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Talc - yes or no?

Freebasing Kathryn Magson

 
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4 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

Have you been to a ' full' 100 club nighter? Unless they banned drink...its inevitable the floor suffers as there is nowhere near enough room to keep it away from the dance floor and still be in your control! Great atmosphere though! Ed

Assuming it's not the 100 club in London [which I have never been to either], then the answer is no as I don't even know where it is! 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Timillustrator said:

As an example over Christmas I went to the Green Rooms in Hinckley - Excellent DJ's, good atmosphere but the floor was horrible. Concrete sub base, real wood strip but I have no idea what they put on it, I couldn't move my feet and my ankles were killing me. After half an hour I went outside and literally scraped 1mm of thick black gunk off the soles

It's a Masonic Hall.  The thick black gunk was probably left over from some initiation ceremony.

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Posted
1 hour ago, LEN said:

I've posted this before.....

As you can read on this flyer I gave out at the event, it was a hazard in this instance.

Len :thumbsup:

2147375125_NoTalc!.thumb.JPG.2731258ea59ba8850d5763695165081f.JPG

Len  - please can we have more details of the elderly lady who slipped over? Was it a 101 year old wandering in with her dog, a 53 year old soulie swirling around in a circle skirt or a cleaner tidying up the church hall the day after?

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Posted
5 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Please can we have more details of the elderly lady who slipped over? Was it a 101 year old wandering in with her dog?

I believe it was as she'd been refused entry earlier that evening at the 100 Club 🤣

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Posted
7 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Len  - please can we have more details of the elderly lady who slipped over? Was it a 101 year old wandering in with her dog, a 53 year old soulie swirling around in a circle skirt or a cleaner tidying up the church hall the day after?

It was in actual fact a 101 year old soulie who coincidentally cleans the church hall after she walks her dog :D

Len :thumbsup: 

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Posted

Another downside, if folks take Talc to no-talc venues, it then leads to bag searches, which has to be bad news...

Talc shouldn't be encouraged, it settles on your lungs and is Carcinogenic.

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Posted

CARELESS TALC COSTS LIVES

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Talc shouldn't be encouraged, it settles on your lungs and is Carcinogenic.

There's no actual evidence of that though. The American case was about ovarian cancer for genital use (unlikely on a dancefloor) and other research is inconclusive. As someone earlier mentioned the asbestos bit is also a red herring and dates back many decades, checks in the 2000's found none. Whereas there is loads of asbestos around us - the artex on the ceiling in the room I am sitting in now for one, the vinyl tiles that were in my kitchen etc. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/29/is-it-safe-to-use-talcum-baby-powder-ovarian-cancer-johnson-johnson

Edited by Timillustrator
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Posted

Each to their own, but personally, no.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Talc shouldn't be encouraged, it settles on your lungs and is Carcinogenic.

 

Interestingly (for me), this is a subject I've read about quite recently.

There was a class action law suit in the USA in which a number of women (or their families) received record damages on the basis that Johnson & Johnson talc caused ovarian cancer. Likewise, there have been two or three individual cases where people have been awarded damages because of talc use and ovarian cancer. The argument goes that talc used by women on their sensitive parts can theoretically travel internally via the fallopian tubes to the ovaries and might cause inflammation, which in turn might lead to ovarian cancer.

The key word is "might", although clinical studies mainly find no causal link.

Another link between talc and cancer comes from the fact that when mined from the earth, talcum powder contains asbestos. However, refined talc has been asbestos free since the 1970s.

The connection to lung cancer is associated with the workers who mined talc - because they were exposed to the asbestos contained within the unrefined talc. Clinical studies into a causal link are mixed. But, studies show no medical correlation between talc use and lung cancer. 

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (part of the World Health Organisation) added talc to its list of known or possible carcinogens. However talc is categorised under Group 2B, which are things identified as being "possibly carcinogenic to humans".

The emphasis is very much on the word "possibly". Basically, they might cause cancer, but we don't really know. Coffee is on the Group 2B list.

So, I'd be very wary of stating that talc is carcinogenic.

It can certainly be an irritant, can make the dance floor dangerous, and can ruin your camera. And people who say that they only put a little bit down in the corner (or wherever) fail to appreciate that it spreads - it spreads via the soles of your shoes, on clothing, and through the air. It gets everywhere!

