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I find it a bit sad that northern soul has become our Beatles.

In the seventies, the aging sixties teenies got into Elton John or Pink Floyd or whatever and the fabs became totally passe and gradually they were into nothing. Then their kids grew up; journalists, teachers, the telly and the government kept telling them how swinging and groovy they were and they wanted some of it to tell their grandkids, who they were more or less bringing up while the parents worked and went out. Then Britpop, mojo, Q and all the rest made the fabs the swingingest, grooviest group ever - which they never were in the sixties - and everybody just bought into it.

Many northern people got into punk-rock, two-tone and gradually nothing (a big improvement on punkrock and 2 tone) until their kids grew up and Soul Survivors and Duffy and Fatboy Slim and other things converged to bring back northern for the masses, based on the same records, period fashions and even - most catastrophically - the perid format. Old jazzers still play their 10 inch graphites, but they also play vinyls, CDs and no doubt computers. 

I remeber when videos first came out and I paid £30 (a lot of money at the start of the eighties) for Brothers and Sisters (feat Marvin, Curtis, Ojays, Chilites, Temptations, Bill Withers, Jerry Butler, Staples, Main Ingredient, Gladys Knight, Jackson 5 and a gospell choir) and my brother telling me visuals was a different type of entertainment which didn't suit repeated viewing. Nowadays it's quite normal for people to watch, not just music performances, but feature films over and over again.

I remember when I would get an LP for christmas and another for a birthday, and I'd play them over and over again, but now I buy albums almost every day.

Just like we're not designed to read the same books and watch the same films over and over again, I don't believe we're designed to listen to the same music all the time forever. The first time I returned to northern soul was in the early eighties (though I have never become a northern soulie again) and I found I either knew everything or knew nothing, and most of the ones I knew I still liked. Each time since that I've returned to it, I find that I like less and less of the old records I loved in the mid-seventies, though a small minority remain amongst my favourite records.

It's not so much the scene I worry about but the very existence of Soul Music - the greatest music in the world - which I'm afraid has been badly served by the scene.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, stevesilktulip said:

 

all the rest made the fabs the swingingest, grooviest group ever - which they never were in the sixties - and everybody just bought into it.

 

Steve Interesting to read your thoughts and opinions but the one above worries me. Can I ask what age you were say 1963 thru 67 when the Beatles were at the top of their game?

I lived those years as a young to mid teenager and for me the Beatles were absolutely huge - beyond anything else in the musical world.

OK I was of an impressionable age but the Beatles were everything I wanted to be. Beyond swinging and beyond groovy. LOL!

And trust me I wasn't alone! :)

Edited by MBarrett
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You can take the boy out of soul but you can't take the soul out of the boy.

dean

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21 hours ago, stevesilktulip said:

I find it a bit sad that northern soul has become our Beatles.

In the seventies, the aging sixties teenies got into Elton John or Pink Floyd or whatever and the fabs became totally passe and gradually they were into nothing. Then their kids grew up; journalists, teachers, the telly and the government kept telling them how swinging and groovy they were and they wanted some of it to tell their grandkids, who they were more or less bringing up while the parents worked and went out. Then Britpop, mojo, Q and all the rest made the fabs the swingingest, grooviest group ever - which they never were in the sixties - and everybody just bought into it.

Many northern people got into punk-rock, two-tone and gradually nothing (a big improvement on punkrock and 2 tone) until their kids grew up and Soul Survivors and Duffy and Fatboy Slim and other things converged to bring back northern for the masses, based on the same records, period fashions and even - most catastrophically - the perid format. Old jazzers still play their 10 inch graphites, but they also play vinyls, CDs and no doubt computers. 

I remeber when videos first came out and I paid £30 (a lot of money at the start of the eighties) for Brothers and Sisters (feat Marvin, Curtis, Ojays, Chilites, Temptations, Bill Withers, Jerry Butler, Staples, Main Ingredient, Gladys Knight, Jackson 5 and a gospell choir) and my brother telling me visuals was a different type of entertainment which didn't suit repeated viewing. Nowadays it's quite normal for people to watch, not just music performances, but feature films over and over again.

