What Was The First 12"

[Guest mel brat]

I can answer the question as to the first 12" promo in the UK. As a full time DJ at the time I was one of the lucky recipients of ... "Nine times" by the Moments. It was a one sided 12" with a 7" label on it. Yvonne Marvill at Phonogram was responsible. Boy did we complain, before that a couple of Schweppes crates full of 45s was all we needed . Because of our moaning, it was reserviced as a 45 the following week LOL.

Warners were quickly on the bandwagon after that, putting two A-sides by different artists back to back for DJ use (things like Jimmy Castor's "Bertha Butt Boogie"). As far as I recall it was them who released the first UK 12" - Undisputed Truth's "You plus me = love". The old memory's not what it was, but I'm pretty positive it was that one.

Steve

But my 12" of the Moments has the full length version of the Rimshots' "Do What You Feel" on the other side!(?)

It also sports the magnificent catalogue number of 'SOUL 001' !

[Ric-tic]

Hi All,

I'm new to this site and forum having stumbled upon it by accident. Let me say I am in awe of the collective knowledge on this forum and I will learn a lot. I particularly enjoyed the Philly thread. There are some serious anoraks out there, I thought i was the only one!!

As for the first 12 inch single I would like to add my 2p worth as I am a total anorak on the early history of the 12 inch. Yes it is a 2 part answer as the first promo 12 appeared many months before the first commercial 12 hit the shops. It is undisputed that the first commercial 12 was Double Exposure ten per cent (released April 1976 and beat Tavares "Heaven.." by a fortnight!) but the first promo 12 is the subject of much debate especially as after 32 years everyone's memory isn't that good anymore!

The first 12 inch was actually a 10 inch. "I'll be holding on" by Al Downing. Legend has it that Tom Moulton finished mixing it one Friday afternoon and wanted a few copies pressed to test in the clubs over the weekend. His engineer told him they had run out of 7 inch plates and only had 10 inch ones left. So they pressed it on that. Tom recalled it looked kind of silly as the first press took up so little room on the plate and he asked his engineer if he could make it bigger. His engineer, Jose Rodriguez spread the grooves out and adjusted the level to +6 and repressed it. When they played it back and heard how loud it sounded they were knocked out and thus the 12 inch single was born.

I believe an earlier poster mentioned there were around 20 commercial 12's from a year earlier, 1975. Not so, the true total of 12's from 1975 is 60-70 but none were commercial pressings, as that distinction belongs to Double Exposure, they were all promo's. I personally own around 60 promo 12's from 1975. Various records have been put forward in this thread but most informed opinion is that the white label version of "Swearin to God" by Frankie Valli (released July 1975) was the first promo 12 (not to be confused with the commercial press released on private stock records a year later in 1976). The rarest of these promo's is Free Man by South Shore Commission, the first 12 on the scepter/wand label. This was issued as an Acetate only and I would therefore guess that less than 10 copies of this were pressed. I have never seen one for sale and wouldn't like to speculate how much this cut is worth. The Calhoon is a very early 12 as well though.

The marboo track someone else mentioned is a red herring. Although it says 1974 on the label this was the year the track was recorded not the year the 12 was released. I have a 12 inch single with 1973 on the label that actually wasn't released until 1979!

The first Motown 12 was "Love Machine" by The Miracles from 1975. Very rare and collectable. Another very rare and collectable Motown 12 from 1975 is a favourite of mine "Don't walk away from Love" by David Ruffin.

Spanish Hustle was released as a promo 12 in 1975 (Polydor 006) and is rare. Beware the represses being passed off as 1975 originals and sold for big $$ on E-Bay!!

Atlantic brough out 7-8 12's in 1975, my favourite is "Keep Holding on" by Ace Spectrum (DSKO 60).....

The first Scepter promo (other than the Free Man acetate) was Secrets "baby Save Me". The Bobby Moore cut "call me" has a later catalogue number than Secrets (12405 v 11288).

