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grahame c

Non Vinyl

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Hi my first post,here goes,

Being a relatively new follower of Northern soul/soul over the last 18 months and over 60 years old(I missed it when I was younger,girls,disco,playing squash)

Some of it I remember from Motown and I am afraid 3 certain adverts made me aware of it and I started checking the music out,I found some brilliant tracks from various artists,started buying CD's and then ventured to Northern soul/soul events locally to here my favourite tracks and learn to dance to them(after watching youtube videos)

   Then came a slight disappointment,I did not here them.I did here music that I had not heard before and some of it I liked some of it I did not but that is down to individual,2 events I did not dance at all.

   I then found out about Big Sound Snobbery,most DJ's wanting to play rare and obscure sounds which,ok can be good or bad and that's how you find new track's you like but what about filling the dance floor which they do not seem to be concerned about.

  I know have about 150 tracks that I would be on the dance floor to but very rarely hear them.

I do appreciate and understand the vinyl ethos and DJ's doing the tables etc and long may it continue,but why not have events that use other forms of media like CD's, mp3 in a room with a big dance floor,play the BIG Sounds and have the dance floor full,I would go because the music will be playing,would any body else.

  Look forward to constructive replies.

 

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9 hours ago, grahame c said:

Hi my first post,here goes,

Being a relatively new follower of Northern soul/soul over the last 18 months and over 60 years old(I missed it when I was younger,girls,disco,playing squash)

Some of it I remember from Motown and I am afraid 3 certain adverts made me aware of it and I started checking the music out,I found some brilliant tracks from various artists,started buying CD's and then ventured to Northern soul/soul events locally to here my favourite tracks and learn to dance to them(after watching youtube videos)

   Then came a slight disappointment,I did not here them.I did here music that I had not heard before and some of it I liked some of it I did not but that is down to individual,2 events I did not dance at all.

   I then found out about Big Sound Snobbery,most DJ's wanting to play rare and obscure sounds which,ok can be good or bad and that's how you find new track's you like but what about filling the dance floor which they do not seem to be concerned about.

  I know have about 150 tracks that I would be on the dance floor to but very rarely hear them.

I do appreciate and understand the vinyl ethos and DJ's doing the tables etc and long may it continue,but why not have events that use other forms of media like CD's, mp3 in a room with a big dance floor,play the BIG Sounds and have the dance floor full,I would go because the music will be playing,would any body else.

  Look forward to constructive replies.

 

Thanks you have shattered my perception of soul music 

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In simple terms, Northern Soul is/was very much about exclusivity, certain DJs had certain rare records and if you wanted to hear them on their original format, you would sometimes have to travel hundreds of miles to do so. For me, the DJ was King. They were exciting times, we were young and the records weren't that much older.

This 'scene' is now donkeys years old, so what may be new to you is considered standard fare to others. Northern Soul is now a broader church and there are thousands of great records out there, so you can't guarantee hearing the stuff that is on your CDs. With all due respect, you are just as likely to hear the 'big sounds' at wedding receptions and retirement parties via CD and (more likely) digital files these days.

So, welcome and just enjoy what you have been missing out on for all these years. 

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10 minutes ago, Sliced Tomanogoe said:

 I find I don't even like some tracks that my fellow soulies would die for.

Ditto :D

Welcome to the site grahame c.

All the best,

Len :thumbsup:

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21 minutes ago, Sliced Tomanogoe said:

Hi Graham, 

I am relatively new to the site also and as although I have been enjoying soul music over half of my life I am still only 33 and just when I feel I have scratched the surface of the general sound of what floats my boat something comes along and knocks me off my feet.

I, like you missed the boat for the original venues (such as the Wheel, Casino et al), in fact that ship had sailed long before the twinkle in my fathers eye! So I do understand the journey you are on discovering what is known to many as the 'scene'.

