Manship’s copy of Cecil Washington on Prophonics

[Frankie Crocker]

Nice copy up for auction hitting the 2K mark within 24 hours. Speculation about the finishing price inevitable. Yes, a truly great record that no collection should be without. Sure to go beyond £3,500 which is what I would peg the current value at. So at the insistence of Zan The Man, here’s the new thread to make your predictions.

[Dobber]

Id agree with you mate, 3.5k,and im basing that on the quality of the tune,it being mint, and it being moderately rare! 

[Neil Austin]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Nice copy up for auction hitting the 2K mark within 24 hours. Speculation about the finishing price inevitable. Yes, a truly great record that no collection should be without. Sure to go beyond £3,500 which is what I would peg the current value at. So at the insistence of Zan The Man, here’s the new thread to make your predictions.

Yes my fav of 78/79 , still love it today 

wish I had 3.5k  

[Winsford Soul]

So many memories attached to this tune. Don't really think it's a mega rare one but with they way the lunatics have taken over the asylum of late I'm going  £5000

[Neil Austin]

Steve I think your spot on  

[The Tempest]

I’ll go for £4K - and here’s the rarely heard “ other “ side for you all 

 

[Solidsoul]

14 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

So many memories attached to this tune. Don't really think it's a mega rare one but with they way the lunatics have taken over the asylum of late I'm going  £5000

It was amazing when Richard Searling first played it in Wigan Casino!

"I Don't Like To Lose" -   Joe Matthews. (Cover Up)

Instant No1 monster sound!

Edited September 30, 2021 by D9 Ktf

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Nice copy up for auction hitting the 2K mark within 24 hours. Speculation about the finishing price inevitable. Yes, a truly great record that no collection should be without. Sure to go beyond £3,500 which is what I would peg the current value at. So at the insistence of Zan The Man, here’s the new thread to make your predictions.

i would agree with your value..tho those with money and no clue will throw 5k at it for certain

10 minutes ago, The Tempest said:

I’ll go for £4K - and here’s the rarely heard “ other “ side for you all 

 

i played that side out a few times over the years

[Lionelonthevinyl]

Just now, Dave Pinch said:

i would agree with your value..tho those with money and no clue will throw 5k at it for certain

I'd of said £5,000 on Mr Manships as well, nice copy. Wouldn't surprise me at all if it went for way more though....I get shocked every week with prices...Rob

[The Yank]

15 minutes ago, The Tempest said:

I’ll go for £4K - and here’s the rarely heard “ other “ side for you all 

 

"The Light Of Day" got some airplay on Flint's WTRX - kind of hard to see but, it's at # 29- 

 

[Chalky]

If Magnetics is £7k then this will be something similar IMO.  

Scene changer of a record at the time, truly superb.  It has everything for the dancer really. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Chalky

[Soulman]

A truly awesome record but not rare, just hard to come by. I've had five or six (possibly on my sixth) in fact I had a couple at one time I gave one away. Although I already had one I walked into John M's shop in Melton one day and he had a copy on the shelf along with an issue of "Country Girl". I bought the two for £90. There are copies in collections which I'm sure will be going nowhere soon. There's at least six residing in Carlisle alone. 

 

[Zanetti]

13 minutes ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

..I get shocked every week with prices...Rob

you said it, my friend - sometimes you get off on it

[Davey S]

Well I'm sticking at 8500 it's in perfect condition and he buying market is mad.

Don't like it that much but each to their own.

[Billywhizz]

around 6k plus 

 

[Tomangoes]

Very atmospheric played loud at an all nighter..

I'm sure somebody somewhere knows how many sold/were produced.

£5k would be astonishing. Imagine if Northern Soul took off in the middle East with the oil rich kids buying into it:)

Great title for an auction item...I don't like to lose.

Ed

 

[Frankie Crocker]

Thanks for all the feedback music lovers. I can see it going for 4-5K, well above the level I have it pegged at right now. It is not the rarest of the really big sounds as plenty of copies have surfaced to be snapped up. This record is a real ‘keeper’ so once in a collection, it stays there for a long, long time. My first copy cost $1,700 at the Austin Record Show - I had that exact amount in travellers’ cheques but didn’t mind being cleaned out one little bit.

[Soulman]

55 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Very atmospheric played loud at an all nighter..

I'm sure somebody somewhere knows how many sold/were produced.

£5k would be astonishing. Imagine if Northern Soul took off in the middle East with the oil rich kids buying into it:)

Great title for an auction item...I don't like to lose.

