Ian Dewhirst Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 And following on from the Soussan/Benny Curtis "Dirty Hearts" dillemma...... Have a listen - see attached. You can imagine everyone thinking that Simon was the vocalist! It sounds exactly like a Soussan produced tailor-made Northern stomper with him on vocals - even the phrasing is exactly how he talks LOL....... Ian D 02_Dirty_Hearts.mp3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Matt Male Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 This is an amazing thread. The encounters are so well written and so vivid they are running through my head like scenes from a film. It's brilliant material for screenplay writers. This story should be made into a film i reckon, starting with Malc Burton's encounter with Soussan in 1969. I know he's disliked by many, but what a fascinating character. It sounds like with his ego SS would be more than happy to give permission to have a film of his life made... Which contempory actor would play Soussan? David Walliams? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 This is an amazing thread. The encounters are so well written and so vivid they are running through my head like scenes from a film. It's brilliant material for screenplay writers. This story should be made into a film i reckon, starting with Malc Burton's encounter with Soussan in 1969. I know he's disliked by many, but what a fascinating character. It sounds like with his ego SS would be more than happy to give permission to have a film of his life made... Which contempory actor would play Soussan? David Walliams? Nah Matt, The perfect person to play him is here:- https://www.superseventies.com/10_78.gif Can see the credits now.... Franki Valli IS Simon Soussan in "Do It The French (Morroccan) Way....... Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Codfromderby Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 a mate of mine told a story about sousann in a record shop in nottingham, the bloke behind the counter put the new monitors "fence around your heart" on the decks, simon became rather manic and began pushing other customers out of the way shouting "what is this record i must have it" simon not giving a shit about anyone else in the shop therefore causing mayhem, by the way ive just played "they say" by the electronics on soul galore how many of you over 50,s danced to that then ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ernie Andrews Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 It wasn't you that clobbered me was it Ernie? Good. At least that's verified then. It was also the first time that I'd ever seen a ruck happen @ the Mecca. It's a shame I had to be in the middle of it.......... Plus it took me years to get rid of that Shona Springfield record LOL..... Ian D No Ian it wasnt me but I too saw the build up & thought there gonna be trouble here and thats why I got out of the road. Not Sure If I sat down next to Epic in the corridor or a girl called Julie Issacs(she was a Blackpool girl who I absolutely adored) God Im feeling quite emotional Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just found a copy of one of his famous lists on DiscoMusic (Credit DiscoDisk - TVM) for your amusement I've got the hard copies of these 'filed away' somewhere but can hardly believe it was almost 32 years ago! Poor old Dave Evison is such a 'non-entity' that he gets THREE mentions! Dale Carnegie stand aside... this is really how to win friends and influence people! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
sister dawn Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Simon I know u r reading this babes!!!!, u r famous still after all these soulful years. ... remember the days when u got chased off the pier, u could always talk yourself out of a paper bag!!!!! Like the music u were infamous!!!! my holly 7 inch ...... the real deal..... respect dude!!!! ya did it for me!!!! Frank tell us the real secret of staying so young.....xxxxxxxx Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest SteveJohnston Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 This is an amazing thread. The encounters are so well written and so vivid they are running through my head like scenes from a film. It's brilliant material for screenplay writers. This story should be made into a film i reckon, starting with Malc Burton's encounter with Soussan in 1969. I know he's disliked by many, but what a fascinating character. It sounds like with his ego SS would be more than happy to give permission to have a film of his life made... Which contempory actor would play Soussan? David Walliams? Reading all the post about the mysterious SS and him being down on cash why the hell don't he write a book about the early years of this fantastic music we all love the people the records deals & "none deals," (what he spent my cousins £42 on!) The great escape's and all the rest I would love to read his story! If he turned up at a allnighter would people still want to knock his head of or put the past down to experience? When i told my cous about the post on hear I asked him what he would do if he bumped into Simon it went quite for a few seconds then he told me "I'd call him a c*^t then buy him a drink!" Honest I ask "look he may of ripped a lot of collectors of at the time but when you look back it was no more than the guy's selling all the boots that Simon did or the guy's dealing raps had of me they are the ones that need a slap or I do for buying of them!) Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris L Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Not sure if I once posted a question about Simon Soussan on here before or maybe I intended to. Anyway here goes: Was he such a villain? Yes he took money for records he never had, he had a trick of bullshitting his way into someone's house during the day "looking for his record" and would nick them. I have 2 mates who's mums opened the door fo him and ended up having records nicked. Where was he from and what was his background in soul music? He just liked soul music, coincidence that he liked Northern. What contributions did he make to the scene, good or bad? He did discover some goods sounds, any good will he built up he wiped away by being a thief. Where did he go and what finished his involvement with the NS scene? He moved to the USA, had he stayed in the UK not sure he would still be alive and kicking. Is he still involved in music production? No, totally out of it, he's now become an orthodox Jew. Is he still alive? I believe so, I have his LA tel nr somewhere. Seems to me that the man has his place in the NS Hall of Fame one way or another. All he deserves is a place in jail KTF. Drew. