Premier League: Radical reform

[Mike 5,596]

Premier League: Radical reform plans in the best interest of clubs, says Rick Parry

English Football League chairman Rick Parry has praised Liverpool and Manchester United for coming up with a plan he believes can protect the English football pyramid.

Parry is backing the controversial proposals, which include reducing the Premier League to 18 clubs and scrapping the EFL Cup.

In return, the EFL would get 25% of all future TV deals, which would be negotiated jointly, plus the £250m bail-out Parry has being demanding since May.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54502459

 

so what's the take out there in freebasing land on this?

 

[Stevegods 1,452]

Just seen this Mike , and I’ve just posted elsewhere , may want to move it .

I find it all a bit sad - should not this be done by the leagues and the FA , not lead by clubs at the top . 

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

36 minutes ago, Stevegods said:

Just seen this Mike , and I’ve just posted elsewhere , may want to move it .

I find it all a bit sad - should not this be done by the leagues and the FA , not lead by clubs at the top . 

Steve.  I will take that as a compliment mate with the clubs at the top bit.

Two biggest clubs in the country want change but the Premier league apparently saying its a bad thing, probably because of the amount of TV revenue they could possibly lose because a league of only 18 would mean less games to have TV coverage 

[Shinehead 1,860]

Looks a good deal to me , the Premier League generates money and gives some of it to the lower leagues to sustain their existence. 

But unfortunately the yo-yo teams in the Premier league say no just to protect their own interest.

The hidden agenda to me though seems that with fewer league games and no League Cup that creates more dates to arrange lucrative friendlies around the globe for the likes of United, Liverpool and Arsenal .

 

 

[Colnago 574]

Is it a bit of a coincidence that they’ve come up with this idea while fans are not permitted to games , thus any protests will not be heard , I’m not biased by the way , just a thought .... 

[Tomangoes 2,971]

As I understood things up until covid 19...give or take a few quid, in terms of revenue per club from the governing bodies who distribute money paid to them from tv etc...

Premiership gets you £90m a year minimum plus parachute payments of about £60m for a couple of seasons if you drop out.

Championship was £9m

No parachute payments.

Div 1 was £1m

No parachute payments

Div 2 was £100k

So I guess somebody can do the math to see who wins and loses.

Its hard to imagine that those offering a new deal...Will actually be losing out.

Its not impossible for a big 6 team to get relegated....but it might well be in the near future, this is fixed so no team goes in or out of the premiership just like USA MLS teams who are essentially protected.

Ed

 

 

 

[Zoomsoulblue 775]

I still haven’t got over the last time they effing changed it

[Shinehead 1,860]

14 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

 

Its not impossible for a big 6 team to get relegated....but it might well be in the near future, this is fixed so no team goes in or out of the premiership just like USA MLS teams who are essentially protected.

Ed

 

 

 

Not having relegation from the Premier League will never happen, if you take relegation away the league loses it competiveness and appeal to the broadcasters .

 

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

27 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

As I understood things up until covid 19...give or take a few quid, in terms of revenue per club from the governing bodies who distribute money paid to them from tv etc...

Premiership gets you £90m a year minimum plus parachute payments of about £60m for a couple of seasons if you drop out.

Championship was £9m

No parachute payments.

Div 1 was £1m

No parachute payments

Div 2 was £100k

So I guess somebody can do the math to see who wins and loses.

Its hard to imagine that those offering a new deal...Will actually be losing out.

Its not impossible for a big 6 team to get relegated....but it might well be in the near future, this is fixed so no team goes in or out of the premiership just like USA MLS teams who are essentially protected.

Ed

 

 

 

Ed. That's what happened in rugby league when super league first started.  No promotion or relegation,  stadium had to be a certain standard.  Maurice Lydnsey was in charge at the time and he was also chairman of Wigan RLFC and he hated how successful Widnes had been so guess what.  Widnes who had been relegated for the first time ever where denied entry into super league even though they met all the criteria put forward and the stadium was brand new where refused and I think 17 years later they're still playing catch up.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by Winsford Soul

[Chalky 15,427]

1 hour ago, Tomangoes said:

As I understood things up until covid 19...give or take a few quid, in terms of revenue per club from the governing bodies who distribute money paid to them from tv etc...

