Silhouettes lp not me baby

[Dobber]

A few questions regarding this lp

was the single made way before the lp,and as an after thought,they decided to put it in with the lp cos they had boxes of unsold 45’s?

is the 45 really gonna be rare,cos surely to warrant producing and lp there would have been 1000’s pressed up?

why put “not me baby” on the lp(which I never knew was on the lp aswell) and put a single in of the same song? Looks like overkill?

lee

[Frankie Crocker]

Good questions Dobber. Now there is copy on John Manship’s auction, others may be posing similar questions. For example, was there a free 45 in every LP sold? The free single may have been a marketing ploy to encourage buyers of the LP to give the 45 to a friend to prompt them to buy the album. Mass producing 45’s was an expensive business so I don’t see there being a few hundred sitting around unwanted when there was an album planned for release.

[Chalky]

I have never seen an Lp with any indication there is a free 45 inside?  sticker etc.

I would imagine though back in the mist of time someone got the Lp with the 45 inside for it to become common accepted knowledge the 45 was given away with the Lp.

[Dobber]

8 hours ago, Chalky said:

I have never seen an Lp with any indication there is a free 45 inside?  sticker etc.

I would imagine though back in the mist of time someone got the Lp with the 45 inside for it to become common accepted knowledge the 45 was given away with the Lp.

You know what mate,I’ve just remembered years back on eBay there was an lp still shrink wrapped and the seller saying the lp DIDNT feel like it had a 45 inside it! Now this is food for thought,where could the rumour have started I wonder?

and again it doesn’t make sense to have the 45 in with the lp when the lp has the track on it anyway!

[Frankie Crocker]

41 minutes ago, Dobber said:

You know what mate,I’ve just remembered years back on eBay there was an lp still shrink wrapped and the seller saying the lp DIDNT feel like it had a 45 inside it! Now this is food for thought,where could the rumour have started I wonder?

and again it doesn’t make sense to have the 45 in with the lp when the lp has the track on it anyway!

Did they shrink wrap LP’s in the 60’s? The first cling film I saw on LP’s was in the late 70’s or early 80’s. Chalkie’s point about the lack of a promotional sticker is worth noting, but self-adhesive stickers were not common in the 60’s, it was all lick-‘n-stick hence so many ruined record labels. Goodway was probably a small outfit that used a small number of one-stop-shops to sell, so maybe the LP’s were stuffed by someone in a back room and the promotion done by word of mouth.

[Chalky]

8 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Did they shrink wrap LP’s in the 60’s? The first cling film I saw on LP’s was in the late 70’s or early 80’s. Chalkie’s point about the lack of a promotional sticker is worth noting, but self-adhesive stickers were not common in the 60’s, it was all lick-‘n-stick hence so many ruined record labels. Goodway was probably a small outfit that used a small number of one-stop-shops to sell, so maybe the LP’s were stuffed by someone in a back room and the promotion done by word of mouth.

Maybe it was a promotional thing at concerts etc?

[The Yank]

25 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Did they shrink wrap LP’s in the 60’s? 

 

    U.S. albums were definitely shrink wrapped in the 60's. I believe I read somewhere (?) the 1st shrink wrapped album was Ray Charles "Modern Sounds In Country And Western Music". A google search also shows the process started around 1962. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by The Yank

[Soul-slider]

The Tymes did the same thing, early 60's. At least they advertised the fact! The 45 is in a little pocket on front of the LP.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Soul-slider

[Blackpoolsoul]

There was a good thread on this here

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

14 hours ago, The Yank said:

    U.S. albums were definitely shrink wrapped in the 60's. I believe I read somewhere (?) the 1st shrink wrapped album was Ray Charles "Modern Sounds In Country And Western Music". A google search also shows the process started around 1962. 

If there was any one to help me please ?

1 hour ago, Soul-slider said:

The Tymes did the same thing, early 60's. At least they advertised the fact! The 45 is in a little pocket on front of the LP.

 

 

You both inspired me as I had one of those moments this morning thinking "Parkway" and "Goodway" both Philadelphia, must be related (stupid I know).

Clearly not, as I found this from radio history. Perhaps the rest is history that someone else can help with please.

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Stations/IDX/Station-Magazines-IDX/WIRE/WIRE-1968-08-OCR-Page-0002.pdf

Goer !!!! Love the name (we used it at school as a different term)

Edited January 31, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[The Yank]

7 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

If there was any one to help me please 

  Not sure what you're looking for help with ?

[Blackpoolsoul]

13 hours ago, The Yank said:

  Not sure what you're looking for help with ?