Ed

 

It was pressed in quantity for sure and boxes made their way all over the country... even down to Texas. The fact that other more major labels used Prophonic (the correct spelling without the s) allowed them a more widespread distribution. This would have been a press of 5000 or more according to my sources (the guy that founded the label confirms) 

[Martyn Pitt]

3 hours ago, The Tempest said:

I’ll go for £4K - and here’s the rarely heard “ other “ side for you all 

 

I have played that out a couple of times, usually get asked what it was.

 

[Mssoulie]

£4610 plus postage....

[Wally Francis]

I'll go 6600, awesome tune.

[Linda4me]

£8500 

[Martyn Pitt]

I bought this and Carol Anderson (on Whip) from the same guy at Tony's around 94 / 95, I gave him £400 for the two.

I have seen more copies of the Cecil Washington than the Carol Anderson in sales boxes over the years.

With regard to value I would have it pegged at £3K max 

[Chalky]

14 hours ago, Soulman said:

A truly awesome record but not rare, just hard to come by. I've had five or six (possibly on my sixth) in fact I had a couple at one time I gave one away. Although I already had one I walked into John M's shop in Melton one day and he had a copy on the shelf along with an issue of "Country Girl". I bought the two for £90. There are copies in collections which I'm sure will be going nowhere soon. There's at least six residing in Carlisle alone. 

 

But not rare and in collections is pretty irrelevant when it comes to all time classics and especially one such as Cecil Washington.  Logic goes out of he window  and it is a Dj must have. We see examples on a weekly basis where he price defies all logic. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Chalky

[Winsford Soul]

2 hours ago, Martyn Pitt said:

I bought this and Carol Anderson (on Whip) from the same guy at Tony's around 94 / 95, I gave him £400 for the two.

I have seen more copies of the Cecil Washington than the Carol Anderson in sales boxes over the years.

With regard to value I would have it pegged at £3K max 

Martyn. Would that be because unless there is a step for you to stand on, you cannot see into the sales boxes.

Sorry mate couldn't resist

[Martyn Pitt]

I had got a few quid out of a divorce and set aside £500 to buy a couple of records that I would not normally spend out on - my money bought me Cecil Washington, Carol Anderson (Whip) plus with what was left a Dynamics issue I need your love and Jimmy Fraser issue of hopes and dreams, the last two were £40 each. Within about 12 months I had traded the Jimmy Fraser for Strange Neighbourhood as JF was getting hammered everywhere and The Imaginations was the better record.

 

[Steviehay]

my mate had a battered copy and about 2 years ago one came up in mint on evil bay,with post he paid just over 3,800 was this a bargain then !!!! i reckon when the asylum doors close it will be around 5,500 

[Marktsoulman]

Is this like panic buying for fuel? Will our projections force up the price?

Well I think it will be North of £5,000.....

Mark T

[Soulman]

7 hours ago, Chalky said:

But not rare and in collections is pretty irrelevant when it comes to all time classics and especially one such as Cecil Washington.  Logic goes out of he window  and it is a Dj must have. We see examples on a weekly basis where he price defies all logic. 

No record on earth is a 'DJ must have' if you have the guts to play your own preferences. As I say, I love the record, but there are better and far cheaper and much more guaranteed floor fillers IMO. 

[Andy Rix]

I'm on my second copy .. the first came from Soulman (Steve H) .. he mentioned giving one away when he upgraded his first copy but I'm sure I gave him £18 for it .. well possibly £20 .. or maybe I just said I would and then forgot to pay !!

I got my second copy from William 'Bill' Tuthill who wrote the tune and was the original lead vocalist before his efforts, deemed not to be good enough, resulted in the arrival of Cecil Washington

I was amazed that nobody had contacted Bill before and recall the unusual telephone conversation when I first called

Female answers .. Mrs Tuthill

AR .. Hello can I speak to William Tuthill please

Mrs T .. Oh I'm sorry but you can't

AR .. OK is he out .. shall I call back later

Mrs T ..no .. he's dead so won't be back .. what did you want to talk to him about

AR .. I'm sorry to hear that .. I wanted to talk to him about his music career when he lived in Detroit

Mrs T .. oh ok you want William Jr. .. I'll get you his number

So William Jr had 2 copies .. a file copy & a play copy .. after a lot of negotiation he agreed to sell the play copy and would post it once he had moved house which was imminent .. I paid the money and waited patiently .. after a few follow up calls he told me he'd lost the play copy in the house move but so would have to send the file copy