Premiership gets you £90m a year minimum plus parachute payments of about £60m for a couple of seasons if you drop out.

Championship was £9m

No parachute payments.

Div 1 was £1m

No parachute payments

Div 2 was £100k

So I guess somebody can do the math to see who wins and loses.

Its hard to imagine that those offering a new deal...Will actually be losing out.

Its not impossible for a big 6 team to get relegated....but it might well be in the near future, this is fixed so no team goes in or out of the premiership just like USA MLS teams who are essentially protected.

Ed

 

 

 

Parachute payments are 55% in the first year, 45% in year two and, if the club was in the Premier League for more than one season before relegation, 20% in the third year. 

Totally unfair to the rest of the Championship clubs IMO.

[Chalky 15,427]

Parry would praise Liverpool and Man U for this plan and give it his backing, he was the one who started it three years ago.  He also comes out of this looking like the saviour of the Football league with the money they would reap.

However you have to look beneath the surface and you see this is a plan to put in place room for a larger expanded Champions League or European midweek league.  

The scrapping of the league cup, charity shield and fewer league games, this will mean less TV revenue?  There are also plans for the PL to take so. many games in house for their own TV Channels, again less revenue from TV rights?

But it is the plans for the top six to wield all the power, more power than the League itself.  12 clubs would basically have no say in anything and the top six will put through all their own proposals that would be in their favour.

West Ham, Southampton, why do they get special treatment?  Other clubs have ben in the league longer?  Thankfully WHU have said they do not back this so that is one less vote for this.

It is nothing more than a power grab and imagine the government doing this?  Oh hang on.....

As for relegation never getting taken away, it is the Americans who are behind this, they are used to running franchises where there is already no relegation.

[Chalky 15,427]

2 hours ago, Shinehead said:

Looks a good deal to me , the Premier League generates money and gives some of it to the lower leagues to sustain their existence. 

But unfortunately the yo-yo teams in the Premier league say no just to protect their own interest.

The hidden agenda to me though seems that with fewer league games and no League Cup that creates more dates to arrange lucrative friendlies around the globe for the likes of United, Liverpool and Arsenal .

 

 

It won't be for friendlies, it is for the European midweek league that has been spoken of for years now.

Only the top six will get a say in the running of the league, no more one club one vote, how is that a good thing.  Clubs will also be lost from the EFL as two clubs will have to drop down to the National League.

They are not offering to give the money to the EFL for nothing, there is a motive for this.

 

[Leicester Boy 767]

13 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Parry would praise Liverpool and Man U for this plan and give it his backing, he was the one who started it three years ago.  He also comes out of this looking like the saviour of the Football league with the money they would reap.

However you have to look beneath the surface and you see this is a plan to put in place room for a larger expanded Champions League or European midweek league.  

The scrapping of the league cup, charity shield and fewer league games, this will mean less TV revenue?  There are also plans for the PL to take so. many games in house for their own TV Channels, again less revenue from TV rights?

But it is the plans for the top six to wield all the power, more power than the League itself.  12 clubs would basically have no say in anything and the top six will put through all their own proposals that would be in their favour.

West Ham, Southampton, why do they get special treatment?  Other clubs have ben in the league longer?  Thankfully WHU have said they do not back this so that is one less vote for this.

It is nothing more than a power grab and imagine the government doing this?  Oh hang on.....

As for relegation never getting taken away, it is the Americans who are behind this, they are used to running franchises where there is already no relegation.

Absolutely this, the "giveaway " is a smokescreen they are on a power grab , once the so called "big 6" get the power football as we all know it is finished. They are throwing out bait to real desperate clubs to back their case. Dont be fooled these people are going to ensure the likes of "us" never win the premier again. Franchise loving Americans will destroy our national sport. Ive followed leicester for 50 years if they succeed im done. 