Once again I am not making myself clear !!!

Does anyone know anything about who owned the company and all about it (Goer and Goodway)......please 

[The Yank]

It appears that Goodway was owned by the Curtis Publishing Co. who decided to expand into records and tapes. Here's the names of some people who were in charge of the company. Not sure who owned Curtis Publishing though. 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

I Have a Val Shively record catalog from around '74 with the Silhouettes as a 45 rpm sales item for a couple of $. Not sure if this indicates anything but obviously was being sold separately to the LP.  

[Blackpoolsoul]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

I Have a Val Shively record catalog from around '74 with the Silhouettes as a 45 rpm sales item for a couple of $. Not sure if this indicates anything but obviously was being sold separately to the LP.  

Even in the USA in the days of your they would easily open and remove the 45 from the LP and sell it individually it's happened since the dawn of time

[Julianb]

14 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Even in the USA in the days of your they would easily open and remove the 45 from the LP and sell it individually it's happened since the dawn of time

More recently with the Don Gardner LP

[Blackpoolsoul]

53 minutes ago, Julianb said:

More recently with the Don Gardner LP

Are all the singles being sold separately taken from the LP or was it booted at the same time or later ?, as there are so many around

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 01/02/2021 at 16:18, The Yank said:

It appears that Goodway was owned by the Curtis Publishing Co. who decided to expand into records and tapes. Here's the names of some people who were in charge of the company. Not sure who owned Curtis Publishing though. 

OMG I think I have found the company thanks to your work !!!!

The first article mentioned a Bryl Wolk and its seems that the name might have been Beryl.

It seems the company are still going.....what do we think ? or just coincidence ?

https://goodwaygroup.com/history/

[Mick Holdsworth]

23 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Are all the singles being sold separately taken from the LP or was it booted at the same time or later ?, as there are so many around

The Jazzman "LP with single" was limited to 400, according to discogs.

The 45 was booted sometime after the Jazzman LP & single. It's easy to tell from the Jazzman 45s.

Boot is blocked from discogs but sellers have infested the genuine listing with it, so don't just click buy if you want one.

[Blackpoolsoul]

43 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

The Jazzman "LP with single" was limited to 400, according to discogs.

The 45 was booted sometime after the Jazzman LP & single. It's easy to tell from the Jazzman 45s.

Boot is blocked from discogs but sellers have infested the genuine listing with it, so don't just click buy if you want one.

Cheers Mick

I could always buy a cracked original from Manship

(I still cannot work out how a UPS delivery driver managed to run over it ?)

[Mick Holdsworth]

If you want an original, you could contact the 11 people on Discogs who claim they have one !

[Andy Rix]

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/obituaries/20140829_Beryl_J__Wolk__85__ad_innovator.html

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Andy Rix said:

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/obituaries/20140829_Beryl_J__Wolk__85__ad_innovator.html

 

On 01/02/2021 at 16:18, The Yank said:

It appears that Goodway was owned by the Curtis Publishing Co. who decided to expand into records and tapes. Here's the names of some people who were in charge of the company. Not sure who owned Curtis Publishing though. 

And lo and behold more connections, I love this.

LP produced for MW Lads and Marketed by Goodway and then on the same Log label as this LP More and Mindy.....WOW and so cool, the paths that lead

[The Yank]

The Curtis Publishing Co. also worked with Reprise Records in the 60's - 

 

[Dukeofburgundy]

Thanks for the posts. The Goodway group information is especially interesting. I would like to know why Milton Wolk called his son Beryl! 

https://latenighttales.co.uk/products/aln37
 

This relatively recent compilation called ‘Late Night Tales’ came with an additional 45 by Carrie Cleveland ‘Love Will Set You Free’ which immediately became highly collectible. I was lucky but virtually all the original pressings appear for sale now without the 45. Discogs banned the sale of the 45 separately making it even more difficult to find.

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 30/01/2021 at 12:26, Chalky said:

I have never seen an Lp with any indication there is a free 45 inside?  sticker etc.

I would imagine though back in the mist of time someone got the Lp with the 45 inside for it to become common accepted knowledge the 45 was given away with the Lp.

 

On 31/01/2021 at 10:16, Soul-slider said:

The Tymes did the same thing, early 60's. At least they advertised the fact! The 45 is in a little pocket on front of the LP.