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs Simsy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Wow, great thread. Have been engrossed reading for ages! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest moggy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just found a copy of one of his famous lists on DiscoMusic (Credit DiscoDisk - TVM) for your amusement I've got the hard copies of these 'filed away' somewhere but can hardly believe it was almost 32 years ago! Poor old Dave Evison is such a 'non-entity' that he gets THREE mentions! Dale Carnegie stand aside... this is really how to win friends and influence people! Sean How funny is that F***k you Soul Sam ,Dave Evison etc pmsl what a fruit cake SS was Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris L Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 a mate of mine told a story about sousann in a record shop in nottingham, the bloke behind the counter put the new monitors "fence around your heart" on the decks, simon became rather manic and began pushing other customers out of the way shouting "what is this record i must have it" simon not giving a shit about anyone else in the shop therefore causing mayhem, by the way ive just played "they say" by the electronics on soul galore how many of you over 50,s danced to that then ? A pal of mine had a source at a record shop in LA. He used to get all his rare stuff from him. One day SS walks in and starts looking around, during the chat he casually asks of he is selling anything to any Brits in the UK. The shop owner (remember this is still the early 70T's) mentions he was and says my mates name (I won't mention it) SS says "Oh he's a great mate of mine he asked me to pick up his records" well, believe it or not the shopowner GAVE the records to SS. I know one of them was a demo Rose Batiste - Hit & Run, can't remember the others. He had an extremely pursuasive character that's for sure. If he repaid all the money he nicked, apologised and walked around the world barefoor, twice, he could be forgiven. Chris L Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 A pal of mine had a source at a record shop in LA. He used to get all his rare stuff from him. One day SS walks in and starts looking around, during the chat he casually asks of he is selling anything to any Brits in the UK. The shop owner (remember this is still the early 70T's) mentions he was and says my mates name (I won't mention it) SS says "Oh he's a great mate of mine he asked me to pick up his records" well, believe it or not the shopowner GAVE the records to SS. I know one of them was a demo Rose Batiste - Hit & Run, can't remember the others. He had an extremely pursuasive character that's for sure. If he repaid all the money he nicked, apologised and walked around the world barefoor, twice, he could be forgiven. Chris L Chris, if the scumbag gave a stone mint stock copy of Frank Wilson to everyone who's ever been on the scene, he could never be forgiven... ...besides, it'd only be a bootleg anyway. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs Simsy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 A pal of mine had a source at a record shop in LA. He used to get all his rare stuff from him. One day SS walks in and starts looking around, during the chat he casually asks of he is selling anything to any Brits in the UK. The shop owner (remember this is still the early 70T's) mentions he was and says my mates name (I won't mention it) SS says "Oh he's a great mate of mine he asked me to pick up his records" well, believe it or not the shopowner GAVE the records to SS. I know one of them was a demo Rose Batiste - Hit & Run, can't remember the others. He had an extremely pursuasive character that's for sure. If he repaid all the money he nicked, apologised and walked around the world barefoor, twice, he could be forgiven. Chris L How did he get away with it?! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest ScooterNik Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 More front than Blackpool by the sound f it! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Chris, if the scumbag gave a stone mint stock copy of Frank Wilson to everyone who's ever been on the scene, he could never be forgiven... ...besides, it'd only be a bootleg anyway. He only had the one anyway Tony and that was nicked from Motown's record library! Actually though, that leads me to a question, namely: Is there a statute of limitations on theft? The whole Frank Wilson episode happened because Neil Rushton and I co-financed a recording session and Simon and I then produced Shalamar's debut record "Uptown Festival" which was a Motown disco medley using eight of the Motown classics. In fact, the picture of Simon and Sabrina earlier in the thread was taken at Ike & Tina Turner's studio, Bolic Sound in East L.A. in '76 during the recording of "Uptown Festival". I just tried to attach a clip of the record but the file's too big! It's crap 'cos it's from the cheesy Disco era but there's some fine performances on there......maybe later when I find a smaller file. Incidentaly, a little footnote here: I had the idea of doing a disco medley of Motown songs after hearing the Ritchie Family's "The Best Disco In Town" @ Chez Nous in Bevery Hills. Simon wanted to do a Northern Soul medley and I pointed out that it would be commercial suicide 'cos no one outside of the Northern scene would know the tunes! Hence the reason it evolved into a Motown medley. So the the first people I approached were obviously Motown. I was waiting in Motown's reception trying to see someone in their A&R dept when Tom Depeiro from the Promotion dept saw me and asked if he could help - he was gay and he think he fancied me LOL. Anyway Tom loved the record and then played it to everyone else @ Motown who were generally all really enthusiastic. Suzanne De Passe @ Motown eventually turned it down as they didn't want to upset some of the artists whose original songs we'd used in the medley but who were still signed to the label - i.e. Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder etc, etc. So we ended up signing with Soultrain - we'd already met Don Cornelius @ a club called the Candy Box in Beverly Hills, so we knew him already. The record sold a million, was No.1 for 6 weeks on the Billboard dance chart and became a Top 20 Pop hit in the U.S. Whilst all this was going on I was actually back in the UK by that point as my 6 month tourist visa had run out - later this would cause legal problems for Neil and I as I wasn't technically allowed to work during my stay. All by the by really 'cos shortly after the Shalamar album Don Cornelius and Dick Griffey closed down Soultrain and started Solar Records and then re-constituted Shalamar with Gerald Brown, Jeffrey Daniels and Jodi Watley before replacing Gerald Brown with Howard Hewitt. But unbeknownst to me, Simon had kept in touch with Tom Depeiro and eventually somehow managed to talk himself into getting into the real holy grail - the Motown Record library. At some point he came across the Frank Wilson record, took one look at the credits and knowing it was the only copy he'd ever seen or heard of - he nicked it! Eventually, when he fell on hard times he sold it on to Les McCutcheon and then it ended up with Johnathan Woodliffe in Nottingham before eventually ending up in Kenny Burrell's collection for the princely sum of £15,000. So my question: In the unlikely event that someone @ Universal (now owner of Motown) decided that this was actually their property, would they be able to sue Kenny for the record back? And would he then have to sue whoever he bought it from and get his money back etc, etc....... This is a 32 year old story and I don't know if the 'chain of title' thing or statute of limitations works with records as it would with works of art. And let's face it, "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)" is indeed a work of art and every bit as rare as some historical paintings. Plus, let's also not forget that if the Soul Fox hadn't have nicked it from Motown, we may never have heard it! Ian D Edited March 31, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Simon I know u r reading this babes!!!!, u r famous still after all these soulful years. ... remember the days when u got chased off the pier, u could always talk yourself out of a paper bag!!!!! Like the music u were infamous!!!! my holly 7 inch ...... the real deal..... respect dude!!!! ya did it for me!!!! Frank tell us the real secret of staying so young.....xxxxxxxx Lust for life always helps Dawn! Add a spinkling of total intolerance for day-to-day dreary bullshit, a large appetite for round-the-clock, seat-of-the-pants excitement and a liberal dose of good genes and bob's yer uncle luv. Ian "Danger" D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just found a copy of one of his famous lists on DiscoMusic (Credit DiscoDisk - TVM) for your amusement I've got the hard copies of these 'filed away' somewhere but can hardly believe it was almost 32 years ago! Poor old Dave Evison is such a 'non-entity' that he gets THREE mentions! Dale Carnegie stand aside... this is really how to win friends and influence people! Sean LOL. Amazing. But what are these John Madara instrumentals he's on about? Has anyone ever heard 'em or, more to the point, is anyone now bothered? Also wouldn't mind seeing some scans of his old lists if anyone has any. There were some amazing titles on 'em. Brian Hobson's got all my old lists so I can't scan any myself right now.......... Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 If he turned up at a allnighter would people still want to knock his head of or put the past down to experience? Put the past down to experience ? - I sincerely doubt it ......... A lot of people - and not just the ones who have posted replies to this thread about Simon - have been scarred and wounded by the man's nefarious dealings , and would make a beeline to have a go at him .......... One thing I can guarantee , if he came back , he would have a bright young thing on his arm , who would have fallen hook , line and sinker for the " charm " of the man ............ Malc Burton Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 One thing I can guarantee , if he came back , he would have a bright young thing on his arm , who would have fallen hook , line and sinker for the " charm " of the man ............ Malc Burton ...and I bet it would be Duffy (I'm now making it my mission to work her into as many threads as possible, seeing as how she seems to be so beloved on here Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 ...and I bet it would be Duffy (I'm now making it my mission to work her into as many threads as possible, seeing as how she seems to be so beloved on here D & SS : They deserve each other .............. Oh sod it , let us go for a menage a trois with Amy Whinearse ........... Malc Burton Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SteveM Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) If he turned up at a allnighter would people still want to knock his head of or put the past down to experience? Put the past down to experience ? - I sincerely doubt it ......... A lot of people - and not just the ones who have posted replies to this thread about Simon - have been scarred and wounded by the man's nefarious dealings , and would make a beeline to have a go at him .......... One thing I can guarantee , if he came back , he would have a bright young thing on his arm , who would have fallen hook , line and sinker for the " charm " of the man ............ Malc Burton Malc, before she kissed you goodbye, did you get me her autograph like I asked ? Edited March 31, 2008 by SteveM Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest andyrattigan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Ian You really should put pen to paper sir go on you know it makes sense. I can see it now..... book, then a film based on the book, why soon you could be opening a new Waterstones & doing a signing session Seriously .... I love your record searching thread & with the Soussan type stuff & your recording career ......... its got to be documented, this stuff is what life is all about & people want to read about it Likewise great reading on both threads. Ian write that book. