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There is some interesting info on Myto Music on this site, I have a query on the Groovesville connection.

If Don Davis brought various Groovesville music to Golden World/Wingate why were why were the following records released on Groovesville assigned to Myto Music.

JJ Barnes Our Love is in the Pocket

Melvin Davis I must Love You

Steve Mancha I Don't Want to Loose you

Why would they not be released on Golden World or Ric Tic? Assuming Gordy purchased the rights to Myto music, Jobete would be the owner of these releases or where there any exceptions when Myto Music was sold from Wingate to Gordy?

Appreciate if anyone can help clear my confusion.

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JJ’s version isn’t the first and recored before Motown (Darrall Banks the original I think but stand to be corrected) acquired Myto presumably so publishing would stay with the original company The sa

Good point.  It's NOT strange, after all.  Apparently I made an incorrect assumption about the dating of the 2 Motown purchases related to that of the Wingate-Griffin co-productions and Wingate's use

There is some interesting info on Myto Music on this site, I have a query on the Groovesville connection. If Don Davis brought various Groovesville music to Golden World/Wingate why were why were

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Posted (edited)

JJ’s version isn’t the first and recored before Motown (Darrall Banks the original I think but stand to be corrected) acquired Myto presumably so publishing would stay with the original company The same for the other two I guess without looking up the dates, Melvin is 1966 same year as Motown bought Wingate (Sept 1966). 

Edited by Chalky
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The Melvin Davis was getting Detroit airplay in September, 1966 and the  Steve Mancha charted in

Billboard in July, 1966.

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35 minutes ago, The Yank said:

The Melvin Davis was getting Detroit airplay in September, 1966 and the  Steve Mancha charted in

Billboard in July, 1966.

So all three definitely recorded before Motown took ownership of Myto and Wingate’s labels. 

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Posted (edited)
On 31/07/2020 at 10:31, Chalky said:

So all three definitely recorded before Motown took ownership of Myto and Wingate’s labels. 

All 3 issues were recorded, pressed up, and had been sold from commercial outlets before the changeover.  Ric-Tic's "I Love You Madly", by The Fantastic Four, was selling well in the middle of its run, when the Motown 2nd Wingate (Ric-Tic) buyout/purchase and transfer was being completed.  As soon as the takeover was completed, Motown pressed up the charted record's next press run on its own Soul label, as Ric-Tic had been shut down.  Credits for its publishing had been changed to Jobete Music (from Myto), as the rights to that song's publishing were part of the existing Myto Music catalogue purchase.  So, all those Myto Music songs existing at the time of Motown's buyout, immediately became published by Motown's Jobete Music.  However, Ed Wingate and JoAnne Bratton were not out of the music business.  They had some productions after that, including projects done together with Herman Griffin (Diane Lewis on Wand Records, The Players on Columbia), both of which listed their Myto Music (which hadn't been purchased by Motown in the buyout, - only the songs existing at that time).  In 1971, The Wingates released a Golden World record "Stompin' Crazy Legs" by The Modern Times, which was also published by a Wingate publisher, Ric-Tic Music.

Edited by Robbk
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38 minutes ago, Robbk said:

  Credits for its publishing had been changed to Jobete Music (from Myto), as the rights to that song's publishing were part of the existing Myto Music catalogue purchase.  

Strangely enough, the original credits for "I Love You Madly" were Ric- Tic publishers- 

 

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11 hours ago, The Yank said:

Strangely enough, the original credits for "I Love You Madly" were Ric- Tic publishers- 

 

Fant.jpg

Good point.  It's NOT strange, after all.  Apparently I made an incorrect assumption about the dating of the 2 Motown purchases related to that of the Wingate-Griffin co-productions and Wingate's use of "Myto Music" and "Ric-Tic Music".  Now it is clear that "Myto Music" was indeed dissolved, upon the first, 1966 Motown buyout, because the Wingate-Griffin co-productions took place in early 1966, BEFORE Motown's later 1966 buyout of Golden World Records, Golden World Sound Studio, and the Myto Music catalogue.  At that time, Ed Wingate and JoAnne Bratton continued operating Ric-Tic Records, starting with Ric-Tic 141, operating out of their house, and using United Sound Studios. With Myto Music gone, they revived an already existing (but dormant since 1963) music publishing company (Ric-Tic Music) they had used in 1962-63 during their early years of operating Golden World and Ric-Tic Records, when they recorded in New York, and used New York songwriters.  When they stopped operation of Ric-Tic Records in 1968, and sold off the contracts with a few more artists, and sold off the Ric-Tic Music catalogue  (up to that point) and related master tapes, they DID NOT sell the name "Ric Tic Music", so they could use it again, because its former product now was instantly transferred to the Jobete Music Catalogue.  So, that must be why Ed and JoAnne could again use Ric-Tic Music to publish their 1971 Golden World record.

