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'Ton of Dynamite'..what is this?

Posted

Saw this tweet from Richard Searling earlier..what's this release with a UK-style solid centre?

 

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Posted (edited)

Can't use the link, but could be the US release without the middle being knocked ouy. It happened a lot with just about anything New York. (we always called then New York presses, but there may have been similar occurances in other places)

I know Richard had TOD in that format.

Edited by Mick Holdsworth

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Posted

Just got the link to work (link is fine, it was me). Yep, that's the one. I used to have an Eddie Regan H&S that was just un punched. Still got a few like it now.

 

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Posted

Saw him play it sometime in '75 when he came to the Nottm Palais, he referred to it as a 'New York press' then.

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Posted

Thanks guys. Interesting. Never heard of that before. Any idea why this was?

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Posted

The text on the label looks very slightly different to my eyes - exact same layout, but the small print just looks slightly thinner...

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Posted

These early Turbo, Stang, All Platinum 45s were pressed by a company in East Newark called Sun Plastics.

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Posted

So this begs the question of how some US records "were" pressed. Did they press them all like this and then had a machine to punch them out and if so.......why ? 

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Posted
On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 03:55, Blackpoolsoul said:

So this begs the question of how some US records "were" pressed. Did they press them all like this and then had a machine to punch them out and if so.......why ? 

Yes .....Dinking

http://www.pressingvinyl.co.uk/index.php/2014/06/dinked-7-records/

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Posted
On 25/06/2019 at 04:55, Blackpoolsoul said:

So this begs the question of how some US records "were" pressed. Did they press them all like this and then had a machine to punch them out and if so.......why ? 

Jukeboxes ?

Cheers Paul

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Posted
3 hours ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

That's cool, but I am still confused.... a little

I guess most pressing plants would simply make them "as" dinked as standard, but in the case of the record being discussed here they made them "all ?" with middles and then went to the trouble of dinking them or punters just did it when they purchased them ? (apart from Richard's copy)

Interesting stuff

I had a Philly 33 1/3 O'Jays US with a centre but never seen a turbo one until now

 

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Posted

 I don't know if this was the O'Jays single you had but... this was how some (Atlantic, Columbia etc.) U.S. companies released

extended versions before the 12" format was used.

 

O'jays.jpg

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, The Yank said:

 I don't know if this was the O'Jays single you had but... this was how some (Atlantic, Columbia etc.) U.S. companies released

extended versions before the 12" format was used.

 

O'jays.jpg

That's the one :) Jonathan Woodliffe was after a 12" Demo and I have mentioned before in a previous thread somewhere that we don't think it exists

Edited by Blackpoolsoul

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Posted
On 25/06/2019 at 03:55, Blackpoolsoul said:

So this begs the question of how some US records "were" pressed. Did they press them all like this and then had a machine to punch them out and if so.......why ? 

Good question. Looking at a few YouTube clips, it’s hard to tell but it looks like the vinyl blanks start off with a small spindle hole, have a LP type label applied when the record is hot, then the large centre hole is dinked before the 45 slides off the press onto a stack. Assuming it’s possible to remove a record for quality control pre-dinking, this would explain the format of Richard’s 45.

Are there any record pressing plants open to tours that would give further insight into the manufacturing process?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

That's the one :) Jonathan Woodliffe was after a 12" Demo and I have mentioned before in a previous thread somewhere that we don't think it exists

      It does exist on 12" but this is the Tom Moulton remix from the 1977 album "Philly Classics". The 12" came out 2 years later in 1979 -

        Back to Frankie Crocker .

 

 

 

o'jays.jpg

Edited by The Yank

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, The Yank said:

      It does exist on 12" but this is the Tom Moulton remix from the 1977 album "Philly Classics". The 12" came out 2 years later in 1979 -

        Back to Frankie Crocker .

 

 

 

o'jays.jpg

Thanks, we knew about this one, and I agree back to purpose of thread "Dinking" :)

Interesting that the image here has a larger dinked centre, than the non-dinked image of Richard's

Ton.jpg

Edited by Blackpoolsoul

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Posted (edited)

If you mean it's larger than a normal sized US middle, then it's just an illusion.

The record above is scanned inside a white sleeve, hiding the outer edge of the label, making it seem small, giving the impression of a larger middle than normal.

Edited by Mick Holdsworth

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

If you mean it's larger than a normal sized US middle, then it's just an illusion.

The record above is scanned inside a white sleeve, hiding the outer edge of the label, making it seem small, giving the impression of a larger middle than normal.

Sorry Mick I didn't explain very well. The "dinked" centre is right up to the "Turbo" logo as opposed to Richard's copy, that, if it was pushed out would not be as big a "dink"

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Posted
52 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Sorry Mick I didn't explain very well. The "dinked" centre is right up to the "Turbo" logo as opposed to Richard's copy, that, if it was pushed out would not be as big a "dink"

Ahh, see what you mean now.

OK well the label is a different print layout and the vinyl looks different too, so it may be a different press. Having said that, I can't remember seeing a normal dinked copy like this, but to be fair, I've never really looked.

In most cases of undinked variations of dinked records , the only difference is the middle. The records / labels / presses are identical.

However, In this case, I dont know if a large middle variation of RS copy exists. It may do, just never seen one myself. If it doesn't then it would make this variation stand out more than the other undinked variations.

