Tomangoes and Precisions acetates on eBay - legit?

[Littlestanley 26]

Seen both of these for sale on eBay from the same seller finishing today, value opinions on are they legit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LISTEN-UNKNOWN-ARTIST-TOMANGOES-GREAT-NORTHERN-SOUL-8-ACETATE-RECORD/353327934747?hash=item5243fc6d1b:g:ExwAAOSwFn1f4PZf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LISTEN-THE-PRECISIONS-I-WANNA-TELL-MY-BABY-MY-LOVER-NORTHERN-SOUL-ACETATE/293916023655?hash=item446ec29b67:g:uukAAOSwXwBf4P1f

 

[Dobber 669]

I’d say they were,they look the same as many I’ve had over the years! Shame the tomangoes keeps skipping though,unless it can be repaired it ain’t worth having,the precisions  is an ok tune too! I’ve had the released 45 in the past,sounds a bit dated now,not sure from a djing point  of view it would have any impact!

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

They both look totally legit. Sadly, the pair look like they are delaminating on the run-ins with the lacquer missing. The turntable looks a bit naff so the stylus may be worn? That said, to auction a disc like this in the hope it will fetch good money, the seller should attempt to explain the three skips; are there noticeable nicks or gouges causing the problems? If the lacquer is actually missing where the disc skips, this should be made abundantly clear. Some skips can be fixed easily so if there is scope for this, it could be indicated. This could be a bargain-buy, especially if the disc is OK and the turntable is at fault, but who would be willing to spend big to find out?

[Henning v Herzen 36]

The problem is that there are about 8 skips at least. It's gonna be tough to repair. 

[Benji 981]

Ebay says seller is from Tbilisi, Georgia.Jo

[Thfcliam 80]

Skips three times but listed at VG ?

[soulhawk 66]

2 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

They both look totally legit. 

I'm not so certain - they have the look of custom-made acetates made in the 70's i.e Emi Discs etc

I could swear that was Ron Murphy's handwriting

[Littlestanley 26]

Appreciated all 

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

1 hour ago, soulhawk said:

I'm not so certain - they have the look of custom-made acetates made in the 70's i.e Emi Discs etc

I could swear that was Ron Murphy's handwriting

The whole haul has an eclectic look about it. The range of acetates suggests an interesting variety of sources. There are Emidiscs present that might set alarms ringing. The two disks in question look like studio test presses and at 8 inches diameter, not a 70’s knock-off. Someone has paid a hefty sum for the Washpan disk so were convinced it had potential value.

[Chalky 15,451]

17 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The whole haul has an eclectic look about it. The range of acetates suggests an interesting variety of sources. There are Emidiscs present that might set alarms ringing. The two disks in question look like studio test presses and at 8 inches diameter, not a 70’s knock-off. Someone has paid a hefty sum for the Washpan disk so were convinced it had potential value.

I wasn't convinced and I wouldn't have got involved tbh

[Littlestanley 26]

Chalky appreciated and took that same decision

 

[Ted Massey 1,967]

And it skips as well

[soulhawk 66]

Tomangoes was recorded at United Sound and they had their own blank labels, so it's unlikely to be a studio acetate...

what this reminds of is a Audiodisc acetate glued the bathroom wall in StreetCorner Records ( Detroit ) labeled, "F.WILSON" and "JOBETE" as a joke

 

 

[Chalky 15,451]

1 hour ago, soulhawk said:

Tomangoes was recorded at United Sound and they had their own blank labels, so it's unlikely to be a studio acetate...

what this reminds of is a Audiodisc acetate glued the bathroom wall in StreetCorner Records ( Detroit ) labeled, "F.WILSON" and "JOBETE" as a joke

 

 

One of the questions I asked myself?  They could well have bought blanks in.

I was far from convinced they were genuine studio discs

[Mal C 2,836]

5 hours ago, soulhawk said:

I'm not so certain - they have the look of custom-made acetates made in the 70's i.e Emi Discs etc

I could swear that was Ron Murphy's handwriting

here is Ron Murphy's Handwriting on the left...