In my early days I thought I knew what 'Northern Soul' was, most likely the said '150 tunes' you refer to were in that list. My first visits to soul do's, all dayers & weekenders I was left baffled as 'where are my 150 dancers?! I don't know any of these records?!' - what changed was my attitude, I stop trying to recognise the track but simply enjoy it, I stopped trying to analyse everything I heard but paid attention to those records that reached out to me.

Over years of searching and listening and digging and searching and listening and digging... I have found that I will never find or even hear every 'northern soul' song, I find I don't even like some tracks that my fellow soulies would die for. But whats left is a catalogue of music that I never knew were possible, I speak with a passion of a decade of hearing music that will live with me forever, not only that but I know that I still have so much more to discover, its such an exciting position to be in.

As for broadening your horizons, I have found that Soul Source and its members are the most knowledgeable and informative (and mostly friendly!) bunch you will come across, often defensive and protective of their art but it all stems from a passion that personally can only be stirred from good old fashioned soul (Northern or not) music.

Don't feel disheartened that you weren't there at the beginning, revel in the fact you are a few songs away from hearing your favourite song of all time... 

...until the next one comes along. 

Here's one of mine, Dave. 

 

 

That's one amazing reply.  Love it. 

Steve 

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13 hours ago, grahame c said:

Hi my first post,here goes,

Being a relatively new follower of Northern soul/soul over the last 18 months and over 60 years old(I missed it when I was younger,girls,disco,playing squash)

Some of it I remember from Motown and I am afraid 3 certain adverts made me aware of it and I started checking the music out,I found some brilliant tracks from various artists,started buying CD's and then ventured to Northern soul/soul events locally to here my favourite tracks and learn to dance to them(after watching youtube videos)

   Then came a slight disappointment,I did not here them.I did here music that I had not heard before and some of it I liked some of it I did not but that is down to individual,2 events I did not dance at all.

   I then found out about Big Sound Snobbery,most DJ's wanting to play rare and obscure sounds which,ok can be good or bad and that's how you find new track's you like but what about filling the dance floor which they do not seem to be concerned about.

  I know have about 150 tracks that I would be on the dance floor to but very rarely hear them.

I do appreciate and understand the vinyl ethos and DJ's doing the tables etc and long may it continue,but why not have events that use other forms of media like CD's, mp3 in a room with a big dance floor,play the BIG Sounds and have the dance floor full,I would go because the music will be playing,would any body else.

  Look forward to constructive replies.

 

Grahame

Don't despair or give up. The 150 sounds you know are just a tiny fraction of what's out there. As others have said trawl through Youtube and follow the recommendations and you will here a whole range of sounds that now constitute the rare soul scene - northern, modern, crossover, sweet group etc. Look on the dealer sites and play their sound files. As with any of us there will be tunes you like and others not, but I assure you there are thousands of tunes waiting for you.  

As for venues, DJ's, exclusivity, CD's, mp3's etc. that's a bit of a political minefield, but suffice to say (with tin hat firmly on) that CD's and mp3's at a venue are a bit of a no no. There are plenty of venues which still play towards the oldies scene with the classic sounds of yesteryear, and maybe this is the place to start for you. Look out for something advertised as 'Northern Soul & Motown Night' and I'm sure you will hear some of your faves and see a packed dance floor.

Record collecting need not be an expensive pastime as there are plenty of 5 quid records that will tickle your fancy.

But I would say come and join the scene with an open mind and listen to everything it has to offer.👍

Andy 

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Hi Grahame, 

Good post! I'm not sure the vinyl or non-vinyl is the issue here, lots of DJ's will have (as others have said) various top 500 tunes with them and most will play one or two at least. I suspect it may be the venues you've been to. Locally to me there are Rare/Northern Soul events that range from mainly top 500 to mainly not top 500 with all shades in between; I haven't counted but I'd say probably every night you'd hear at least 10 or so or sometimes a lot more.

I also think you need to look at it from a DJ's point of view - say you'd been DJing since the 70's and collected records all that time, you'll want to play all the stuff you think is great much of which will be new, not just the same 150 records over and over again. It would get so stale, even if you love those records, after the 500th spin anyone would get a bit bored. So I don't think it's snobbery more like sanity!

