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Babinski

Favorite two-step tracks/artists?

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27 minutes ago, surfcity said:

Very true sir . By the way did you advertise 'Safe Sounds' in any of the soul mags as I can remember seeing it somewhere ?

Yes, Blues and Soul. You might recall the slogan accompanying it for some while which was well received among many collectors in those days. Pricing? Not every brothers a soul brother.

We probably know each other? Send me a PM and reveal all.

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29 minutes ago, Martin S said:

Yes, Blues and Soul. You might recall the slogan accompanying it for some while which was well received among many collectors in those days. Pricing? Not every brothers a soul brother.

We probably know each other? Send me a PM and reveal all.

'Not every brothers a soul brother' - ha , ha -  I remember that very well - used to make me smile . I may have purchased off you back in the day - but would have been a long time ago [ Surrey way ? ]. Anyway nice to speak to you and some great input to this thread from yourself - particularly the BPM's .

Edited by surfcity
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Lambert & Potter produced for Player which hit the mainstream - the intro is great - instant drum / bass sound and paced right . The slow boom / tick backing is the sound that 2 step collectors look for .

 

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7 hours ago, surfcity said:

'Not every brothers a soul brother' - ha , ha -  I remember that very well - used to make me smile . I may have purchased off you back in the day - but would have been a long time ago [ Surrey way ? ]. Anyway nice to speak to you and some great input to this thread from yourself - particularly the BPM's .

It was amazing how much respect that phrase generated. I had insisted it was to be shown as lower case throughout. It ran for a long time before John Hassinger at B&S gave me a call one day following "concerns raised by another advertiser" LOL. Those 'ers seemed intent on forcing up prices throughout the market with no justification other than greed, and worse still, on many run of the mill titles. I couldn't tolerate anymore of them following this incident: Gloucester Road, Kensington, Record Fair. I had an LP priced at £7 that they wanted. They would most likely have sold it for at least £10. The only record they had that was sensibly priced that I wanted was £8. Hard to believe but they wouldn't do a straight swap, they insisted on the extra quid in cash. I was in Epsom until 1997.

Edited by Martin S

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8 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

For what it's worth, those bpms you are quoting up there probably are more 4 to the floor than 2 step, in my opinion at least.

Just clearing this up for everyone as Mickey's posting as shown in the quote, was a few postings after this one of mine: I made this comment because once tracks of 104 and 108 BPM were up. I think that's what Mickey is referring to and if so, he's correct, those BPM's are definitely dance/disco beat tempos, 104 is on the low side but it's in that territory.

Edited by Martin S

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I've gone through the last couple of days uploads and BPM'ed them loosely with one take, they're close enough for this thread but not spot on.

There's one person who imo is coming up with perfect two steppers time after time, surfcity. Check out the Player track, it's instantly two step right from the start. BPM is approx 81 to 82.5, tempo appears to fluctuate. Shara Nelson was a track I didn't know, it's 71.0 BPM. 

Whoever uploaded the Dramatics yesterday, another instant two stepper, approx 74 BPM.

Mickey's uploads were Miles Jaye 84.6, Wilton Felder 80 to 81, both of these were two steppers imo,  Roy Ayers 83.5 but did this track have a vocal as I only listened to the first two minutes and hadn't heard one by then? Leon Ware I wouldn't classify that track as two step as I felt it had no driving bassline/rhythm, BPM 96.3

Unfortunately some of the feel of the tracks and their BPM's from Blackpool, are towering over the threshold significantly at times. Neither of these first two came across to me as two step tracks, perhaps surfcity can give his opinion on these too? Kindred 85.0, Eramus Hall 100.7. Moving on to Gap Band Outstanding, this is an interesting one because I happen to think this is a two stepper despite it being a little on the high side BPM of 99.0. Lowrell Mellow Mellow classic two stepper with quite a fluctuating BPM (which is why I've tended to avoid a mix on this one) around 87.5 over a short timing I just did. As regards to Will King I don't know what happened there, it's as much an obvious dance track as I am typing this sentence, but we'll put that one down to a mistake, it's 108.2 BPM, as are all of the following: Lillo Thomas Sexy Girl ! Rene & Angela I'll Be Good, Aurra You & Me Tonight, which gives you some idea where it should lie.

