Reissue or bootleg

[IanChristopher62]

 

I'm about to sell some old northern soul records. While I doubt that they are original first edition releases, they were purchased in the mid seventies and some from the all nighters at Wigan Casino. 

One example particularly springs to mind, Do I love you by Jackie Wilson. My copy is a cover by an artist called Eddie Foster, or more likely it is a bootleg of Jackie Wilson's original record put out by persons unknown in the Wigan area. Another record is a copy of Tainted Love which is a different coloured label to the genuine original, both bought from Wigan by me back in the day. What are the rules regarding this type of record and if I'm permitted to sell in the for sale, am I allowed to ask for assistance in valuing them here first?

Thanks in advance.

[Solidsoul]

Do you mean Frank Wilson instead of Jackie Wilson? 

I would not think it problem selling them, as long as you let potential buyers know they are lookalikes/boots, and do not state that they are originals.

[IanChristopher62]

Yes that's right Frank Wilson. I'll sort out a list with pictures and follow the advice offered.

[IanChristopher62]

The following records will be listed for sale. I've tried to find examples of genuine sales but they are few and far between for some of the rarer titles. If the northern soul fraternity here can help that would be great, thank you. 

Casino classic orange 12 inch ltd four track: a touch of velvet a sting of brass, Joe 90, the Wigan joker, six by six.

One wonderful moment by the shakers ABC label

Dance of love Suzy Parker/bok to back by father's angels blue port records 

Landslide by Tony Clarke Chess records 

Double life by Jerry Fuller white challenge label for your time

World without sunshine by Sandra Phillips gold Broadway label 

They'll never know why by Freddie Chavez red look records label 

Do I love you by Eddie Foster/Frank Wilson bootleg? Black iN label

Tainted love by Gloria Jones black champion label 

Stick by me baby by the Salvadors blue Wise world label 

I need you by Shane Martin red Columbia special products label 

Time will pass you by  Tobi Legend black & red Eric label 

Sliced tomatoes by the just brothers white music merchant label 

The snake by Al Wilson silver bell label 

Kiss me now by Florence Devore black phil-dan label 

The best thing for you baby by Gloria Parker yellow soul galore 

There's other less collectable ones that I'll list in a batch sale. 

Thank you all in advance for any information you can supply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neil Austin]

3 hours ago, IanChristopher62 said:

 

I'm about to sell some old northern soul records. While I doubt that they are original first edition releases, they were purchased in the mid seventies and some from the all nighters at Wigan Casino. 

One example particularly springs to mind, Do I love you by Jackie Wilson. My copy is a cover by an artist called Eddie Foster, or more likely it is a bootleg of Jackie Wilson's original record put out by persons unknown in the Wigan area. Another record is a copy of Tainted Love which is a different coloured label to the genuine original, both bought from Wigan by me back in the day. What are the rules regarding this type of record and if I'm permitted to sell in the for sale, am I allowed to ask for assistance in valuing them here first?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Ian 

 

hooe you are well , please up load a couple of pictures of the 45s and 

the condition of the vinyl and some one 

will answer the status and approximate 

price 

you can sell boot etc , lots of people buy them as well as originals 

just describe the 45 and say what it is 

and some one will pick the up 

good luck

[Mike]

two topics merged

[Winsford Soul]

Hi Ian.  The Sandra Phillips.  World without Sunshine sounds like a proper one on the Gold Broadway label. Bootleg was silver. 

Florence Devore will have pink and white on the label if it's real one. 

Good luck

Edited June 13, 2021 by Winsford Soul

[IanChristopher62]

Thanks for the info Winford Soul.

The Florence Devore is the mainly black with white (no pink) but does have the DJ copy only on it.

I bought both of these records in the late 70's (along with quite a few others) from Wigan Casino.

 

[Robbk]

4 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Hi Ian.  The Sandra Phillips.  World without Sunshine sounds like a proper one on the Gold Broadway label. Bootleg was silver. 

Florence Devore will have pink and white on the label if it's real one. 