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

54 minutes ago, Leicester Boy said:

Absolutely this, the "giveaway " is a smokescreen they are on a power grab , once the so called "big 6" get the power football as we all know it is finished. They are throwing out bait to real desperate clubs to back their case. Dont be fooled these people are going to ensure the likes of "us" never win the premier again. Franchise loving Americans will destroy our national sport. Ive followed leicester for 50 years if they succeed im done. 

I was done with United when the Glazers took over and destroyed the club I've loved and followed home and away and in Europe since 1972. It was only the genius of Fergie that kept the club at the top after they took over and when this chief executive was appointed in 2013 from a city of London job , it became even more evident of the way the club was heading.  Dont get me wrong the club has always been run successfully off the field by shrewd business men with a formula that other First division/ Premier league clubs where and still are envious of. They set the blueprint of having among other things a shop / shops around the world selling merchandise that has been copied around the globe. I really hope that the Premier league will stop this happening.  But money is king these days  regardless of what happens or of the consequences 

[Baz Atkinson 436]

I agree with Karl definitely a “ power grab “ for Rick Parry who’s interests and intentions need to be questioned . It all sounds incredibly elitist and a power move to placate the lower divisions who we know need dire help now . 
Why can’t a cash rich league help the lower  division clubs the distribution and money is a disgrace . I have watched some Third tier  teams been a Sunderland fan incredibly committed but not supported surely part of any new structure should he to preserve the smaller clubs some having a rich tapestry of history and  tradition? 
If it comes off it needs to be fully supported by every club not just the six clubs, it may with full consultation actually help a lot of clubs out of a huge mess but has to be well intentioned with no hidden agenda ? 

[Stevegods 1,452]

6 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Steve.  I will take that as a compliment mate with the clubs at the top bit.

Two biggest clubs in the country want change but the Premier league apparently saying its a bad thing, probably because of the amount of TV revenue they could possibly lose because a league of only 18 would mean less games to have TV coverage 

Yes pal .. still see Man U as one of the big teams - if not by league position just by history and world wide appeal - even if in decline

it is sad that many of the clubs we all grew up with have sold out to foreign investors, but that’s the way of the world now .. we just have to be glad that we both had glory days that will stay with us forever , I know mine will . 

I guess it’s difficult to turn back the Frankenstein money monster that companies like Sky have created ... and I’m not sure we can save all of the lower league clubs recover from all of this .. I’m just glad I had those early years on the Kop enjoying St John - Roger Hunt - Dalglish - Toshack - Rush  

[Chalky 15,427]

18 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Steve.  I will take that as a compliment mate with the clubs at the top bit.

Two biggest clubs in the country want change but the Premier league apparently saying its a bad thing, probably because of the amount of TV revenue they could possibly lose because a league of only 18 would mean less games to have TV coverage 

Its not just the games featuring the two clubs removed that they would lose (68 games less) but so many games would be lost for the clubs to screen on their own TV channels.  The “lesser” teams would be losing out here as most neutrals would watch the big boys. 

[Tomangoes 2,971]

A top premiership player is on £300 to £400 grand a week. Some never make the grade.

Let's call it £20m a year including national insurance and add ons.

Top 6 wage bill must be pushing £300m a year.

I dread to think of the nightmare of getting relegated, and no return in 3 years etc.

Of course there will be some protection in contracts if relegation occurs but it won't be a 90% pay cut....

No wonder the 'big picture' might be to segregate the Premier league. The imbalance is just too severe.

Ed

 

 

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

10 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

A top premiership player is on £300 to £400 grand a week. Some never make the grade.

Let's call it £20m a year including national insurance and add ons.

Top 6 wage bill must be pushing £300m a year.

I dread to think of the nightmare of getting relegated, and no return in 3 years etc.

Of course there will be some protection in contracts if relegation occurs but it won't be a 90% pay cut....