The postman knocks on the door and hands me a jiffy bag ... no cardboard or anything to protect the 45 .. just a fragile record inside a jiffy bag .. I thought here we go again this will be like another copy of the Counts on Shrine .. smashed into 6 pieces .. what sort of person would think you can send a record from the USA to the UK in a jiffy bag .. so I was prepared for the worst but it had survived intact and a mint copy to boot .. happy days

In addition I asked Bill to write out the lyrics for me .. and as a bonus the 45 is in it's 'birth sleeve' (I hate that term) .. which has written on it 'The Tuthill Family' .. John M would be so proud 

Andy

 

[Soulman]

12 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

I'm on my second copy .. the first came from Soulman (Steve H) .. he mentioned giving one away when he upgraded his first copy but I'm sure I gave him £18 for it .. well possibly £20 .. or maybe I just said I would and then forgot to pay !!

I got my second copy from William 'Bill' Tuthill who wrote the tune and was the original lead vocalist before his efforts, deemed not to be good enough, resulted in the arrival of Cecil Washington

I was amazed that nobody had contacted Bill before and recall the unusual telephone conversation when I first called

Female answers .. Mrs Tuthill

AR .. Hello can I speak to William Tuthill please

Mrs T .. Oh I'm sorry but you can't

AR .. OK is he out .. shall I call back later

Mrs T ..no .. he's dead so won't be back .. what did you want to talk to him about

AR .. I'm sorry to hear that .. I wanted to talk to him about his music career when he lived in Detroit

Mrs T .. oh ok you want William Jr. .. I'll get you his number

So William Jr had 2 copies .. a file copy & a play copy .. after a lot of negotiation he agreed to sell the play copy and would post it once he had moved house which was imminent .. I paid the money and waited patiently .. after a few follow up calls he told me he'd lost the play copy in the house move but so would have to send the file copy

The postman knocks on the door and hands me a jiffy bag ... no cardboard or anything to protect the 45 .. just a fragile record inside a jiffy bag .. I thought here we go again this will be like another copy of the Counts on Shrine .. smashed into 6 pieces .. what sort of person would think you can send a record from the USA to the UK in a jiffy bag .. so I was prepared for the worst but it had survived intact and a mint copy to boot .. happy days

In addition I asked Bill to write out the lyrics for me .. and as a bonus the 45 is in it's 'birth sleeve' (I hate that term) .. which has written on it 'The Tuthill Family' .. John M would be so proud 

Andy

 

Yeah ya tight bugger Andy.... you never did pay me LOL LOL LOl

I actually have a lot more things to add to this post both information wise and photocopy archive wise however, I am unable to say more until said auction has ended. I will up[load photos of the Prophonic Studios shortly along with other things which may be of interest.

  

[Andy Rix]

5 minutes ago, Soulman said:

Yeah ya tight bugger Andy.... you never did pay me LOL LOL LOl

I actually have a lot more things to add to this post both information wise and photocopy archive wise however, I am unable to say more until said auction has ended. I will up[load photos of the Prophonic Studios shortly along with other things which may be of interest.

  

I'll square up with you next time I see you ... if I remember

Will look forward to all of the 'additional' info .. sounds very intriguing and interesting

Trust all is well with you

Andy

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 minutes ago, Soulman said:

Yeah ya tight bugger Andy.... you never did pay me LOL LOL LOl

I actually have a lot more things to add to this post both information wise and photocopy archive wise however, I am unable to say more until said auction has ended. I will up[load photos of the Prophonic Studios shortly along with other things which may be of interest.

  

Paul Potts if you can please and any info

[Mrmick]

13 hours ago, Wally Francis said:

I'll go 6600, awesome tune.

This was my guess as well

[Soulman]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Paul Potts if you can please and any info

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Soulman
Contains personal info

[Dave Pinch]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

But not rare and in collections is pretty irrelevant when it comes to all time classics and especially one such as Cecil Washington.  Logic goes out of he window  and it is a Dj must have. We see examples on a weekly basis where he price defies all logic. 

probably a mute point i know.. up to now tho only really rare records have gone over 6k.. i wouldnt put this in the same league as the magnetics.. i wouldnt even put it on the same level as tomangoes or professionals.. i know we have the drama on facebook and SS threads weekly about records goin for more than they should but if this goes over 6k the scene will  once and for all be absolutely and finally fucked up.. and the biggest nail yet to be put in its coffin..  records unavailable anywhere for a week and people just seem to want to throw 4 figures at them

[Soulman]