At this point perhaps I should ask this question: Does everyone reading this thread know how to calculate BPM's correctly? If you don't there's no shame in it, just ask and I'll put a posting up explaining it in detail. There's no point people guessing and uploading tracks that turn out to be way over the likely two step threshold. 

Edited by Martin S

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I'm loving this thread and I've listened to all of the tracks posted and will continue doing so! I have greatly enjoyed the recent posts by Martin S and his definition of a proper 2 step record was both interesting and new to me. Like I said in the first post however I'm not a dancer and to me it's not a dealbreaker if the lyrics are about break ups or whatever and same goes for BPMs. Personally I'm just looking for that laidback, funky sound so as far I'm concerned just keep em coming - proper 2 step or not!

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I just edited the end of my previous posting by deleting what was the final paragraph as I've changed the details of the project I had suggested there. 

We're going to try to find a majority opinion on what may qualify as the general rule for two stepping BPM's. Nobody has suggested any of the 15 I posted a few days ago were not two steppers, although I did state I felt two weren't anyhow. So now we will move up a notch on the BPM's which are accurate calculated to one tenth of a beat from records in my own collection. I have uploaded 5 tracks which I believe are two steppers [see edit], or as damned close to it as I feel is reasonable. If you think all 5 tracks are two steppers please up-vote the posting. If there are any that you don't feel are two steppers, please reply with a detailed explanation as to why. Thanks, Martin

Edit: A couple of hours after posting I took a listen to the tracks again and on reflection Yours Truly is "way too bouncy" for a two stepper and there's no distinct solid bass line. It's a dance track despite the lowish BPM. Miles Jaye borderline, Michael Henderson two step, Cool Notes two step, D Train two step. So take Yours Truly out the equation, just the other 4 to give opinion on.

Yours Truly - Come and get it 86.9 [What a tune - One to get out when things are going against you - What a pick me up]

Miles Jaye - Lets start over 88.9

Michael Henderson - Come To Me 89.5 [Those light guitar riffs have just sent chills up my back again]

Cool Notes - Secrets of the night 90.5 

DTrain Oh how I love you girl 91.4

 

Edited by Martin S

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3 minutes ago, Babinski said:

I'm loving this thread and I've listened to all of the tracks posted and will continue doing so! I have greatly enjoyed the recent posts by Martin S and his definition of a proper 2 step record was both interesting and new to me. Like I said in the first post however I'm not a dancer and to me it's not a dealbreaker if the lyrics are about break ups or whatever and same goes for BPMs. Personally I'm just looking for that laidback, funky sound so as far I'm concerned just keep em coming - proper 2 step or not!

I think you're going to enjoy these latest five immensely. What age are you please so that I have an idea of what you may or may not know already? What have been the new stand out tracks for you in this thread? Thanks for showing your appreciation. Martin

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22 minutes ago, Martin S said:

Unfortunately some of the feel of the tracks and their BPM's from Blackpool, are towering over the threshold significantly at times. Neither of these first two came across to me as two step tracks, perhaps surfcity can give his opinion on these too? Kindred 85.0, Eramus Hall 100.7.

 

Both tracks are excellent but Erasmus Hall is too fast and the Kindred track is borderline tempo imho 😀

A classic of the genre by Tyrone Davis -

 

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42 minutes ago, Martin S said:

I think you're going to enjoy these latest five immensely. What age are you please so that I have an idea of what you may or may not know already? What have been the new stand out tracks for you in this thread? Thanks for showing your appreciation. Martin

Thank you, I'll have a listen!

I was born in 1987 in Sweden. Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, Mariah Carey, Kylige Minogue etc was being played at the radio. Been listening to a lot of hiphop and contemporary electronic dance music growing up. Soulwise I didn't know anything at all until a couple of years ago when I got into buying records (not soul exclusively though, been buying a lot of hiphop, jazz, house, disco aswell) and since then I've been learning and listening a bit here and there I guess.

