thread has covered most things. Holly  st James filled the floor at the Blackpool tower weekend by the way .but as a Midlands boy who tends to head south for dos I was struck by the fact that Blackpool attire was plenty of vests and baggy strides and down south it tends to be more casual. Any thoughts anybody 

Ah the old comedy soulie arguement .

Gets me that they pick up on a particularly piss poor fashion period when the scene has spanned over 50 years . Just dont get it and find it all a bit ssd that people feel they have to tick all the boxes then hit the dressing up box .

Each to their own eh ..................

.......No !!  grow up its 2018 ffs