Mike Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 View full article 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Agent45 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Any ideas for watching this outside of the UK? "BBC iPlayer only works in the UK. Sorry, it’s due to rights issues." 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Agent45 said: Any ideas for watching this outside of the UK? "BBC iPlayer only works in the UK. Sorry, it’s due to rights issues." And about time me thinks. I just hope a lot of people will be losing a bit of sleep afterwards, at least for a while, as I fear that as with most of these things......nothing will actually happen in the long run...I do wonder if some of the dealers will be leaving certain boxes at home when they attend Soul Bars at events Edited November 27, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Shufflin Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 looking forward to this one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Okehsoul1952 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Mike said: News/Article/Feature Highlight: Just been passed on some mainstream media news from long time member Kevin Johansen @wiggyflat that tomorrows BBC Fake Britain show features a segment that take a look at 'the vinyl copies that are fleecing record collectors out of thousands'. View full article 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Just watched it and it started with the Pink Floyd bootleg However the guy who was being interviewed said that he expected the track list to be on the back of the cover ???? https://www.discogs.com/Pink-Floyd-Wish-You-Were-Here-炎-あなたがここにいてほしい/release/13846677 As fare as I was aware tracks were on the Inner sleeve and of course his was plain white anyway £45 ? Oh Dear and he quoted "there was nothing I could do", did he use Paypal ? Also his copy of Dark Side Of The Moon he played was a re-press !!! As for the bootlegs Northern Soul and the "worthless" comments, there are some bootleg collectors who don't mind , do they ? (not me I hate them) The Authorities need to threaten Ebay and Amazon with fines and then that will stop it....surely The bootlegs are always being sold as Re-issues (a simple way of getting round it) The Cobblestone in Orange ??? please, please at least it is the wrong colour, never mind missing the B side When I was a young man, I bought one of Simon Soussan's Jimmy's Marks out of 10 for info 5/10 accuracy 5/10 Edited November 28, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post John Moffatt Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 Major point there that wasn't mentioned on fake Britain - the bootleg industry is being maintained by DJs who don't care. They are cheap means to achieve an arguably false status, and they play to an audience who don't care either. Many boots and recent represses are clearly described as such. It doesn't reduce their sales any. That, of course, is different from those who deliberately mis-sell. That is fraud. 5 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Posted November 28, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 You can view a clip - the vinyl bootlegging section here on our soul source yt thing 7 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Blackpoolsoul Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, John Moffatt said: Major point there that wasn't mentioned on fake Britain - the bootleg industry is being maintained by DJs who don't care. They are cheap means to achieve an arguably false status, and they play to an audience who don't care either. Many boots and recent represses are clearly described as such. It doesn't reduce their sales any. That, of course, is different from those who deliberately mis-sell. That is fraud. Sadly no one can name them "For legal Reasons" and they will just Carry on 4 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Rick Scott Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, John Moffatt said: Major point there that wasn't mentioned on fake Britain - the bootleg industry is being maintained by DJs who don't care. They are cheap means to achieve an arguably false status, and they play to an audience who don't care either. Many boots and recent represses are clearly described as such. It doesn't reduce their sales any. That, of course, is different from those who deliberately mis-sell. That is fraud. Add to that when you have Promoters who also DJ and collect them selves allow DJs ( i use that term losely) To play mostly Bootlegs in their sets, i pulled one up on this and his response was he didn't care less as long as the punters got to hear what they wanted as he was only interested on Filling the Dance Floor. 4 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wiggyflat Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Rick Scott spot on.....I was promoting nights in Southend with James Hill under Northern Noise banner.We were booking djs with real records but he has gone off on his own and booked dj mates playing bootlegs using Northern Noise ....it is funny I have appeared on tv about bootlegging and he is running bootleg dj promotions!. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Soul16 Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 Boy, do I miss the 1980s and 1990s when the playing of originals at soul nights was assumed and the acronym OVO wasn't even a consideration for printing on your event flyer. 5 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Citizen P Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 53 minutes ago, Rick Scott said: Add to that when you have Promoters who also DJ and collect them selves allow DJs ( i use that term losely) To play mostly Bootlegs in their sets, i pulled one up on this and his response was he didn't care less as long as the punters got to hear what they wanted as he was only interested on Filling the Dance Floor. For the dance floor, substitute his pockets-works either way 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post John Moffatt Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, Rick Scott said: Add to that when you have Promoters who also DJ and collect them selves allow DJs ( i use that term losely) To play mostly Bootlegs in their sets, i pulled one up on this and his response was he didn't care less as long as the punters got to hear what they wanted as he was only interested on Filling the Dance Floor. 