A couple of new tracks from this thread I really dig are Clausel - Let me love you, Edee - Make it last (this one I even bought a couple of days after hearing it), Rita Wright - Touch me, take me (wow!), Vanesse & Carolyn -  Goodbye song, Bennie Brexton - Come to me, First love - things are not the same, Intimate strangers - love sounds (WOW, really nice track), 80's ladies - turned on to you.

Some I already knew of but love them aswell; Passion - midnight lovers, Denise Kelly & fame - I'd like to get into you (heard it for the first time a couple of weeks ago, really really loving this one), Jeffrey - mr fix it, bobby caldwell - what you won't do, delegation - oh honey, floaters - float on, William devaughn - be thankful for what you've got (has to be one of my favorite tracks of all time), the emotions - flowers, Lowell - mellow mellow right on.

At the time I think I have a slight preference for the sound of the mid to late 70s, but early 70s and early 80s often works wonders aswell. Lately been getting more and more into the 80s sound with drum machines and all that.

Edited by Babinski

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To Babinski

The best advice I can give you for learning, is to follow through producers and musicians links on Discogs. This has taken most of the hard work out of research. The First Love I posted was from 1984, written and produced by Jason Bryant, the keyboardist from the SOS Band. First Love are probably my favourite female vocal outfit. You will need their LP on CIM from 1982 and the Dakar 12" from 1980, both of which are produced by legendary Chicago musician Donald Burnside. With that tip, you then follow his credits/backing musicians and you will need the Superior Movement LP on CIM from 1982, and Elaine & Ellen - Fill Me Up 1980, to begin with, plus almost anything else with his name on it. The Captain Sky LP's are semi P Funk. There's a Donald Pittman 45 from 1986 which DB produced which is highly collectible and qualifies as a two stepper. Quite expensive but I have a second copy should anyone be interested.

 

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10 hours ago, Babinski said:

At the time I think I have a slight preference for the sound of the mid to late 70s, but early 70s and early 80s often works wonders aswell. Lately been getting more and more into the 80s sound with drum machines and all that.

Morning Babinski . The 'sounds' roots are in those late 70's and early 80's tracks - Keith Barrow , Rita Wright , Passion etc but evolved as time went on with new production techniques . I personally would always prefer real instruments to drum machines but that's not to say they cannot be used effectively . When it comes to 2 steppers real instruments produce a 'softer' edge to the track as opposed to those hard edge drum machines that can sound harsh and clinical .

Here's another track that illustrates the beat well - forget the daft moaning and groaning - not unlike 'Intimate Strangers' the Rita Wright semi-instrumental .

 

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Despite no request for such yet, I'm going to give the instructions for BPM calculation at a professional level in a later posting today.

Regards Buttercup, it prompted me to just play the LP [Absence Without Love 1982] which was better than I recalled. Immediately I saw Buttercup posted I thought too fast for two step and had recollections of being in clubs with a full dance floor when it was played, it's 98.2 BPM [on the LP] which is already suggesting it may be too fast. The rhythm is too bouncy at that tempo for this to be a two stepper, however I pitched it down to what I felt gave it two step flavour, minus -4 on Technics 1200's which gave it a BPM of 92.7 approx.

On -4 "the feel" of the track is alarmingly different despite it only dropping 5.5 BPM, but you also have to consider the drop in percentage terms, it's 9.4% slower. If you listen to the drums carefully, despite the track having a bouncy feel they're not particularly high in the mix [unlike a clonking drum machine] and the hi-hat is creating a lot of the rhythm. When slowed down at -4, the spaces that open up between the beats in this example become significant and take it right in to the two step zone that it doesn't quite qualify for at its normal 98.2 BPM. Anyone who has the track and a Technics, try it out at -4 and post your thoughts.

