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Johnny & The Brothers Of Soul......Who are they ?

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Two for sure in the States with collectors. Another over here with a YouTube user. Prob more about? I contacted the lable owner's family ages ago with no luck.

Gilly has a theory who it might be if i remember rightly.


There are other soul / funk releases on the label - Soul Commanders etc.

 

Edited by corbett80

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I reckon it's a great record in terms of soul power but i worry it might be a nightmare to try and dance to. Hopefully proved wrong - would love to hear it out full whack.

Edited by corbett80

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First aired on the fine wine show many years back by a guest collector, sure he would probably know as he has pretty much everything on the label , forgot to ask him, was more interested in finding the 45 

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Researched the whole dam lot of it, the family, including where all the original material went. Did everything I could but as usual no luck

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55 minutes ago, tim smithers said:

First aired on the fine wine show many years back by a guest collector, sure he would probably know as he has pretty much everything on the label , forgot to ask him, was more interested in finding the 45 

I looked at the label and it appears as though it is one of those labels (again) that sort of didn't mind what type of band and type of music was attached to it, as it is so varied, from doo-wop, through to garage rock, latin and gospel

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Looking at the label, going with what 45cat says it is 1967 or later.  The Soul Brothers Six were well established by then, doing well and I think John Ellison had left Rochester by then. 

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6 minutes ago, chalky said:

Its John Ellison not Jimmy but there is no mention of Johnny and the Brothers of Soul, either side nor the label in John Ellison’s autobiography.

Yes I meant to say Johnny Ellison, I will give you more details tomorrow as to why I think its the soul brothers six. 

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The music publishing is Cora Lee (as it is on several of the releases).  There is an earlier record on the label by Johnny C’Or? Maybe?

Edited by chalky

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There is a record that I have by the Soul Brothers Six called "I Don't Want To Cry" on Fine Records that came out of Rochester NY 1966 to me if you compare the voice on that song and with the one in question. The label is/was owned by the Osban family who ive tried to make contact with for a number of years. If the old man is still alive he is getting on for sure. The family still live in the same house to my knowledge and I have tried some of the extended family in touching base with but Americans are not noted for their replies.

     You may think I'm waffling here but there is a record by the Brothers of Soul on Rhythm (red label) there has been one for sale recently on Rare soul site out of Leicester £500 which is half the price ive seen it go for, I would love to own it but its against my principles to spend that kind of money on a record. One side is funk (that's actually been put out on another label) but the slow soul side I would dearly like to have. If readers on here can get a sound file of this well again the voice seems to compare.

     None of this has any link with the Detroit group before anyone wastes there time.

     OK these are my TWO theory's laugh all you like but its TWO more than anyone else has come up with 

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1 minute ago, Andy Rix said:

Lester Osband died in 2009 at the age of 96 .... I believe he owned the label

Andy

Yes Lester Osban is the name I have x

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1 hour ago, Gilly said:

There is a record that I have by the Soul Brothers Six called "I Don't Want To Cry" on Fine Records that came out of Rochester NY 1966 to me if you compare the voice on that song and with the one in question. The label is/was owned by the Osban family who ive tried to make contact with for a number of years. If the old man is still alive he is getting on for sure. The family still live in the same house to my knowledge and I have tried some of the extended family in touching base with but Americans are not noted for their replies.

     You may think I'm waffling here but there is a record by the Brothers of Soul on Rhythm (red label) there has been one for sale recently on Rare soul site out of Leicester £500 which is half the price ive seen it go for, I would love to own it but its against my principles to spend that kind of money on a record. One side is funk (that's actually been put out on another label) but the slow soul side I would dearly like to have. If readers on here can get a sound file of this well again the voice seems to compare.

     None of this has any link with the Detroit group before anyone wastes there time.