Good luck

For Sandra Phillips, there was a silver legitimate Broadway issue as well, from a different plant.  Juggy had silver issues on several of his different labels for a several month period or about a year.  But none of that matters, as he has a gold copy, which was legit.  Yes, the Forence Devore boot was only black and white and the legit copy also has pink and powder blue in the background of the Phi-Dan logo.  The black on white bootleg looks obvious as taken from a poor photocopy, with light spots (disintigrated pixels) on many of the letters, and on the stripes on the Phi-Dan logo.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Robbk

[Winsford Soul]

5 hours ago, Robbk said:

For Sandra Phillips, there was a silver legitimate Broadway issue as well, from a different plant.  Juggy had silver issues on several of his different labels for a several month period or about a year.  But none of that matters, as he has a gold copy, which was legit.  Yes, the Forence Devore boot was only black and white and the legit copy also has pink and powder blue in the background of the Phi-Dan logo.  The black on white bootleg looks obvious as taken from a poor photocopy, with light spots (disintigrated pixels) on many of the letters, and on the stripes on the Phi-Dan logo.

Thanks Robb. Never knew anything about the legit silver issue and I bet most of the people here in the UK will be the same. 

Ste

[Trev Thomas]

bootleg looks like this

silver issue

[Robbk]

Here's an example of a legit silver Broadway, which I bought in 1964.  I deliberately used a record I can't imagine would have ever had a market worth making a bootleg.  I have seen quite a few Broadway and Eastern 45s on silver (and from my memory, they were quite a bit more common than the gold.  There were some Crackerjacks on silver, as well, and I think I remember a couple Symbols, and maybe even a Juggy.  I think they were mainly in late '64 and early '65.  I don't think I ever saw a silver Sue record.

[Robbk]

Yes, silver Broadways and Easterns sometimes had bars on them.  But Winsford Soul mentioned there were SILVER bootlegs.  The bootleg posted above is just a normal black on white.  Can we see the silver boot, too?  I don't remember ever seeing one of those.

[The Yank]

Broadway was still using the silver labels in 1966 which was when "World without Sunshine" was released. See survey below  # 37 ).

   There was also a red label "pressing" - 

Edited June 14, 2021 by The Yank

[Trev Thomas]

30 minutes ago, Robbk said:

Yes, silver Broadways and Easterns sometimes had bars on them.  But Winsford Soul mentioned there were SILVER bootlegs.  The bootleg posted above is just a normal black on white.  Can we see the silver boot, too?  I don't remember ever seeing one of those.

there is no silver boot of "world without sunshine"

[davidwapples]

Shane martin and just brothers are not original 

[Trev Thomas]

18 minutes ago, The Yank said:

Broadway was still using the silver labels in 1966 which was when "World without Sunshine" was released. See survey below  # 37 ).

   There was also a red label "pressing" - 

that red label looks as kosher as a bag of pork scratchings

[Winsford Soul]

6 minutes ago, Trev Thomas said:

there is no silver boot of "world without sunshine"

Trev. So all those silver ones at Wigan where all originals . News to me.  I've only ever had a Gold issue of both world without sunshine and You succeeded. And a Test press of World without sunshine 

[Winsford Soul]

There's a earlier thread about this and I've just grabbing a screenshot of what Pete Smith said

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Winsford Soul

[Trev Thomas]

31 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Trev. So all those silver ones at Wigan where all originals . News to me.  I've only ever had a Gold issue of both world without sunshine and You succeeded. And a Test press of World without sunshine 

there was 100's of gold issues around back in the day as well, all originals, i used to have a white label test pressing of world without sunshine, sold it to sam about 8/9 years ago

[Winsford Soul]

36 minutes ago, Trev Thomas said:

there was 100's of gold issues around back in the day as well, all originals, i used to have a white label test pressing of world without sunshine, sold it to sam about 8/9 years ago

Trev  I could have your white label test press now. Bought it of Chris  Anderton a few years ago. 