Regards BPM'ing Buttercup, it's very unusual in that almost every piece of music we own is based on blocks of 4 beats and rarely do we find even minor deviations, but in Buttercup there are several segments where 2 beats appear between refrains, for example at 1.04 and 1.44. So if you've had trouble calculating this one that explains it. The track is written by Stevie Wonder so whether this is a regular feature in his compositions I don't know as I haven't listened to enough of them in that amount of detail to be able to comment.

This is how Buttercup would have sounded if it had been released in 1973 by the Jackson 5. The BPM quickly calculated over a couple of early segments is around 92. The drum patterns on this version have many more non 4 beat segments and the arrangement is significantly different. It has both two step and disco segments to it.

 

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Robert Gilliam was a very popular track down here, 101.9 BPM but still considered a two stepper because of it's general feel with beats that have a well spaced out groove. No driving bass line but somehow enough ingredients to do the trick. I wonder what she was doing between that diabolical Buddah 12"  trash ["Magic In The Music" - trust me there ain't any in that example] she had in 1978 and then "All I Want" in 1985, which involved two members of GQ: Keith Sweat and Herb Lane.

I was looking at an old playlist from a function where I played "All I Want'" quite early in the night, it was the last track in the warm up section which then went as follows: Robert 101.9, First Love It's A Mystery To Me 101.7, C&C Music Factory I Found Love 101.9 [The "Rock To The Beat" vocal intro requires that you have to mix this track over an instrumental section of the previous track to avoid a clash of vocals, hence why First Love in the middle], DTrain Trying To Get Over Instrumental [Flip of Walk On By US 12] 103.2, Lillo Thomas Your'e A Good Girl Instr with Chorus 104.8 [UK 12], Kleeer Tonight 105.0, Change Mutual Attraction 105.6, Chic My Forbidden Lover 106.0, SOS High Hopes 106.9, World Premiere Share The Night 108.3, and so on. Babinski can put all of those down on his wants list straight away!

Edited by Martin S

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On ‎21‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:59, Martin S said:

Steve, the whole point of the thread is to educate readers as to what qualifies as a two step track. You are correct in stating that a lot of the tracks listed so far are not recognised two steppers and in response to this I have spent time breaking them down with reasons provided for such. However, someone might post a track that was stunning but not recognised yet, following which it will be.

I believe I'm correct in saying that the majority of readers would be far more interested to hear a bunch of titles that you believe are two steppers, rather than suggest the thread is closed. A one sentence negative posting helps no one. Please list titles that are not already in these 29 https://www.redbullradio.com/shows/sound-obsession/episodes/kirk-degiorgio-hackney-2-step-originals most of which I was asked for countless times throughout the 90's. 

Thanks

 

 

That's a fair comment and my apologies for the negative one-liner. Anyway, I would suggest for starters:-

Natures Divine - I Just Can't Control Myself

Betty Wright - Make Me Love The Rain

Betty Wright - Smother me

Rumpelstilskin - I Need You

Windy City - Just For You

Creative Source - Thanks For Loving Me

Keith Barrow - If Its Love You're Looking For

Skoolboyz -This Feeling Is For Real

Sahara - The Wind

Matt Covington - We Got One

Josie James - Win Your Love

Pure Pleasure - By My Side

Cloe Martin - It Comes To My Attention

Art Wilson - Stay

Numonics - You Lied

Delegation - In Love's Time

Esther Phillips - I Hope You'll Be Unhappy Without Me

Confunkshun - By Your Side

IND - I'm Not Ready

Pleasure - Thoughts Of Old Flames

Norman Connors - Wouldn't You Like To See

Everlife - Dream Machine

Kleeer - Say You'll Stay

Free Life - Wish You Were Here

Wee Gee - In The Rain

7 Miles High - She's Gone Away

Freedom - I Give You Love

Barkays - Attitudes

P Funk All Stars - One Of Those Summers

Serenade - La La La For Love

Hi Inergy - Save It For A Rainy Day

Osborne and Giles - I'll Make You A Offer

Shotgun - Love Attack

Chain Reaction - Never Lose Never Win

Breakwater - You Know I Love You

Wish - Your Love

Barry White - Playing Your Games

Fathers Children - Got To Get Away

Samson and Delilah - Don't Listen To Your Friends

Emotions - A Feeling Is

Future Flight - Hip-notic Lady

All of these are on YouTube and recommended listens/purchases.