I remember when I would get an LP for christmas and another for a birthday, and I'd play them over and over again, but now I buy albums almost every day.

Just like we're not designed to read the same books and watch the same films over and over again, I don't believe we're designed to listen to the same music all the time forever. The first time I returned to northern soul was in the early eighties (though I have never become a northern soulie again) and I found I either knew everything or knew nothing, and most of the ones I knew I still liked. Each time since that I've returned to it, I find that I like less and less of the old records I loved in the mid-seventies, though a small minority remain amongst my favourite records.

It's not so much the scene I worry about but the very existence of Soul Music - the greatest music in the world - which I'm afraid has been badly served by the scene.

You say soul music has been badly served by the scene. Well having just attended the oddfellows alldayer with hundreds of others all I saw was joy.joy in soul music joy in a shared experience joy in a damm good day with hundreds of sweaty happy people. Is not soul music about joy.

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We really need to start listening to Mr Z. He rightly pointed out that every fad in pop music was accompanied by a fashion statement; but with punkrock they just didn't bother with the music.

It's rightly identified that a golden age of rock and soul came to an end in the mid-seventies, courtesy punkrock and disco.

It's like the Beatles, the myth bares no resemblance to what happened on the ground. The heads were listening to funk, while punkrock was just twelve year olds in their uniforms jumping up and down spitting at each other.

Not an automatic exclusion, but the Sex Pistols were a manufactured band, as are all teeny groups, but Rotten is one of the biggest dickheads allowed to have an opinion on music in  the mass media. The only sensible thing he ever said was on an American tour when he admitted - ever got the idea you've been conned.  Remember the black chap on that documentary about them in America saying 'man that's just garbage'. No black act would be allowed to make such dreadful music, which even with the myths, is what it's supposed to be.  

It's true some metal bands take influence from the myth, but they applied proper musicianship, and the rubbish hip hop (most of it) is like a modern day punkrock while the best hip hop (the minority) comes from reggae, funk and jazz.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Leicester boy said:

You say soul music has been badly served by the scene. Well having just attended the oddfellows alldayer with hundreds of others all I saw was joy.joy in soul music joy in a shared experience joy in a damm good day with hundreds of sweaty happy people. Is not soul music about joy.

But how much of that played was actually soul music, I think that is the point being made.  The Northern Soul scene is serving those who attend and as you rightly say had or have a joyous time, not soul music.

Edited by chalky
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

with punkrock they just didn't bother with the music.

What does that even mean..do you believe all of the nonsense about how the Pistols couldn't play ? ...they were one of the tightest bands ever with their original line up.There have been some awesome musicians who came from the Punk scene just look at people like Dave Ruffy and Segs Jennings from the Ruts or East Bay Ray. the guitarist from the Dead Kennedys and a man who can play a load of so called Jazzmen under the bloody table, 

 

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

 

 

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

punkrock was just twelve year olds in their uniforms jumping up and down spitting at each other.

Do you even realise how ridiculous that sounds ?

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

Rotten is one of the biggest dickheads allowed to have an opinion on music in  the mass media. The only sensible thing he ever said was on an American tour when he admitted - ever got the idea you've been conned

That comment was actually directed at Malcom McClaren and the bands management company ,not at the audience.

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

rubbish  hip hop (most of it) is like a modern day  punkrock while the best hip hop (the minority) comes from reggae, funk and Jazz.

The worst Hip Hop is like any good musical genre which becomes diluted and homogenized for the masses.

The best Hip Hop comes from everywhere, its not pigeon holed and categorized as easily as that my friend, the influence of all music on Hip Hop spreads far and wide ,..the majority of the best stuff that ive heard in the last couple of years has actually come from the underground by artists who in a lot of cases aren't even signed to record labels and release music through the Hip Hop forums,or sites like Soundcloud or Bandcamp..again a select few are producing brilliantly creative music which is very forward thinking and wholly intent on breaking down musical barriers which can only be a good thing in my opinion.

