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ROBNEWBURY

' A youth culture left in the hands of old men'

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I hope you persuaded the poor girl back in-dance properly?? Cant have been a good soul who said that.  I should have been booted out of every venue Ive gone to then for my efforts :D.  There are some twats.  At the 100 club you get quite a lot of try outs and it makes it thoroughly interesting because theyre seeing the scene with fresh eyes...its not a WMC they should get a grip and all with the same hattitude. 

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5 hours ago, bonhsoulie said:

I hope you persuaded the poor girl back in-dance properly?? Cant have been a good soul who said that.  I should have been booted out of every venue Ive gone to then for my efforts :D.  There are some twats.  At the 100 club you get quite a lot of try outs and it makes it thoroughly interesting because theyre seeing the scene with fresh eyes...its not a WMC they should get a grip and all with the same hattitude. 

She didn't want to go back in I gave her a hug and apoligized. she was about the same age as my daughter and it still haunts me. 

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Not so much a youth culture left in the hands of old men as much as old men (and women) holding on....and why shouldn't they.

'How hath Time,that subtle thief of youth,stolen upon his wing,my four and twentieth year' .

Milton

Sorry I could have quoted the obvious Northern tune but I'm in poet mode this month.

 

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No one needs to explain there musical taste to anybody, it's what makes the world go round....you like what you like...I've tried to explain about the rare soul scene to some of my mates....always ends in...there only rare because they didn't sell and weren't popular!!! Who's to argue...horses for courses...doesn't affect me or them...it's just opinion and taste...each to there own I say.....kind regards.....Rob

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2 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

It's called Musical taste and it's very subjective and down to the individual.

Deep down I know this statement must (somehow) be correct….But…..:D.…..I honestly can’t understand anyone not utterly agreeing with my taste in music - I actually think there must be something wrong with them if they don’t.

Does that make me a bad person?

Len :thumbsup:

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20 minutes ago, LEN said:

Deep down I know this statement must (somehow) be correct….But…..:D.…..I honestly can’t understand anyone not utterly agreeing with my taste in music - I actually think there must be something wrong with them if they don’t.

Does that make me a bad person?

Len :thumbsup:

Len:hatsoff2:. Maybe that's why I asked you half way through your set on Saturday night what time where you on :P

Sorry mate. I couldn't resist it.  

Steve 

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6 hours ago, autumnstoned said:

As someone said earlier, don't encourage him. He admits to quite liking Abba - nuff said.😂

Now that is seriously crossing the line, NOBODY disses the mighty alignment of the planetary musical universe in it's complete and utter perfection that is Annifrid, Benny, Bjorn and Agnetha!

'Is that clear?' he asked, fingering the twin triggers on his side be side!

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47 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Now that is seriously crossing the line, NOBODY disses the mighty alignment of the planetary musical universe in it's complete and utter perfection that is Annifrid, Benny, Bjorn and Agnetha!

'Is that clear?' he asked, fingering the twin triggers on his side be side!

I love Abba's Voulez Vous album.

It was all an extreme "time and place" thing. 

But hey-ho - it's now hard-coded into my DNA.

With me for life. :yes::)

 

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3 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

There is a surgical procedure, an abbarectomy, that involves removing part of the parietal lobe responsible for taste

Lololol.....Abbarectomy !

 

I think im having a heart attack from laughter here.

Please lock the thread ...

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Just now, Soulsides said:

Please lock the thread ...

LoL nooo!

We're having a laugh now, Stevesilkpanties has been clued in and we are back to having a genteel, sophisticated laugh as music lovers, although some have clearly a more refined musical ear than others...

However my laid-back attitude may change if we carry on with the Abba insults...

Saying negative stuff here about Abba is like playing with yourself in public, you can think about it, just don't do it, otherwise I'll post the greatest song ever written and you can report it to the Daddy, oh hang on Banks you b****d...

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

There is a surgical procedure, an abbarectomy, that involves removing part of the parietal lobe responsible for taste.

It got me out of the biggest darkest blackest hole I have ever been in my life. But josh away. You're cool.

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On 27/05/2018 at 12:06, stevesilktulip said:

I find it a bit sad that northern soul has become our Beatles.