Having said that there are venues that just unashamedly play popular stuff - there are a couple not that far from me. One is billed as a "Soul night" has video DJ's and apparently plays a bit of Northern, a lot of Motown, 70's + 80's soul etc. I've not been to that though. The other I have been to is similar - popular soul Cameo, a bit of Michael Jackson, Luther Vandross, Barry White, Billy Ocean some 60's and again a few Northern things. It was OK, free in more a place to have a drink than a dance although some people did. 

These events are not listed on soul source though, I think they are both on Facebook. 

I think what you are suggesting would, however, be the worst of both worlds - by not having a vinyl policy it would alienate most people on the soul scene but at the same time sticking to the top 500 even would alienate the more casual dance music fan who only know the S song, DILY and  one or two others and would find most of the top 500 obscure. 

Edited by Timillustrator

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13 minutes ago, Koolkat said:

See...........I've never heard that Bessie Jones before. That's how mad northern soul is.

Nor had I until a year or so ago, despite having been around for more decades than I can remember - apparently played by Soul Sam, Top Rank Hanley 1973 - and just the other day I saw it on a Soussan sales list from 1975 - just goes to show how many tunes there are just under the radar...

Edited by Jerry Hipkiss

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4 hours ago, Sliced Tomanogoe said:

Hi Graham, 

I am relatively new to the site also and as although I have been enjoying soul music over half of my life I am still only 33 and just when I feel I have scratched the surface of the general sound of what floats my boat something comes along and knocks me off my feet.

I, like you missed the boat for the original venues (such as the Wheel, Casino et al), in fact that ship had sailed long before the twinkle in my fathers eye! So I do understand the journey you are on discovering what is known to many as the 'scene'.

In my early days I thought I knew what 'Northern Soul' was, most likely the said '150 tunes' you refer to were in that list. My first visits to soul do's, all dayers & weekenders I was left baffled as 'where are my 150 dancers?! I don't know any of these records?!' - what changed was my attitude, I stop trying to recognise the track but simply enjoy it, I stopped trying to analyse everything I heard but paid attention to those records that reached out to me.

Over years of searching and listening and digging and searching and listening and digging... I have found that I will never find or even hear every 'northern soul' song, I find I don't even like some tracks that my fellow soulies would die for. But whats left is a catalogue of music that I never knew were possible, I speak with a passion of a decade of hearing music that will live with me forever, not only that but I know that I still have so much more to discover, its such an exciting position to be in.

As for broadening your horizons, I have found that Soul Source and its members are the most knowledgeable and informative (and mostly friendly!) bunch you will come across, often defensive and protective of their art but it all stems from a passion that personally can only be stirred from good old fashioned soul (Northern or not) music.

Don't feel disheartened that you weren't there at the beginning, revel in the fact you are a few songs away from hearing your favourite song of all time... 

...until the next one comes along. 

Here's one of mine, Dave. 

 

 

A truly wonderful response by you.

Yes, good advice you gave to the OP. You are right to say “Don't feel disheartened that you weren't there at the beginning” - 

and it got me thinking...

Everyone’s beginning starts at a different point. For instance, (and you could pick TW, Va Va's ,Torch,etc) i wonder how many are still around [and i hope it's many] who heard the first play of The Sherrys -Put Your Arms Around Me ( BTW: i think you’d need to be born at least before 1960). So the scene's history is fantastic- but don't let it hold you back.

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A counter point would be my recollection of attending Burnley about 10 years ago, for context burnley was renowned as one of the best upfront nights around. A dj played "a little togetherness". an the two dj"s, I was with, both well Know on the scene. said "that's the final straw I were not driving up here to listen to this". I think just about every track played that night wouldn't scrape the top 1000 but they were both really pissed of about the younghearts. 

And to be honest I wasn't impressed myself. 