And I've yet to see anyone using talc do little more than Dad (or Mum) dance. 

Edited by Amsterdam Russ
Factual correction
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Posted
10 hours ago, Steve S 60 said:

It's a Masonic Hall.  The thick black gunk was probably left over from some initiation ceremony.

Don't they burn the entrails of those that betray them? That could have been what it was!😁

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (part of the World Health Organisation) added talc to its list of known or possible carcinogens. However talc is categorised under Group 2B, which are things identified as being "possibly carcinogenic to humans".

The emphasis is very much on the word "possibly". Basically, they might cause cancer, but we don't really know. Coffee is on the Group 2B list.

So, I'd be very wary of stating that talc is carcinogenic.

 

Very well said. Interestingly red meat is in Group 2A "probably carcinogenic" and processed meat  is in group 1 along with tobacco and asbestos as "carcinogenic to humans" a strong argument for banning both pork pies and ham sandwiches at venues 😂

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Timillustrator said:

...a strong argument for banning both pork pies and ham sandwiches at venues 😂

Certainly people need to be discouraged from believing that scattering them on the floor will somehow improve their dancing! 🤣

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Posted

I would be very wary of stating that talc causes cancer too - but it definitely DOES irritate the lungs - I myself struggle to breathe & I  have quite a few friends who also have the same problem. I've reluctantly had to make the same decision that they have - to stick to no talc venues from now on - even though it means giving up on one of my favourite soul nights. For long enough I've kept telling myself that maybe a small amount is bearable - that I can try to  avoid it - stay in another area of the room etc. 

Lungs have to come first - even a small amount of talc causes problems for me now.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Kathryn Magson said:

I would be very wary of stating that talc causes cancer too - but it definitely DOES irritate the lungs - I myself struggle to breathe & I  have quite a few friends who also have the same problem. I've reluctantly had to make the same decision that they have - to stick to no talc venues from now on - even though it means giving up on one of my favourite soul nights. For long enough I've kept telling myself that maybe a small amount is bearable - that I can try to  avoid it - stay in another area of the room etc. 

Lungs have to come first - even a small amount of talc causes problems for me now.

Very interesting post, I have Asthma and Silicosis and had a bypass last year that I had hoped would improve my breathlessness, I'd never considered that Talc could possibly make my breathing worse but I will monitor the proximity of any talc in future and the level of my breathlessness when dancing which is very limited sometimes struggling after half the record. Still coming to terms with the recent Silicosis diagnosis so maybe nothing may help but every little increment would be a good thing. Thanks for the input.

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

Very interesting post, I have Asthma and Silicosis and had a bypass last year that I had hoped would improve my breathlessness, I'd never considered that Talc could possibly make my breathing worse but I will monitor the proximity of any talc in future and the level of my breathlessness when dancing which is very limited sometimes struggling after half the record. Still coming to terms with the recent Silicosis diagnosis so maybe nothing may help but every little increment would be a good thing. Thanks for the input.

If the 'bypass' was an heart bypass it hasn't anything to do with Asthma or Silicosis and although such an operation can improve your breathing significantly because blood reaches the heart much better when clogged arteries are 'bypassed', it still doesn't actually do anything for breathlessness attributable to asthma or silicosis. They are all separate issues. So speaketh the 'king of the bypasses', quintuple here which is akin to being reborn if there are no other issues. :)

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Steve C said:

If the 'bypass' was an heart bypass it hasn't anything to do with Asthma or Silicosis and although such an operation can improve your breathing significantly because blood reaches the heart much better when clogged arteries are 'bypassed', it still doesn't actually do anything for breathlessness attributable to asthma or silicosis. They are all separate issues. So speaketh the 'king of the bypasses', quintuple here which is akin to being reborn if there are no other issues. :)

I was aware of that, the Silicosis was diagnosed after the bypass (quad) the two problems had been fighting against eachother re treatment for over a year, can't do this until your heart is sorted, can't do your heart until your lungs are sorted kinda thing. My hope that the breathing would be improved was down to my brother being diagnosed with Asthma for several years then having a bypass himself after which his breathing was fine.