 

 

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Steve, what a fantastic contribution, I don't think anyone saw that coming! Thanks for apol's as well. At a glance there's a few there I don't know so I will check those out. Thanks for not putting the videos up as well because it takes so much space with that number. If there's any site personnel reading this, is it possible to reduce the amount of page space the videos take up please? Thanks, Martin

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Samson and Delilah - Don't Listen To Your Friends - Pittsburgh International Records

If anyone has this 45, can you please look in the run out groove and post the matrix number details. There's no year stated on the label and I want to establish whether this is the first release of the song, as I have the version by First Class on 12" Parkway. I prefer that version hence haven't chased the S&D. On Discogs another record on Pittsburgh Intl is listed as being pressed at Goldisc, Long Island, NY. I have a database with a selection of matrix's from that plant that might allow me to date it. Or if anyone has precise info on both releases which they are able to quantify, please post it.  Good atmosphere on this thread, enjoying it, thanks, Martin

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When I worked as barman in a macro-discotheque in my student years, this mellow track by Gene Dunlap feat. The Ridgeways was played during years when the DJ's  played "slow" (during around 30 - 45' they played ballads for "to dance embraced"; "Lover's Hollydays" by Lou Rawls, "Turn Of The Lights" by Teddy Pendergrass, "Reunited" by Peaches & Herb, "Being With You" by Smokey Robinson among others were the usual soul ballads between 1980 and 1985 every "slow session"). But I think "It's Just The Way I Feel It" is not a ballad for the tempo and for the structure. I'm wondering if can be labeled as a two step one (?):

 

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Hi Gloss "You'll Never Know" was a massive hit in the pop charts here in the UK, it's 98.5 BPM and I personally think this one qualifies as a two stepper. It's too fast for a ballad but not quite fast enough for a dance/disco beat. "I'm Totally Yours" on the flip of the single, and on the LP, is a mind blowing boogie track, check it out if you haven't already heard it. Two of my favourite musicians, Timmy Allen [Bass] and Kae Williams [Keyboards] from the BB&Q, Change, and High Fashion set up, play on this LP.

I'm Totally Yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvSO3dy4amg

 

Edited by Martin S

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1 hour ago, Martin S said:

Samson and Delilah - Don't Listen To Your Friends - Pittsburgh International Records

If anyone has this 45, can you please look in the run out groove and post the matrix number details. There's no year stated on the label and I want to establish whether this is the first release of the song, as I have the version by First Class on 12" Parkway. I prefer that version hence haven't chased the S&D. On Discogs another record on Pittsburgh Intl is listed as being pressed at Goldisc, Long Island, NY. I have a database with a selection of matrix's from that plant that might allow me to date it. Or if anyone has precise info on both releases which they are able to quantify, please post it.  Good atmosphere on this thread, enjoying it, thanks, Martin

I have it and I'll post those details tomorrow along with a long list of other two step treasures nestling nicely on my shelves!!

 

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2 hours ago, steveh73 said:

