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Pete S

The Top 3 Northern Sounds In The Uk Are

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and I know this for a fact, going by the amount of people who ask if I can get them it:

Far and away the most popular currently is the appalling

FIVE ROYALES - CATCH THAT TEARDROP

closely followed by

BILL BUSH - I'M WAITING

which I quite like, very catchy tune, then the joint third most requested are

DEON JACKSON - SOME DAY THE SUN WILL SHINE

and KARMELLO BROOKS - TELL ME BABY

both of which I believe are fantastic records.

So there you go. The public decided, not me...

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Far and away the most popular currently is the appalling

FIVE ROYALES - CATCH THAT TEARDROP

The harmonies are brilliant. The trumpet has just the right amount of brass. The guitar comes in at just the right place. The conceit of the lyric is unusually clever for a Northern record.

Edited by Billy Freemantle

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The harmonies are brilliant. The trumpet has just  the right amount of brass. The guitar comes in at just the right place. The conceit  of the lyric is  unusually clever for a Northern record.

link

But it's 5 years too early to be taken seriously...

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But it's 5 years too early to be taken seriously...

link

Yes. It is early. And it surprises someone like me that had a long, long time away from Northern Soul that this is now considered Northern. But it pleases me too because it's a great song. It shows NS has grown up and changed.

What date is this record?

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Yes. It is early. And it surprises someone like me that had a long, long time away from Northern Soul that this is now considered Northern. But it pleases me too because it's a great song. It shows NS has grown up and changed.

What date is this record?

link

I found myself in the same situation when I started going to 'nighters again. I love this earlier music, although Maggie sometimes says "Derek that's rock & roll". I think I've said before on here it's a very thin line nowadays between r&r / r&b.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that CTT was the first openly r&b record to be played on the "soul scene" early '80s

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I'm sure I've read somewhere that CTT was the first openly r&b record to be played on the "soul scene" early '80s

I can remember "Baby Scratch My back" - Slim Harpo, "Wang Dang Doodle" - Koko Taylor and "Grits Aint Groceries" - Little Milton and "Whose Cheating Who" - Little Milton being played at the Wheel in the late 60s. I think that all these are R&B. I wonder if the Wheel hadn't closed, would the history of the Soul of the North been any different. Would we have avoided the worst excesses of Wigan? I can't remember any out and out pop rubbish getting played at Whitworth Street.

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Pete - What are current values?

Any chance of posting some sound files?

link

No doubt Pete will give you his realistic values.... but these are taken from Ovenchip's book....

FIVE ROYALES - CATCH THAT TEARDROP - Home Of The Bues.... sold for £500.... ABC £200....

BILL BUSH - I'M WAITING - Ronn.... £1000

DEON JACKSON - SOME DAY THE SUN WILL SHINE - Not listed....

KARMELLO BROOKS - TELL ME BABY - Milestone.... £1000

Don't know what Tim Brown's book lists at.... anyone ?....

Over to Pete for his valuations....

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Yes. It is early. And it surprises someone like me that had a long, long time away from Northern Soul that this is now considered Northern. But it pleases me too because it's a great song. It shows NS has grown up and changed.

What date is this record?

link

Agree wid ya Billy, I too think Northern has "grown up and changed" but I've felt this was driven be the need to find new tunes. delving further back into the "birth of soul". It's important to me now, and that's why I can embrace tunes like "I Cant Stand It" The Seminoles, "In Between Tears" Lenny Miles, "With All Thats In Me" Marv Johnson, Somebody Elses Sweetheart" The Wanderers, "Kidnapper" Jewel & the Rubies, and the like. Once over, my blinkered view of soul would never let me do that.

Think 1st issue of 5 Royales on Home Of Blues was from either 1960 or '61.

Steve

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Deon Jackson only exists on an acetate someone has I think, all others play it of dub plates or similar, i.e. not the original, regardless of what you might have heard. I think it is not one of his best tunes, too poppy and chunky IMO, plus the sound quality was apalling on the acetates/dubs I heard. "That's What You Do To Me" is much better IMO, great northern soul and relatively under-played still I think.