Edited by Robbk
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Posted
On 31/07/2020 at 00:55, Paulmc said:

There is some interesting info on Myto Music on this site, I have a query on the Groovesville connection.

If Don Davis brought various Groovesville music to Golden World/Wingate why were why were the following records released on Groovesville assigned to Myto Music.

JJ Barnes Our Love is in the Pocket

Melvin Davis I must Love You

Steve Mancha I Don't Want to Loose you

Why would they not be released on Golden World or Ric Tic? Assuming Gordy purchased the rights to Myto music, Jobete would be the owner of these releases or where there any exceptions when Myto Music was sold from Wingate to Gordy?

Appreciate if anyone can help clear my confusion.

Don Davis started working for Ed Wingate's Golden World/Ric-Tic Records in 1965, before he started his patnership with LeBaron Taylor in Solid Hitbound Productions.  He had started his own Groovesville Records in 1963.  When he started working for Wingate, he had Wingate's Golden World distribute his Groovesville records.  In that deal, Wingate's Myto Music got to split the publishing of Groovesville's songs distributed by Golden World, at half and half, between Davis' Groovesville, and Wingate's and Joanne Bratton's Myto Music.  The Wingate-distributed Groovesville Records were red and white.  When they changed to turquoise blue, that signified that that was after Davis left Golden World, and had set up his partnership with LeBaron Taylor in Solid Hitbound Records, along with Revilot Records, and Solid Hitbound started their own distribution company, which also now distributed Davis' Groovesville Records.  So, the publishing on all Don Davis' productions now reverted back to 100% Groovesville Music.  So, they had been "Myto Music songs" only during the period Golden World distributed the Groovesville records.

I wasn't aware that "Our Love Is In The Pocket" was ever published by Myto Music.  If it was, it was probably only for a short overlap period, when Davis and Taylor had already started Revilot Records, and while they still had Wingate's Golden World distributing their Groovesville records. and the earliest of the Revilot and Solid Hit releases were then also distributed by Wingate, before Solid Hitbound started operating their own distribution company.  Then Myto would still have been splitting the publishing rights with Groovesville Music, and would split with JanSurMar, Thermo, Eddobar, and any publisher Solid Hitbound was using, for those first few releases.  Davis and Taylor started operating on productions while Davis was working with Wingate, before they started the 2 new record labels, and they also leased some of their productions to major labels.  They also operated their new labels a short time before starting their own distribution company, which not only distributed Revilot, Solid Hit and Groovesville, but also Clay McMurray's Red Cap, LaSalle. Brute, and several others (some of which had previously been distribute by Wingate).

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1 hour ago, Robbk said:

 The Wingate-distributed Groovesville Records were red and white.  When they changed to turquoise blue, that signified that that was after Davis left Golden World, and had set up his partnership with LeBaron Taylor in Solid Hitbound Records, along with Revilot Records, and Solid Hitbound started their own distribution company, which also now distributed Davis' Groovesville Records.  So, the publishing on all Don Davis' productions now reverted back to 100% Groovesville Music.  So, they had been "Myto Music songs" only during the period Golden World distributed the Groovesville records.

 

How would you explain this 1968 release? Shouldn't it have been Groovesville Music ?

 

J2.jpg

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I guess that "Our Love...." was written by George Clinton's crew for J.J. Barnes, in that twilight period when Solid Hitbound had just started Revilot Records, but not yet started their distributing; and J.J. Barnes was still under contract with Wingate's Ric-Tic Records, and he recorded it before moving over to Solid Hitbound's labels (Revilot/Groovesville).  However, as a Solid Hitbound Production, one would think that the publishing would have been split in half by Myto and Revilot Music.  But, there is no way of knowing what the details were.  music publishing rights were just one of several different ways to share profits or get money to various project members for their contributions (financial, creative or production tasks) to getting the record made.  For some reason, Davis and Taylor agreed with Ed and JoAnne that Myto would get ALL the music publishing rights for this song on this pressing regardless of the fact that Golden World was no longer distributing Davis' and Taylor's releases.  Maybe they still owed Wingate money for other services previously rendered?

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Posted

Thanks to everyone that contributed, once again I'm humbled by your knowledge ...... if only, Don Davis had written that autobiography of Ed Wingate... if only.

The Golden World building was registered in Ed's bothers name James Wingate ... what other deals went on...we can only imagine. The strange world of Northern Soul...The strange world of Ed Wingate.

 

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