In the seventies, the aging sixties teenies got into Elton John or Pink Floyd or whatever and the fabs became totally passe and gradually they were into nothing. Then their kids grew up; journalists, teachers, the telly and the government kept telling them how swinging and groovy they were and they wanted some of it to tell their grandkids, who they were more or less bringing up while the parents worked and went out. Then Britpop, mojo, Q and all the rest made the fabs the swingingest, grooviest group ever - which they never were in the sixties - and everybody just bought into it.

Many northern people got into punk-rock, two-tone and gradually nothing (a big improvement on punkrock and 2 tone) until their kids grew up and Soul Survivors and Duffy and Fatboy Slim and other things converged to bring back northern for the masses, based on the same records, period fashions and even - most catastrophically - the perid format. Old jazzers still play their 10 inch graphites, but they also play vinyls, CDs and no doubt computers. 

I remeber when videos first came out and I paid £30 (a lot of money at the start of the eighties) for Brothers and Sisters (feat Marvin, Curtis, Ojays, Chilites, Temptations, Bill Withers, Jerry Butler, Staples, Main Ingredient, Gladys Knight, Jackson 5 and a gospell choir) and my brother telling me visuals was a different type of entertainment which didn't suit repeated viewing. Nowadays it's quite normal for people to watch, not just music performances, but feature films over and over again.

I remember when I would get an LP for christmas and another for a birthday, and I'd play them over and over again, but now I buy albums almost every day.

Just like we're not designed to read the same books and watch the same films over and over again, I don't believe we're designed to listen to the same music all the time forever. The first time I returned to northern soul was in the early eighties (though I have never become a northern soulie again) and I found I either knew everything or knew nothing, and most of the ones I knew I still liked. Each time since that I've returned to it, I find that I like less and less of the old records I loved in the mid-seventies, though a small minority remain amongst my favourite records.

It's not so much the scene I worry about but the very existence of Soul Music - the greatest music in the world - which I'm afraid has been badly served by the scene.

Well wide of the truth, sorry. The Beatles were great in the 60’s. They flourished as part of the Mersey beat scene, dominated the UK pop music scene and conquered America. They were heavily influenced by Motown and possibly by Spector given the ‘wall of sound’ music they produced. The  Northern Soul scene developed in a totally different way. In the 70’s, you had your glam rock for the teen pop followers, your Sabbath, Zeppelin and Purple etc for your long haired hippy brigade and soul/reggae for the mods and all night dancers. The Beatles remain great today, partly due the shortage of comparable pop music in later decades, especially since 1990, the year that pop ate itself. Northern Soul has surfaced as the worthiest genre of vintage music, crossing over to a wider public (for better or for worse) as is evidenced in vinyl sales, widespread events and media exposure. Hardly a week goes by without some 60’s or 70’s soul side receiving acclaim after 40-50 years of being overlooked. The future of soul 45’s looks healthy but I have some doubts about LP’s in general and especially the prog-rock output of the past given the listening habits of the youth today.

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I shouldn't respond because like my pal joey i will just get into more trouble but here goes.

I Don't like the Beetles, Frank Zappa, i hate Abba, i don't like punk, reggie or most pop (can't say all) because i've got copies of Duffy- mercy etc in my collection.

But back to the topic, It is not "A youth culture left in the hands of old men" it is our culture left in our hands.

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7 hours ago, gogs said:

I shouldn't respond because like my pal joey i will just get into more trouble but here goes.

I Don't like the Beetles, Frank Zappa, i hate Abba, i don't like punk, reggie or most pop (can't say all) because i've got copies of Duffy- mercy etc in my collection.

But back to the topic, It is not "A youth culture left in the hands of old men" it is our culture left in our hands.

Perfectly put sir.its an evolved culture nothing ever stays the same don't let the memories of your youth be the heavy chains of your present. The past is just that enjoy your now wether you attend or listen in your home the music is still the same from back in the day everyone is just older and who knows maybe even wiser.

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9 hours ago, MBarrett said:

It got me out of the biggest darkest blackest hole I have ever been in my life. But josh away. You're cool.

Good for you.  Hope this cheers you up, and to keep Baby Boy happy.....