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Deon Jackson only exists on an acetate someone has I think, all others play it of dub plates or similar, i.e. not the original, regardless of what you might have heard. I think it is not one of his best tunes, too poppy and chunky IMO, plus the sound quality was apalling on the acetates/dubs I heard. "That's What You Do To Me" is much better IMO, great northern soul and relatively under-played still I think.

link

Carl Fortnum has or had the original studeo acetate of Deon Jackson. Keep meaning to look at Keith Moneys as he swears it's genuine, got it from Pete Lowry I think. The rest are deffo cuts. The origianl acetaqte the quality isn't that good if I remember rightly.

Edited by chalky

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Carl Fortnum has or had the original studeo acetate of Deonm Jackson.  Keep meaning to look at Keith Moneys as he swears it's genuine, got it from Pete Lowry I think.  The rest are deffo cuts.  The origianl acetaqte the quality isn't that good if I remember rightly.

link

I though Jim O'Hara was first with this and that was a cut from Ron Murphy tape , dont think any acetate was mentioned by Ron Murphy and he should know. Kitch may know more about this, his memory is generally better than mines, must be because he is younger!! :thumbsup:

Cheers

Jock

Edited by jocko

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I though Jim O'Hara was first with this and that was a cut from Ron Murphy tape , dont think any acetate was mentioned by Ron Murphy and he should know. Kitch may know more about this, his memory is generally better than mines, must be because he is younger!!  :thumbsup:

Cheers

Jock

link

Always remember this from Gary Spencer.

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"That's What You Do To Me" is much better IMO, great northern soul and relatively under-played still I think.

link

Good call.... been playing this one a while now.... great like you say :shades: .... I know my mate Steve M (bladeforlife) was reminded of it from its airings and now also plays it out :thumbsup: ....

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Good call.... been playing this one a while now.... great like you say :P .... I know my mate Steve M (bladeforlife) was reminded of it from its airings and now also plays it out :thumbsup: ....

link

Yep, brilliant tune :shades: I remember Phil Blacknell playing this a lot in North Wales in late 80s/early 90s. As regards Someday The Sun... the sound on all I've heard has been dodgy and yes they are all acetate copies from 1 studio acetate (or tape - dunno Jocko).

Rich

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Well the folks I did it for all reckon that the recording of Some Day The Sun Will Shine is the best they've heard - I know Mick played it at the 100 Club off one I did. But I think you're right, it's a total one off.

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and I know this for a fact, going by the amount of people who ask if I can get them it:

Far and away the most popular currently is the appalling

FIVE ROYALES - CATCH THAT TEARDROP

closely followed by

BILL BUSH - I'M WAITING

which I quite like, very catchy tune, then the joint third most requested are

DEON JACKSON - SOME DAY THE SUN WILL SHINE

and KARMELLO BROOKS - TELL ME BABY

both of which I believe are fantastic records.

So there you go.  The public decided, not me...

link

Some good tracks there but its endless 3 come to my mind the attractions-you don't know boy Betty moore-speed up on wand and Bonnie Herman-hush don't cry-columbia oh by the way I pick up voice box-I want it backI think its on loma £1.50 from soul bowl early 70's it must worth something now

Billy

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Good call.... been playing this one a while now.... great like you say :shades: .... I know my mate Steve M (bladeforlife) was reminded of it from its airings and now also plays it out :thumbsup: ....

link

thats what you do ....

would feature in alltime favs if ever did list,

flip had plays, didnt do a lot for me but may be someones cup of tea

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Some good tracks there but its endless 3 come to my mind the attractions-you don't know boy Betty moore-speed up on wand and Bonnie Herman-hush don't cry-columbia

Billy

link

Good call Billy, pity you don't live near York, I will probably spin all three at the Holgate Soul Club tonite! (Anyone in the vicinity, get yourself there, a cracking good night!)