I've just added the picture of the silver issue that Pete Smith said was booted  which backs up my story

[Trev Thomas]

3 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Trev  I could have your white label test press now. Bought it of Chris  Anderton a few years ago. 

I've just added the picture of the silver issue that Pete Smith said was booted  which backs up my story

i'm assuming you're refering to the top copy, it looks white on my screen, however, if it's silver then i'm inclined to agree with you, as i'm not aware of any silver label demos only issues, like a lot of sue related stuff world without sunshine came out on quite a few different label designs, there are also monarch pressed styrene copies on various label designs, any chance of posting up a scan of your test press, it might be my old one, however i have seen a few test presses over the years, jim wensioria used to have a solid center acetate, plain white label with just the song titles typed on

[Winsford Soul]

9 minutes ago, Trev Thomas said:

i'm assuming you're refering to the top copy, it looks white on my screen, however, if it's silver then i'm inclined to agree with you, as i'm not aware of any silver label demos only issues, like a lot of sue related stuff world without sunshine came out on quite a few different label designs, there are also monarch pressed styrene copies on various label designs, any chance of posting up a scan of your test press, it might be my old one, however i have seen a few test presses over the years, jim wensioria used to have a solid center acetate, plain white label with just the song titles typed on

Yes Trev the top one. It's silver on my screen 

[Frankie Crocker]

On 13/06/2021 at 19:19, IanChristopher62 said:

The following records will be listed for sale. I've tried to find examples of genuine sales but they are few and far between for some of the rarer titles. If the northern soul fraternity here can help that would be great, thank you. 

Casino classic orange 12 inch ltd four track: a touch of velvet a sting of brass, Joe 90, the Wigan joker, six by six.

One wonderful moment by the shakers ABC label

Dance of love Suzy Parker/bok to back by father's angels blue port records 

Landslide by Tony Clarke Chess records 

Double life by Jerry Fuller white challenge label for your time

World without sunshine by Sandra Phillips gold Broadway label 

They'll never know why by Freddie Chavez red look records label 

Do I love you by Eddie Foster/Frank Wilson bootleg? Black iN label

Tainted love by Gloria Jones black champion label 

Stick by me baby by the Salvadors blue Wise world label 

I need you by Shane Martin red Columbia special products label 

Time will pass you by  Tobi Legend black & red Eric label 

Sliced tomatoes by the just brothers white music merchant label 

The snake by Al Wilson silver bell label 

Kiss me now by Florence Devore black phil-dan label 

The best thing for you baby by Gloria Parker yellow soul galore 

There's other less collectable ones that I'll list in a batch sale. 

Thank you all in advance for any information you can supply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ian. Most of the records you have listed have been bootlegged or reissued at some stage. If they are not original releases, demand for them will be low. if you go on Popsike, you will see what the original labels look like and the figures realised at auction. You may even find details of matrix etchings in the sales blurb. Manship’s Price Guide #5 has pretty good coverage of bootleg details and label scans. If you have an original Salvadors or Jerry Fuller, they are valuable, but as they were pressed in large numbers compared to the scarce availability of originals, the probability is you will have bootlegs.

[Neil Austin]

I think this one is a west coast promo

i do remember seeing a silver label in 

the day .

[Robbk]

5 hours ago, Trev Thomas said:

that red label looks as kosher as a bag of pork scratchings

That so-called "red" copy looks like a white DJ painted red with a magic marker! 

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, The Yank said:

Broadway was still using the silver labels in 1966 which was when "World without Sunshine" was released.

 

 

How forgetful of me.  I HAVE the record, and the pressing number starts with a 66 for the year, just as I got the 64 from The Johnson Sisters' record.  But, I should remember which year was 1964, and which was 1965, and which was 1966.  Those were my "Golden Years".  My favourite year of my 74 was 1964.  2nd was 1965, 3rd was 1966.  Those are the years from which I remember the most.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Robbk

[Trev Thomas]

6 hours ago, Robbk said:

That so-called "red" copy looks like a white DJ painted red with a magic marker! 

thats what i thought Robb,