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Posted (edited)

No disrespect, but you seemed to have 'marvelled' at every half decent team bar United?

Edited by chatty

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Posted

I was referring to regeneration outside of Anfield area , meaning that football clubs aren’t the only ones that provide regeneration. I was actually complementing city on getting the sheik in as Moores nearly did the deal with him and we wouldn’t have batted an eyelid about it so I wouldn’t want to be hypocritical and slate city for having his backing, moores went ahead with the yanks because he’d done a handshake with one of them and was very conscientious on that handshake that he was in turmoil about reneging on it , a principled man if you want , a rarity in itself ! 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, chatty said:

No disprect, but you seemed to have 'marvelled' at every half decent team bar United?

Nope, I marvelled at them alright, and also spent plenty of seasons green with envy at the quality of players they could put on the pitch. You may remember the level of player we had at Maine Rd during that period. United fans rubbed our noses in it enough! Plus, as with many Mancunians, I have (oh the shame!) a few United fans in the family, and can even count a few as very firm and old friends,  Credit where credit is due, United have had some good teams. My real issue, like most blues, is with the club, and how it has conducted itself over the years, certainly not its players. 

My main point, again, is that Uniteds all-conquering team of the nineties and naughties couldn't have happened had it not been for the financial windfall provided by first the Edwards family business, then the Murdoch cash, and then the stock market flotation. Same with Liverpool and the Moores plus Sky.  Once a club has a flying start on things like that, it's nigh on impossible to catch them, or even come close to matching them on the pitch once or twice a season. They had the cash to continually outbid anyone else for the best players, thus restricting all their rivals as to what or who they could buy. To continually moan about where City's windfall came from is disingenuous at best, and historically bereft of understanding at worst. Since football was invented and codified, there have always been clubs who have benefitted from having more money than others, and from other places than football itself. Once upon a time Arsenal were even known as "The Bank of England club", they were so wealthy. Trust me, that money didn't come from shirt sales in darkest Indonesia, or prize and TV money. 

The game today was a perfect demonstration of what City are, and what they can do. It's pure poetry at times, and unlike anything we've seen previously. Will it last? Who knows? Will City fans really care that much if tomorrow we're playing the likes of Scunthorpe and Macclesfield again? No, we won't. We're on an incredible rollercoaster of excitement, and will enjoy every bloody minute of it, deep in the knowledge that all rides come to an end one day. That, apparently, is something younger United fans are having major trouble coming to terms with, it would appear! 

Mind the gap! 

Edited by Joey
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Colnago said:

I was referring to regeneration outside of Anfield area , meaning that football clubs aren’t the only ones that provide regeneration. I was actually complementing city on getting the sheik in as Moores nearly did the deal with him and we wouldn’t have batted an eyelid about it so I wouldn’t want to be hypocritical and slate city for having his backing, moores went ahead with the yanks because he’d done a handshake with one of them and was very conscientious on that handshake that he was in turmoil about reneging on it , a principled man if you want , a rarity in itself ! 

Principled indeed. Mistaken also! As you say, any honest football fan would have been overjoyed had the Sheik taken their club over. But all we seem to get is abuse about it, borne, no doubt, from stomach churning envy.

I agree that most cities have been regenerated, to at least some degree or other. But, that particular part of east Manchester was awful. Nothing had been done since the war ended, and it was so rundown you wouldn't believe it. The council should have been ashamed of themselves. The Sheik, through the club, has made an enormous difference. Not just with the cash injection, but it's also given hope to the locals. Something that was sadly missing. And again, all this seems to be overlooked, by people yelling about "hooman rites" abuses, who don't know the first thing about societal and financial conditions in middle eastern countries. (I do by the way!).

Once upon a time, fans of all clubs would have enjoyed the type of football City play, and also Liverpools under Klopp. Not so today, sadly. Funny old game, eh? 😂

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Posted

 

Wrong. The first few years the money was handed out as per how many times you were the featured team on Sky. That was mostly United and Liverpool, who therefore benefitted most from the Sky deal.