Edited by Soulsides
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1 minute ago, Soulsides said:

What does that even mean..do you believe all of the nonsense about how the Pistols couldn't play ? ...they were one of the tightest bands ever with their original line up.There have been some awesome musicians who came from the Punk scene just look at people like Dave Ruffy and Segs Jennings from the Ruts or East Bay Ray. the guitarist from the Dead Kennedys and a man who can play a load of so called Jazzmen under the bloody table, 

 

 

Do you even realise how ridiculous that sounds ?

That comment was actually directed at Malcom McClaren and the bands management company ,not at the audience.

The worst Hip Hop is like any good musical genre which becomes diluted and homogenized for the masses.

The best Hip Hop comes from everywhere, its not pigeon holed and categorized as easily as that my friend, the influence of all music on Hip Hop spreads far and wide ,..the majority of the best stuff that ive heard in the last couple of years has actually come from the underground by artists who in a lot of cases aren't even signed to record labels and release music through the Hip Hop forums,or sites like Soundcloud or Bandcamp..again a select few are producing brilliantly creative music which is very forward thinking and wholly intent on breaking down musical barriers which can only be a good thing in my opinion.

Mate don't rise to the bait or 'bate. He's a hater and a jazz troll and he don't know his onions. Deep breath.... 

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8 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Nah...Extremely blinkered view. There are only two types of music in the world for me, good and S***e, I don't go for genres.

A great deal of the music we all collectively love here has a lot in common with Punk as a matter of fact. Lacking the musical sophistication of the commercially manufactured soul of Motown etc, which were manufactured sounds/compositions made by whole teams of consummate professionals, a huge amount of the 'Northern soul' sounds were created by artists and groups in the early stages of their development, much in the same vein as Punk. The naivety of many of the compositions is very close to Punk if you know enough about the subject to be able to analyse it, if you know what a 'three-chord-trick' is then you'll see it, Northern soul is brimming with them, the 'two-chord-trick' isn't uncommon either. 

The Beatles were overplayed to death when we were kids true, but the music was and remains phenomenal.

As a footnote to that I know soulies who say The Beach Boys is s***e! 

Third-party-facepalm.jpg

Hey I'm a Little Bit Country Your a Little Bit Rock n Roll... 

😂

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39 minutes ago, chalky said:

But how much of that played was actually soul music, I think that is the point being made.  The Northern Soul scene is serving those who attend and as you rightly say had or have a joyous time, not soul music.

Plenty of rare soul plenty top 500 many not truly soul but who cares music is to be enjoyed not put into boxes.i understand the point but a lot of people love soul because of the northern scene not inspite of it

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2 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

This is a soul music forum. WTF are we talking about the most overrated band ( beatles ) in the world for and punk which like rock stands for everything that a soulie dislikes, that still stands to this day. 

That's my opinion 

Ste

I must get a copy of the rule book for music lovers, haven't managed to read that one yet...

What is it 'we' dislike Steve? Is it the manufactured pop music side of things? Best bin all yer Motown records first then eh?

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Just now, Joey said:

Buggered if I'm going to get involved in this one. I've pi$$ed enough people on this site off already.😂😂😂😂

LoL Joey, you keep saying this but you post some good stuff!

It's all only a bit of fun I'm assuming, slow bank holiday, poor performance from the fave football side, stir a bit of light-hearted banter on the soul forum...

Wouldn't do for us all to like the same, I mean some people call themselves a soulie and don't like Peggy March, Joey Hetherton, Blanche Carter etc...

I mean, as if? :hatsoff2:

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15 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

This is a soul music forum. WTF are we talking about the most overrated band ( beatles ) in the world for and punk which like rock stands for everything that a soulie dislikes, that still stands to this day. 

That's my opinion 

Ste

Bummer, must get onto Mike, we need a 'love this post' button badly!

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I must get a copy of the rule book for music lovers, haven't managed to read that one yet...