 

Some new info here doesn't mention sticker though

In the late 1960s, The New Silhouettes continued to do live shows and club dates, keeping their sound alive. In 1968, an album merchandising agreement was made with the Sears and Roebuck company that resulted in the distribution of the group's first album. Titled The Original and New Silhouettes 58/68 Get A Job, the album was released on Goodway Records, a small company located on Roosevelt Boulevard in Philadelphia under the direction of Ed Cotlar. Cut at The Bell Studio in New York, it featured original versions of songs that spanned the group's career, from Get A Job and I Am Lonely to Rent Man and Climb Every Mountain. The album also included new recordings including a contemporary version of the 1930s tune Gaucho Serenade, and a soul-laced reworking of Get A Job.

According to the sales figures given to Lewis, over 200,000 copies of the Goodway LP were sold through Sears. The album is a collector's item today with copies selling for $200-$800. A photo of Wilson, Lewis, Beal, and Brown appeared on the back of the album. Although Brown sang on the new recordings, the liner notes listed Otis Lewis as being the group's bass. In actuality, Otis Lewis served as a temporary replacement and did not record with The Silhouettes. Goodway also released a single from the album, Gaucho Serenade / Not Me Baby, which they included in the jacket of each LP. Disco enthusiasts have long pointed to Not Me Baby as being one of the earliest examples of that style. For this reason, demand for the record in America and overseas remains high.

https://www.thesilhouettes.org/biography/biography-04.htm

Edited December 31, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[Chalky]

41 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

 

Some new info here doesn't mention sticker though

In the late 1960s, The New Silhouettes continued to do live shows and club dates, keeping their sound alive. In 1968, an album merchandising agreement was made with the Sears and Roebuck company that resulted in the distribution of the group's first album. Titled The Original and New Silhouettes 58/68 Get A Job, the album was released on Goodway Records, a small company located on Roosevelt Boulevard in Philadelphia under the direction of Ed Cotlar. Cut at The Bell Studio in New York, it featured original versions of songs that spanned the group's career, from Get A Job and I Am Lonely to Rent Man and Climb Every Mountain. The album also included new recordings including a contemporary version of the 1930s tune Gaucho Serenade, and a soul-laced reworking of Get A Job.

According to the sales figures given to Lewis, over 200,000 copies of the Goodway LP were sold through Sears. The album is a collector's item today with copies selling for $200-$800. A photo of Wilson, Lewis, Beal, and Brown appeared on the back of the album. Although Brown sang on the new recordings, the liner notes listed Otis Lewis as being the group's bass. In actuality, Otis Lewis served as a temporary replacement and did not record with The Silhouettes. Goodway also released a single from the album, Gaucho Serenade / Not Me Baby, which they included in the jacket of each LP. Disco enthusiasts have long pointed to Not Me Baby as being one of the earliest examples of that style. For this reason, demand for the record in America and overseas remains high.

https://www.thesilhouettes.org/biography/biography-04.htm

He may just be using the same information that many have been using regarding the free single without any actual facts it was included?

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

He may just be using the same information that many have been using regarding the free single without any actual facts it was included?

Not in this case , would Goodway ever release a single without the group name on it ?, after the previous single did. I used to think the same as you until someone pointed the obvious out to me and I laughed out loud

 

[Chalky]

5 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Not in this case , would Goodway ever release a single without the group name on it ?, after the previous single did. I used to think the same as you until someone pointed the obvious out to me and I laughed out loud

 

It’s the included in the jacket bit I’m talking about. There is no evidence it ever was included in the jacket. I’m not disputing it was ever released. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

17 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It’s the included in the jacket bit I’m talking about. There is no evidence it ever was included in the jacket. I’m not disputing it was ever released. 

It would never have been released without the group name on it, unless it was in the LP sleeve only

[Chalky]

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

It would never have been released without the group name on it, unless it was in the LP sleeve only

The group name is in it and if it was meant as a give away at gigs etc?

[Johndelve]

A few bits on this from me:

 

1. As has been said shrink wrapping was definitely used on LPs in the sixties

2. I am highly sceptical about the LP selling 200,000 copies. That would have made it a huge success.

3. A review of the LP in Billboard from April 20th 1968 does not mention the single at all. (Even though Billboard reviews were never particularly helpful, I would have thought it warranted a mention had it been part of the 'deal')

 

[Spook]

JM wrote in a previous auction of the LP & 45.

In the mid- 70's I did come across a few copies of this album still-sealed in Philadelphia only twice did it still have the 45 staring back at me from behind the cellophane. The few other sealed copies I came across, invariably had the wrapping carefully razored open, craftily slit at the bottom of the cover and the 45 carefully removed, leaving the value of a "sealed" LP more or less unimpaired. Always a disappointing "find", I'm sure other British 70's cratediggers experienced the exact same disheartening encounter. By the end of the 70's I never saw, even a blundered LP album again in the wild.