My my

At Station Road Winstanley did surrender

Oh yeah

And Ian met his destiny in quite a similar way

The 45s on the shelves

Are always repeating themselves

Cas-ino, I was pissed off when they closed the door

Northern Soul, promise to love you for ever more

The Top 500, l couldn't escape if I wanted to

Northern Soul, knowing I misspent my youth with you

Oh oh Northern Soul, finally growing old with you


 

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On 28/05/2018 at 12:07, stevesilktulip said:

It never ceases to amaze me that people defend fabs, Stones, punkrocke etc on a soul site - ya'll listening to the wrong soul. 

Surely the Fabs, Stones, Animals and an whole array of 60’s beat bands brought a lot of soul music to the “youth of the day” attention in the early days.

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2 hours ago, Steve S 60 said:

Good for you.  Hope this cheers you up, and to keep Baby Boy happy.....

My my

At Station Road Winstanley did surrender

Oh yeah

And Ian met his destiny in quite a similar way

The 45s on the shelves

Are always repeating themselves

Cas-ino, I was pissed off when they closed the door

Northern Soul, promise to love you for ever more

The Top 500, l couldn't escape if I wanted to

Northern Soul, knowing I misspent my youth with you

Oh oh Northern Soul, finally growing old with you


 

Excellent Steve! :hatsoff2: 

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1 hour ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Just watched that Jane McDonald one again...

For the umpteenth time...

She's gorgeous, kinda wish Bicknell hadn't introduced me to that one! He lied.

 

She is the future lol

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I understand a polite word with handbag gers, or a person spilling there drink all over the dance floor but I love "footfall" at the 100 Club. It keeps a venue alive. I'm not keen on revivalist wearing baggies and patches to me my music is still alive and relevant not a wake to times past. If that makes sense?

18 minutes ago, manus said:

There's no right or wrong way to dance and always great just to see folks getting into the music. I saw a woman a couple of months back who clearly wasn't a Soul event regular come into a venue by herself and then dance by herself for about two hours just doing her own thing it was a pleasure to watch. There's too many precious people who feel threatened by someone just getting into the music in their own way and not following the regimented dance steps that supposedly say " I belong".

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On 28/05/2018 at 16:48, stevesilktulip said:

As I said, we really need to start listening to St Frank. We're fed so much post-Beatles radio music, based on catchy soundbites, haircuts, novelties, myths and media, that we think you have to like some of it, but Zappa and I, soul fans, jazz fans, reggae fans, blues fans, rock fans, c+w fans, folk fans, hip hop fans etc etc more or less dismiss it all. Pop fans love it.

Dan Penn called the Beatles 'little girl shit'. Betty Everett said they were 'just stories', Clapton said their music was 'engineering, clever, subtle, brainwashing', Mingus said they (and the Stones) were like little marching men, Bob Dylan said (of his then girlfriend Joan Baez recording Yesterday) 'it's the thing to do to tell the teenyboppers you dig the Beatles'. Zappa said they were 'ok, a good commercial group, that's all'. There are countless other examples. 

Recently Jazzwise ran an article on Django Bates doing a 50th anniversary of Sgt Pepper, and somebody wrote a letter, clearly completely oblivious of their absolute transformation in the media since Lemons assassination, and simply pointed out that they were pure hype and nobody cool liked them in the sixties.

More usefully than good and bad music, Duke Ellington distinguished between art and entertainment. I quite like Abba and a few others, but I quite like soap operas, quiz shows and sitcoms, though I don't think it's art or important in any way. Soul music, like classical, jazz, blues, reggae and 'intelligent' rock, are serious music for the ages.

The Beach Boys? Seriously? But were they a boy band or a novelty group? 

I remember a time when it was universally accepted by all but teenyboppers that Glenn Miller, Elvis, fabs and Stones etc were recycling watered down versions of black music because America still couldn't accept that black people could be creative. 

Interesting that soul source thinks of 63-7 as the Beatles highpoint. The modern day Beatle worshipper, with their heads full of millions of words written by countless sixties teenyboppers and post punkrockers (cast adrift with no music and no skills in how to listen to music without accompanying myths) in books, Mojo, Q, Uncut and the rest about how they were transformed by marijuana, Bob Dylan, Pet Sounds and the sitar, think 66-69 was their golden age, when they were an album group, even though both Lemon and McCartney have admitted they never made an album as a complete work. 