I knew it was a long shot and was warned by the heart surgeon that the possibility was remote of any improvement in my breathing but hope springs eternal as they say. It's been hard coming to terms with how I feel as others I have spoken to like yourself felt like a new man after the bypass. Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Twoshoes
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Posted
4 hours ago, Timillustrator said:

There's no actual evidence of that though. The American case was about ovarian cancer for genital use (unlikely on a dancefloor) and other research is inconclusive. As someone earlier mentioned the asbestos bit is also a red herring and dates back many decades, checks in the 2000's found none. Whereas there is loads of asbestos around us - the artex on the ceiling in the room I am sitting in now for one, the vinyl tiles that were in my kitchen etc. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/29/is-it-safe-to-use-talcum-baby-powder-ovarian-cancer-johnson-johnson

Let's keep some perspective here. There's a lot of recent spurious science funded in the main by the legal profession in the states who are busy chasing legal claims for approaching 1 trillion dollars. It's a hell of a lot of money and we shouldn't be surprised when the first casualty in the process are the facts. At this juncture claims have been based upon the use of talc in the genital areas and the idea that overuse of same may have some correlation to ovarian cancer. Note, that at the last time of looking the higher courts were actually overturning decisions made in lower courts regarding damages awarded. At any rate throwing half a cannister of talc up your uterus and leaving it there really isn't the same as breathing an atmosphere that might contain relatively small quantities of talc. I think let's avoid unnecessary hysteria on this subject.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kathryn Magson said:

i would be very wary of stating that talc causes cancer too - but it definitely DOES irritate the lungs - I myself struggle to breathe & I  have quite a few friends who also have the same problem. I've reluctantly had to make the same decision that they have - to stick to no talc venues from now on - even though it means giving up on one of my favourite soul nights. For long enough I've kept telling myself that maybe a small amount is bearable - that I can try to  avoid it - stay in another area of the room etc. 

Lungs have to come first - even a small amount of talc causes problems for me now.

Kathryn, do you also struggle when walking in heavily motorised areas, or 'dusty' surroundings ? In addition , Is the breathlessness intermittent or is it always there when you are say active? I don't wish to intrude ,but there are many reasons for breathlessness and in your own interests it would be good for you to have some idea as to the underlying causes. Personally, I was in denial for quite along time and it's really only random luck that I didn't pay for it seriously.

Edited by Steve C
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Posted
13 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

I was aware of that, the Silicosis was diagnosed after the bypass (quad) the two problems had been fighting against eachother re treatment for over a year, can't do this until your heart is sorted, can't do your heart until your lungs are sorted kinda thing. My hope that the breathing would be improved was down to my brother being diagnosed with Asthma for several years then having a bypass himself after which his breathing was fine.

I knew it was a long shot and was warned by the heart surgeon that the possibility was remote of any improvement in my breathing but hope springs eternal as they say. It's been hard coming to terms with how I feel as others I have spoken to like yourself felt like a new man after the bypass. Thanks for the reply.

Sincere best wishes from one survivor to another. I like you got a lot of help and staying mentally in the right place is essential, but easier said than done. Hey, my new years resolution, to see 2020  😉

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Posted

The only place talc should be found is a babies backside . These folk who spread half a bottle on a floor then move  further up the floor and repeat the process are a pain . Yes the floor may be great for them but for countless others it's a nightmare 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Steve C said:

Kathryn, do you also struggle when walking in heavily motorised areas, or 'dusty' surroundings ? In addition , Is the breathlessness intermittent or is it always there when you are say active? I don't wish to intrude ,but there are many reasons for breathlessness and in your own interests it would be good for you to have some idea as to the underlying causes. Personally, I was in denial for quite along time and it's really only random luck that I didn't pay for it seriously.

Hi Steve - only time I struggle is when the talc hits my throat - I feel as though I'm going to cough my lungs up & my throat & chest turn to concrete. I've never lived or worked in a dusty or heavily polluted area & if I've been sanding/decorating etc I've always worn a mask - proactively rather than reactive, so it's hard to say on that one. Had all sorts of pets all my life & fur/feathers have never bothered me either. Always been very active - gym - swimming - fell-walking - (although not done that recently).