What is it 'we' dislike Steve? Is it the manufactured pop music side of things? Best bin all yer Motown records first then eh?

As I said that's only my opinion . Its each to there own. 

Having been brought up in a working class northern town . At school you basically had a choice to be a Soulie or rock /pop type person. I choose the first option. I thought then and still do now how smart generally people on this scene dress.

People have different views and opinions which is what makes these type of forums work. 

I choose not to listen to normal radio stations apart from the specialist programs because the music again in my opinion is not to my tastes.

Ste

Edited by Winsford Soul
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Joey said:

Buggered if I'm going to get involved in this one. I've pi$$ed enough people on this site off already.😂😂😂😂

There's only one thing worse than being talked about and that's not being talked about. 

Oscar Wilde

Edited by themroc
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1 minute ago, themroc said:

There's only one thing wore than being talked about and that's not being talked about. 

Oscar Wilde

I rather think Mr. Wilde would have been a magnificent contributor to this site, where he with us today. 

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Just now, Winsford Soul said:

As I said that's only my opinion . Its each to there own. 

Having been brought up in a working class northern town . At school you basically had a choice to be a Soulie or rock /pop type person. I choose the first option. royale brogues, ben shermans , barathea blazers etc etc. I thought then and still do now how smart generally people on this scene dress. 

I choose not to listen to normal radio stations apart from the specialist programs because the music again in my opinion is not to my tastes.

Ste

I know Steve, you're fine mate, I like dressing smart too, doesn't affect my music tastes though.

You know me mate, say what you feel, it's all good!

You get the odd scruffy buggers on the scene down 'ere, but then, west coast livin' eh? Boardshorts, Flip-flops, we even have one who turns up in Lycra cycling wear! All beauties though, me though I do dress sophisticated yes, but I have to, the ladies expect it from me, being one of the, shall we say, exceptionally good looking lads...

Much like your good self Steve! :hatsoff2:

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18 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I know Steve, you're fine mate, I like dressing smart too, doesn't affect my music tastes though.

You know me mate, say what you feel, it's all good!

You get the odd scruffy buggers on the scene down 'ere, but then, west coast livin' eh? Boardshorts, Flip-flops, we even have one who turns up in Lycra cycling wear! All beauties though, me though I do dress sophisticated yes, but I have to, the ladies expect it from me, being one of the, shall we say, exceptionally good looking lads...

Much like your good self Steve! :hatsoff2:

Me suited and booted with one of my dearest friends. The gorgeous Jayne taken about 8am after a recent Swinton nighter

 

Jayne & Me.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Me suited and booted with one of my dearest friends. The gorgeous Jayne taken about 8am after a recent Swinton nighter

 

Jayne & Me.jpg

You look a bit blurred Steve, were you drinking?

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

You look a bit blurred Steve, were you drinking?

No mate. Don't  drink.  Especially when I'm driving.  

Edited by Winsford Soul
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1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

This is a soul music forum. WTF are we talking about the most overrated band ( beatles ) in the world for and punk which like rock stands for everything that a soulie dislikes, that still stands to this day. 

That's my opinion 

Ste

I sort of get where you are coming from Steve. We have enough disagreements (surely) on N.S. without introducing other music stuff. Or at least I think that’s what you are driving at?

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Without the influence of black music most other genres of music would not exist . Times and tastes change for me Hip hop is the modern day blues just need to be selective . 

Having a pop at other types of music is pointless soul music isnt the only show in town I quite happily go out to soul nights in a guns and roses t shirt .

As for the original premise of the thread its our scene its not been left in our hands we own it like all the best scenes it came up from the streets . The Northern soul scene is unique in spite of the media freindly fame whores that appear on the telly or the very irritating Juds Northern soul on youtube .