A few words for TNK. Where were you the first time you heard Tomorrow Never Knows? So asked David Crosby on the Dancing in the Streets popumenatary. I first heard it in the mid- nineties, driving from Manchester to Skipton; the penultimate track and I thought, that's it, it's garbage, even for them; one track left and it's one of Lemons ,which have been particularly naff, as usual. Suddenly this enormous sound filled the car. I got that I could find it on a cassette every time- why would you play anything else off the album?

The modern day Beatle-worshipper thinks they made 217 (or whatever it is) TNKs and one Yellow Submarine. They didn't, they made one TNK and 217(whatever) Yellow Submarines. Fool on the Hill is my second favourite Beatles song (which even Curtis couldn't save) but it's still more Yellow Submarine than TNK. 

But with this now recognised as their best ever, why did I not hear it on the radio or TV? Why was it not on the 62-66 album? I have a theory that it originally sounded just like the version on the anthology album and has been remastered and remastered into what it's become. Although the chant was written by Lemon (lyrics actually lifted from a translation of the Tibetan book of the Dead), according to George Martin (producer of the goons), who should know, the bits that separated it from every other Beatles were Paul (stolen from Mingus and Stockhausen). Martin at least had the decency to distort the silly voice as the track progresses.

The Beatles and punkrock are for people who accept the music (and more importantly the accompanying myths) that's presented to them. People who like soul, jazz, blues, reggae etc create their own worlds which, according to modern classical composer (and conductor of - among others - Zappa) Pierre Boulez claims it's richer because you have 'a metaphysics of you' - heavy, heavy, heavy. 

the strange world of Northern Soul... NF Porter is married to Frank Zappa's sister, Patrice.

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"A youth culture left in the hands of old men?"...........I prefer to see it as a dance scene which has been followed by successive generations, all with differing tastes, fashion and dance-styles.

I won't get into the academic arguments about other genres as I don't have a degree in English or Music, although I did get a blue at Cambridge if that counts (but I missed the pink and went in-off on the black).

That said, saw Bowie at the Free Trade Hall in '73, saw the Stranglers at the Tower Club in 70 something, own the Beatles White Album, Sgnt Pepper and Abbey Road, love a bit of Jazz-Funk, used to go Hacienda

 

 

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Been reading this thread with interest - I always love how I hear people say we need some new blood on the scene but when footfall appears at places the same people then say “oh they don’t dance properly” or “they’ve got drinks on the dance floor” - no one has the rights to this music or the scene and the soul scene definitely isn’t “the friendliest scene” around...personally would love to see the influx of younger people on the scene but until the dinosaurs become extinct I really don’t think it will happen that much in the U.K. The European scene is far more forward thinking when it comes to encouraging new blood and doesn’t judge, they realise that the “torch” must be passed on otherwise this scene and music will be gone forever...

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I've mainly found the rare soul friendly and welcoming...well apart from being punched in the head on the 100 club dancefloor 300 [is that a mis-type] odd years ago while I was dancing and a guy charging off the the floor of the ritz demanding to know why i was staring at him about 200 years ago [could be a mis-type as well].

dean

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10 minutes ago, chalky said:

It's generally a friendly scene and by and large very welcoming.  Yes you get idiots as you do in any walk of life but they are few and far between.  There is very little trouble unlike any other walk of life.

Would agree with that on the whole Chalky, I’ve heard some out of order comments from some folks though - I know a few folks who were out every weekend in the 80s and 90s that moved on to modern soul but still like to go to the occasional ‘Northern’ do being called handbaggers by folk that haven’t been around as long...generally though most folks are friendly but it’s definitely not the friendliest scene around as touted by many but as you say there are arseholes in every walk of life, just have to try and avoid them...

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It was a lot worse back in the 70s and even the 80s when the scene had an edge to it and a hint of menace at times.  Many got rolled for gear and money.  All the characters have long disappeared and they could put the frighteners on many a wet behind the ear novice.  