 

As I have already stated that was on a supply and demand basis due to the clubs popularity over years and years.

You are defeating your own argument, that money did Liverpool no good whatsoever! 

Mind the chasm, 20 titles v 6.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, chatty said:

 

Wrong. The first few years the money was handed out as per how many times you were the featured team on Sky. That was mostly United and Liverpool, who therefore benefitted most from the Sky deal.

 

As I have already stated that was on a supply and demand basis due to the clubs popularity over years and years.

You are defeating your own argument, that money did Liverpool no good whatsoever! 

Mind the chasm, 20 titles v 6.

No, my argument is still valid. Initially it was most certainly not a supply and demand issue. The big five were actually first known as the big SKY five. Picked by television executives. Fans perhaps? It matters not where the cash comes from. It allows a club to progress. The argument slating City about the Sheiks involvement is disingenuous. United did not get all their cash from the turnstiles and number of tickets sold. The popularity only came later, especially the worldwide "fan base" created, once again, by Murdoch and the Premier League selling the TV rights on. That in itself provided United with untold riches, once they'd travelled the entire world opening merchandise shops selling replica shirts by the million to their "loyal fans". 99% of whom couldn't find Manchester on a sodding map, much less ever attend a match. It was even the real reason they opted to snub the FA cup that particular season. Not, as explained, to play that world club match supposedly insisted upon by UEFA/FIFA, but to explore and profit from the South American market. Martin Edwards was even overheard speaking about the opportunity for a MUFC megastore in Rio. It was done for marketing purposes, certainly not footballing ones. And, in my opinion, was to Uniteds everlasting shame. 

As for the Sky money not doing Liverpool much good, I agree. But, there was so much cash that the winners of the league, if they stayed at the top for a season or two as United did, could build a massive gap between themselves and the rest. Liverpool tried playing catch-up, but the sale of the club to the Gillette/Hicks consortium was flawed, and served only to set them back even further, thus leaving the field wide open for United to move even further and further away from them. 

Again, this all goes to illustrate how incredibly bitter and jealous many United fans have suddenly become. The "noisy neighbours" are here, and seemingly here to stay. Just sit back, enjoy what we're serving up, and remember.......Ole's at the wheel, and has everything under control😂

Oh, and twenty titles as opposed to six? That was then, this is now. Anything else is just history, or so you keep telling the scousers! 

Enough. Sorry, but I'm old, I'm tired and I'm too happy with what I saw at Wembley earlier today to be bothered debating the finer points of football finance and history any further, even though I'm enjoying it far more than an OVO argument! Time for bed! ️⚽😀👍

Edited by Joey

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Posted

The "noisy neighbours" are here, and seemingly here to stay

 

That's my exact point, you're only 'staying' as long as you've got the leg up.

For all your talk of a Edwards this, Murdoch that , they are self financing, City without the Sheik  are not  and never will be.

Goodnight!

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Posted

Forget the Sheik's wealth and the financial misdoings at City, there's something for more fishy going on at the Emptyhead!!!! 🤔

Regards.

Drew.

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Posted

read an interesting piece today, thats sort of related to our latest bit of discussion  

people would rather watch star players rather than competitive matches

 "In other words, more people would prefer to see a Manchester City – with their multiple superstars – facing a Watford than two teams with slightly less overall talent playing what should in theory be a closer game."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/20/football-tv-manchester-city-watford-fa-cup-final

as said an interesting view, food for thought....?

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Mike said:

read an interesting piece today, thats sort of related to our latest bit of discussion  

people would rather watch star players rather than competitive matches

 "In other words, more people would prefer to see a Manchester City – with their multiple superstars – facing a Watford than two teams with slightly less overall talent playing what should in theory be a closer game."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/20/football-tv-manchester-city-watford-fa-cup-final

as said an interesting view, food for thought....?