Edited by geeselad

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3 hours ago, geeselad said:

A dj played "a little togetherness". an the two dj"s, I was with, both well Know on the scene. said "that's the final straw I were not driving up here to listen to this". I think just about every track played that night wouldn't scrape the top 1000 but they were both really pissed of about the younghearts. And to be honest I wasn't impressed myself. 

Not being a collector of Northern myself, BUT importantly being able to recognise what I perceive to be a good song when I hear it, out of curiosity I had a listen to The Younghearts. It sounds damned good to me, so what was the complaint about it in this instance? 

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Just now, Martin S said:

Not being a collector of Northern myself, BUT importantly being able to recognise what I perceive to be a good song when I hear it, out of curiosity I had a listen to The Younghearts. It sounds damned good to me, so what was the complaint about it in this instance? 

One of the scene's biggest and most enduring sounds, hence some people have heard it many times, a staple of the scene for it's entire history post The Torch, where it was an anthem, love it! Younghearts/New Younghearts/The Tempoes all the same band.

 

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Hi Graham, take a listen to all 10 of the tracks I linked in the "Tomorrow's Promise" thread in the forum. They are a mixture of uptempo tracks and ballads from 1973 to 1975. They should be a good test for your preferred styles. Did you realise it's possible to download from youtube? 

 

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Martin S,The 9th Track was pretty good,the others a bit slow for me,cheers

Mark S,Not bad and a bit more to my liking,cheers.

I will look into the youtube downloading,Ta.

 

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I'm glad I saw this thread as I had forgotten how good this midtempo funk cut is. Is it the same Rudy Love?

 

Edited by Martin S

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1 hour ago, Mark S said:

The soul scene is more complex than Brexit not just musically , politically we have been having the same arguements for the last 40 odd years and still not resolved them 😉 All good fun though

The soul scene, complex? I think this offering should dispell that theory. Otis in fine voice:

 

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It's fair to say it's one of Otis's least well known tunes but with such a wonderful melody, if spun by the right DJ's I feel it could well regenerate an outbreak of body popping in hoods such as Blackburn, Grimsby, and Middlesbrough. 

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17 hours ago, grahame c said:

Hi All,Thankyou for your replies and input.

From the music perspective I do agree with a lot of your comments,it is early days and thereis a lot of stuff I have not heard yet,wether it be classic,modern,rare etc andi am not sure what falls into each category.

 I was going to put a copy of my list in this post from a scan to my laptop,buggered if I could do it,so gave up.Open to help there.

I do like the more up tempo,faster beat stuff generally,

  Sidney Barnes-Standing on solid ground(Great)

Moses Smith-Girl across the street-makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

Cause your mine-Temptations etc etc.

Thanks BabyboyandM ,your uploaded tracks pretty good.

It certainly varies from person to person.I will still venture out and discover.

I went to an ordinary music event last Saturday(disco stuff) and got bored.

There does seem a difference of how long you have been on the scene as to how you rate the music.

Coming back to my initial question of non vinyl,I am not advocating you have one or the other at a venue but whether they can be side to side and possibly the CD,MP3 promoting the vinyl.

It certainly is easier to get CD ,MP3 than vinyl and cheaper.

PS if I get my list uploaded perhaps somebody can tell me the predominant category my taste lies.

Again thankyou for your replies.

 

 

It would be interesting to see your list, I like to see other people's perspectives on things. If you could save it to your computer somewhere as a PDF or JPG you should just be able to drag it into a post as you type below. 

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Hi,Have been trying to load my lists but its not working,bloody computers,any techies out there.

Got to go out now,will try again,watch this space.

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22 hours ago, Martin S said:

Not being a collector of Northern myself, BUT importantly being able to recognise what I perceive to be a good song when I hear it, out of curiosity I had a listen to The Younghearts. It sounds damned good to me, so what was the complaint about it in this instance? 

Must be great hearing a track like that for the first time, but for most of us it's absolutely hammered to the point that the nails are coming out the other side. I most certainly not what you'd travel a distance to hear.

