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Martin S

How Buyers & The Market Can Be Fooled

of course it makes sense what you say.... but on the other hand some nut job coulda just paid £123 for it... happens daily on the scene..

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Posted (edited)

Glad you highlighted this, seen it so many times on discogs, go to popsike and see what they sold for on Ebay over time, nothing these days is reliable at record buying, just do your homework as best you can, condition and gradeing that's another story.

Edited by Long tall Paul
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18 minutes ago, Long tall Paul said:

Glad you highlighted this

Thanks Paul and also Dave. I'm now of the belief the posting was worthwhile especially as no one has disputed it yet.

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People who own the £123.45 record and bought it for £1.23......back in the day...won't complain. 

% commission sites won't complain by prices inflated via dodgy dealers. More money for them.

Remember the youth who traded the family cow for magic beans, just got lucky!

All part of the game I guess, knowledge and a slight of hand is power and profit.

Ed

 

 

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1 hour ago, Martin S said:

Thanks Paul and also Dave. I'm now of the belief the posting was worthwhile especially as no one has disputed it yet.

every post is worth while as its just someones opinion martin.. but as i say theres a nutjob that throws money at a record most days..

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Spot on Martin. I can remember the furore in the days of paper lists. The same is happening on auctions from time to time. eBay auctions are littered with sales falling through due to retracted bids and shiv bidding. American dealers, usually chancers, put fake reserves on records they are paranoid about - then the crazy figure becomes the going rate.

Trick is to watch the market daily, buy from reliable dealers, avoid auctions involving clandestine bidding trends and be patient as most records come up for sale sooner or later. All sales databases have errors and omissions but are a useful starting point when buying unfamiliar records.

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Posted (edited)

But you can only take a sale at face value.  A transaction took place whether you care to believe it or not.  Two parties went through the whole process.  They may have been two associates setting up a scam but we don’t know that. Even if they were history will show a sale took place.

What was the record, who sold the previous items, from what country did these transactions take place, could be a factor as a Uk near mint is vg+ to most others. 

You can argue the toss all day but for all intents and purposes a transaction took place.  You ask Benji to provide proof, why should he, he could ask you to provide proof a sale didn’t take place.  history on discogs shows a sale did take place and that is what the next seller will look to.  What did the seller have to gain with this alleged fraudulent sale, have more copies come to the market at the inflated price and sold?

Pre internet, we all know dealers who were a bit liberal with the truth with regards to their stock. I ‘ve also agreed a purchase at the weekend only for that record to be sold on the monday, you shrug your shoulders and move on. 

Lastly buy from reliable sellers someone remarks, what is reliable.  Every seller I know has had stock they have trickled out at what one would suggest is an inflated price rather than sell them at a lower price because they have multiple copies, especially previously harder to come by or indemand records, is that not immoral?  

 

Edited by chalky
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Long tall Paul said:

Glad you highlighted this, seen it so many times on discogs, go to popsike and see what they sold for on Ebay over time, nothing these days is reliable at record buying, just do your homework as best you can, condition and gradeing that's another story.

There are anomalies on every selling platform, nothing worse than eBay/popsike. 

Edited by chalky
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Always been shenanigans and values are inherently subjective aren’t they. They also fluctuate wildly at times.

Assuming you had no idea:

A. Check LOTS of sources - online, ask collectors etc - until you feel you’ve a handle on rarity, current demand and a realistic, ballpark value

B. Decide what it’s worth to you, bearing in mind grading / condition

C. Pay what you can afford and live with

D. Let people who try to rip folk off or can’t grade records know that you know, leave appropriate feedback if there’s a mechanism and never deal with em again.

If people deviate from that and get stung they’ve made their bed really.

 

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The original post was aimed at an example I gave for sales for Gwen McCrae's "Keep The Fire Burning" on UK 45 - various members couldn't believe it was selling for £30+ and I merely uploaded the attached screengrab from Discogs showing that, on numerous occasions, it HAD sold for in the region of £30. At no point did I say the single is worth £123, or even bring the crazy price into question, it was obviously an anomaly - I was merely showing that sales of £30 weren't unusual.

Are there really dealers who buy their own stock at massively inflated prices, pay the fees on the bogus sale, and then sell the next copy for far under the bogus price, swallowing up the bogus fees into the new transaction? I have no idea... but previous historic sales figures are out there, so can't see why somebody would be suckered into paying over the odds. Unless they want to. What about Manship's "Tainted Love" auction which finished at £800+ this week? Should we assume that didn't happen unless it can be proved that the money actually changed hands? 

Screen Shot 2019-03-06 at 18.58.01.png

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Another thing to consider is whether all sales actually find their way to Discogs. For example, I bought a record from Discogs two weeks ago, The site still shows the last sale as having taken place eight months ago. Mine may appear in time, I suppose, but it's not there yet. 

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1 hour ago, johndelve said:

Another thing to consider is whether all sales actually find their way to Discogs. For example, I bought a record from Discogs two weeks ago, The site still shows the last sale as having taken place eight months ago. Mine may appear in time, I suppose, but it's not there yet. 

It takes a few weeks, once the sellers fees for that particular period have been paid 

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So .. just to ask a simpleton question as someone that doesn’t buy that many 45’s other than fairly cheap ones I like .. 

How does this fit in as I thought this was just a £15 pressing or am I wrong ? 

43A9102F-A268-4208-BFD1-1985BA7490BB.jpeg

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55 minutes ago, chalky said:

It takes a few weeks, once the sellers fees for that particular period have been paid 

Oh, ok, cheers

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even looking at the discogs listing ..gwen mcrae is £40 and not £30.. see its creepin up 🤣

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I'm not sure if 45rpm single vinyl discs are even sold today outside special editions of one kind or another, but they would surely retail around a tenner?

A 50 year old original single must surely then have trebled in price simply because of its ever decreasing numbers available.

Of course all logic goes out of the window when popularity takes hold.

I remember back in the day when seven day lover sold for a lottery win at one point.

Ed

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1 minute ago, tomangoes said:

I'm not sure if 45rpm single vinyl discs are even sold today outside special editions of one kind or another, but they would surely retail around a tenner?

A 50 year old original single must surely then have trebled in price simply because of its ever decreasing numbers available.

Of course all logic goes out of the window when popularity takes hold.

I remember back in the day when seven day lover sold for a lottery win at one point.

Ed

still a lottery win lol... even more so in fact.. i only won a tenner this week

 

 

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Only thing can add to this ,do homework and buy from trusted dealers have been stung a couple of times when chasing so called bargains

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, stevegods said:

So .. just to ask a simpleton question as someone that doesn’t buy that many 45’s other than fairly cheap ones I like .. 

How does this fit in as I thought this was just a £15 pressing or am I wrong ? 

43A9102F-A268-4208-BFD1-1985BA7490BB.jpeg

It's a boot £72.....Oh Dear, £72 would be cheap for the one below

Epitome.jpg

Edited by Blackpoolsoul
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22 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

It's a boot £72.....Oh Dear, £72 would be cheap for the one below

Epitome.jpg

Maybe tis a boot but to get one back in the day one would have been deep entrenched in the 'scene '.

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