[soulhawk 66]

calling CSI

[Eddie Hubbard 678]

11 hours ago, soulhawk said:

Tomangoes was recorded at United Sound and they had their own blank labels, so it's unlikely to be a studio acetate...

what this reminds of is a Audiodisc acetate glued the bathroom wall in StreetCorner Records ( Detroit ) labeled, "F.WILSON" and "JOBETE" as a joke

 

 

 

[Nick Soule 89]

The same seller now has an acetate of the Magnetics "When I'm With My Baby" that has very similar handwriting to the Precisions: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LISTEN-THE-MAGNETICS-WHEN-IM-WITH-MY-BABY-UNIQUE-NORTHERN-SOUL-ACETATE/353338699595?hash=item5244a0af4b%3Ag%3AgoAAAOSwQaBf743N&LH_Auction=1

[Modernsoulsucks 2,232]

34 minutes ago, Nick Soule said:

The same seller now has an acetate of the Magnetics "When I'm With My Baby" that has very similar handwriting to the Precisions: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LISTEN-THE-MAGNETICS-WHEN-IM-WITH-MY-BABY-UNIQUE-NORTHERN-SOUL-ACETATE/353338699595?hash=item5244a0af4b%3Ag%3AgoAAAOSwQaBf743N&LH_Auction=1

He'll be listing a bridge next.

[The Yank 2,062]

The other big tip off is the acetate itself- look how far the grooves are spread out. I don't have one 60's or 70's (pre -Disco) acetate that has the grooves spread out so far- they are usually the same size as they would be on the 45.

[Littlestanley 26]

2 hours ago, The Yank said:

The other big tip off is the acetate itself- look how far the grooves are spread out. I don't have one 60's or 70's (pre -Disco) acetate that has the grooves spread out so far- they are usually the same size as they would be on the 45.

 

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

Alarm bells now ringing. I smell a rat. Apologies to anyone I might have mislead earlier. The seller could explain the provenance to help clarify matters.

Another thing puzzling me is how can a 10 inch disc play at 45 rpm when a 7 inch record would (in contrast to a 12 inch playing at 33.3 rpm)?

[The Yank 2,062]

I have a few 10" acetates that play at 45 rpm  BUT they're from the 70's.

Edited January 3 by The Yank

[Dylan 730]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Alarm bells now ringing. I smell a rat. Apologies to anyone I might have mislead earlier. The seller could explain the provenance to help clarify matters.

Another thing puzzling me is how can a 10 inch disc play at 45 rpm when a 7 inch record would (in contrast to a 12 inch playing at 33.3 rpm)?

I don’t think you can relate size and speed.  I have 12” vinyl that plays at 33 and 45rpm unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

 

I probably have 7” vinyl that plays at 33 and 45rpm as well.

 

but I do think these actetates are very suspect. 

Edited January 3 by Dylan

[Ted Massey 1,967]

Bloody dodgy 

[Harrogatesoul 188]

Find it very hard to believe the seller has Tomangoes & Magnetics acetates. What's next? Frank Wilson? 

[Mike 5,610]

On 26/12/2020 at 18:01, Benji said:

Ebay says seller is from Tbilisi, Georgia

 

 

 

no one else noticed this?

plus did anyone have a look at the other items this geezer has for sale ?

big tells....  imo

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4 by Mike
tidy

[Simon T 494]

16 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The seller could explain the provenance to help clarify matters.

 

'Just for fun', if you need any help with the provenance of A's etc, or indeed record collecting in general, I can highly recommend this video guide. Go to 40m 30s for information on A's. Considering the condition of the seller's A's, i.e. all M's, I suspect they came from Lard's collection. as they're 'hard to find in that condition'!

 

[Littlestanley 26]

Thank you all. Agree didn't think these are authentic and feel for the bidders who won the Precisions and Tomangoes obviously believing these could be legit.

Simon T. appreciated the video  

[Woodbutcher 2,003]

So the venerable 'Lard' starts off wrong at square one by inferring that acetates and test pressings are one and the same and are the first stage of record production .... no wonder folk get it wrong if so-called 'popular experts' keep filling them with false info ... 

[Chalky 15,451]

I didn’t believe the first two, Precisions and Tomangoes were real, It was said where he came from at the beginning and looking at his other sales at the time didn’t fill me with any confidence they were real. This latest just reinforces what I thought originally. 

[Chalky 15,451]

23 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Alarm bells now ringing. I smell a rat. Apologies to anyone I might have mislead earlier. The seller could explain the provenance to help clarify matters.

Another thing puzzling me is how can a 10 inch disc play at 45 rpm when a 7 inch record would (in contrast to a 12 inch playing at 33.3 rpm)?

Depends what speed it was cut at I guess but not sure I’ve heard anything less than 12 on acetate play at 33. Seen plenty of issued 45s play at 33, got some myself. 