Mike. As you know I've watched United home and away since 1972. And as a fan I would rather them lose and play football than bore a team to death and win 1.0 . But with the silly amounts of money involved these days, it's unfortunately win at all costs regardless. 

Of coarse everyone hopes for big score wins but realistically that doesn't happen often  so close games with plenty of goals for both side's is definitely the preferred option.  

Steve 

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Posted

Wish I could say it’s not all about the money, but sadly , in today’s society we have created a monster that’s hard to turn round and stop.

Even the Avengers would have a hard time fighting against Murdock's Sky Empire of Storm Troopers .. 

Most of us of a certain age , tend to live on memories of what once was , and can never be. And the understanding of playing for the shirt and history of the club is lost to most foreign professionals now. No one now touches the “ This is Anfield “ sign on the way out of the tunnel. 

But let’s not loose perspective on this. Yes things have changed , yes players will come and go where the money takes them and the odd club will still produce some good home grown talent. 

But there has been some really memorable football games this season at all ends of the leagues. Charlton getting to the playoffs :) 

Football has changed and it will continue to change but it still gives me the full gamut of emotions , the highs and lows of a rollercoaster ride , one more to come .

Just hope we end on a high .  

But who knows “ Footballs a funny old game “ - Saint & Greavsie 

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Posted (edited)

Oh and just to poke fun at our own . I was sent this by someone . 

Watch the guys in the wheelchairs .

 

 

Edited by Stevegods
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Posted

Continue to be impressed with the Lionesses performance in the Women's World Cup.  Their temperament was truly tested against Cameroon yesterday but they kept calm and didn't get drawn in.  VAR is here to stay so no point complaining about decisions being overturned when the technology reveals all.  Similar technology has been used in other sports for years so it's a case of getting on with it.  Three goals and a clean sheet were well deserved.

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The Lionesses go from strength to strength.  Great result against Norway last night.

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38 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

The Lionesses go from strength to strength.  Great result against Norway last night.

Absolutely right Steve. And they are playing some great football , can’t wait for the semi final - France or USA . Bring it on.

 

Come on you ladies . 

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Posted

Finally something to celebrate, England winning the Cricket World Cup.  Well done guys.  It'll Never Be (Super) Over For Me.

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Posted

Fantastic end to CWC19 . Gotta feel for NZ to lose like that. Ben Stokes is some player. Hopefully lots of people denied access to Sky tuned in to channel 4 and were thrilled by the drama.

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Posted

What a game of cricket ... never seen anything like it .

From the 2+4 off Ben Stokes bat , to a super over finish that brings the teams tied .. on 15 runs off 6 balls .. and England win because of more boundaries .Rules are rules but at least we are on the winning side for once !

What a day of sport - cricket - tennis - F1 - and Liverpool 1-3 :) 

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Posted

More twists thank chubby checker... 

Oh how nice when lady luck shines your way.

A lesson for us all I guess, never give up and you might just come out on top.

Ed

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Posted
9 hours ago, Stevegods said:

What a game of cricket ... never seen anything like it .

From the 2+4 off Ben Stokes bat , to a super over finish that brings the teams tied .. on 15 runs off 6 balls .. and England win because of more boundaries .Rules are rules but at least we are on the winning side for once !

What a day of sport - cricket - tennis - F1 - and Liverpool 1-3 :)

What a finish the 2 + 4 as you say then the run out on the last ball of the super over.  Incredible drama.

 

i camt remember exact number but didnt we need 24 runs from last 2 overs ?  I though we had lost at that point.

 

what rule gave us the victory as scores on the day were tied after the super over ?

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Posted

Djokovic v federer was also a great game.

 

the crowd showed a real lack of class though the way the treated djokovic.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Dylan said:

 

what rule gave us the victory as scores on the day were tied after the super over ?

More boundaries in the game to answer my own question.  