I would suggest for starters:-

Natures Divine - I Just Can't Control Myself

Betty Wright - Make Me Love The Rain

Betty Wright - Smother me

Rumpelstilskin - I Need You

Windy City - Just For You

Creative Source - Thanks For Loving Me

Keith Barrow - If Its Love You're Looking For

Skoolboyz -This Feeling Is For Real

Sahara - The Wind

Matt Covington - We Got One

Josie James - Win Your Love

Pure Pleasure - By My Side

Cloe Martin - It Comes To My Attention

Art Wilson - Stay

Numonics - You Lied

Delegation - In Love's Time

Esther Phillips - I Hope You'll Be Unhappy Without Me

Confunkshun - By Your Side

IND - I'm Not Ready

Pleasure - Thoughts Of Old Flames

Norman Connors - Wouldn't You Like To See

Everlife - Dream Machine

Kleeer - Say You'll Stay

Free Life - Wish You Were Here

Wee Gee - In The Rain

7 Miles High - She's Gone Away

Freedom - I Give You Love

Barkays - Attitudes

P Funk All Stars - One Of Those Summers

Serenade - La La La For Love

Hi Inergy - Save It For A Rainy Day

Osborne and Giles - I'll Make You A Offer

Shotgun - Love Attack

Chain Reaction - Never Lose Never Win

Breakwater - You Know I Love You

Wish - Your Love

Barry White - Playing Your Games

Fathers Children - Got To Get Away

Samson and Delilah - Don't Listen To Your Friends

Emotions - A Feeling Is

Future Flight - Hip-notic Lady

All of these are on YouTube and recommended listens/purchases.

Steve, if Babinski goes broke we know who to blame. I have just finished going through the list and every one of them is a two stepper. I knew all but a few of them so it was quite a simple task. You clearly know what you're talking about. 

There were 3 tracks I'd never heard before. The IND track is the flip of a 45 on an obscure label, however its A side is on the excellent LP on Erect which I have. Sahara was a track I used to see written on wants lists but had never heard. It sounds okay but not one I would put on my own list. I didn't know the Windy City track. There's another non-LP 45 by them which I have, the mind blowing "I still love you baby."

https://www.discogs.com/Windy-City-I-Still-Love-You/master/669171

It's strange how occasionally there's a major label LP that I see a photo of, and think how the hell have I never owned a copy of that? The Fathers Children on Mercury is one of those examples, although I don't remember this LP being common in the UK. 

For me, the instantly recognisable stand outs were Art Wilson, 7 Miles High, Serenade [both sides], Shotgun [the chorus melody is the high point, sent chills down my back yet again], and Josie James with its awesome bass line courtesy of Nigel Martinez, check out his work with Billy Ocean and Light Of The World in particular, he's also the bassist on The Evasions Wikka Rap! 

I always preferred the flipside of the Wish track, it's a similar tempo, "You're The One," doesn't seem to be on youtube though. Two tracks of that tempo were an unusual release for Rams Horn, which is the label I have it on. Can't recall ever seeing the US 12".

Thanks, Martin

 

Edited by Martin S

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10 minutes ago, Martin S said:

Steve, if Babinski goes broke we know who to blame. I have just finished going through the list and every one of them is a two stepper. I knew all but a few of them so it was quite a simple task. You clearly know what you're talking about. 

There were 3 tracks I'd never heard before. The IND track is the flip of a 45 on an obscure label, however its A side is on the excellent LP on Erect which I have. Sahara was a track I used to see written on wants lists but had never heard. It sounds okay but not one I would put on my own list. I didn't know the Windy City track. There's another non-LP 45 by them which I have, the mind blowing "I still love you baby."

https://www.discogs.com/Windy-City-I-Still-Love-You/master/669171

It's strange how occasionally there's a major label LP that I see a photo of, and think how the hell have I never owned a copy of that? The Fathers Children on Mercury is one of those examples, although I don't remember this LP being common in the UK. 

For me, the instantly recognisable stand outs were Art Wilson, 7 Miles High, Serenade [both sides], Shotgun [the chorus melody is the high point, sent chills down my back yet again], and Josie James with its awesome bass line courtesy of Nigel Martinez, check out his work with Billy Ocean and Light Of The World in particular, he's also the bassist on The Evasions Wikka Rap! 

I always preferred the flipside of the Wish track, it's a similar tempo, "You're The One," doesn't seem to be on youtube though. Two tracks of that tempo were an unusual release for Rams Horn, which is the label I have it on. Can't recall ever seeing the US 12".