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1 hour ago, chalky said:

It's far too sanitised as you say (I said this last week to someone) and over analysed now.  I loved the travelling, the having to go out to hear a certain record or Dj, the sense of not knowing what was going to happen.  Now you more or less know the night before if happens.

There are a lot of people who missed most of that who seem to be more interested in laying down rules that most didn't give a sh*t about at one time.   Far too many idiots these days more interested in acronyms and pigeon holes and the music seems to come down the list for many.  We managed pretty well without any of it not so long ago.

 

Here here.

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Posted (edited)

As i reflect on a lot of things mentioned in this thread Some wonderful things said by (and it has to be said by some wonderful people) that looking back on the Scene how things have changed so much in nowadays when discussing a Nite out or a Day out you hear more these days about is there a Bar and how expensive are the drinks going to be and not Who will be spinning the Music, booze being more important as to what is going to be played (Quality Wise) Do people to day realise the a lot of the venues we went to were Alcohol Free, Wigan Casino, Cleethorpes Pier (If memory serves me right), and many others Mainly Niters, but there were many others that you Wise Old Owls probably remember better than me, but we didn't mind as It Was About The Music, I still remember that famous line quoted in a N. S. Documentry about going out dancing all nite  (what you go out dancing and thy don't serve beer and you don't go to pick up Birds) Still makes me Smile 

Have a Great Week End Everyone Oh and by the Way, mines a pint of Orange and Lemonade, Thanks

Edited by RICK SCOTT
extras

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Just now, Spain pete said:

Beginning to think this site has lost it's way, soul source a site for soul music lovers is my interpretation , but maybe l'm wrong? WTF frank zapper has to do with soul music l don't know ? But then again many artists have surprised me over the years, does any body know of a  soulful track by frank ? If so please post up ,  nf porter being married to his sister is interesting ! So maybe there is a link to soul music somewhere , FOOD FOR THOUGHT , Richie havens was always a folk artist in my mind , so l think l got that one wrong  SUPRISE SUPRISE. 🎶🎶🎭

No, you didn't get Richie Havens wrong at all. You were absolutely correct. He was always a black Bob Dylan, or Joan Baez. A folk/protest singer who latterly dabbled in soul a few times. To me, like yourself, he was ALWAYS a folk singer, the same way that Johnny Mathis was always a middle of the road lounge singer. Both were black, but that alone doesnt make them soul artists. Then again, did he ever cover a Zappa tune? If so, some on here may well consider him a soul singer after all. 🙂

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3 minutes ago, Joey said:

No, you didn't get Richie Havens wrong at all. You were absolutely correct. He was always a black Bob Dylan, or Joan Baez. A folk/protest singer who latterly dabbled in soul a few times. To me, like yourself, he was ALWAYS a folk singer, the same way that Johnny Mathis was always a middle of the road lounge singer. Both were black, but that alone doesnt make them soul artists. Then again, did he ever cover a Zappa tune? If so, some on here may well consider him a soul singer after all. 🙂

I knew it joey, when it comes to talking about soul music you are like me you can't help yourself , BUT WHAT IS SOUL???🎶😉

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OK, to bring the thread right back to topic!

'A youth culture left in the hands of old men' My A**e!

These are just a few I know personally, and I live in the back of beyond and don't get out much! Beautiful lads and lasses, all members of our Soul club 'Soul on Wax', full of energy, absolutely cracked on Soul, a joy to be around and I'm proud that when I go and they're there, they know my name, want to shake my hand... Hell I even get a peck on the cheek from the gorgeous lasses!

These are some of the New Breed who aren't afraid to be seen out enjoying themselves with folks who maybe a little bit older than themselves, they have a good time and I for one absolutely love 'em, and I'm far from being alone in that!

They know their Soul in a big way, and, shock horror... They might even like a bit of Punk, Ska, Reggae, Mod, Rockabilly too even!

So yeah, as stated in the first sentence, that attention grabbing fake controversy headline, made-up s***e!

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

I knew it joey, when it comes to talking about soul music you are like me you can't help yourself , BUT WHAT IS SOUL???🎶😉

Aaah, the age old question, "What is Soul"?

Buggered if I know the answer to that. Better ask Bobby Womack, or Ray Charles, or Sam Cooke !!!! 🙂 

Edited by Joey

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