[Wheelsville1]

1 hour ago, Johndelve said:

A few bits on this from me:

 

1. As has been said shrink wrapping was definitely used on LPs in the sixties

2. I am highly sceptical about the LP selling 200,000 copies. That would have made it a huge success.

3. A review of the LP in Billboard from April 20th 1968 does not mention the single at all. (Even though Billboard reviews were never particularly helpful, I would have thought it warranted a mention had it been part of the 'deal')

 

Totally agree with you,i would have thought more like the low thoughsands.

[The Tempest]

I had a sealed copy - it did not contain the single - so that puts that myth to bed !

[Richard]

13 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Not in this case , would Goodway ever release a single without the group name on it ?, after the previous single did. I used to think the same as you until someone pointed the obvious out to me and I laughed out loud

 

Wouldn’t the give away be if someone had a copy that didn’t have “For Promotion” printed on it?

[Blackpoolsoul]

5 hours ago, The Tempest said:

I had a sealed copy - it did not contain the single - so that puts that myth to bed !

Not a myth bet only some copies had the freebies

In John Manships quote above

"In the mid- 70's I did come across a few copies of this album still-sealed in Philadelphia only twice did it still have the 45 staring back at me from behind the cellophane."

It reminds me of my kids trying to get the hologram cards out of a packet of Pokemon cards 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Blackpoolsoul

[Chalky]

9 hours ago, Johndelve said:

A few bits on this from me:

 

1. As has been said shrink wrapping was definitely used on LPs in the sixties

2. I am highly sceptical about the LP selling 200,000 copies. That would have made it a huge success.

3. A review of the LP in Billboard from April 20th 1968 does not mention the single at all. (Even though Billboard reviews were never particularly helpful, I would have thought it warranted a mention had it been part of the 'deal')

 

200.000 is not a lot really for a group that topped both pop and R&B charts. 

The Servicemen's first 45 was a 10.000 press but it is extremely rare. 

[The Yank]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

200.000 is not a lot really for a group that topped both pop and R&B charts. 

 

       The Silhouettes did top the Pop and R & B charts 10 years earlier- I can't see the company pressing 200,000 albums on a group that were hitless for that long.

                    Besides an album review in Billboard and "Not Me Baby" getting some airplay on a station in Trenton, New Jersey, it appears that the SiIhouettes comeback never happened.

                   Finally, if an album would have sold 200,000 copies it would have showed up on the Top Pop/Rock charts or the Soul Album charts.  The Silhouettes album never charted. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by The Yank

[Dave Pinch]

11 minutes ago, The Yank said:

       The Silhouettes did top the Pop and R & B charts 10 years earlier- I can't see the company pressing 200,000 albums on a group that were hitless for that long.

                    Besides an album review in Billboard and "Not Me Baby" getting some airplay on a station in Trenton, New Jersey, it appears that the SIlhouettes comeback never happened.

                   Finally, if an album would have sold 200,00o copies it would have showed up on the Top Pop/Rock charts or the Soul Album charts. 

absolutely.. they hadnt even really had a r n b hit since the late 50s..  all copies of the 45 are promo copies so it was never actually released at all

 

[Johndelve]

 Finally, if an album would have sold 200,000 copies it would have showed up on the Top Pop/Rock charts or the Soul Album charts.  The Silhouettes album never charted. 

Indeed.

Moreover, then,  April 1968, was a time when 'black' LPs were not taken very seriously by record companies. Even Stax, Atlantic and Motown were still heavily fixated on singles. This wasn't to change until "Hot Buttered Soul" did so well in the summer of 1969.

And, the 200,000 figure was claimed for just sales ! And given, clearly, any record produced in volume isn't going to sell out (unless it is a huge hit, which this LP obviously wasn't) then even MORE than 200,000 must have been produced - by a record company that had no longevity and no track record. 

I suspect, at best, a typo has crept in and for 200,000, read 20,000.

[Chalky]

12 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

absolutely.. they hadnt even really had a r n b hit since the late 50s..  all copies of the 45 are promo copies so it was never actually released at all

 

I agree 200000 highly unlikely, more than likely and John says 20.000.  As for charts, depends on how and where it was sold I guess.  Whatever the figure there must have been high hopes for the group, both from the group itself and those behind the label who weren't short of a bob or two.  As one of the group says in an interview when asked why they split, "it just didn't happen".

Sister label too

Edited January 2, 2022 by Chalky