     OK these are my TWO theory's laugh all you like but its TWO more than anyone else has come up with 

 

Brothers.jpg

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1 hour ago, Gilly said:

There is a record that I have by the Soul Brothers Six called "I Don't Want To Cry" on Fine Records that came out of Rochester NY 1966 to me if you compare the voice on that song and with the one in question. The label is/was owned by the Osban family who ive tried to make contact with for a number of years. If the old man is still alive he is getting on for sure. The family still live in the same house to my knowledge and I have tried some of the extended family in touching base with but Americans are not noted for their replies.

     You may think I'm waffling here but there is a record by the Brothers of Soul on Rhythm (red label) there has been one for sale recently on Rare soul site out of Leicester £500 which is half the price ive seen it go for, I would love to own it but its against my principles to spend that kind of money on a record. One side is funk (that's actually been put out on another label) but the slow soul side I would dearly like to have. If readers on here can get a sound file of this well again the voice seems to compare.

     None of this has any link with the Detroit group before anyone wastes there time.

     OK these are my TWO theory's laugh all you like but its TWO more than anyone else has come up with 

I think you have solved it !!!

The Band was also known as John Ellison & Soul Brothers Six

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ellison

John could be Johnny me thinks

 

Soul.jpg

Edited by Blackpoolsoul
Image

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25 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I think you have solved it !!!

The Band was also known as John Ellison & Soul Brothers Six

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ellison

John could be Johnny me thinks

 

Soul.jpg

But they weren’t known as JE & The Soul Brothers Six, that would make 7 of them for a start.  They were the Soul Brothers Six on Fine as the label states, not as the youtube video states. 

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Yes, Lifetime Recording was founded by the late Lester Osband, he passed away in 2009. It was a walk in studio located on North St. Rochester NY. I believe the building in no longer standing. There are a lot of vanity recordings and local church choir releases on the label, one notable release is the Tempests "Rockin' Rochester" (Lifetime 1010) from 1960.

The Lifetime records were custom pressed by Rite in Ohio and the number on Johnny & the Brothers of Soul would put the pressing date in early 1968. Cora Lee was the in house publishing company for Lifetime Recordings. 

Interestingly, Cora Lee is the co-publisher of Soul Brothers Six "Oh I Need You Yes I Do" (Lyndell 747), written by one Willie J. Ellison. Issue copies are mis-titled "Sold Brothers Six". 

The link between the  Rochester-based "Soul Brothers Six"  and the Philly-based Lyndell label is Walter Rayfield. Rayfield was a truck driver who had a regular route making deliveries between the two cities. Rayfield saw John Ellison performing in a Rochester club and persuaded him to come down to Philly to record. Rayfield passed away in the early 80s.

Back to Lifetime, one of the members of the previously mentioned Tempests, Dave Kasperin, later became the second engineer at the studio working alongside Lester Osband, and took over the operation when Osband retired. He continues recording in Rochester to this day, although he as renamed and moved the studio. 

When I recently showed Dave Kasperin the "Johnny and The Brothers of Soul" 45, he listened to it and said he wasn't in the studio for that recording and had no knowledge of the group. 

It may be worth tracking down the original members of the "Soul Brothers Six", Sam, Charles, Moses, Gene, and Harry Armstrong. I would start with Sam Armstrong, the flip side of "Johnny and the Brothers of Soul" is called "Goodbye Sam", coincidence?

Edited by greeneggz

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The same John Ellison who had a couple of releases on Phil La Soul label? Just realised I've got "Doggone good feeling".

Edited by KevH

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2 hours ago, greeneggz said:

Yes, Lifetime Recording was founded by the late Lester Osband, he passed away in 2009. It was a walk in studio located on North St. Rochester NY. I believe the building in no longer standing. There are a lot of vanity recordings and local church choir releases on the label, one notable release is the Tempests "Rockin' Rochester" (Lifetime 1010) from 1960.

The Lifetime records were custom pressed by Rite in Ohio and the number on Johnny & the Brothers of Soul would put the pressing date in early 1968. Cora Lee was the in house publishing company for Lifetime Recordings. 