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Posted

Superb  by England on a pitch and ground  that doesn't suit their style of play but feel for nz how unlucky  can you be. 

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wow.....dont to  pay have sports channels ........ so spent the day watching chan 4 cricket with la tour dip ins  when the ads were on....................brill climax , just our day today  , kane williamson  very well spoken afterwards ..........must have been gutted..........

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Shows what happens when sport is shown on free to air TV. Without the C4 cricket coverage we would be marvelling at the Djokovic v Federer match; called by some to have been one of the greatest tennis matches ever played. Lewis Hamilton also won a historic 6th British Grand Prix this weekend and is barely mentioned whilst how many people realise a Netball world cup has started!

Regarding the cricket; it was good to see that the wicket had been prepared to give the bowlers and batsmen assistance in equal measures. I know everyone enjoys the bish bosh of T20 with every other ball being hit to the boundary but good cricket is more than scoring 4's and 6's.   

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5 hours ago, Soulfusion said:

Shows what happens when sport is shown on free to air TV. Without the C4 cricket coverage we would be marvelling at the Djokovic v Federer match; called by some to have been one of the greatest tennis matches ever played. Lewis Hamilton also won a historic 6th British Grand Prix this weekend and is barely mentioned whilst how many people realise a Netball world cup has started!

Regarding the cricket; it was good to see that the wicket had been prepared to give the bowlers and batsmen assistance in equal measures. I know everyone enjoys the bish bosh of T20 with every other ball being hit to the boundary but good cricket is more than scoring 4's and 6's.   

It was a wicket that produced a great match,BUT what other country in the world would have produced a wicket that curtailed their strengths. Bizarre in the extreme and very English thing to do.

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Posted (edited)

Just seen this from silverstone

 

 

Looks like video is blocked it’s a 1.91 second world record pit stop by red bull

Edited by Dylan

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Posted

how will this work out?

what do you reckon?

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Posted
1 hour ago, Mike said:

how will this work out?

what do you reckon?

Devine right to be in the top 6 ,. could be down by xmas .,great fans who deserve much better than mike Ashley .super club but haven't won anything for 50 years and why someone like the brilliant owners we've got hasn't bought them is really bizarre. 

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Posted

They deserve better than Steve Bruce who is probably the most disloyal manager ever, even beating Harry Redknapp.

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Have to agree with the boys above .

Steve Bruce maybe a very nice guy , as a lot of people in football say , but his track record is poor to say the least . 

This all stems from Mr Sports Direct - and his priority in life which is to squeeze what he can out of the club while getting as much publicity as he can. I’m surprised he hasn’t tried to put all of the players on Zero hours contacts . 

I can only see this ending in tears for all loyal Newcastle fans , the players and Steve Bruce . 

 

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It will be interesting seeing how this pans out. Steve Bruce has managed a significant number of PL matches, although only Bryan Robson has a worse win ratio among managers who have managed a minimum of 200 games. Whilst he promotes himself as a boyhood fan whose father was also a Newcastle fan there were no concerns accepting the Sunderland job previously. Similarly he has also managed both Sheffield clubs, along with Villa and Birmingham, so he is a bit of a mercenary.

The perennial problem with Newcastle, like at most clubs, but perhaps polarised more at St. James Park is squaring the fans ambition with that of its owner. Clearly Mike Ashley does not want to 'invest' heavily in the club but neither does he want to sell having again dangled the carrot of a buyer that hasn't materialised. A popular manager has walked away to find employment in China and SB, whilst capable, is a downgrade but with local credentials so the fans will continue to buy the season ticket and the shirt. Whilst they continue to add to his considerable wealth Mike Ashley has no compunction to sell.

Fans of football clubs are probably the most loyal consumers but don't recognise that is all they are, consumers, to the club owners'. I worry that my club, Arsenal, are showing signs of becoming part of a similar cycle. More owners seem to view the reward of the PL as commercial profit not competitive success. 