Seriously I would I thought it's a 'most likely heard" down your grab a gran or grandad with trilby an Fred perry night. Really don't mean to sound arrogant but I'm surprised anyone who's found this site hasn't heard it, esp if from the UK. 

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Not being a collector of Northern or having attended any such events as I prefer mid 70's onwards, I have simply never previously been exposed to that track and the style is not a sound I would go hunting for. I fully understand what you mean though, it would be like me going out to an event only to be subjected to what I believe to be the most overplayed track in the south, Roy Ayers Running Away, which I might do upon hearing it.

In the 90's another track that was hammered to oblivion down here was New Jersey Connection Love Don't Come Easy. I got tired of it, but haven't been going out for some years now and when I played it at home two weeks ago not having heard it for potentially an entire decade it sounded phenomenal.

Edited by Martin S

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4 hours ago, Martin S said:

Not being a collector of Northern or having attended any such events as I prefer mid 70's onwards, I have simply never previously been exposed to that track and the style is not a sound I would go hunting for. I fully understand what you mean though, it would be like me going out to an event only to be subjected to what I believe to be the most overplayed track in the south, Roy Ayers Running Away, which I might do upon hearing it.

In the 90's another track that was hammered to oblivion down here was New Jersey Connection Love Don't Come Easy. I got tired of it, but haven't been going out for some years now and when I played it at home two weeks ago not having heard it for potentially an entire decade it sounded phenomenal.

OK fair point, I understand your perspective, hope you get mine. I apologise for any offence but I think that's how anyone with Northern nounce would se it. Atb. I geese. 

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7 hours ago, geeselad said:

I apologise for any offence but I think that's how anyone with Northern nounce would se it. Atb. I geese. 

Don't worry, I wasn't offended at all. The scenario prompted me to think of tracks that infuriated me (although ultimately the DJ's playing them were the ones to blame), on the same basis, in particular during the 90's when most of the following were being sampled as well as played to death. It was just about possible to have heard all the following offences committed at one function in the London & South East area:

Mary Jane Girls All fking night long (The track is so toilet I cannot understand why anyone would even want to play it) 

Roy Ayers Running away, but not quickly enough

Jackson Sisters I believe in miracles, of which one would be never hearing this again on a night out

Maceo Across the tracks, ditto and I might have to lay on some if I'm subjected to this yet again

Gwen McCrae All this love, Funky sensation, and Keep the fire burning

Jocelyn Brown Somebody elses guy.

Despite some of them being great tracks, I'm feeling angry just looking at them so I fully understand your point now!

Edited by Martin S

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Well I have just listened to the above tracks and even more confused as to my perception of Northern soul/soul music,

Love bandit and Does your mama know I would not class as NS/S,they are certainly more funkish and not for me at the moment,

Suffering Wrath I quite like that and to me still has the thing to make me listen to it.

Martin S made a interesting point on hearing some track he had fell out of love with,forgot about it for years and got reintroduced to it  and re-found it which can happen to a lot of us and that is the same as a new follower finding for the first time the overplayed classics that the long time followers have fell out of love with.

PS still trying to load my lists???

 

 

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Grahame, the titles Martin posted are somewhat obscure...

Here's a selection of huge Northern Soul oldies, all Top 500 sounds, see what you think of these!

 

Finally here's one of my videos showing the kind of atmosphere to expect at a top drawer Northern event, Djs are Mr Dean Carr and the Late Mr Lee Vowles, the tracks are Gerri Grainger 'I go to pieces' and Ray Pollard 'The Drifter'. 

 

Edited by BabyBoyAndMyLass
Added an addition and changed one.

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13 minutes ago, grahame c said:

That's more like it,liked all those and have a couple in my list.

Look again, I was in the process of editing that post when you replied!

I'll bang up some quality from the rare/underplayed scene in the thread when I've got time later on, glad you liked those, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on the scene that didn't like that selection, some might be bored of hearing them, but they are all much loved if people are honest!

Have a look at my first forum thread here, some class here, Mirwood label related, as I said fantastic label to look into! 

 

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