Thanks, Martin

 

Thanks very much for the pointers, Martin - I will definitely check them out. I don't think I've played You're The One so I'll put that right tomorrow. I've loved the two step sound since the late 80s and hearing Body Fusion etc for the first time. Aside from Hollywood Dreaming, the Fathers Children album isn't too at all and the tune I listed makes it a worthwhile purchase IMHO. The IND album is great too, abounding with decent two-steppers. Another listing to follow tomorrow 🙂

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How have I never made this connection before despite owning these records for so many years? There are several Wish 12"s written and produced by William "Blue" Lovett of The Manhattans, and they're on....."Blue" Records Inc. It's taken me until minutes ago to realise that the label is therefore probably his. In celebration of this I've uploaded 2 x two steppers [or thereabouts] from The Manhattans.

Just The Lonely Talking comes from their 1983 LP, which includes Crazy and Locked Up In Your Love. The versatility of the session musicians on this LP can be highlighted by Theodis Rodgers of Omni playing the piano on the uploaded track, yet only months either side of this you'll find him on West Phillips electro funker I'm Just A Sucker For A Pretty Face [Uncredited but I met West in the early 90's and got the low down on it]. The other track I've uploaded is from their 1985 LP which includes C'est La Vie, and You're Gonna Love Being Loved By Me. 

 

 

Edited by Martin S

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Hi Josep, two good tracks by the O'Jays, shame about that fuzz guitar in the first one. Let me deal with the second track in major detail and demonstrate the basics of calculating BPM's to a professional level. 

O'Jays - I Want You Here With Me

There is no change to the tempo whatsoever throughout the entire track except for a very minor fluctuation as it is about to fade out, but we're talking a differential so small [approx 0.2 of a BPM] that the human ear is not going to detect it without a metronome or drum machine based track running along side it. 

I'll break down the formula for the BPM of this track as if I'm helping someone with no prior experience. Until at least two timings have been made we're not going to know whether a metronome has been used in the recording. Using the video in your post, tap one of your feet to the beat and find what's known as "the one." Most pieces of music are constructed in blocks of 4 beats, so get familiar with counting 1, 2, 3, 4, to the beat.

You need a stopwatch that goes down to 100th of a second, I use Casio wristwatches for the task. Play the track and start your stopwatch "on the one" of the beat, and count 5 blocks of 4 beats, pausing [not stopping it outright] your stopwatch on the 20th beat. Write down the timing and release the pause so that you can continue timing. As you approach one minute prepare to stop the stopwatch "on a 4" of the beat either before or after a minute. Write down the timing. Here's mine:

I started on the one of a bar a few seconds into the track. My 20th beat landed on 13.46 seconds, I landed on a 4 at 61.91 seconds. I wrote that down and went back to where I started to get a second opinion. 13.53, and 61.91 bang on again but I've done this thousands of times hence the accuracy. The test over 20 beats is done just to get a rough idea of what to expect over a full minute. Here's the calculations, we'll base the 20 beats on 13.50 which is mid range of the two readings:

13.50 seconds divided by 19 beats, [not 20 because we started the stopwatch on the one] = 0.7105, then 60 [seconds] divided by  0.7105 = 84.44 BPM, now we have a rough idea. Next we take the 61.91 which landed on a 4, and divide it by 87 beats on this occasion. Although 88 is the nearest number in blocks of 4, we have to knock off the one that we started the stopwatch on. So 61.91 divided by 87 = 0.7116, then 60 [seconds] divided by 0.7116 = 84.31 BPM. Next I got a track out that I already knew was 84.3 and made with a drum machine [Emotions - Eternally. from 1985 LP] and ran it side by side mixed. There was barely any meaningful fluctuation in the mix and it needed the slightest + or - to correct it. I tested it over the full track on this occasion including the point at which it was suggested there might be an increase in the tempo, there wasn't. 

The section that Josep referred to was from 3 mins 49 seconds onwards. Rather than the beat, it was the significant change in the key that seems to have misled him. I've just played along to the track on the bass. The majority of the first 3 mins 48 seconds are with the rhythm section playing: G, F#, E, C, Low F, D. The vocals are G, E, C, Low F, [No vocals over the F# or D]. Once the track hits 3.49, the remainder of it is played as E, D#, D, D, D#, E. To the untrained ear maybe the beat might sound faster, but to me as a musician and experienced DJ it was clearly the same.