Interestingly, Cora Lee is the co-publisher of Soul Brothers Six "Oh I Need You Yes I Do" (Lyndell 747), written by one Willie J. Ellison. Issue copies are mis-titled "Sold Brothers Six". 

The link between the  Rochester-based "Soul Brothers Six"  and the Philly-based Lyndell label is Walter Rayfield. Rayfield was a truck driver who had a regular route making deliveries between the two cities. Rayfield saw John Ellison performing in a Rochester club and persuaded him to come down to Philly to record. Rayfield passed away in the early 80s.

Back to Lifetime, one of the members of the previously mentioned Tempests, Dave Kasperin, later became the second engineer at the studio working alongside Lester Osband, and took over the operation when Osband retired. He continues recording in Rochester to this day, although he as renamed and moved the studio. 

When I recently showed Dave Kasperin the "Johnny and The Brothers of Soul" 45, he listened to it and said he wasn't in the studio for that recording and had no knowledge of the group. 

It may be worth tracking down the original members of the "Soul Brothers Six", Sam, Charles, Moses, Gene, and Harry Armstrong. I would start with Sam Armstrong, the flip side of "Johnny and the Brothers of Soul" is called "Goodbye Sam", coincidence?

Might be a nod to the Vietnam war - Goodbye (uncle) Sam?

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31 minutes ago, KevH said:

The same John Ellison who had a couple of releases on Phil La Soul label? Just realised I've got "Doggone good feeling".

Some Kind Of Wonderful cut in Philly too at Virtue. 

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49 minutes ago, KevH said:

Might be a nod to the Vietnam war - Goodbye (uncle) Sam?

It's actually a tribute song to the late Sam Cooke. 

Edited by greeneggz

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59 minutes ago, greeneggz said:

It's actually a tribute song to the late Sam Cooke. 

Ha, so the Sam Armstrong coincidence was a curve ball. Not hear the track myself.

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4 hours ago, chalky said:

But they weren’t known as JE & The Soul Brothers Six, that would make 7 of them for a start.  They were the Soul Brothers Six on Fine as the label states, not as the youtube video states. 

Andy Hamiton explains the 6/7 theory here

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/soul-brothers-six-mn0000755527/biography

John, as far as I aware is still around, in Rochester and even visited Grand Funk, on stage, last year (They are one of his favourite bands)

There has to be a way of contacting him guys to get the story from him direct :)

http://www.wvmusichalloffame.com/hof_ellison.html

Edited by Blackpoolsoul
updated

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5 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Andy Hamiton explains the 6/7 theory here

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/soul-brothers-six-mn0000755527/biography

John, as far as I aware is still around, in Rochester and even visited Grand Funk, on stage, last year (They are one of his favourite bands)

There has to be a way of contacting him guys to get the story from him direct :)

http://www.wvmusichalloffame.com/hof_ellison.html

The Soul Brothers Six had been around four years when they recorded their first disc.  The one who apparently bailed must have done almost immediately so by the time they were recording they were six and had been for a while.  I will check the autobiography of John Ellison to be sure.  I seem to remember they were only 5 when he joined but will check.

I still can't see any logic as to why they would record as Johnny & The Soul Brothers when they had already been a popular club act and were just starting to record.  Unless it was released without their knowledge maybe?  If indeed it was them.

Will have a listen to sound files over the weekend.

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11 hours ago, chalky said:

The Soul Brothers Six had been around four years when they recorded their first disc.  The one who apparently bailed must have done almost immediately so by the time they were recording they were six and had been for a while.  I will check the autobiography of John Ellison to be sure.  I seem to remember they were only 5 when he joined but will check.

I still can't see any logic as to why they would record as Johnny & The Soul Brothers when they had already been a popular club act and were just starting to record.  Unless it was released without their knowledge maybe?  If indeed it was them.

Will have a listen to sound files over the weekend.