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Good call Billy, pity you don't live near York, I will probably spin all three at the Holgate Soul Club tonite! (Anyone in the vicinity, get yourself there, a cracking good night!)

link

trev

can you post up details of holgate in events - moved standing flyer out of current gallery as wasnt sure if still valid

ta

mike

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and I know this for a fact, going by the amount of people who ask if I can get them it:

Far and away the most popular currently is the appalling

FIVE ROYALES - CATCH THAT TEARDROP

closely followed by

BILL BUSH - I'M WAITING

which I quite like, very catchy tune, then the joint third most requested are

DEON JACKSON - SOME DAY THE SUN WILL SHINE

and KARMELLO BROOKS - TELL ME BABY

both of which I believe are fantastic records.

So there you go.  The public decided, not me...

link

Interesting list pete, simply because it is not what I would have expected. Obviously peoples tastes are now moving away from the traditional Northern Soul top 500, which can only be good for the scene long term. Obviously there will always be those amongst us are set fast in 1978, but it is refreshing to see some people moving forward.

JM

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by the way I pick up voice box-I want it backI think its on loma £1.50 from soul bowl early 70's it must worth something now

Great tune. :thumbsup: It's about £15 now.

Rumoured to be the same group as Charades on MGM/Okeh etc.

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Why?

link

It was the "too early to be taken seriously" comment that I found amusing, considering how far back in time I search for good music. Nevermind, it was nothing serious. :thumbsup:

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Pete - What are current values?

Any chance of posting some sound files?

link

Five Royals is about £300 at moment, although I've just watched one make $851 (£500) on eBay before it was pulled off.

Bill Bush is worth a grand until the idiots who buy them realise that it's not rare... :P

Don't know Deon Jackson I'm afraid - soundbyte anyone?

Karmello Brooks, probably a thousand quid, saw a cracked on eBay make about £500, so make from that what you will...

Voicebox, about £20 for a demo, £25 for an issue, so not a lot, but a brill track! :P

Will put some soundbytes together and post up in a bit :thumbsup:

Billy :shades:

Edited by billytheboot

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It was the "too early to be taken seriously" comment that I found amusing, considering how far back in time I search for good music. Nevermind, it was nothing serious.  :thumbsup:

link

Well I don't know, I just don't like the sound of these kind of records, I think it's the string arrangements - I like the r&b things without strings...

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DEON JACKSON- SUN WILL SHINE - IS A ATLANTIC ACETATE THAT'S BEAT REALLY BADLY , WHEN I WORKED AT BROWNY'S KOPPELL PLAYED IT ME OVER THE PHONE AND ASKED IF I THOUGHT IT'D GO , I TOOK THE ORIGINAL CUTS (4) OFF THE ORIGINAL ACETATE AND I THINK IT WAS SOLD TO NIGE PARKER - CAN'T REMEMBER I THINK THEY HAD CUTS OF IT LIKE I DID ( CARL AND GARY) .

NOT SURE WHERE IT RESIDES NOW- BUT REGARDLESS IT'SONLY JUST PLAYABLE !!

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"Catch That Teardrop" by the 5 Royales positively dates from 1962.

Don't think the De-Lites is as early as 1958 - probably more 1964-65. Apparently, the Cuppy label was owned by Bill Haley, and was named after his wife. Dunno about the "Cuppy" nickname though - guess shes was probably a 38DD or something!

Edited by Gene-R

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"Catch That Teardrop" by the 5 Royales positively dates from 1962.

Don't think the De-Lites is as early as 1958 - probably more 1964-65.  Apparently, the Cuppy label was owned by Bill Haley, and was named after his wife.  Dunno about the "Cuppy" nickname though - guess shes was probably a 38DD or something!

link

Does anyone know of any other releases on the label? Only two I know of are Delites and Thornton Sisters, but I haven't really being looking... :thumbsup:

Actually never heard Thornton Sisters, so has anyone got a soundbyte they wouldn't ming sharing?