Although his business practices make my blood boil; you have to give credit to Mike Ashley is that he is an English businessman supporting English business which seems a rarity in itself, especially in the PL. 

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1 hour ago, Soulfusion said:

It will be interesting seeing how this pans out. Steve Bruce has managed a significant number of PL matches, although only Bryan Robson has a worse win ratio among managers who have managed a minimum of 200 games. Whilst he promotes himself as a boyhood fan whose father was also a Newcastle fan there were no concerns accepting the Sunderland job previously. Similarly he has also managed both Sheffield clubs, along with Villa and Birmingham, so he is a bit of a mercenary.

The perennial problem with Newcastle, like at most clubs, but perhaps polarised more at St. James Park is squaring the fans ambition with that of its owner. Clearly Mike Ashley does not want to 'invest' heavily in the club but neither does he want to sell having again dangled the carrot of a buyer that hasn't materialised. A popular manager has walked away to find employment in China and SB, whilst capable, is a downgrade but with local credentials so the fans will continue to buy the season ticket and the shirt. Whilst they continue to add to his considerable wealth Mike Ashley has no compunction to sell.

Fans of football clubs are probably the most loyal consumers but don't recognise that is all they are, consumers, to the club owners'. I worry that my club, Arsenal, are showing signs of becoming part of a similar cycle. More owners seem to view the reward of the PL as commercial profit not competitive success. 

Although his business practices make my blood boil; you have to give credit to Mike Ashley is that he is an English businessman supporting English business which seems a rarity in itself, especially in the PL. 

Mike Ashley is a good business man and he is English which is rare for owners in the premier league but even as a proud English man myself he is as far removed from our beloved thai owners as it is possible to get. 

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Leicester Boy said:

Mike Ashley is a good business man and he is English which is rare for owners in the premier league but even as a proud English man myself he is as far removed from our beloved thai owners as it is possible to get. 

I am not so sure about him being a good businessman it could all come tumbling down around him as he continues to buy more and more high street chains.

 

i can’t see any logic in what he is doing.

 

having said that if it all did go sour he will have plenty stashed away so he won’t be affected.

Edited by Dylan

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29 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I am not so sure about him being a good businessman it could all come tumbling down around him as he continues to buy more and more high street chains.

 

i can’t see any logic in what he is doing.

 

having said that if it all did go sour he will have plenty stashed away so he won’t be affected.

Yes when i said good i meant it relatively, successful yes but disgusted by the way he treats his workforce and the football club. 

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Posted

So first day of The Open ... and back to a real true test of links golf at Portrush in Northern Island.

Wind - rain and tricky run offs will test the very best. 

What a reception for D.C. - Darren Clarke on the first tee and he obliges us all with a birdie and starts -3 after 5 . 

He’s obviously enjoying life , as he seems to be carrying a few more pounds around the girth. But also noticed that he’s one of the only sportsmen , never mind golfers , that I’ve seen openly smoking around the course . Just strange to see nowadays ... 

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As a Wednesdayite, I'm obviously more than a little disgruntled at how this has all panned out. 

 

I'm certainly not naive enough to think that there is much, if any, loyalty left in the game (except by the majority of supporters), whether that be from club owners, players or managers, but the way SB has acted certainly shows that he doesn't have any, especially after the sympathetic way the Chairman treated him when appointing him. By allowing SB time to spend 'resting and recuperating' in the West Indies watching test cricket, after admittedly having an 'annus horribilis' in 2018, before starting his role with Wednesday at the beginning of February 2019, you might have thought that this might be repaid through a bit of loyalty to the club, however nothing surprises me really.

 

Playing the 'Geordie' card and 'lifelong fan' card, after turning down the opportunity to manage them twice previously just doesn't wash with me.  I won't hold any grudges towards NUFC; I actually quite like many of their fans I've met over the years, and it's probably them I feel most sorry for with the way Ashley has run them over recent years.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards!! 

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