'Only interested in filling the dancefloor' - another feature that is damaging the scene whereby you hear the same old records at every event you go to. There was once a time when DJs did the DJing, not dictat from the dancers. So these guys not only pay nothing for their adulation, they play what they are told to play. So why not just install a jukebox and not bother with any knowledge, experience and dedication? 14 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Johndelve Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Whole programme very depressing, the amount of scumbags out there....hardly news, I know. Also, must be first time ever a Paul Kelly record - even if fake - has been seen on the BBC.... 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Johndelve said: Also, must be first time ever a Paul Kelly record - even if fake - has been seen on the BBC.... And probably the last! 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Chalky Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, John Moffatt said: Major point there that wasn't mentioned on fake Britain - the bootleg industry is being maintained by DJs who don't care. They are cheap means to achieve an arguably false status, and they play to an audience who don't care either. Many boots and recent represses are clearly described as such. It doesn't reduce their sales any. That, of course, is different from those who deliberately mis-sell. That is fraud. I have asked several times who these djs are, think I got two names for a venue in west midlands. I have even asked for their names via PM if people do not wish to say anything and I will give their names out publicly, again nothing. Until they are named and shamed we will never get anywhere and the market will always flourish its not just Djs supporting these bootleggers, plenty of collectors too. Ebay is rife with them, takes forever to sort the crap from the real stuff. 7 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Chalky Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 And there is absolutely no need to book a fake Dj for any promotion. More than enough who have real records and more than enough who will do it for nowt 8 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Chalky said: I have asked several times who these djs are, think I got two names for a venue in west midlands. I have even asked for their names via PM if people do not wish to say anything and I will give their names out publicly, again nothing. Until they are named and shamed we will never get anywhere and the market will always flourish its not just Djs supporting these bootleggers, plenty of collectors too. Ebay is rife with them, takes forever to sort the crap from the real stuff. It is so strange that Simon Soussan is the only name mentioned and he was bootlegging when......30+ years ago, perhaps these people will be named in 30 years when we have all gone to bed Edited November 28, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robnewbury Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Given the technology available nowadays how long before it won't be possible to tell the difference between original and fake?If they can copy the Mona Lisa they can copy the rarest and presumably most expensive of original vinyl surely? Might even been done already.Sad state of affairs. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said: It is so strange that Simon Soussan is the only name mentioned and he was bootlegging when......30+ years ago, perhaps these people will be named in 30 years when we have all gone to bed Alan , where do you get that view from? the article broadcast today alone mentioned two people who were convicted last year of bootlegging you do seem to get things wrong quite often on this subject the site search may be a useful tool for you if wish to research past details of bootlegging Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Frankie Crocker Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Only fake DJ’s play fake records in public. Quality events run by reputable promoters and fronted by top DJ’s or serious collectors steer well clear of bootlegs. There are two big problems. Firstly, artists are cheated of their royalty payments. Secondly, record buyers are conned into parting with funds for goods not described accurately. eBay contribute to the problems by allowing fake goods to be sold on their platform - until they clean up their act, the trade in fake goods will continue. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike said: Alan , where do you get that view from? the article broadcast today alone mentioned two people who were convicted last year of bootlegging you do seem to get things wrong quite often on this subject the site search may be a useful tool for you if wish to research past details of bootlegging Sorry Mike You are correct there were 2 people convicted, I guess I was referring to the ones that have not been and are out there Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, ROBNEWBURY said: Given the technology available nowadays how long before it won't be possible to tell the difference between original and fake?If they can copy the Mona Lisa they can copy the rarest and presumably most expensive of original vinyl surely? Might even been done already.Sad state of affairs. I'm sure Ian Levine is working on it, even as we speak. One or two of his 'nearlys' caught some people out a couple of years back ... Magnetics (Ra-Sel), Greater Experience, Sam Williams etc. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 He's quite the vandal isn't he ... as bad as four of them, in fact 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, ROBNEWBURY said: Given the technology available nowadays how long before it won't be possible to tell the difference between original and fake?If they can copy the Mona Lisa they can copy the rarest and presumably most expensive of original vinyl surely? Might even been done already.Sad state of affairs. Technology will not make up for the products once used that can no longer be obtained. Paper is hugely different, as are paints/inks and the plastic. It will get harder but they will be caught out. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Richer said: I'm sure Ian Levine is working on it, even as we speak. One or two of his 'nearlys' caught some people out a couple of years back ... Magnetics (Ra-Sel), Greater Experience, Sam Williams etc. They only got caught out because they hadn't seen them in the flesh, they were sussed as soon as seen. Edited November 28, 2019 by Chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chalky said: They only got caught out because they had seen them in the flesh, they were sussed as soon as seen. Chalky, following on from Mikes comments and correcting me above is there a source (Government) of who has actually been prosecuted (other than the 2 mentioned on the programme and in the papers) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Chalky said: They only got caught out because they had seen them in the flesh, they were sussed as soon as seen. I think you mean because they hadn't seen them in the flesh. And yes, of course that's true, that's why they were only 'nearlys'. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Peter Richer said: I think you mean because they hadn't seen them in the flesh. And yes, of course that's true, that's why they were only 'nearlys'. yes of course typo But side by side most weren't even nearly 19 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said: Chalky, following on from Mikes comments and correcting me above is there a source (Government) of who has actually been prosecuted (other than the 2 mentioned on the programme and in the papers) dunno, there was 4 prosecuted other year and sentenced, there is a topic on here somewhere Edited November 28, 2019 by Chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Chalky said: yes of course typo But side by side most weren't even nearly It doesn't matter. The point is (and was) that IL is probably working on it; and he has a history of doing so. Quote Edited November 28, 2019 by Peter Richer Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robnewbury Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Chalky said: Technology will not make up for the products once used that can no longer be obtained. Paper is hugely different, as are paints/inks and the plastic. It will get harder but they will be caught out. Hope you're right mate but if Old Masters can be copied to such a degree that some experts can be fooled then surely 60s or 70s vinyl records can and it's not as if experts are buying them just unsuspecting soul lovers Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Rick Scott Posted November 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Let's not forget also that the biggest losers here are also the Artists themselves who have never made a Penny out of these peoples activities, They had a Dream to have a hit record and a good living for themselves or their Families, The cost of Studio Time for a single artist who would need to use a House band to play the backing Track and maybe some backing singers, and the pressing up of as many records as He or She could afford at the end of it all, some times the records would be hand printed on machines you pressed individually by hand to keep costs down, Not so bad for those who were a band where Members could Pool their Money together, but most Singers were on their own. We are all aware of the records that we revere and the Artists that we Love and Idolise to this Day but most of those are gone, no longer with us, without knowing about the Soul Scene in the UK who Started playing THEIR MUSIC that they had invested their Time and hard earned cash into, all those Classic Record and Artist we Still Love Today, It's such a Shame you Know that PARASITES were the ones Making VAST AMOUNTS OF MONEY off the back of these People without a Thought or Care in the World, Greedy Bastards! And that is just the music that came out of the USA. Edited November 29, 2019 by Rick Scott spelling mistake and added text 4 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 If you have information on piracy these are the contact details from their website Report Music Piracy BPI (British Recorded Music Industry) Riverside Building County Hall Westminster Bridge Road London SE1 7JA Paola Monaldi, Content Protection Operations Manager If you would like to report an incidence of copyright infringement please email: contentprotection@bpi.co.uk Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Rick Scott Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Only 40+ years down the line and Authorities only recently beginning to take notice, Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that it is affecting well known Pop Stars now would it? or is it that not many other records fetch the sort of money Northern Soul Records now sell for and it is not like they wern't aware of it surely ? Edited November 29, 2019 by Rick Scott spelling correction Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rick Scott said: Only 40+ years down the line and Authorities only recently beginning to take notice, Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that it is affecting well known Pop Stars now would it? or is it the not many other records fetch the sort of money Northern Soul Records now sell for and it is not like they wern't aware of it surely ? Not sure Rick, but it may be about money and resources as everything is nowadays, I just hope that they do threaten the online marketplaces with hefty fines, after all these sites don't allow designer fakes such as clothes handbags and shoes, so why not bootleg records I know that Discogs is heavily attempting to block them from sale (they haven't got it covered yet completely) 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Smartzie Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Money. The root. Where will it all end? Talking of money, 1973 l was articled on £4 a week (inc. Saturday mornings) and still managed to buy my first, sweet smelling , import from Malcs in Chorley for 65p. That's the tune. Little adv sticker. Just an insight which prob rings true with others still here on planet soul. Ktf 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I have found what appears to be a superb website in Telford and it handles fakes and counterfeits https://www.ukantipiracy.co.uk/contact.html 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said: I have found what appears to be a superb website in Telford and it handles fakes and counterfeits https://www.ukantipiracy.co.uk/contact.html imo if reporting piracy you be better off sticking to official websites such as the one you mentioned earlier... 