If you want to make very rough BPM calculations over 20 beats [dividing by 19] then this is a good way to start, but you must time a track for a full minute or damned close to it and take at least two readings to get accurate results. I BPM down to one tenth of a beat and this is precisely what I recommend for anyone serious about their presentation style and ability to mix. This should get anyone started, if confused then make a posting and I'll help, it's what I'm here for. There's too much bad information on this subject on the net which I don't want you to be fooled by.

Edited by Martin S

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20 hours ago, Martin S said:

Samson and Delilah - Don't Listen To Your Friends - Pittsburgh International Records

If anyone has this 45, can you please look in the run out groove and post the matrix number details. There's no year stated on the label and I want to establish whether this is the first release of the song, as I have the version by First Class on 12" Parkway. I prefer that version hence haven't chased the S&D. On Discogs another record on Pittsburgh Intl is listed as being pressed at Goldisc, Long Island, NY. I have a database with a selection of matrix's from that plant that might allow me to date it. Or if anyone has precise info on both releases which they are able to quantify, please post it.  Good atmosphere on this thread, enjoying it, thanks, Martin

Regards the Samson and Delilah 7, I can see - SD400A - FWCS - S8621 806 I hope that helps.

And a few more 2 step tunes to search for, listen to and buy if you feel so inclined:-

Caprells - What You Need Baby

Caprells - I Believe In The Stars

Bill - I Feel Good With You

Booker T - I Want You

Patti Austin - We're In Love

Black Ice - Blind Over You

Rufus - We Got The Way

Tavares - Turn Out The Nightlight

Sting - Do It In The Shower

Chocolate Milk - Over The Rainbow

Atlantic Starr - With Your Love I Come Alive

Little Anthony - Your Love

Shaker - Give Me Love

Slave - We Can Make Love

Natalie Cole and Peabo Bryson - What You Won't Do For Love

Ruth Copeland - Heaven

Jewel Bass - Seeing You Again

Norman Connors - Melancholy Fire

Notations - Take It Slow

Smokey Robinson - Family Song

Natural Four - Count On Me

Curtis Mayfield - Tripping Out

Jacksons - That's What You Get For Being Polite

Jacksons - Blues Away

Jocelyn Brown - If I Can't Have Your Love

Light Of The World - Number One Girl

Hi Tension - Autumn Love

Enjoy!!!

Cheers, Steve...…….

 

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Just a quick reply @steveh73, thanks for the matrix of S & D, at a quick glance that places it in 1980/81 but I will need to check a few more references to be more accurate. I notice you listed another 45 by Shaker which although undated appears to be 1980/81 using the matrix number shown on Discogs. I have their 45 on Zanibar https://www.discogs.com/Shaker-Stay-A-While-With-Me-Since-Were-Not-Together/release/8665175 [side A not worth worrying about] which has the same B side as the track you listed. Glad you listed it as I can now move that 1983 45 forward 2 or 3 years as the recording sounds identical. It's a decent ballad, not a two stepper: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=220&v=BJggVrGqh7E Thanks

 

Edited by Martin S

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I was just looking at my copy of the Rufus LP Steve's track is from, and happened to notice on Youtube some breakdancers using the boogie track Tonight We Love from that LP. It struck me as quite an unusual one and the guys were good. So slightly off topic hence I've just inserted the link to keep space to a minimum, track will be a new find to some though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rVQzkTQBRc

Edited by Martin S

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@steveh73 There were 4 from that bunch I don't have, both the Caprells, Jewell Bass, and Shaker as mentioned earlier. Got a question on Ruth Copeland, have you listed the correct track Steve as it wasn't saying much when I just played it and the only track I've kept this LP for is "Milky Way Man" which imo is a great tune. For anyone who saw the name Sting and might have been surprised, don't panic, this is a soul group on ABC, a 1978 LP which I must say isn't great overall! Pick of that bunch for me would be the flip side of Bill, "Space Lady." I'll stick a few up later. Martin

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