Talc problem's definitely getting worse though - used to make me cough but then I'd be fine when I was away from it, but more recently it's taking longer to feel ok again.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

The only place talc should be found is a babies backside . These folk who spread half a bottle on a floor then move  further up the floor and repeat the process are a pain . Yes the floor may be great for them but for countless others it's a nightmare 

Couldn't agree more speedlimit - you hit the nail on the head!

I can't get this cartoon image out of my head - old soulies - all shoving zimmer frames &  towing oxygen cylinders covered in soul badges - into a dance hall & still insisting on chucking the Johnson's around.....Somebody once told that me I always see life as a cartoon...……...

Edited by Kathryn Magson
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Posted
19 minutes ago, Kathryn Magson said:

Hi Steve - only time I struggle is when the talc hits my throat - I feel as though I'm going to cough my lungs up & my throat & chest turn to concrete. I've never lived or worked in a dusty or heavily polluted area & if I've been sanding/decorating etc I've always worn a mask - proactively rather than reactive, so it's hard to say on that one. Had all sorts of pets all my life & fur/feathers have never bothered me either. Always been very active - gym - swimming - fell-walking - (although not done that recently).

Talc problem's definitely getting worse though - used to make me cough but then I'd be fine when I was away from it, but more recently it's taking longer to feel ok again.

Kathryn.  It was taking me longer and longer to get over things i used to take for granted i.e. carrying my heavy fishing tackle,  climbing ladders up big chimneys etc. Getting out of breath,  coughing and sputtering.  Guess what.  59years of age diagnosed with Asthma last June, Steroid inhaler from consultant,  twice a day. all fine now. Good health is precious. 

Steve 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Kathryn.  It was taking me longer and longer to get over things i used to take for granted i.e. carrying my heavy fishing tackle,  climbing ladders up big chimneys etc. Getting out of breath,  coughing and sputtering.  Guess what.  59years of age diagnosed with Asthma last June, Steroid inhaler from consultant,  twice a day. all fine now. Good health is precious. 

Steve 

Indeed Steve and you make the point I was highlighting for Kathryn very well through your own experience. It always pays to know the WHY behind these things.After that it becomes clearer what needs to be done.

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Posted

I think if things get worse I might find I need an inhaler too - hoping that if I avoid the talc I won't need one...…...

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Posted (edited)

Talc, Alcohol, and even Dance 'Workshops', yet many still have all the grace & style of a Half pissed Baby Giraffe in Diving boots.

Edited by Zed1
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Without being too controversial in nearly 50 years of being into northern love it or hate it talc has always been part of the scene much like the drugs. In my youth I can’t honestly remember a venue I attended where neither wasn’t used. I don’t disagree with the people that say it’s not good for you or that it’s not dangerous indeed talc may have had a small part to do with a venue that I used to frequent closing as there was an unfortunate incident when someone slipped on the dance floor breaking her wrist.  As a spinner (too old now) and slider I nearly always use a little talc if it’s around the edge of the dance floor but I would never take it to a venue. I agree with the earlier post that there are some venues where they don’t allow talc and the dance floor can actually be dangerous for the opposite reason, I’m thinking of one in particular that I went to recently in Chesterfield, great music but I had to be very selective on what to dance too as it was painful to dance on the uneven sticky dance floor (could well be old age again). Some of the larger venues don’t allow talc and it has put me off going to these as the floors tend to get covered in beer and dancing becomes a pain. I have totally empathy with anyone who’s health is affected by talc and fully understand why you wouldn’t want to go to the venues where it is used. If I was ever in the presence of someone that has ill health or if I’m ever asked not to use it then without hesitation I would not use it.

Tomo

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Posted (edited)
On 04/01/2019 at 10:01, Kathryn Magson said:

I've reluctantly had to make the same decision that they have - to stick to no talc venues from now on - even though it means giving up on one of my favourite soul nights. For long enough I've kept telling myself that maybe a small amount is bearable - that I can try to  avoid it - stay in another area of the room etc. 

Lungs have to come first - even a small amount of talc causes problems for me now.