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Posted

I don't think the type is different on the RS copy.

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Posted

There was a few of these around at one time,  i don`t know wether it was one of those record bar stories but i seem to remember someone saying they were mexican? Definately was a few around at one time though. :)

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Posted
4 hours ago, garethx said:

I don't think the type is different on the RS copy.

Looking more closely, I see there are three different print variations. I agree the typeface and layout is the identical througout.

It's all to do with the secondary overprint, with the black text block being positioned at different heights for each press. The undinked copy lines up exactly with the highest placed text.

Also noticed the lower placed text variations have a different colour background, changing from a stong red / crimson, to a more orange.

Heres some pics . . .

This is the copy with the Highest placed text. (This is the variation that lines up with RS's small middle copy) . . .

468162087_TonOfDynamite(HighestPrint).jpg.2c27980456edbdba103676ea8436a1d8.jpg

 

This is a lower placed test, changing to an almost orange background . . .

1250030778_TonOfDynamite(LowPrint).thumb.jpg.88857973354880128c027bbe78dda33e.jpg

 

And this is the copy with an even lower text block . . .

1193223383_TonOfDynamite(LowestPrint)2.thumb.jpg.f57812cadd39cb3ed4790621458fe614.jpg

 

Cheers
Mick

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Posted

There are lots of examples of this variation with indie logo's in the eighties. However, why this trait exists is open to debate, I have a few idears, but nothing factual to back it up.A few examples to hand being Dynamic Uppsetters on Mega, Quietfire on Simplex, Harden Bros on H.B, Heaven Sent & Extacy on Jamieco's, Jerome Jones on Jam for life, Strictly Buisness on S.B,. These were all pressed both solid centre and standard U.S . There does appear to be less examples in the 70's. That's the first time i've seen the Frankie Crocker one.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 29/06/2019 at 19:42, HARRY CROSBY said:

There was a few of these around at one time,  i don`t know wether it was one of those record bar stories but i seem to remember someone saying they were mexican? Definately was a few around at one time though. :)

I've got a Mexican 7"! The Independents, 'I love you, yes I do' on Mexican Scepter.Large centre hole, which is a bit inconclusive to say the least but suggests that was the format in Mexico at the time. Also, would companies like All Platinum / Turbo be doing separate batches and shipping them all the way down to Mexico?

I'd speculate this is more likely to be possibly something to do with radio station dj preferences. Easier to cue up / programme alongside LPs, maybe? Also, for club djs around NY? I've heard that DJs on the early 70s proto-disco scene in New York preferred releases on UK pressings. There's also things like this that were put out just for that market in New York this way:

https://www.discogs.com/Schatz-Sunny-Gale-Soon-Everything-Is-Gonna-Be-Alright-I-Wanna-Know/release/1548067

 

 

Edited by JoeSoap
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Posted
On 29/06/2019 at 20:56, Mick Holdsworth said:

Looking more closely, I see there are three different print variations. I agree the typeface and layout is the identical througout.

It's all to do with the secondary overprint, with the black text block being positioned at different heights for each press. The undinked copy lines up exactly with the highest placed text.

Also noticed the lower placed text variations have a different colour background, changing from a stong red / crimson, to a more orange.

 

These are not different pressings. It's a case of the coloured background print labels not being properly aligned when the black print was applied - this "effect" can be seen on lots of labels. The seemingly red vs. orange label variations is also down to the first image having been scanned with "unsharp masking" setting on (which hightens contrast and causes text to get a white outline), and the other two pictures being photos taken with lighting that probably just enhanced the orange colour tones. Red/orange/pink colour variations are hard colours to properly capture.

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The black type is overprinted on existing two-colour Turbo 'blanks'. The position of the black text can of course change relative to the existing label graphics as Sebastian says. Here's an image of some Motown and related blank sheets: 

TamlaMotownGordy.jpg

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Posted

Hope this helps to illustrate how labels were produced on finished records.

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I've come across a few random USA singles with a solid centre (not those from other countries). But I just assumed they missed the dinking press for whatever reason.

Maybe for quality control inspection purposes,  I never really found out for sure.

They don't have any promo markings as you might expect if they were intended for DJs,  radio or clubs.

But it's an interesting subject for the anorak types among us!

20170307_082942.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Benson said:

I've come across a few random USA singles with a solid centre (not those from other countries). But I just assumed they missed the dinking press for whatever reason.

Maybe for quality control inspection purposes,  I never really found out for sure.

They don't have any promo markings as you might expect if they were intended for DJs,  radio or clubs.

But it's an interesting subject for the anorak types among us!

20170307_082942.jpg

Anorak's we may be, but unless it's discussed it we may never know :) and I love this thread

I see a New York connection in these posts, that's for sure, don't you

Edited by Blackpoolsoul
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Posted
1 hour ago, John Benson said:

I've come across a few random USA singles with a solid centre (not those from other countries). But I just assumed they missed the dinking press for whatever reason.

Maybe for quality control inspection purposes,  I never really found out for sure.

They don't have any promo markings as you might expect if they were intended for DJs,  radio or clubs.

But it's an interesting subject for the anorak types among us!

20170307_082942.jpg

hood up JB..........!!!!

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Posted
On 27/07/2019 at 12:48, 25miles said:

hood up JB..........!!!!

And a Philly one

 

Indelgents.jpg

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