[Woodbutcher 2,003]

1 minute ago, Chalky said:

Depends what speed it was cut at I guess but not sure I’ve heard anything less than 12 on acetate play at 33. Seen plenty of issued 45s play at 33, got some myself. 

But they wouldn't be 45's then they'd be 33's ... 

Apologies Karl , but I have to start the year the way I mean to continue .... a twat ... 

[Chalky 15,451]

5 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

But they wouldn't be 45's then they'd be 33's ... 

Apologies Karl , but I have to start the year the way I mean to continue .... a twat ... 

why change the habit of a lifetime......

7” that play at 33rpm

[Woodbutcher 2,003]

We call them EP's down here in civilisation sir ... 

[Chalky 15,451]

11 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

We call them EP's down here in civilisation sir ... 

ah but they have 3 usually 4 tracks though

[The Yank 2,062]

RCA and Columbia did release 33 rpm singles in the 60's but the format never caught on - 

 

[Dylan 730]

I think generally 12” singles that play at 45rpm have better louder sound quality than a 12” that plays at 33rpm.

 

bigger grooves more spaced out.

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Depends what speed it was cut at I guess but not sure I’ve heard anything less than 12 on acetate play at 33. Seen plenty of issued 45s play at 33, got some myself. 

Thanks Chalky. I was thinking along the lines of 70’s Emidiscs being cut on 7 inch acetates at 45 rpm so when 10 inch oddities appear, what was the cutting standard? The more I look at the acetates in question, the more baffled I am. The recent one also has significant edge damage like the previous two but they all look different suggesting someone has got hold of some old, damaged discs... Mike’s point above points to details that anyone would question.

[Speedlimit 1,004]

 Here we go new that audio disc wasn't legit  magnetics recorded at mbs Chicago 

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

Magnetics currently at $787. All the bidders’ identities are hidden for a Private reason, probably because there is something to conceal

[Chalky 15,451]

3 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Magnetics currently at $787. All the bidders’ identities are hidden for a Private reason, probably because there is something to conceal

Some gullible people about who just don't do their homework.

The seller has been identified on Facebook as a well know faker darryl Menkin with evidence to support.

 

Edited January 6 by Chalky

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Some gullible people about who just don't do their homework.

The seller has been identified on Facebook as a well know faker darryl Menkin with evidence to support.

 

The Private bidders have shivved the number up, but surely nobody put in a genuine bid. Hopefully someone will refer the case to eBay.

[Soulstrutter 407]

As a few others have mentioned .... alarms bells rang immediately I saw Tiblisi, Georgia!!!  Why would they be there? ..  and what's the chances of any comeback if you did buy and they were 'wrong uns'!  I may be wrong but wouldn't take the risk!

[Soulstrutter 407]

5 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Magnetics currently at $787. All the bidders’ identities are hidden for a Private reason, probably because there is something to conceal

That's the seller not buyer hiding identities - it's an option you have as a seller so others can't see who's bidding!  ... but it's also convenient for him when someone wants to inspect feedback  ... as also can't see what he was selling!

[Modernsoulsucks 2,232]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Some gullible people about who just don't do their homework.

The seller has been identified on Facebook as a well know faker darryl Menkin with evidence to support.

 

Darryl Menkin ?

[Frankie Crocker 1,966]

2 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

That's the seller not buyer hiding identities - it's an option you have as a seller so others can't see who's bidding!  ... but it's also convenient for him when someone wants to inspect feedback  ... as also can't see what he was selling!

Yes, the seller hiding his mates’ bids or his other eBay account details or just keeping his business ‘private’ wink, wink, nudge, nudge. ‘Private’ means avoid, steer clear, watch out, something fishy going on...

[Blackpoolsoul 1,089]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

Some gullible people about who just don't do their homework.

The seller has been identified on Facebook as a well know faker darryl Menkin with evidence to support.

 

Is this his website

https://www.elvinyl.co.uk/artists/7082-darryl-menkin-vinyl

[Mike 5,610]

20 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Is this his website

https://www.elvinyl.co.uk/artists/7082-darryl-menkin-vinyl

 

that appears to be a uk marketplace site

as in it sell items, here's their about page

https://www.elvinyl.co.uk/about

 

[Mike 5,610]

12 hours ago, Chalky said:

 

 

the magnetic auction leads to this youtube account/page 

https://www.youtube.com/user/vinyluniverse7/videos