Billy :shades:

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"Catch That Teardrop" by the 5 Royales positively dates from 1962.

Don't think the De-Lites is as early as 1958 - probably more 1964-65.  Apparently, the Cuppy label was owned by Bill Haley, and was named after his wife.  Dunno about the "Cuppy" nickname though - guess shes was probably a 38DD or something!

link

:shades::P:P

Looks a nice L.Allen matey.

Ady.

:thumbsup:

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Well the folks I did it for all reckon that the recording of Some Day The Sun Will Shine is the best they've heard - I know Mick played it at the 100 Club off one I did.  But I think you're right, it's a total one off.

link

========

i spun this at worcester off a dub the other week

ive always loved 'ooh baby' and still do and TWYDTM but the above 45 is fantastic IMO

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DEON JACKSON- SUN WILL SHINE - IS A ATLANTIC ACETATE THAT'S BEAT REALLY BADLY , WHEN I WORKED AT BROWNY'S KOPPELL PLAYED IT ME OVER THE PHONE AND ASKED IF I THOUGHT IT'D GO , I TOOK THE ORIGINAL CUTS (4)  OFF THE ORIGINAL ACETATE AND I THINK IT WAS SOLD TO NIGE PARKER  - CAN'T REMEMBER I THINK THEY HAD CUTS OF IT LIKE I DID ( CARL AND GARY) .

NOT SURE WHERE IT RESIDES NOW- BUT REGARDLESS IT'SONLY JUST PLAYABLE !!

link

Thats interesting Andy, chatted with Colin over this also as thought Jim O'Hara had this first, he didnt really dj though so times are all mixed up in my mind (wonder why :lol: ).

Do definitely remember though Ron Murphy telling him it was tape only, another myth blown!!

Jim also got the Metros cut off RM, this was due to come out on Murphys Gold Soul I think, take it that and the Deon Jackson were from different sources then, always assumed the same.

Oh the mysterys that have unravelled in the last 10 years or so, its amazing really.

Cheers

Jock

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Good call Billy, pity you don't live near York, I will probably spin all three at the Holgate Soul Club tonite! (Anyone in the vicinity, get yourself there, a cracking good night!)

link

Trevski it's nice to see someone with taste

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Is that the ABC issue or House Of The Blues?

Both were released in 1962.

And the original label is Home Of The Blues.

Edited by Sebastian

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Trevski it's nice to see someone with taste

link

Thanks Billy! :D

The attractions- "You don't know boy' -JuneBug. Similar, in many ways, to Rhonda Davis- Duke, yet still relatively unplayed/unknown. I have had one of these since '93, and have played it out on many occasions, but still a 'sleeper' IMHO. Not seen that often either. If you get to the Wilton aniversary in March, remind me, and I'll spin it for you! thumbsup.gif

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The Attractions was played and hyped by quite a few people in the UK maybe 3 - 4 years ago, and back then it peaked price wise at around £200 - £250, seems to have fallen steadily since then to around £100 - £150. Probably due for a 'revival' and when the people who always seem to get to hear everything 2 - 3 years after everyone else get to hear it, it will probably become a £700+ 45 overnight in a now typical second or third 'wave of demand'. thumbsup.gif

Edited by christian h.

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Great thread this. Looking at Pete's list of the most indemand records, it seems that for something to catch on and get onto the wants lists of people it has to be well and truly hammered - Bill Bush is surely played out by now but people obviously still want to own it and hear it. I reckon the bulk of the demand for such records comes from returnees broadening their tastes. One the one hand, one can call this progress - these are 'todays mainstream biggies' and don't not hammered oldies (as such).

You could also say that people that too many on the scene seem happy to replace the played out records of one era with those of another. People still have an alarming tendency to chase the same records just as they become popular. Each to their own I suppose.