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 D & SS : They deserve each other .............. Oh sod it , let us go for a menage a trois with Amy Whinearse ........... Malc Burton ...to a soundtrack of Paul Weller records, no doubt... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 More front than Blackpool by the sound f it! Someone said he sold Hoover's. Would have made a dynamite glazing salesman. In that period of time he'd of been a millionaire! Wondering if the French Moroccan heritage in some way exempted him from NS scene chivalry? Or did he just not give a toss? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Someone said he sold Hoover's. Would have made a dynamite glazing salesman. In that period of time he'd of been a millionaire! Wondering if the French Moroccan heritage in some way exempted him from NS scene chivalry? Or did he just not give a toss? It didn't help him much that's for sure, LOL. Plus he didn't give a toss either. There are a certain brand of people who tend go through life believing that are 'the chosen ones'. Simon was one of those. I've seen the type many times and now know to avoid them like the plague. I find it fascinating that according to Chris L, he's now become an orthodox Jew. I wonder if he'll now repent his sins and refund all the dosh he's ripped-off people over the years? You couldn't make it up could you? Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 D & SS : They deserve each other .............. Oh sod it , let us go for a menage a trois with Amy Whinearse ........... Malc Burton and produced by Ian Levine no doubt! Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Byrney Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 How did he get away with it?! Absolutely - how? There's always been some very bad lads on the scene; how come with all the ripping off he did he's still breathing. Serious question. Great reading but to my mind if you rip your own off let alone anyone else you're a dirty scumbag. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 It didn't help him much that's for sure, LOL. Plus he didn't give a toss either. There are a certain brand of people who tend go through life believing that are 'the chosen ones'. Simon was one of those. I've seen the type many times and now know to avoid them like the plague. I find it fascinating that according to Chris L, he's now become an orthodox Jew. I wonder if he'll now repent his sins and refund all the dosh he's ripped-off people over the years? You couldn't make it up could you? Ian D Indeed the 'walk between the raindrops' type .. He who lives by the sword .. Orthodox Jew you say? Probably found out the synagogue is the best place to fleece the hasidic collective! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Drew3 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Absolutely wonderful reading. The personal experiences of those who knew this guy is what I hoped would follow the questions I asked. Just as fascinating as the record searching tales of those who went out and did it. I don't wish to detract from the posts that have quite rightly pointed out that Simon Soussan caused a lot of grief to a lot of people. That is their experience and no amount of gloss will cover it up. However, I guess there have always been scoundrels in the entertainment buisness and I wonder if many of the artistes that we adore would hold up to some close scrutiny. In the film Standing In The Shadows Of Motown, band members recount the antics of one of their own (his name escapes me) who ripped various people off but those who remembered him did so with some fondness. The stories retold so far about Simon Soussan are part and parcel of the history of the scene and I for one wish to hear more. Thanks to all those who have posted in reply, whatever your dealings with the man were. KTF. Drew. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Makemvinyl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Frank, I will PM you the "last" escapade of Simon. It's not funny, but it is..if you know what I mean. John John why not tell us a story on what i did as an american record dealer circa/1970/1985 so to speak Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The whole Frank Wilson episode happened because Neil Rushton and I co-financed a recording session and Simon and I then produced Shalamar's debut record "Uptown Festival" which was a Motown disco medley using eight of the Motown classics. In fact, the picture of Simon and Sabrina earlier in the thread was taken at Ike & Tina Turner's studio, Bolic Sound in East L.A. in '76 during the recording of "Uptown Festival". I just tried to attach a clip of the record but the file's too big! It's crap 'cos it's from the cheesy Disco era but there's some fine performances on there......maybe later when I find a smaller file. Ian D Little known fact: It featured PAT POWDRILL on vocals! (yes, the very gal from Downey!). Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Indeed the 'walk between the raindrops' type .. He who lives by the sword .. Orthodox Jew you say? Probably found out the synagogue is the best place to fleece the hasidic collective! Yep, that could be his angle LOL He was one of those guys who kept going on about his religion. Everytime he left his apartment he'd kiss an obviously religious framed picture on the wall. Every conversation was littered with comments like "Neil Bogart. He's Jewish...blah, blah, blah", "Clive Davis. He's Jewish.....blah, blah, blah etc, etc". I didn't need to know 'cos I generally knew already. I haven't got anything against anyone's religion but some people just try and ram it down your neck all the time and it could get on your nerves after a while. Amazing really that someone could be so apparently religious but not think twice about ripping people off. Or maybe the whole orthodox Jew thing could have been a result of the trouble he got in which John Manship mentioned earlier in the thread! Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 John why not tell us a story on what i did as an american record dealer circa/1970/1985 so to speak And he hasn't PM'd me yet, the bugger! I'm DYING to know this story. Also, one of the funniest ones is when Simon broke into the Reddington's Rare Records warehouse through the skylight but we really need Kev Roberts to tell that one. Funny as hell.......... Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Neil Rushton Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The thing about Simon is that he would never do thing the right way as that bored him - he just had to be on the fiddle. I went over to LA a few days after being in New York where I had visited Billy Jackson and found over 800 original copies of "If That's What You Wanted" on Sassy. Simon was great company considering he was such a crook but I was still pissed at him for the way he had ripped off me and Ian Dewhirst on "Uptown Festival" so couldn't resist winding him up about the find. He was inconsolable and jealous beyond belief and came up with all the regular crap - "but that's not possible because I personally know Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff and they have all the Sassy copies" - "but that's impossible because Billy Jackson is one of my best friiends in New York" and so it went on for days...job well done. I know he gets slagged off for his involvement with Mirwood but for the record when I met Randy Woods years later he said that Simon had paid him to get rights to the Mirwood catalogue - Simon being Simon had to take it to the edge though and pretend that the "My Sugar Baby" was Sherlie Matthews, just like he lied about "I Love You Baby" on Black Magic being by Lorraine Chandler. After it was released I spoke to Jack Ashford who had produced the new version of "I Love You Baby" for Black Magic via Simon and he was astonished that the record had got released credited to Lorraine. I actually got to meet Van McCoy via Simon in a roundabout way, at one time he was in all the right circles, and if he had done things properly he could have made a legitimate fortune. The best example of Simon losing out comes from Dave Raistrick - he asked the guys at Monarch pressing plant if they had any stock that had never been paid for? Indeed they had, stored upstairs above the pressing machines and Dave got lots of originals of records that Simon had boolegged at the plant now knowing oriignals were on the premises! His dodgy dealings had poisoned Joey Jefferson so much he wouldn't sell me an Inspirations "No One Else Can Take Your Place" on another occasion - sheer madness. All the Best, Neil Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) The thing about Simon is that he would never do thing the right way as that bored him - he just had to be on the fiddle. I went over to LA a few days after being in New York where I had visited Billy Jackson and found over 800 original copies of "If That's What You Wanted" on Sassy. Simon was great company considering he was such a crook but I was still pissed at him for the way he had ripped off me and Ian Dewhirst on "Uptown Festival" so couldn't resist winding him up about the find. He was inconsolable and jealous beyond belief and came up with all the regular crap - "but that's not possible because I personally know Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff and they have all the Sassy copies" - "but that's impossible because Billy Jackson is one of my best friiends in New York" and so it went on for days...job well done. I know he gets slagged off for his involvement with Mirwood but for the record when I met Randy Woods years later he said that Simon had paid him to get rights to the Mirwood catalogue - Simon being Simon had to take it to the edge though and pretend that the "My Sugar Baby" was Sherlie Matthews, just like he lied about "I Love You Baby" on Black Magic being by Lorraine Chandler. After it was released I spoke to Jack Ashford who had produced the new version of "I Love You Baby" for Black Magic via Simon and he was astonished that the record had got released credited to Lorraine. I actually got to meet Van McCoy via Simon in a roundabout way, at one time he was in all the right circles, and if he had done things properly he could have made a legitimate fortune. The best example of Simon losing out comes from Dave Raistrick - he asked the guys at Monarch pressing plant if they had any stock that had never been paid for? Indeed they had, stored upstairs above the pressing machines and Dave got lots of originals of records that Simon had boolegged at the plant now knowing oriignals were on the premises! His dodgy dealings had poisoned Joey Jefferson so much he wouldn't sell me an Inspirations "No One Else Can Take Your Place" on another occasion - sheer madness. All the Best, Neil Hiya Mate, 800 copies of Frank Beverly?????!!!!! So, presumably there's at least a thousand of 'em buried away in people's collections then? Makes me wonder what it's worth these days. I still thought Sassy copies were pretty rare..... And Simon did do legitimate deals as well, strange as it seems. Neil cited the Mirwood deal, someone else cited the Doni Burdick deal and I know he paid Joe Robinson for the Frankie Crocker "Ton Of Dynamite" and Kenny Smith for the "Lord What's Happening To Your People" re-presses 'cos I heard him on the phone talking with them. Joe Robinson wasn't one to mess around with in those days - had Simon attempted to rip him off, there'd have been two Mike Tyson's on the next plane to L.A. LOL.... He'd often phone artists or label owners whilst I was there and always seemed to be sending payments out. Other than that I didn't really get into his personal business dealings, thank God. Also, he introduced me to a ton of acts - Solomon Burke, Ike Turner, Pat Powdrill and loads of others, as mentioned above. He'd often bump into 'em on the street and he had an almost photographic memory for faces (same as records). We met Solomon Burke going into a lift in a bank in downtown L.A. and Simon was his usual over-the-top self, "baby boy, we are in zees lift with one of ze legends of Black Music..." as he turned towards Solomon in the lift and stuck his hand out, ...."Mr Burke sir, my name is Simon Soussan and I am your greatest fan! I am blessed to be able to meet you. I am humbled." etc, etc, etc. And as Solomon left the