The first UK 12 is also a tough one. There were a handful of promo UK 12's released in 1975, these are now very rare. The Ernie Bush track mentioned in an earlier post is one and others that spring to mind are "Supernatural thing" by Ben E King and "Hijack" by Herbie Mann. The Rimshots 12 was 1976 but again is pretty rare. Another is "When love is New" by Arthur Prysock a 1 sided promo on Polydor from 1976. A mate of mine once had around 15 copies of Candi Staton, he got them from Fred Dove who gave them away..!!!

"Don't take away the music" by Tavares did come out on promo 12, I have a copy. It is much rarer than the promo 12 of "Heaven..".

Another really early one is "Tornado" by The Wiz. This was released in late 1974/early 75 as an extended play 7 inch single on Atlantic (DSKO52) and I have a 12 inch Acetate copy from 1975. This could even pre date the Frankie Valli as there are probably only around half a dozen copies of this in existance if that many, and perhaps, because there were so few in existence, it may have slipped under the radar?

Hope this helps....

Karlos

spot on carlos

marboo was actually eary 76 it preceeded silver convention get up and boogie re tornado the wiz, in that small series atlantic did of 33 rpm 7 inchers the two before this release were from 74 DSKO 50 BARRABAS MAD LOVE

DSKO 51 HOT CHOCOLATE DISCO QUEEN

now IF there were also 12" acetates of these ,they really would be in the running!

all this talk of candi statonyoung hearts run free i did a scout round ebay today and found a badly listed copy [in old skool] hardly any views and one bid at £2.00, i knew it was a proxy so i stuck someting on it, the guys proxy was only £ 3.70 so i won it for that-result!

[jonbuck]

Not sure if this has been covered before. People used to say the it was Double Exposure-Ten Percent. But over the years I have heard it sugested that there may have been others?

Came Across This ....

The 12-inch [30 cm] single gramophone record came into existence with the advent of disco music in the 1970s. The first 12" single was actually a 10" acetate used by a mix engineer (Jose Rodriquez) in need of a Friday night test copy for famed disco mixer Tom Moulton. As no 7" acetates could be found, a 10" blank was used. Mr. Moulton, feeling silly with a large disc that only had a few centimeters of groove on it, asked Rodriguez to re-cut it so the grooves looked more spread out. Because of the wider spacing of the grooves, a higher overall sound level was acquired. This was immediately noticed to give a more favorable sound for discotheque play. Mr. Moulton's position as the premiere mixer and "fix it man" for pop singles ensured that this fortunate accident would instantly become industry practice. This would perhaps have been a natural evolution: As the songs became much longer than the average pop song but the DJ in the club wanted a sufficient sound level, the format would surely have had to be changed from the 175 mm (7 inch) single eventually. It's also worth noting that the visual spacing of the grooves on the 12" assisted the dj in locating the approximate area of the "breaks" on the discs surface (without having to listen as he dropped and re-dropped the stylus to find the right point). A quick study of any DJ's favorite discs will reveal mild wear in the "break points" on the discs surface that can clearly be seen by the naked eye and further eases the "cueing" (a club DJ's tone-arm cartridge will be heavily weighted and mild wear will seldom spoil the sound quality). Many record pools would issue such collections as Ultimix with deliberately visualised groove separations (the record was cut with narrow and wider spacings that could be seen on the surface, marking the mix points on the often multi-song discs).

More hear @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-inch_single

Job Nuck

[Guest]

Damn fine Topic!!

that's my 2cents..

[Guest]

But my 12" of the Moments has the full length version of the Rimshots' "Do What You Feel" on the other side!(?)

It also sports the magnificent catalogue number of 'SOUL 001' !

Hmmm. Always thought that the double sider was serviced a few weeks later. But as I said, the old memory's not what it was, and you could well be right. Unfortunately I got rid of it years back so I cant check. But "Nine times" was definitely the first promo 12". I even phoned an old colleague from that time who was on all the mailing lists. The answer came straight back, "it was that bloody thing on All Platinum" LOL.

[Girthdevon]

all this talk of candi statonyoung hearts run free i did a scout round ebay today and found a badly listed copy [in old skool] hardly any views and one bid at £2.00, i knew it was a proxy so i stuck someting on it, the guys proxy was only £ 3.70 so i won it for that-result!

Bugger me, you did well there !!!!

Girf

[karlos1964]

My copy of the moments has the Rimshots on the other side but that's not to say the Rimshots track wasn't released earlier as a one sided 12...