No wonder the 'big picture' might be to segregate the Premier league. The imbalance is just too severe.

Ed

 

 

Ed. Up until this season Stoke City who where relegated from the premiership four  seasons ago had players on Premier league wages because they had signed 5 year deals . Some wasn't even getting games so they were getting 30k - 60k a week doing nothing apart from training.  What chances do they have to get transferred when clubs cant / won't match the current level of wages. Don't you really feel sorry for them.

 

[Blackpoolsoul 1,082]

Well that's that then, wasted more time from our lives. Glad it is staying as is

[Baz Atkinson 436]

Yes it’s good that the vote was a serious 2 fingers to the teams that proposed it . For a change in football common sense has prevailed although a package still need to be sorted for the lower league clubs facing potential closer due to covid ! 

[Rudzy 324]

A natural progression will be to form a European Super League.

Can't wait! - instead of the same old same old.

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

3 minutes ago, Rudzy said:

A natural progression will be to form a European Super League.

Can't wait! - instead of the same old same old.

They have been saying that since the premier league was formed, it was only going to be a short while before a European super league but the premier league gets to much monies from sky/ BT  to let it happen

[Rudzy 324]

Just now, Winsford Soul said:

They have been saying that since the premier league was formed, it was only going to be a short while before a European super league but the premier league gets to much monies from sky/ BT  to let it happen

Surprised it's taking so long to come to fruition.

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

1 minute ago, Rudzy said:

Surprised it's taking so long to come to fruition.

Dont think it will mate

[Rudzy 324]

I think it will - but there again look at Brexit.

[Leicester Boy 767]

European super league ' yes please it keeps being used as a threat so let them go. What fans of the biggest clubs have to understand is they dont care about the local support they would be happy to fill the stadiums with toùrists. Matches played in asia, America etc euro super league then world wide with stadiums devoid of atmosphere.  The working mans game has been hijacked by money making people who care nothing for our football history or the fans.

[Rudzy 324]

Stupid International Friendlies should make way for a European Super League.

[Tomangoes 2,971]

I'm sure somebody somewhere has plotted a chart of where all the money thats gone into football clubs over the last 70 years has ended up.

Players are better rewarded.

Some owners will be wealthy from it, and some worse off.

One thing for sure is the income of a league 4 club 70 years ago compare to a league 1 club may have been 25% or more.

Today, I guess at 5% at the most.

I suspect the big 6 have no intention of reversing that trend..

Ed

[Chalky 15,427]

I doubt it will be a super league, an expanded Champions league probably, a second group stage maybe? 

The teams have to be affiliated to a league and will have to fulfil league commitments.....unless it is a full blown European League and they leave their home affiliations completely for good.  

[Chalky 15,427]

I'm not sure the American owners involved wanted a big 6 and fcuk anyone else.  They are from the US franchise system and a very good percentage of the teams stand a chance of winning in most of their sports.  The Liverpool owner has said too many are not interested in winning anything just survival and to some extent he is right and that isn't really good for competition.

[Baz Atkinson 436]

40 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I'm not sure the American owners involved wanted a big 6 and fcuk anyone else.  They are from the US franchise system and a very good percentage of the teams stand a chance of winning in most of their sports.  The Liverpool owner has said too many are not interested in winning anything just survival and to some extent he is right and that isn't really good for competition.

I agree with that Karl and it does make you wonder about the mind set of premier league players it’s almost enough to get in that league and stay there particularly for those that have played in lower leagues etc . 

Can you imagine how the  premier league would be if the top rated top twenty players were involved in a draft Like scenario with the best going to the team that finished just above relegation. 

At least this year the odds have been upset a little but can’t help thinking that the top 6 will still be similar to last year perhaps with the exception of Everton ? 

[Leicester Boy 767]

9 hours ago, Chalky said:

I'm not sure the American owners involved wanted a big 6 and fcuk anyone else.  They are from the US franchise system and a very good percentage of the teams stand a chance of winning in most of their sports.  The Liverpool owner has said too many are not interested in winning anything just survival and to some extent he is right and that isn't really good for competition.