Current indemand records (and quality sounds) like Ralph Graham on UPLOOK and The Sensations - Demanding Man are well on their way to becoming played out. Needn't be the case !

Hammy

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Great thread this. Looking at Pete's list of the most indemand records, it seems that for something to catch on and get onto the wants lists of people it has to be well and truly hammered - Bill Bush is surely played out by now but people obviously still want to own it and hear it. I reckon the bulk of the demand for such records comes from returnees broadening their tastes. One the one hand, one can call this progress - these are 'todays mainstream biggies' and don't not hammered oldies (as such).

You could also say that people that too many on the scene seem happy to replace the played out records of one era with those of another. People still have an alarming tendency to chase the same records just as they become popular. Each to their own I suppose.

Current indemand records (and quality sounds) like Ralph Graham on UPLOOK and The Sensations - Demanding Man are well on their way to becoming played out. Needn't be the case !

Hammy

link

Like you say Hammy too many wanna be DJ's happy to chase the same records as everyone else, throw money at records like Bill Bush which in essence should be more like £150 or less due to the number of copies about. Time we had more individuals, with their own identity given a chance and not just those with the same big money (often over priced) indemanders as everyone else.

Ralph Graham biggie for Colin Law and I think Jim Tennant (is that right Jock?) around '87.

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"Catch That Teardrop" by the 5 Royales positively dates from 1962.

Don't think the De-Lites is as early as 1958 - probably more 1964-65.  Apparently, the Cuppy label was owned by Bill Haley, and was named after his wife.  Dunno about the "Cuppy" nickname though - guess shes was probably a 38DD or something!

link

:lol: The label was named after his 2nd wife,

Barbara Joan Cupchak, and I assume the nickname derives from her surname, not the size of her womanhood whistling.gif

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Like you say Hammy too many wanna be DJ's happy to chase the same records as everyone else, throw money at records like Bill Bush which in essence should be more like £150 or less due to the number of copies about.  Time we had more individuals, with their own identity given a chance and not just those with the same big money (often over priced) indemanders as everyone else.

Ralph Graham biggie for Colin Law and I think Jim Tennant (is that right Jock?) around '87.

link

Yes at least that, certainly Colin had this, got of Jim Wensoira when he was selling covered as Gene Mcdaniels I think, Jim had only played it a few times, became a monster for COlin, same time as Kim ?? I Saw You last Night which Colin found in States, I covered as Valerie Simpson and it was monster for him, have heard this is getting a few spins now.

Cheers

Jock

PS Agree with Chalky and Hammys comments, especially too many djs, I am astounded by the ratio, even from my distant involvement these days.

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Yes at least that, certainly Colin had this, got of Jim Wensoira when he was selling covered as Gene Mcdaniels I think, Jim had only played it a few times, became a monster for COlin, same time as Kim ?? I Saw You last Night which Colin found in States, I covered as Valerie Simpson and it was monster for him, have heard this is getting a few spins now.

Cheers

Jock 

PS Agree with Chalky and Hammys comments, especially too many djs, I am astounded by the ratio, even from my distant involvement these days.

link

I think they both had it covered as different artists initially. Colin certainly played it at the Winding Wheel covered as Tommy Navarro, sure there is a review in Shades Of Soul from sometime in '87 where this is mentioed. Later both covered as same but thought it was covered as Jimmy/James Conwell.

Having trouble remembering the Kim (?) disc whistling.gif

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I think they both had it covered as different artists initially.  Colin certainly played it at the Winding Wheel covered as Tommy Navarro, sure there is a review in Shades Of Soul from sometime in '87 where this is mentioed.  Later both covered as same but thought it was covered as Jimmy/James Conwell.

Having trouble remembering the Kim (?) disc  whistling.gif

link

You are right (again :lol: ) , SJST was covered as James Conwell, the flip side however Jim W had covered as Gene McDaniels, cant remember if Colin played that out, will ask tonight and also the name of the other disc.

Cheers

Jock

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