I went out last night, only for a couple of hours, but it was interesting - a venue I'd never been to before; parquet floor on a concrete sub base in a local club which is usually a bit iffy but on the contrary it was clean as anything and perfectly slippy. The soles of my shoes were totally clean afterwards, no gunk whatsoever. Interestingly no one was using talc and there were no signs telling people not to either. Just goes to show that (perhaps?) if they really look after the floor no one will feel the need to use talc at all?? Maybe if you had a word with the promoters about the talc and explained that wherever the floor is well looked after talc is not needed. 

Edited by Timillustrator
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Posted (edited)

Some floors are really hard to dance on because they are dirty/sticky.  Others after polish is applied, are too slippy.

So I only used talc when needed, depending on the state of the dance floor. 

It depends on how you dance, some people can dance very well on carpets with trainers on!

I always prefered leather soled shoes and a dance floor that has a little bit of slip.

Edited by Guest

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Posted
3 hours ago, Timillustrator said:

 I went out last night, only for a couple of hours, but it was interesting - a venue I'd never been to before; parquet floor on a concrete sub base in a local club which is usually a bit iffy but on the contrary it was clean as anything and perfectly slippy. The soles of my shoes were totally clean afterwards, no gunk whatsoever. Interestingly no one was using talc and there were no signs telling people not to either. Just goes to show that (perhaps?) if they really look after the floor no one will feel the need to use talc at all?? Maybe if you had a word with the promoters about the talc and explained that wherever the floor is well looked after talc is not needed. 

Talc trays are provided by the club management & placed around the periphery of the room - I recently asked if they could be placed in one corner in the hope it might restrict the spread of it, but I was told this is not possible as the floor is not good enough. This - coupled with the talc that people take in - results in problems for me. Some seem quite happy with the talc being there & have no problem at all, but  I also  know of others who prefer to choose an alternative venue as they too suffer with breathing probs. I love the place - always a warm welcome - good sized room - the music's spot on - the buzz in the room is electric - people are very friendly - DJs are fab - bar's cheap (not that I drink very much) I just can't fault it apart from the talc...…...

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Posted

Out on the floor each night, you're really taking

The piss with all the talcum powder you're shaking

The size of the f*cking dust cloud you're making

The crowd that's in tonight will be gagging for sure,

While you spread your talc out on the floor.

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Posted

You really are wasted on here Steve ... :yes:

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Posted

I think we need a bit of support for talc..

 

Ed

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Posted
21 hours ago, Kathryn Magson said:

Talc trays are provided by the club management & placed around the periphery of the room - I recently asked if they could be placed in one corner in the hope it might restrict the spread of it, but I was told this is not possible as the floor is not good enough. 

Blimey! I've never seen that, the floor must be truly horrible. You think they'd invest in a floor buffer, there's one at £240 on eBay, the price of a reasonably rare 7".

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1 hour ago, Steve S 60 said:

Out on the floor each night, you're really taking

The piss with all the talcum powder you're shaking

The size of the f*cking dust cloud you're making

The crowd that's in tonight will be gagging for sure,

While you spread your talc out on the floor.

Love it Steve! 

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54 minutes ago, Timillustrator said:

Blimey! I've never seen that, the floor must be truly horrible. You think they'd invest in a floor buffer, there's one at £240 on eBay, the price of a reasonably rare 7".

The floor's not the best I've seen, nor is it the worst. I've managed to shuffle around on it often enough without talc - appropriate shoes help - the main problem is that so many people think that showering talc around - even on the best of dance floors -is a part of the ritual of a soul night, regardless of whether or not it's needed. 😠

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1 minute ago, Kathryn Magson said:

....is a part of the ritual of a soul night, regardless of whether or not it's needed. 😠

Always puts me in mind of Maximus Decimus Meridius prior to combat, when he bends down on the battlefield or in the arena to pick up a handful of soil / sand which he then holds up and allows to run through his hand and fall back onto the ground.  I'll have to try that with a handful of talc before I start dancing.  "Unleash hell."

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15 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

Always puts me in mind of Maximus Decimus Meridius prior to combat, when he bends down on the battlefield or in the arena to pick up a handful of soil / sand which he then holds up and allows to run through his hand and fall back onto the ground.  I'll have to try that with a handful of talc before I start dancing.  "Unleash hell."