You sure about that chalky. Every time we build a team capable of challenging we lose players to ridiculous bids ,chilwell maguire mahrez kante,wolves and Southampton are and have suffered similarly. The name of the game for the " big 6" is to remain exactly that the last thing they want is competition. 

[Rudzy 324]

Here's another alternative to consider . . .

Get rid of the Champions League and turn it into the European Champions Cup.
If you finished 2nd or 3rd in your league you cannot be classed as a champion.

The Top Teams from all European Leagues are drawn against each other.
You might get drawn Home or Away.
Winner goes through to the next round.

[Chalky 15,427]

5 hours ago, Leicester Boy said:

You sure about that chalky. Every time we build a team capable of challenging we lose players to ridiculous bids ,chilwell maguire mahrez kante,wolves and Southampton are and have suffered similarly. The name of the game for the " big 6" is to remain exactly that the last thing they want is competition. 

That maybe so but it doesn't necessarily improve their teams, most Leicester fans were happy with Chilwell deal and some others from what I've read and heard?

Whilst they may want to remain top 6, they also want decent competition and the more teams that give the competition the healthier the league and theoretically the more money that can be made from higher rights packages.  Lets be honest the interest in some of the teams is practically zero outside their catchment area, not because of the gang mentality but because of the brand of football some play.  Some will forever struggle, others are happy to simply "make up the numbers" as the Liverpool owner said and they don't make good TV.

Go and look at the way US sports operate, the field John Henry and the Glazers are successful.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not defending the plan that was kicked out far from it.  It did have its merits but it did have proposals that would never be accepted in this country because they were completely at odds with how we have behaved as a nation, not just a sport.

1 hour ago, Rudzy said:

Here's another alternative to consider . . .

Get rid of the Champions League and turn it into the European Champions Cup.
If you finished 2nd or 3rd in your league you cannot be classed as a champion.

The Top Teams from all European Leagues are drawn against each other.
You might get drawn Home or Away.
Winner goes through to the next round.

Maybe the top 2 could drop out of the PL for a season and play in a European League home and away for a season?  The league would then be 18 teams.  Bring back Cup Winners Cup and Eufa Cup.

[Leicester Boy 767]

22 minutes ago, Chalky said:

That maybe so but it doesn't necessarily improve their teams, most Leicester fans were happy with Chilwell deal and some others from what I've read and heard?

Whilst they may want to remain top 6, they also want decent competition and the more teams that give the competition the healthier the league and theoretically the more money that can be made from higher rights packages.  Lets be honest the interest in some of the teams is practically zero outside their catchment area, not because of the gang mentality but because of the brand of football some play.  Some will forever struggle, others are happy to simply "make up the numbers" as the Liverpool owner said and they don't make good TV.

Go and look at the way US sports operate, the field John Henry and the Glazers are successful.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not defending the plan that was kicked out far from it.  It did have its merits but it did have proposals that would never be accepted in this country because they were completely at odds with how we have behaved as a nation, not just a sport.

Maybe the top 2 could drop out of the PL for a season and play in a European League home and away for a season?  The league would then be 18 teams.  Bring back Cup Winners Cup and Eufa Cup.

Yea fair enough, our sales have enabled us to build a decent squad but the gap between the 6 and the rest is enormous.  The European cup should be winners only and yes bring back cup winners cup and eufa cup but in football and northern terms i am a dinosaur. Any loss of local teams like bury is a terrible event for me and the money has to be filtered down but without the power grab.

[Chalky 15,427]

29 minutes ago, Leicester Boy said:

Yea fair enough, our sales have enabled us to build a decent squad but the gap between the 6 and the rest is enormous.  The European cup should be winners only and yes bring back cup winners cup and eufa cup but in football and northern terms i am a dinosaur. Any loss of local teams like bury is a terrible event for me and the money has to be filtered down but without the power grab.