On the subject of the Atlantic DSKO...there are a few 12 inch Acetate's in circulation that have Hot Chocolate's "Disco Queen" on one side and "Tornado" on the other side. A collector friend of mine has once and he swears he got this in late 1974.. However I hooked out my 1 sided Acetate copy of "Tornado" over the weekend it (rather helpfully) has a date on it of 10/3/75 but as it's American I presume that's 3 October not 10 March as they do their dates the wrong way round. I can't imagine there would be a year between the double sided Acetate and the single sided one which kind of blows the "late 1974" theroy out the window. In any case 3 October is later than Frankie Valli by around 3 months..

Tom Moulton has stated that the first 12 inch they pressed intentially was "So much for love" by Moment of Truth and would have thought this was done soon after the Al Downing track but this wasn't released commercially until 1976 and I've never heard of any promo or Acetate of this track from 1975 but that's not to say it doesn't exist of course and anyway Tom's word is good enough for me!

[harpo1]

Ca-the-drals was very early, with a pat lundy track on the other side with a different lable, check it out Dave i'm sure Marc and Dawn have my old copy.

First 2 uk 12" i bought were t connection and Garnett Mimms around 75/76

Harpo

on the Tom Moulton interview he talks about cutting a Don Downing track on an lp blank as they hsad no 7" available and being knocked out by the sound quality...that must have somebearing????????

Edited March 12, 2007 by harpo1

[Guest mel brat]

Ca-the-drals was very early, with a pat lundy track on the other side with a different lable, check it out Dave i'm sure Marc and Dawn have my old copy.

First 2 uk 12" i bought were t connection and Garnett Mimms around 75/76

Harpo

on the Tom Moulton interview he talks about cutting a Don Downing track on an lp blank as they hsad no 7" available and being knocked out by the sound quality...that must have somebearing????????

Both T-Connection (TK) and Garnett Mimms (ARISTA) were 1977 releases. Of that I'm certain.

[sjay]

Just looked back thru my 12"ers monday after merry go round buddah disco 101 1975 us promo looks like one of the earliest of mine.

Steve

[Souljazera]

ALL THIS INFO IS IN A SUPERB BOOK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE DISCO SCENE IN THE U.S WHICH FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CANT REMEMBER THE TITLE OF....... :angry: DOH........ !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think the book is LAST NIGHT A DJ SAVED MY LIFE written by brewster and tope .....or love saves the day from memory ...can be checked out on million dollar disco website...think hes on here as abagofsulph!!!!

[Epic]

Just looked back thru my 12"ers monday after merry go round buddah disco 101 1975 us promo looks like one of the earliest of mine.

Steve

My copy of "Joyce" - Papa John Creach (Buddah) is a demo & has the serial number DISCO 100. - Year of release 1975.

Edited March 15, 2007 by epic

[Guest]

This on topic I think...does anyone have The Choice Four album on RCA with their version of 'Two Different Worlds' on it ? Whats the timing? It's on the flip of the UK 12" of 'Come Down To Earth' and I need to know if the 12" is a remix.

Ta!

[Robin S]

ALL THIS INFO IS IN A SUPERB BOOK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE DISCO SCENE IN THE U.S WHICH FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CANT REMEMBER THE TITLE OF....... :angry: DOH........ !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think the book is LAST NIGHT A DJ SAVED MY LIFE written by brewster and tope .....or love saves the day from memory ...can be checked out on million dollar disco website...think hes on here as abagofsulph!!!!

Tony, "Love Saves The day" by Tim Lawrence (Duke ISBN 0-8223-3198-5) is pretty definitive. ("A history of American dance culture 1970 -79") A labour of love. He's supposed to be doing a follow up covering the 80's/90's - Can't wait!

[karlos1964]

The Joyce track was the first 12 on Buddah it's quite a nice instrumental, Monday after was the second...

[Barry]

This on topic I think...does anyone have The Choice Four album on RCA with their version of 'Two Different Worlds' on it ? Whats the timing? It's on the flip of the UK 12" of 'Come Down To Earth' and I need to know if the 12" is a remix.

Ta!

Have been playing this out again of late.