It's quite possible that "John Ellison & the Soul Brothers Six" are not in anyway related to "Johnny and The Brothers of Soul" on Lifetime. The only solid link is Lester Osband's Cora Lee publishing appears on the Lifetime Recordings 45, and on the Philly Lyndell 45 by "Soul Brother Six". From this we can speculate the "Soul Brothers Six" did have some dealings with Osband, probably using his studio to at least cut demos. 

By 1967 "Soul Brothers Six" were already releasing records on Atlantic. So why would they issue a 45 as "Johnny & the Brothers of Soul" in early 1968? Not sure. Although, I do know that around this time some of the founding members of the band, the Armstrong brothers, started to quit the group and return to Rochester. It's possible one them pressed up the Lifetime Recordings 45 from earlier demos they had recorded and put the record out as "Johnny & the Brothers of Soul". Pure speculation though. 

 

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4 minutes ago, greeneggz said:

It's quite possible that "John Ellison & the Soul Brothers Six" are not in anyway related to "Johnny and The Brothers of Soul" on Lifetime. The only solid link is Lester Osband's Cora Lee publishing appears on the Lifetime Recordings 45, and on the Philly Lyndell 45 by "Soul Brother Six". From this we can speculate the "Soul Brothers Six" did have some dealings with Osband, probably using his studio to at least cut demos. 

By 1967 "Soul Brothers Six" were already releasing records on Atlantic. So why would they issue a 45 as "Johnny & the Brothers of Soul" in early 1968? Not sure. Although, I do know that around this time some of the founding members of the band, the Armstrong brothers, started to quit the group and return to Rochester. It's possible one them pressed up the Lifetime Recordings 45 from earlier demos they had recorded and put the record out as "Johnny & the Brothers of Soul". Pure speculation though. 

 

If someone can contact John (info above) then he will know :)

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Since the email for John Ellison has kindly been put up I hope someone has made an attempt to contact him, guess its just a case of waiting for a reply.

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44 minutes ago, Gilly said:

Since the email for John Ellison has kindly been put up I hope someone has made an attempt to contact him, guess its just a case of waiting for a reply.

Emailed him yesterday mate

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In John Ellison’s (auto)biography he talks of a mixed race group a white guy called Johnny DiTondo was forming, two white, two black.  The two black being John Ellison and Houston Armstrong (drummer nicknamed Sam)  they called themselves the Satan’s Four and were popular round Rochester apparently for a while.  They practised in Johnny’s basement and Johnny’s father amanaged them on the road.

Maybe this Johnny put something to vinyl once Soul Brothers Six hit big with Some Kinda Wonderful?

 

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After the above group he sang in a group with Sam and Candy Shuman, Candy and the Red Hots. Then Sam left to be in a group with his with his brothers in a goup called The Brothers Four.  One of the brothers, Moses, left.  They then recruited two others and then John Ellison.  This was then the Soul Brothers Six.  Moses came back briefly to make it The Soul Brothers Six Plus One until one of the brothers drafted and they became six. 

Edited by chalky

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10 hours ago, greeneggz said:

Message from John Ellison:

"I am sorry but I have no knowledge of this group and I can assure you
they were in no way affiliated with the Soul Brothers Six."
-John Ellison

OK well that's one of my theory's out the window, so now we know, wonder about the Rhythm label connection 

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The Brothers Of Soul on Rhythm is from east Arkansas, so very unlikely it's related to the Lifetime record in any way.

"Brothers Of Soul" is one of the most common band names in 60s and early 70s soul (similar to The Outcasts or The Chosen Few in the garage genre), so to immediately link any groups sharing this moniker is a fool's errand.

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4 hours ago, DMC said:

The Brothers Of Soul on Rhythm is from east Arkansas, so very unlikely it's related to the Lifetime record in any way.

"Brothers Of Soul" is one of the most common band names in 60s and early 70s soul (similar to The Outcasts or The Chosen Few in the garage genre), so to immediately link any groups sharing this moniker is a fool's errand.

yes I had an address for Arkansas, but no reply 

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