The voting etc was always a non starter and yes the loss of the likes of Bury was terrible but I ma surprised it took so long for it to happen.  So many clubs need a reality check and to get their house in order.  Bury were spending money way beyond their means and many others are still behaving like this.  You only have to look what happened to Leeds, and my team Wednesday chasing the pot of gold.  All the teams are trying to buy a team,  not one attempts to build one, nurturing local talent and scouting for others.

Not sure how much money should be filtered down, I wouldn't want to keep bailing lower league clubs out because of their bad management.  I would make sure they got their house in order and ran properly before I would give them anything.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Chalky

[Rudzy 324]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Maybe the top 2 could drop out of the PL for a season and play in a European League home and away for a season?  The league would then be 18 teams.  Bring back Cup Winners Cup and Eufa Cup.

You could do that.

The current format is crap.

[Rudzy 324]

Get rid of the Europa League and turn it into the Europa Cup.
The 2nd & 3rd placed Teams from all European Leagues are drawn against each other.
You might get drawn home or away.
Winner goes through to the next round.

This will be far more exciting and would declutter the overworked fixture list.

[Tomangoes 2,971]

Looks like its all kicking off now. European Super League back on the agenda.

You can smell the greed and avarice in the air already.

Ed

[Soulman58 873]

On 17/10/2020 at 13:01, Rudzy said:

Get rid of the Europa League and turn it into the Europa Cup.
The 2nd & 3rd placed Teams from all European Leagues are drawn against each other.
You might get drawn home or away.
Winner goes through to the next round.

This will be far more exciting and would declutter the overworked fixture list.

Don't disagree re the excitement but it will never go anywhere all they want is more teams and games.

[Rudzy 324]

Just now, Soulman58 said:

Don't disagree re the excitement but it will never go anywhere all they want is more teams and games.

Too many games and not enough match fit players.

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

Liverpool and Man United in talks to form breakaway European Premier League

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/QbBDdk

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Winsford Soul

[Rudzy 324]

Inevitable really.
I would send the top 2 English teams up to the European Premier League.
and unless they win the league replace them each year with a new Premier League champion and runner up.

You are only allowed to play in 1 League at a time.

[Rudzy 324]

I'm A Greedy Man . . .

Players wages should be capped at £1 Million per player per season.

Maximum Transfer Fee should be capped at £10 Million.

10% of any extra's through a player's sponsorship should go to the Marcus Rashford Food Bank.

[Leicester Boy 767]

21 hours ago, Rudzy said:

Inevitable really.
I would send the top 2 English teams up to the European Premier League.
and unless they win the league replace them each year with a new Premier League champion and runner up.

You are only allowed to play in 1 League at a time.

They are not looking for anything other than a closed shop where their money is guaranteed year in year out, they dont want a porto winning the champions league again or a Leicester winning the premier league, they want money and "success " guaranteed without the danger of losing out to better ran clubs, its not about success its pure greed.

[Rudzy 324]

1 hour ago, Leicester Boy said:

They are not looking for anything other than a closed shop where their money is guaranteed year in year out, they dont want a porto winning the champions league again or a Leicester winning the premier league, they want money and "success " guaranteed without the danger of losing out to better ran clubs, its not about success its pure greed.

Yes at the moment it looks that way, but it will develop more fairly over time.

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

LEGEND 

[Dylan 730]

7 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

LEGEND 

The vote earlier in the week to deny the poorest kids a free meal in the holidays was disgusting.  It’s pence in comparison to the money they waste on hair brained ideas.

[Winsford Soul 14,923]

15 minutes ago, Dylan said:

The vote earlier in the week to deny the poorest kids a free meal in the holidays was disgusting.  It’s pence in comparison to the money they waste on hair brained ideas.

So agree. The schools fairly local to me here in Manchester have today sent the kids on free school meals home with a hamper to help them get through the half term. Its fuckin heartbreaking that we have come to this as supposedly one of the richest countries in the world.  ( I've deleted the rest of my post out of respect for Mike and this site. )