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Joey said:

I rather think Mr. Wilde would have been a magnificent contributor to this site, where he with us today. 

he would Joey- "The Soul of Man under Socialism" is an 1891 essay by Oscar Wilde in which he expounds a libertarian socialist worldview

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On 24/05/2018 at 13:15, Winsford Soul said:

That youth culture has made me the person that I am today.  Don't really know any other way of life. What am I supposed to do ? Would love to know . We where the lucky ones . There isn't even a youth culture today when I look at my kids . 

Steve 

Steve - I think I disagree when you say that there isn't a youth culture anymore. It's true that there aren't the musical tribes of our youth but my children seem to have their different ways of doing things that if I'm honest I don't always get. My youngest who is still at school has his own language designed to exclude me (thank goodness), wears his hair short, dresses in a particular way,  displays a brio I never had and claims he despises 'my' music (but then I find him playing Etta James and Small Faces in his room so I'm suspicious of  that).

We were a post War generation who had more chances than our parents and grandparents for whom following a youth culture was an indulgence (My Grandad served in both World wars) . I think my generation had a gilded time really and were able to prosper through hard work and fortunate circumstances. Sadly I'm not sure that all my Children and Grandchildren  will have it so easy. 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Firecrest said:

Steve - I think I disagree when you say that there isn't a youth culture anymore. It's true that there aren't the musical tribes of our youth but my children seem to have their different ways of doing things that if I'm honest I don't always get. My youngest who is still at school has his own language designed to exclude me (thank goodness), wears his hair short, dresses in a particular way,  displays a brio I never had and claims he despises 'my' music (but then I find him playing Etta James and Small Faces in his room so I'm suspicious of  that).

We were a post War generation who had more chances than our parents and grandparents for whom following a youth culture was an indulgence (My Grandad served in both World wars) . I think my generation had a gilded time really and were able to prosper through hard work and fortunate circumstances. Sadly I'm not sure that all my Children and Grandchildren  will have it so easy. 

 

Of course there's a youth culture, it's the sub-cultures that are missing.  Northern Soul is a sub-culture that lost its youth tag a few decades ago.

Edited by Steve S 60
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Firecrest said:

Steve - I think I disagree when you say that there isn't a youth culture anymore. It's true that there aren't the musical tribes of our youth but my children seem to have their different ways of doing things that if I'm honest I don't always get. My youngest who is still at school has his own language designed to exclude me (thank goodness), wears his hair short, dresses in a particular way,  displays a brio I never had and claims he despises 'my' music (but then I find him playing Etta James and Small Faces in his room so I'm suspicious of  that).

We were a post War generation who had more chances than our parents and grandparents for whom following a youth culture was an indulgence (My Grandad served in both World wars) . I think my generation had a gilded time really and were able to prosper through hard work and fortunate circumstances. Sadly I'm not sure that all my Children and Grandchildren  will have it so easy. 

 

Now then, I was a new romantic, and I can only say this here cause I know it won't go any further. I started as a Bowie Freak down the Goldmine in make up being spat at by Soulies. I was really into the whole Eno Electro sound, Kraftwork ect ect. I can hear tutting but in NYC at the Studio people like me punks, gays and Black urban youth would listen and be influenced by what they heard. Bambatta picked it up amongst others and ran with it. Breaks were applied from old tunes and e everything that followed..... Would I buy a Grime tune now? No I've moved on but I can't deny my musical heritage, It formed me because, and I'll keep saying it, all life is a dialectical process. 

Been a long weekend but love you people. HAVE A GOODEN NOW. 

Edited by themroc
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45 minutes ago, themroc said:

Now then, I was a new romantic, and I can only say this here cause I know it won't go any further. I started as a Bowie Freak down the Goldmine in make up being spat at by Soulies. I was really into the whole Eno Electro sound, Kraftwork ect ect. I can hear tutting but in NYC at the Studio people like me punks, gays and Black urban youth would listen and be influenced by what they heard. Bambatta picked it up amongst others and ran with it. Breaks were applied from old tunes and e everything that followed..... Would I buy a Grime tune now? No I've moved on but I can't deny my musical heritage, It formed me because, and I'll keep saying it, all life is a dialectical process. 