lift, Simon would then say something like, "there goes one of the greatest sinus-deblockers of all time", somewhat destroying the moment LOL..... I agree with Neil totally that if he'd been a bit more honest he could have cleaned up legitimately in the 70's. Dave Raistrick's just been on the Greatest Record Finds thread and is threatening some stories, so I'm hoping we can squeeze the Monarch story out of him for this thread. I'm wondering whether that was the same trip when Arthur Fenn had his hit @ Monarch? Van McCoy was a right result though Neil. Almost (but not quite) made up for the Shalamar disappointment....... Ian D Edited April 2, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ezzie Brown Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Simon Soussan showed how easy it could be to exploit the Northern Soul scene to great personal advantage. He has thus been a perfect role model for (far too) many people over the past three decades, and I hope that he and they all rot in hell when their times come... WELL SAID TONy.............. LETS START A LIST OF THEM, THERE STILL AROUND ,SEE THEM AT NITERS ALL THE TIME.............NOT PAYING THEIR DEBTS , SELLIN BOOTS , RIPPING THE UNKNOWING OFF FROM THEIR RARE SOUNDS ETC "ITS DEFFO A BOOT" THEY SAY AS THEY HAD OVER A TENNER AND SHOOT OFF LAUGHING............ E BAY IS FULL OFF UM. VINYL CARVING[not there fault] WITH PHOTO COPY LABELS.......i would rather stay poor myself Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Neil Rushton Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yes 800 plus on Sassy, from Billy Jackson's apartment in New York. They go for £500 each now so that was a cool £400k find....but I wholesaled most of them for £3 each. Bily confirmed the story to Butch and co when he came over to the UK some years back. I think before I found them only the issues were known about, and that was with "Love(Your Pain Goes Deep) on the flip. I also found the white dj's of these and the issues and demos with "This Is Just A B Side as the flip. The reason they were all there was that Billy had licenced the record early doors to Gamble, and was asked as part of deal not to distribute the Sassy copies. A friend,Graham Hawkins from Walall ,was a top collector at the time and he happened to drop into the office the day the haul turned up. Bill Baker and myself said we were off to the pub across the road but could he open the parcels as we thought there might be a couple of the Sassy 45's in there and we knew he was desperate for a copy. We left him to it for a bit and then couldn't stand it anymore and went back - Graham was in a state of shock and and could hardly talk, surrounded by 100's of the single. Brillaint. We missed the fact that we had both demos and issues of the version with "This Is Just a B Side", we thought that it was on just a demo or issue, but not both, and the missing format copies were found while doing a record bar at a Birmingham Locarno All-Dayer, Eddie Hubbard either found them or was there when I found them, and it was my turn to be nonplussed. Billy Jackson was a real nice guy and he also licenced the single to me for Inferno. It was good to meet up with him when he came over to the UK. Van McCoy was a right result but one of the three times in my left when I was too in awe of the person I was meeting to talk to them apart from burbling Hello or whatever...other two were George Best and Bobby Moore. All the Best, Neil Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Just to join in on the SS thread, I haven't got any juicy US style SS stories unfortunately, but I was talking to Richard S on the way to the casino one (i think) Wednesday night, and he was enthusing about the new versions of Blowing my mind to pieces, that were arriving on the following weekend. I was in Russ's shop on the following Saturday afternoon when Russ came in with a well coiffured pink suited diminutive gentleman, who proceeded to put som absolute shite onto the deck. What really took the biscuit was this abortion that appeared to be loosely based on "Thumb a ride". I just stopped flicking through the vinyl and said "What the f*ck is that"?. I got daggers from the man. I was actually suprised that Richard was in on these crap(IMHO) tailor mades. That's it sorry it wasn't more glamorous. Paul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest mel brat Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) I agree absolutely with Tony Rounce and Sean Hampsey's comments! Edited April 2, 2008 by mel brat Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soul Stu Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 First just like to say hello to Ian, we spoke some weeks back on Starpoint and apologise for not remembering he used to spin records at the Central. Jo Armstead - I Feel an Urge Coming on was playing virtually every time we arrived. Speaking to an old mate Alan Rhodes he informed me Ian used to be known as Frank? Anyway ,going on to the infamous Simon Soussan. I first met Simon in Jumbo's, Leeds. He was ranting over the Incredibles, There's Nothing Else to Say, which was one of my favourites from the Wheel. I think he was just getting into Northern. A couple of years later I received or sent for a list from Simon, load of records with inflated prices, he was advertising Edwin and Blinky, Oh How Happy for £18? I bought a couple of records at normal prices, Edwin Starr,Girls are Getting Pretty and one by the Showmen. Once arranged to go to his flat to see some records but he was out. Next time I saw him was at Wigan playing backing tracks not really a memorable evening. Talking about Wigan I used to give Alan Rhodes a lift in my car and in return I got in Wigan free. Always remember the state of the place, they used to have a punk do before the all nighter, there were broken bottles and black bin liners everywhere and spit. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Ivor Jones Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I'm here! Oh boy, there's enough material about Simon Soussan for another monster thread. Drew came up with a blinder here LOL....... I will write at length about Simon because he does have a place on the scene without a shadow of a doubt. There's no doubt that he was a serious hustler and chancer - that was the nature of the guy. He couldn't help himself as Ady rightfully pointed out. These days they'd put it down to an ego disorder or just bad genes but Simon was basically a very slick French-Morroccan confidence trickster - if you've ever been in a Morroccan street market you'll know the type. But he was also blessed with a lot of intelligence, confidence and passion so it was hard not to like him, even though you knew that the guy would screw you at some point 'cos he screwed everyone. Even though he ripped myself and Neil Rushton off on the Shalamar record, we kinda both saw it coming so we only had ourselves to blame LOL. But there was a weird upside to knowing him. I had a stack of adventures with the guy and hung around with him in L.A. for a few months. I also had a million-selling record with the guy - "Uptown Festival" by Shalamar (where do you think THAT name came from) and packed a wealth of experiences into a few months in L.A. He got me into the Dramatics, all the best clubs in L.A., he hooked me up with Don Cornelius, Ike Turner, El Coco, Jack Ashford, Solomon Burke etc, etc and got me laid a few times. I liked him. Anyway, I'll expand on this thread, but in short and in answer to Drew's original points:- Where was he from and what was his background in soul music? A French-Morroccan who moved to Leeds, Yorkshire and worked designing suits for Burtons. He discovered Northern Soul in Leeds and became quite passionate about it very quickly. What contributions did he make to the scene, good or bad? Where do I start? He discovered literally hundreds of Northern Soul records and his knowledge and memory retention was phenomenal. But he ripped-off a lot of people and didn't give a shit about it as long as he was OK. Where did he go and what finished his involvement with the NS scene? Still in L.A. with new wife and new kid when I last saw him in 1990, but in vastly different circumstances to when he was flying high in the mid 70's. I think he'd burned all his bridges and there was no one to call anymore. On the skids basically. I couldn't get out fast enough. But there again, I was on my way to Vegas to get wed at the time...... A star who burned bright, but burned out quickly. Is he still involved in music production? Nope. He's probably somewhere in vastly diminished circumstances. I think he sold his music catalogue to Unidisc at some point. Is he still alive? Good question Drew. Dunno. Does anyone else know? I actually have some phenomenal Soussan stories. They're just incredible really. Here's a quicky....... When I arrived at L.A.X., Simon came to meet me and this is what happened within the first 2 minutes of meeting him..... I passed customs and walked through arrivals and immediately spotted Simon. I vaguely knew what he looked like - smooth, chiselled Middle-Eastern hustler and there he was right in front of me. We greeted each other and sort of embraced. The last time I saw Simon @ Blackpool Mecca I got glassed and had my nose broken. No big deal and I kind of peaked the situation and gave Simon the chance to slip away. Which he did. Totally vanished LOL... So he believed that I'd saved his life. So we kind of embraced, weird though it was and he said "welcome to L.A. baby boy. We're gonna have fun"! And with that he starting leading me through the airport telling me that America was 'the land of opportunity' and that there was 'pussy everywhere' and he was 'going to get me laid' etc, etc... I mean I was jet-lagged, knackered and still getting adjusted to things and I have this silver fox like cartoon character speaking ten to the dozen and I'm just trying to keep up with the whirlwind......... And, all of sudden, he smashes me in the ribs and says, "hey baby boy....look at THAT"! And the greatest looking female I had ever seen in my entire life was approaching us... And Simon said, "watch this baby boy........" And he went up to her and said, "Hello madame. I couldn't help noticing you because you are beautiful and I notice beauty because I am a fashion designer. I run the company called "Our Love Is In The Pocket" - we're the ones who put the pocket in between the breasts to give the illusion of accessibility to the male species. The pockets themselves are designed by J.J. Barnes of the Revilot organisation - you'll have read about him in Vogue I'm sure, so I was wondering if you'd be interested in modelling our new Summer line which is coming up. We're going to call it "Sweet Sherry" and I think you'd be the perfect girl to front the campaign. Would it be possible to have your number so our business affairs people can contact you"? By this point, both the greatest looking female of all time and me were absolutely mesmerised. A FANTASTIC spiel. Right up there with Mussolini and Hitler in my opinion...... So the greatest looking female of all time gave Simon her number, smiled seductively at him and said "make sure you call me. Quick!" She walked off and I looked at Simon and said, "Wow. I'm dead impressed. When are ya gonna ring her"? And Simon went very serious for a milli-second and then smiled, ripped the greatest looking female of all time's number into tiny shreds and threw the pieces of paper into the air. Then he looked at me and said, "Baby boy, this is L.A. There are a million beautiful women here and you're gonna f*$k 'em all"! THAT was within the first 2 minutes of being with Simon in L.A. It was hard not to be impressed by the pure bullshit approach. He was the grandmaster of bullshit. On the other hand, if I was going to be honest, the thought of f&%king a million women at that point was pretty appealing. So he suckered me into the bullshit. Welcome to Hollywood. Ian D FANTASTIC Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris L Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 And let's face it, "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)" is indeed a work of art and every bit as rare as some historical paintings. Plus, let's also not forget that if the Soul Fox hadn't have nicked it from Motown, we may never have heard it! Ian D You know, it is a great record, it really is, we're so lucky it was recorded and saved. Having said that that can't compensate for the evil stuff he got up to. Who says that Chris King wouldn't have found it ? Chris L Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) You know, it is a great record, it really is, we're so lucky it was recorded and saved. Having said that that can't compensate for the evil stuff he got up to. Who says that Chris King wouldn't have found it ? Chris L Well, how many copies are there? I think there's just 2 isn't there? The one from the Motown library and Martin Koppel's old one. Apart from those two, are there any more? I don't think Chris ever found one to my knowledge did he? Plus I don't think he had access to the Motown record library - most of Chris's Motown acetate finds were via pressing plants I believe...... That's not to say someone else may wouldn't have found it over time, but just 2 copies in 30 years of people searching surely reduces the odds doesn't it? Soussan's a despicable guy for sure without a doubt, but he could dig up great records and that's presumably why we're discussing him here. And what he did to me on the first night I spent in L.A. is a good example which I'll bang down shortly.......... Ian D Edited April 6, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Harry Crosby Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Well, how many copies are there? I think there's just 2 isn't there? The one from the Motown library and Martin Koppel's old one. Apart from those two, are there any more? I don't think Chris ever found one to my knowledge did he? Plus I don't think he had access to the Motown record library - most of Chris's Motown acetate finds were via pressing plants I believe...... That's not to say someone else may wouldn't have found it over time, but just 2 copies in 30 years of people searching surely reduces the odds doesn't it? Soussan's a despicable guy for sure without a doubt, but he could dig up great records and that's presumably why we're discussing him here. And what he did to me on the first night I spent in L.A. is a good example which I'll bang down shortly.......... Ian D Hi Ian wasn`t another copy found a couple of years ago in an american record shop, or something along those lines, this record brings back probably my most embarrasing moment, as a young lad i never new [forgive the pun] about f wilson, just the eddie foster boot, to wich i pressumed there was an original, so when johnathan woodliffe was selling up and he had this in his box, he was talking and i said how much for this mate? he said FOUR to wich i promptly handed over a fiver awaiting my change, when he laughed along with all around saying NO FOUR HUNDRED MATE! scuttled off into the dark and hid Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Well, how many copies are there? I think there's just 2 isn't there? The one from the Motown library and Martin Koppel's old one. Apart from those two, are there any more? I don't think Chris ever found one to my knowledge did he? Plus I don't think he had access to the Motown record library - most of Chris's Motown acetate finds were via pressing plants I believe...... That's not to say someone else may wouldn't have found it over time, but just 2 copies in 30 years of people searching surely reduces the odds doesn't it? Soussan's a despicable guy for sure without a doubt, but he could dig up great records and that's presumably why we're discussing him here. And what he did to me on the first night I spent in L.A. is a good example which I'll bang down shortly.......... Ian D I thought Chris had access to all of the Motown tapes in storage at Abbey Road...or sommat. Definitely had the tapes though Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
arnie j Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Well, how many copies are there? I think there's just 2 isn't there? The one from the Motown library and Martin Koppel's old one. Apart from those two, are there any more? I don't think Chris ever found one to my knowledge did he? Plus I don't think he had access to the Motown record library - most of Chris's Motown acetate finds were via pressing plants I believe...... That's not to say someone else may wouldn't have found it over time, but just 2 copies in 30 years of people searching surely reduces the odds doesn't it? Soussan's a despicable guy for sure without a doubt, but he could dig up great records and that's presumably why we're discussing him here. And what he did to me on the first night I spent in L.A. is a good example which I'll bang down shortly.......... Ian D theres also a rumour that at least one motown collector in britain has had one in his collection for years, hes not part of the rare soul scene though and doesnt like to advertise the fact that he/they own one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jumpinjoan Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Seem to recall that 'Canal Street' in Nottingham was the nearest he had to that, Max. He was a wrong 'un alright... but the masses here bought his stuff by the pallett load. BTW Anybody see or got his "Rare Soul & Motown Guide"? (produced in the late 80's?) Incredible stuff with amazing label pics. Sean No... but I was looking for album covers for a uni project last year and came across this on Popsike. Published in 1994... I surprised by how recent it was. Sold on Ebay for £44 in 2006 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 No... but I was looking for album covers for a uni project last year and came across this on Popsike. Published in 1994... I surprised by how recent it was. Sold on Ebay for £44 in 2006 Wow. I've never actually seen that. It'd be interesting to see how it compares to Johnny and Tim's guides........ Incidentally, a good book to get for the Uni project might be the Album Cover Album. It's got all the good 60's & 70's Hipgnosis/Roger Dean sleeves etc. Here's one going cheap - https://cgi.ebay.ca/Album-Cover-Album-Hipgn...1742.m153.l1262 Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Wow. I've never actually seen that. It'd be interesting to see how it compares to Johnny and Tim's guides........ Ian D It's a Triffic read! It's got page after page of B/W images of Motown / Detroit Acetates and rarest of rare Motown & US Soul 45's. Tats bought a copy in Baltimore when we were there 11 years ago and I photocopied it... cos they only had the one copy! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!