3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said: If you have information on piracy these are the contact details from their website Report Music Piracy BPI (British Recorded Music Industry) Riverside Building County Hall Westminster Bridge Road London SE1 7JA Paola Monaldi, Content Protection Operations Manager If you would like to report an incidence of copyright infringement please email: contentprotection@bpi.co.uk 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Shinehead Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I might be missing the point here but the bootlegs/counterfeits in question have not been made to deceive anybody, a thousand pound record for a tenner ! they are just made to make a quick buck off the returnees or newly converted to the scene. The main gripe that seems to come through is that people are then having the audacity to go out and them play the boots at northern soul nights. Bootlegs have always been a part of this scene but because of Ebay and the likes it is more prevalent. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Shufflin Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, Shinehead said: I might be missing the point here I think the point of the programme is that some people are selling knock offs as originals for inflated sums Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Since moving 'south of the river' a few years ago, I have noticed that a lot of people do not seem to know or really care about whether something is on original vinyl or a boot. We even had a bootlegger selling stuff from his mums bungalow in West Sussex, which several people reported. For most these days, it seems all it is about is having the tune at an affordable price, rather than any quest for authenticity / legacy. A bit like the 70s really. And that in a nutshell creates the demand for the pirates to do more and more. I am sure it is probably the same everywhere. Edited November 29, 2019 by Steve G 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Shufflin Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve G said: a lot of people do not seem to know or really care about whether something is on original vinyl or a boot if they are paying the price for an original they should care or are utter mugs Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Shufflin said: if they are paying the price for an original they should care or are utter mugs The point is they are not. They go to gigs, hear tunes they like and pick them up for £10-20. Ignorance is bliss in this case. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Shinehead Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve G said: The point is they are not. They go to gigs, hear tunes they like and pick them up for £10-20. Ignorance is bliss in this case. That was the point I was trying to make in my post earlier , anybody buying these boots thinking they are getting an original must be stupid. They are buying them to play at home and know what they are getting like most of people buying boots in the seventies. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Johndelve Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 "I know that Discogs is heavily attempting to block them from sale (they haven't got it covered yet completely" They are not even close to having it covered.. look at this, bootlegs the lot of them: https://www.discogs.com/label/692572-Soul-From-The-Vaults Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Johndelve Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 And, for that matter, this lot too: https://www.discogs.com/label/692259-Soul-From-The-Vault Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Modernsoulsucks Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 20 hours ago, Shufflin said: I think the point of the programme is that some people are selling knock offs as originals for inflated sums If that was the point of the programme then as usual when it comes to NS it was mostly wrong. There was the Levine thing where counterfeits do seem to have been passed off as originals but apart from that, as Steve G states, people know what they're getting. No one is buying the FW 45 shown thinking it's the original. They might think it's legit which is a different thing altogether. Guys selling photocopied labels on UK eBay usually state that in the ad. Yes they often fetch daft prices but not original prices. I don't think there is a large gullible market out there. Just people who don't want to spend large amounts of money on buying records they like. 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Blackpoolsoul Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Johndelve said: And, for that matter, this lot too: https://www.discogs.com/label/692259-Soul-From-The-Vault Have you contacted them or are you not a member ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Modernsoulsucks said: If that was the point of the programme then as usual when it comes to NS it was mostly wrong. There was the Levine thing where counterfeits do seem to have been passed off as originals but apart from that, as Steve G states, people know what they're getting. No one is buying the FW 45 shown thinking it's the original. They might think it's legit which is a different thing altogether. Guys selling photocopied labels on UK eBay usually state that in the ad. Yes they often fetch daft prices but not original prices. I don't think there is a large gullible market out there. Just people who don't want to spend large amounts of money on buying records they like. I agree Rod. From what I see, they just don't care, as long as they can DJ or play it at home. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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