Alternate 45 cut Isley Bros This old Heart of mine ?

[Soulboyrecords]

not a question of value vs curiosity - I have  T54128 issue where the track length is 2:46.

Was trying to list on Discogs and noticed all of them (I think!) are 2:44

Someone out there will know why...

 

 

[The Yank]

According to "The Complete Motown Singles- Vol. 6- 1966, there are 2 different mixes to 

"This Old Heart...". Brian Holland mixed the 1st version and Lawrence Horn did the 2nd mix

which has more echo and a few things added. Not sure which is which though . 

   According to my cd player, the 1st version is longer. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by The Yank

[Soulboyrecords]

On 23/09/2020 at 18:14, The Yank said:

According to "The Complete Motown Singles- Vol. 6- 1966, there are 2 different mixes to 

"This Old Heart...". Brian Holland mixed the 1st version and Lawrence Horn did the 2nd mix

which has more echo and a few things added. Not sure which is which though . 

   According to my cd player, the 1st version is longer. 

Thanks Yank - maybe that's it...only 2 seconds in it ... I suspect no one on Discogs has noticed when listing and there are likely many 2.46 mins versions listed under the 2.44 entries 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Soulboyrecords

[Andy Rix]

2.46 version .. different DM number 

Andy

[Chalky]

Not only is the time different but the HX number above the time is different

HXV 173323 @ 2:46

HXL 175313 @2:44

[Andy Rix]

Indeed  Chalky ... as you will know letters of the alphabet were assigned to people at Motown ... I recall a full list was published on the Detroit Soul Forum a few years ago ...Robb K will remember better than I

V is Brian Holland 

L is Lawrence Horn .... I note the comment from The Yank in a previous thread

So the three alphabet letters ... without properly reminding myself .. signal producer, arranger and the guy who did the mix

the numbers that follow identify which master tape it’s on ... every mix has its own unique number 

if you look at the current John Manship auction of the 4Tops.. Ask The Lonely ... the DM number is different to the 45 version released on 5 Jan 65 .. the acetate he has is dated 13 Feb 65 and a different DM number so a different mix ... the logs have at least 12 different mixes of this song and each will have a unique DM number ... from those I’ve heard I can’t actually tell the difference... but the tweaks are subtle, a bit more echo, strings a bit more prominent ... the cymbal sounds louder ... to us mortals with defective hearing it is a mystery !

Chalky we both need our eyes testing as well ... I posted the demo of the 2.46 version .... 2.44 will follow

Andy

[Andy Rix]

Here it is 

Andy

[Andy Rix]

And a few more examples of the different DM mixes .. I’ve listened to them but really cannot hear any significant difference .. apart from the Miracles !

Andy

[The Yank]

[Mick Holdsworth]

13 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

2.46 version .. different DM number 

Andy

 

9 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Here it is 

Andy

 

In this case they are both HXV (Brian Holland) mixes as per the images. Is there an HXL (Lawrence Horn) mix too ?

 

[Chalky]

From 45 cat...

HXV both 2.44 & 2.46 and the third is the HXL

[Chalky]

oops duplicate post

Edited September 27, 2020 by Chalky

[Mick Holdsworth]

Three label variations then.

I wonder if the second one (HXV 175313) was a printing error. The printers changed the time and number, but forgot to change the mixer designation, so then corrected the label to read HXL 175313.

[Tony Clements]

Here's the Australian label (from Discogs).

HXL-175313 timed at 2:39, they've been short changed by 5 seconds?

Anyone got that version to confirm the timing?

[The Yank]

Marvin's "Take This Heart Of Mine" also came out with 2 different versions- 

 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, The Yank said:

Marvin's "Take This Heart Of Mine" also came out with 2 different versions- 

 

Three (at least) I think that is 190203, not 190303

[Mal C]

5 hours ago, Tony Clements said:

Here's the Australian label (from Discogs).

HXL-175313 timed at 2:39, they've been short changed by 5 seconds?

Anyone got that version to confirm the timing?

Yes I do and just timed it, spot on 2:39.  

nice radio station demo for you below, complete with all its play stamps, first spun in  Adelaide Gaol prison, 14th April 1966:-)  

Edited September 27, 2020 by Mal C

[The Yank]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Three (at least) I think that is 190203, not 190303

I've got to admit that looks like WIL-190203.  But on this cleaner variation that looks like it came from the same pressing plant, the number looks like WIL-190302. So I don't know if your label has a typo or if that number is a 3 instead of a 2. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by The Yank

[Mick Holdsworth]

9 hours ago, The Yank said:

I've got to admit that looks like WIL-190203.  But on this cleaner variation that looks like it came from the same pressing plant, the number looks like WIL-190302. So I don't know if your label has a typo or if that number is a 3 instead of a 2. 

That's WIL-193302, not 190302.

[Andy Rix]

Found a couple more

Andy

[The Yank]

5 hours ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

That's WIL-193302, not 190302.

  Yes but .......

                       If you look at the 1st version I posted, the info is WIL 190303 and it's the 2:51 version, the 2nd copy is WIL-193302 - the 2:46 version.

         Chalky's copy shows 190203 and is also the 2:51 version which is why I suggested a typo.

      The Complete Motown Singles- Vol. 6 - 1966 only shows 2 versions released. 

 

[Tony Clements]

22 hours ago, Mal C said:

Yes I do and just timed it, spot on 2:39.  

nice radio station demo for you below, complete with all its play stamps, first spun in  Adelaide Gaol prison, 14th April 1966:-)  

Oh, that's nice. Would look lovely in my 'Motown around the World' collection 

Timed UK copies @ 2.42 on original LP, 2.40 on TMG555 & 2.41 on TMG 937.

Presume these and the Australian version are all the same mix but just slightly different fades at end.

[Mick Holdsworth]

17 hours ago, The Yank said:

  Yes but .......

                       If you look at the 1st version I posted, the info is WIL 190303 and it's the 2:51 version, the 2nd copy is WIL-193302 - the 2:46 version.

         Chalky's copy shows 190203 and is also the 2:51 version which is why I suggested a typo.

      The Complete Motown Singles- Vol. 6 - 1966 only shows 2 versions released. 

 

Yep, those are the three versions all with images above, two by yourself amd one by Chalky.

WIL 190303
WIL-193302
WIL-190203

It was your reference to WIL-190302 I didn't get.

[The Yank]

One more for the list - 

 

[Andy Rix]

An article Steve Armitage, and I, wrote in 1993 ... explaining the number system

might be of interest

Andy

[Modernsoulsucks]

Can I just say life is too short !

I've got those two "When I'm gone" cuts.

I can't tell any difference. Maybe someone could enlighten me ?

And I know vague but the "recording" that I see as said to be the rarer seems to be the most common ! Kinda checked it out once but then lost the will to live.

I collect US Motown supposedly.

 

 

[The Yank]

I just played both versions of "When I'm Gone" back to back and I didn't notice any difference

either. So whatever the difference is. it has to be very subtle.

[Modernsoulsucks]

16 minutes ago, The Yank said:

I just played both versions of "When I'm Gone" back to back and I didn't notice any difference

either. So whatever the difference is. it has to be very subtle.

Thank you.

I thought I was going mad.