[karlos1964]

A very old topic but I have some new info that blows everything out of the water. I recently acquired a 12 inch single that was released in....March 1970..some 5+ years before anyone had previously thought...!

[Ric-tic]

1 hour ago, karlos1964 said:

A very old topic but I have some new info that blows everything out of the water. I recently acquired a 12 inch single that was released in....March 1970..some 5+ years before anyone had previously thought...!

Pray tell..

[Steviehay]

1 hour ago, Ric-tic said:

Pray tell..

Double tell ?? 

[Cunnie]

2 hours ago, Ric-tic said:

Pray tell..

Buddy Fyte - Glad Rag Doll, Cycle - Ampex Records, 1970.

[Guest Shufflin]

https://www.discogs.com/Buddy-Fite-For-Once-In-My-Life-Glad-Rag-Doll/release/12340028

sold for £16 last year

[The Yank]

That might have been the 1st 12" single but if you look at the vinyl, instead of spreading out the

grooves all across the record, they pressed it up so it looks like one album cut and a lot of blank space - 

[Geeselad]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

That might have been the 1st 12" single but if you look at the vinyl, instead of spreading out the

grooves all across the record, they pressed it up so it looks like one album cut and a lot of blank space - 

I'd say that would probably disqualify it really. It may be literally the first, but not technically. There is a point to pressing a 12 inch single, to enhance sound quality.  

[Blackpoolsoul]

[Tlscapital]

On 04/01/2020 at 08:59, Blackpoolsoul said:

Drifting from the OP but interesting subject on it's own; 'the dismissal for the 45 rpm 7" format' by a generation of "new/young" consumers or "old/previous" consumers habits. My parents were both born after World War II and I remember browsing through my mom's teen records, which featured mostly 45's. My dad being American born and raise, he got to listen to his music (better than here in Belgium or Europe for that matter) on the radio...

But past and beyond 1970 (me birthday) and onward, I remember them buying, having and listening to LP's only indeed. The fact that this article raise in the consumer's lazy approach to phono playback is so relevant to the then evolving phono gear industry as well. Where the advent of "advanced" mechanism in turntables with more and more complex circuitry and semi or even fully automatic command systems evidently confort the consumer laziness.

This fact about the spindle hole size (*like 'Butch' use to say; if it doesn't have a big hole it's no good ) being part of the 7" slow down in sales indicates the laziness factor inherent of the then "modern" consumerism. That which we all know or admit (or not...) is even worse today. Hence they're also talking of the 'needle' swap need that was "problematic" to get around by many (even phono gear manufacturer's) from the "obsolete" 'MONO' to the 'STEREO' hegemony transition.

But I must admit that we also must take into account the fact that this article underline; the customer's satisfaction fulfillment with a (future foreseen) color printed picture sleeve... Like the LP 10+ songs compiled to please any fan with a hunger of "it all". Then the avail of the 'concept' album and the prime release and promotion of the albums before the singles. Then the dismissal of 45's for cheap starting groups on independent labels. All of that which is why I looked the other way since a teen seeking for the 'old' and unwanted musics and formats.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Steve G]

On 04/01/2020 at 07:59, Blackpoolsoul said:

Interesting and puts a different dimension on things. 

[Dukeofburgundy]

The first 12" I remember owning  was Blue Magic ' Magic of the Blue' c 1975. I didn't have it long. It got pilfered when I took it to a dance in Leyton . I have also seen an Alton Ellis Jamaican 45 on 12" from about 1971. 

 

[Dukeofburgundy]

On 22/02/2007 at 17:39, Guest said:

The first UK 12" was the release in 1977 , of " Do Ya Wanna Get Funky With Me " ( 9.13 ) by Peter Brown on TK STKR 6009 .

Malc Burton

I'm not sure that's right. I remember this cut by the Olympic Runners featuring George chandler being sold as the first British 12" , at least in London anyway. Robbie Vincent played it a few times.

 

 

 

[Tlscapital]

20 minutes ago, Firecrest said:

The first 12" I remember owning  was Blue Magic ' Magic of the Blue' c 1975. I didn't have it long. It got pilfered when I took it to a dance in Leyton . I have also seen an Alton Ellis Jamaican 45 on 12" from about 1971. 