1 minute ago, Dave Pinch said:

probably a mute point i know.. up to now tho only really rare records have gone over 6k.. i wouldnt put this in the same league as the magnetics.. i wouldnt even put it on the same level as tomangoes or professionals.. i know we have the drama on facebook and SS threads weekly about records goin for more than they should but if this goes over 6k the scene will  once and for all be absolutely and finally fucked up.. and the biggest nail yet to be put in its coffin..  records unavailable anywhere for a week and people just seem to want to throw 4 figures at them

Absolutely.... nuff said

[Benji]

39 minutes ago, Soulman said:

Prophonic.docxProphonic.docx 2.15 MB · 10 downloads

Didn't know the record shown in the scan (Cherry Slush - I cannot stop you) came out on Prophonics Coconut Groove. I only knew of it as a USA release. It also came out in Germany. I wonder where they licensed it from? USA? Surely not from Prophonics Coconut Groove

Edited September 30, 2021 by Benji
wrong labels

[Soulman]

Just now, Benji said:

Didn't know the record shown in the scan (Cherry Slush - I cannot stop you) came out on Prophonics. I only knew of it as a USA release. It also came out in Germany. I wonder where they licensed it from? USA? Surely not from Prophonics.

USA Records used Prophonic Studios for mastering etc and the two had quite a distribution deal (along with other labels), hence Prophonic releases ending up all over the States. Have a look at other USA releases and you will be surprised.

[Benji]

Thanks. Makes sense

[Chalky]

15 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

probably a mute point i know.. up to now tho only really rare records have gone over 6k.. i wouldnt put this in the same league as the magnetics.. i wouldnt even put it on the same level as tomangoes or professionals.. i know we have the drama on facebook and SS threads weekly about records goin for more than they should but if this goes over 6k the scene will  once and for all be absolutely and finally fucked up.. and the biggest nail yet to be put in its coffin..  records unavailable anywhere for a week and people just seem to want to throw 4 figures at them

Whilst that is true, many records that are not as rare as many think have fetched a vast sum.  Probably seen more Tomangoes and Magnetics in recent times than Cecil. It is still one of the scenes greats and thats what attracts many, not the rarity. 

[Tomangoes]

Looking at ebay a few days ago..

Some "pressings" are selling at daft prices...

Anything original and clean and in demand is open to super inflation especially in an auction!

Ed

[Frankie Crocker]

Been a shade over 2.5K for almost a week now, with a fortnight to go. Just waiting for the nibblers to get stuck in - a few low-ball bids from the optimists who reckon they might just be lucky if everyone else drops out. Expect a few big bids in the final week as the contenders duel away. As is often the case, the really serious action is during the last hour, especially the final minute.

[Dave Pinch]

8 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Been a shade over 2.5K for almost a week now, with a fortnight to go. Just waiting for the nibblers to get stuck in - a few low-ball bids from the optimists who reckon they might just be lucky if everyone else drops out. Expect a few big bids in the final week as the contenders duel away. As is often the case, the really serious action is during the last hour, especially the final minute.

most of the bids will run from 6.00pm to 6.30pm imo

[Geeselad]

TBH, I can see the future owner playing it at a local soul night and it clearing the floor, surely they'd be  gutted.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Geeselad

[Frankie Crocker]

11 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

most of the bids will run from 6.00pm to 6.30pm imo

Agreed Dave. It’s a war of attrition if there are two or more bidders sniping away at 6.00 p.m. Pity we can’t see videos of the combatants doing battle.

[Frankie Crocker]

1 hour ago, Geeselad said:

TBH, I can see the future owner playing it at a local soul night and it clearing the floor, surely they'd be  gutted.

I hope not as it’s a great record. At a soul night, there could be some punters thinking it’s just a boot, so won’t bother to dance.

[Girdwoodinc]

On 06/10/2021 at 07:46, Dave Pinch said:

most of the bids will run from 6.00pm to 6.30pm imo

I like to call that the "vinegar strokes" of the auction Dave - always looking to see who comes first 

[washlively]

Mega tune and an overiding memory of late 70's Wigan. You had a job finding space on the dance floor when Richard dropped this on by Joe Mathews as it was then. No idea what it will go for but worth every last drop for a proper one.

There are rarer records not as good for me and cheapies probably as good but this thing has class, provinance and its laid down in stone as an absolute seminal classic.

 

[Julianb]

On 06/10/2021 at 19:06, Frankie Crocker said:

I hope not as it’s a great record. At a soul night, there could be some punters thinking it’s just a boot, so won’t bother to dance.

I get asked to play this by the organiser of a local event, which I do for charity, as it is her favourite tune.

Last time I was there, another DJ played it on a 'bootleg. The organiser was absolutely furious and told him to $%#& off!