You do Steve.Whenever you get to a venue they all say kin hell not you again 

Steve 

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45 minutes ago, Kathryn Magson said:

the main problem is that so many people think that showering talc around - even on the best of dance floors -is a part of the ritual of a soul night, regardless of whether or not it's needed. 😠

It's pathetic isn't it? Late middle aged people with that thinking, and more than likely the talc making hardly any difference to the dancing.

It also adds to the silly reputation the scene now has (and rightly so I'm afraid to say) I remember my eldest sister introducing me to a friend of hers and she mentioned northern soul. The chap said......."Do you put the talc down, then do the ol' northern soul dancing?"......He acted this out whilst saying it, and did a little twist - I was embarrassed. 

Nowt wrong with using a little bit of talc if it is needed, but keep it inconspicuous for gods sake.

Len :thumbsup:

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5 minutes ago, LEN said:

 

Nowt wrong with using a little bit of talc if it is needed, but keep it inconspicuous for gods sake.

Len :thumbsup:

Len.

There lies the answer mate. Dance floor coloured talc. Don't forget that you heard it here first folks. 

Steve 

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Posted

Yes

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1 hour ago, LEN said:

It's pathetic isn't it? Late middle aged people with that thinking, and more than likely the talc making hardly any difference to the dancing.

It also adds to the silly reputation the scene now has (and rightly so I'm afraid to say) I remember my eldest sister introducing me to a friend of hers and she mentioned northern soul. The chap said......."Do you put the talc down, then do the ol' northern soul dancing?"......He acted this out whilst saying it, and did a little twist - I was embarrassed. 

Nowt wrong with using a little bit of talc if it is needed, but keep it inconspicuous for gods sake.

Len :thumbsup:

len you have installed  visions of the lost father Ted episode ( if there is one) of Dermot doing the ol" northern soul dancing thing 👞👞

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Posted

Solution is simple the promoter buys a  bucket of Slipperene, it will last for donkeys years as most dancefloors are modest in size. If its the Stoke allnighter then pretty sure Kev could afford £2 worth of slipperene to ensure the floor stays brill and no talc needed.

https://www.fulcare.co.uk/slipperine-dance-floor-powder.html 

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1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

Len.

There lies the answer mate. Dance floor coloured talc. Don't forget that you heard it here first folks. 

Steve 

Steve, your talcamo powder may help avoid a lawsuit, but it still constitutes a slip hazard.  I think the answer is a pair of Hover Bags, allowing the user to glide effortlessly across the dance floor, regardless of the floor condition (patent pending)....

1939046394_HoverBags008(2).thumb.jpg.bd7f431289eb6f1c3c24af979f21355d.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I suggested Slipperine ages ago but it wasn't thought to be a good idea ☹️

If it's of interest to anyone, I found a facebook page called "No talc northern soul club" I joined it quite a while ago - the only venues allowed to post on there are those with a very strict no talc policy.

Edited by Kathryn Magson
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kathryn Magson said:

I suggested Slipperine ages ago but it wasn't thought to be a good idea ☹️

If it's of interest to anyone, I found a facebook page called "No talc northern soul club" I joined it quite a while ago - the only venues allowed to post on there are those with a very strict no talc policy.

Steve S - I'm just lovin' your posts! Making me laugh out loud 😂 🤣

Edited by Kathryn Magson

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Posted
On 05/01/2019 at 10:16, solidsoul said:

It depends on how you dance, some people can dance very well on carpets with trainers on!

Our crowd have started to practice dancing on the carpet in slippers for when we get to the old peoples home.

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Posted

Can we all agree that a low friction coefficient between footwear and flooring material enhances dancing ability.

The means of achieving this is what's at debate.

Of course variables such as weight per square mm, and agility of dancer plays a part.

God's know what reaction is coming? When the topic moves on to ky jel, and it ability to reduce friction:)

Ed

 

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Posted
On 04/01/2019 at 17:36, Zed1 said:

yet many still have all the grace & style of a Half pissed Baby Giraffe in Diving boots

the ones who bounce around taking up loads of space annoy me, but as for talc nope, just get good leather bottomed shoes to dance in (unless you are an Adidas Samba stomper)

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