 

Caution with those Jamaican 12". The labels pressed continuously they gear and like said here before, many of those USA/UK 12" showing 1975 tracks where actually pressed later. Giving the original pressing date of the first release on 7" but not the factual for the release date of the said 12".

That "fact" of Jamaican 12" being old is a classic but only "rumors". The DJ's commonly used 10" lacquers to DJ out and 'toast/talk' over unique mixes made by the producers for that matter. And 12" lacquers as well. But they were only that. Not the same thing in my understanding of it all.

[Geeselad]

5 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Caution with those Jamaican 12". The labels pressed continuously they gear and like said here before, many of those USA/UK 12" showing 1975 tracks where actually pressed later. Giving the original pressing date of the first release on 7" but not the factual for the release date of the said 12".

That "fact" of Jamaican 12" being old is a classic but only "rumors". The DJ's commonly used 10" lacquers to DJ out and 'toast/talk' over unique mixes made by the producers for that matter. And 12" lacquers as well. But they were only that. Not the same thing in my understanding of it all.

Lacquers? Are they the same thing as an acetate?

[Tlscapital]

Yes, in Jamaica they use to (at least) call them lacquers, acetates, one offs or more commonly 'dub plates'. And by some courageous DJ's they were played with resin styluses that were to be swapped off quickly due to their soft constituency. The resin styluses were evidently less damaging to the groove even though they would leave their 'grease' into the groove of the record after each play that would induce a swipe clean afterward as well. Although it sounded amazing, that didn't last...

If those DJ's lacquers records survived through the "rough" DJ handling, carrying and natural drying-out, they are still considered by many as true "collectors" items. With diamond or steel styluses the groove of those "acetates" will wear much faster. Most find their ways through the bins after they had their 'slice' of life. Nowadays some propose carvers that ar just carved "cut-ins" on plastic vinyl one-offsl that might have longer life span but logically have a less good mastering process to none actually.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Ric-tic]

First UK 12” singles from CBS/Philadelphia International from May 77 this is the shop promotional poster, possibly the first shop poster to promote a 12” single

[Soulstrutter]

1 hour ago, Ric-tic said:

First UK 12” singles from CBS/Philadelphia International from May 77 this is the shop promotional poster, possibly the first shop poster to promote a 12” single

I have both of these .... but for some reason it sticks in my mind (don't know why but must have read it at the time B&S / Black Music) that The Emotions - Flowers was the first in UK. https://www.discogs.com/The-Emotions-Flowers/release/367381 states Aug 77 and the listing for Peter Brown states 1978 (but of course Discogs is often incorrect)  https://www.discogs.com/Peter-Brown-Do-Ya-Wanna-Get-Funky-With-Me/release/314609

[Geeselad]

On 09/01/2020 at 01:06, Tlscapital said:

Yes, in Jamaica they use to (at least) call them lacquers, acetates, one offs or more commonly 'dub plates'. And by some courageous DJ's they were played with resin styluses that were to be swapped off quickly due to their soft constituency. The resin styluses were evidently less damaging to the groove even though they would leave their 'grease' into the groove of the record after each play that would induce a swipe clean afterward as well. Although it sounded amazing, that didn't last...

If those DJ's lacquers records survived through the "rough" DJ handling, carrying and natural drying-out, they are still considered by many as true "collectors" items. With diamond or steel styluses the groove of those "acetates" will wear much faster. Most find their ways through the bins after they had their 'slice' of life. Nowadays some propose carvers that ar just carved "cut-ins" on plastic vinyl one-offsl that might have longer life span but logically have a less good mastering process to none actually.

Thanks, that's really insightful. Much abliged.n

[Soulwolf]

This is a good thread and bugging the old grey cells. I seem to recall an article in Black Echoes regarding the first disco 12 inch coming out, this was sometime in 1976, the title of the 12 Inch  was something like Get Off Your A** and dance. There is Get off your Aahh and Dance by Foxy but I didnt think that was the group.

The first 12 inch I bought was from Jumbo Records in Leeds - Undisputed Truth You + Me = Love  the same year, for between 70 and 90 pence. Still got it today.