Been a long weekend but love you people. HAVE A GOODEN NOW. 

Love and Peace

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A root without knowledge of its branches is like a tree without roots. Er I think. What's that nurse "medication time?" 

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Having started the thread and now read the comments I would conclude with the words of my favourite poet:

'All things that we love and cherish

Like ourselves must fade and perish'

Shelley

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Great art, music, literature doesn't die. Just the fads the media rams down our throats.

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In my musical journey the road l have taken has had many traffic lights ,sign posts ,crossroads , etc etc, my journey continues  !! .        Spanish Pedro 2018 .  👅🎶

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Jane McDonald! 

Gorgeous, shakin' her hips in those Jeans, and Cowboy boots 🤪...

 

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11 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Jane McDonald! 

 

 

Any relation to Mike McDonald. God knows :dash2:  :D:D:D Out of here

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Posted (edited)

music is like food really, you like what you like and others the same for them - I don't slag off someone else's taste in food 'cos it's bloody silly if you think about it - same with music, I never liked punk or the Beatles for no other reason than the sound received in my cloth ears isn't for me..but Motown and then NS soul then modern just took hold..it's possibly not a bad thing if the scene is in the hands of older 'curators' otherwise it might get polluted with the McDonalds equivalent of soul music but dressed up as fine soul food (if that makes sense :-))

Edited by Shufflin
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1 hour ago, Mark Bicknell said:

 

called the cops

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There's a guy on the floor most of the night at Bury, always see him there. Was told he dances in the same way as he did at The Catacombs. We always make the same comment, there he is...fabulous!

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6 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

LoL Joey, you keep saying this but you post some good stuff!

It's all only a bit of fun I'm assuming, slow bank holiday, poor performance from the fave football side, stir a bit of light-hearted banter on the soul forum...

Wouldn't do for us all to like the same, I mean some people call themselves a soulie and don't like Peggy March, Joey Hetherton, Blanche Carter etc...

I mean, as if? :hatsoff2:

You missed out our Holly....

 

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1 hour ago, professorturnups said:

You missed out our Holly....

 

The soul scene for many was a dance scene, not everyone, but I would suggest a majority. Holly St James is never going to be a soul record - I'm purposely not using the term "northern", but it is a fantastic, atmospheric, dance record, particularly so for the majority of attendees, who were off their faces on amphetamine. It is a record that I still like hearing.

Pete 

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OK northern is a subculture not a type of music: most of it is but it is too varied. I found as teenager that liking soul and reggae was not only to my taste, but got you girls if you could dance, while heavy metal, pop, or glam didn't so much. Hormones rule! Later I discovered jazz. I noticed later in the eighties in Manchester that the Wheel chappies where much more open minded to new soul music, and a wider selection of black music, than some of the Wigan chappies though if you listen to the recent thread on the Wheel sounds that is slightly incredible. The record collectors on the balcanoy at Wigan [I never went despite being offered a lift] kept northern alive in the 80's while the Mecca boys moved on a bit. All this is generlisation. Why all this debate about pop music? Go listen to a Candi Staton record: deep or dancer and clear your mind. Just a few thoughts and hello to Steve Tulip. Right the morphine has kicked it in now I'm going back to bed.

dean

Edited by dean jj
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8 hours ago, Peter99 said:

The soul scene for many was a dance scene, not everyone, but I would suggest a majority. Holly St James is never going to be a soul record - I'm purposely not using the term "northern", but it is a fantastic, atmospheric, dance record, particularly so for the majority of attendees, who were off their faces on amphetamine. It is a record that I still like hearing.

Pete 

Already been into this discussion but anybody who attends now knows hsj is very much part of the scene but no it's not soul but a great record to dance to. 

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On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 18:58, soul shrews said:

I"m looking forward to the 1st OAP underground culture 😜😜

Cheers Paul

sam 'n kitty Alzheimer's rest home !!!🤒

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Had a discussion about installing a Stanner Stair Lift at the 100 Club 🙄

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