jocko Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 my knowledge on all aspects of soul music is unquestionable...so for someone to dismiss me from a few posts on a message board... Which Frankie Valli tune are you pushing tonight to back up this rather large statement. Even if your ego could back up your ridiculous pompous attitude, how come no-one I have spoken to in Manchester knows you? And before you start your foul abuse, I have been speaking to people like Bugz etc, so dont assume old people only like Northern! Do some research before you attack. I have done my research and it throws up some interesting information!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon T Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 what an odd thread if 35 =youth then have to say things are grim When I was a lad, I was advised by my best mate (who's parents where about 35!) not to talk to any of the old folk, Â 25+, as they would be the 'squad'Â Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
jocko Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 This is the essence of the problem, isn't it? Young whipersnapper, only 35 FFS, comes on here and dares to express opinions! What's the world coming to? Furthermore, he has the audacity to express those opinions intelligently and in an affable manner! I despair! "We didn't fight in two world wars to have this sort of..... etc etc etc " And which part of his forgetting more than people know, and his unquestionable soul knowledge, and calling me names because I question his logic is intelligent or affable, followed by Ruby Andrews and Franki Valli postings!! Sorry Dave but you are only sticking up for him BECAUSE of his age, it this was your average Peterborogh bod on here saying the things he has you would be down on him like a ton of bricks. Read the meaning not the lets save the scene with the youth crap, I repeat if this is the future then I am glad its all over. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
jocko Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Pete's hit the nail on the head here. Beeks may be a nice chap in person and may be sincere in his love of soul music, but his first few weeks of posting have just got peoples' backs up. It's not because he's young (at 35 he clearly isn't) but because he comes across as a dick. Okay I should have read this from the end first, But Gareth succinct and accurate as ever. My last word! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
TOAD Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 young (at 35 he clearly isn't) but because he comes across as a dick. AND SEND RUDE E MAILS TO PEOPLE ON HERE Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 And which part of his forgetting more than people know, and his unquestionable soul knowledge, and calling me names because I question his logic is intelligent or affable, followed by Ruby Andrews and Franki Valli postings!! Sorry Dave but you are only sticking up for him BECAUSE of his age, it this was your average Peterborogh bod on here saying the things he has you would be down on him like a ton of bricks. Read the meaning not the lets save the scene with the youth crap, I repeat if this is the future then I am glad its all over. Hello Jock, What I said is based on Beeks' posts on this thread, which have generally been fairly intelligent and also affable when you consider he's been called a "twat" and a "dick". I didn't know he'd been calling you names.. any chance of a link? Going back to the original post there's some fair points, regardless of one's opinion of the way he puts them. And as for his age? Well, it's a red herring, isn't it? He's 35 FFS, not 19! BTW I'm not biting on the geographical reference Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest James Trouble Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Hello Jock, What I said is based on Beeks' posts on this thread, which have generally been fairly intelligent and also affable when you consider he's been called a "twat" and a "dick". I didn't know he'd been calling you names.. any chance of a link? Going back to the original post there's some fair points, regardless of one's opinion of the way he puts them. And as for his age? Well, it's a red herring, isn't it? He's 35 FFS, not 19! BTW I'm not biting on the geographical reference I can see Jocko, Gareth et al's point of view, especially when taken in the context of Beeker's recent posts on other threads. And although his original post on this thread is an interesting point, I'm not sure it's a well informed one, which is probably what's creating the rough reaction from some quarters. We all know there are those type of folk who many concider to be in this thing for the 'wrong reasons' and they are an easy target for a cheap shot to make one feel better about one's life, but if Beeker was perhaps a bit better travelled he would realise there are many events and a lot of folk who are very exciting and special to be around and the 'scene' is doing some great things right now. And it's these illinformed strong opinions he's expressing, even if correct to a degree, coupled with threads like the Ruby Andrews et al which is rubbing folk up the wrong way? Hey Beeker, are you going to Middleton tonight? I think your viewpoint on an event like that would be intersting reading... Slightly off topic, but Beeker, your funk comments on another thread are daft, not worth pulling stunts like that, pal. You look silly, not a good look Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) I can see Jocko, Gareth et al's point of view, especially when taken in the context of Beeker's recent posts on other threads. And although his original post on this thread is an interesting point, I'm not sure it's a well informed one, which is probably what's creating the rough reaction from some quarters. We all know there are those type of folk who many concider to be in this thing for the 'wrong reasons' and they are an easy target for a cheap shot to make one feel better about one's life, but if Beeker was perhaps a bit better travelled he would realise there are many events and a lot of folk who are very exciting and special to be around and the 'scene' is doing some great things right now. And it's these illinformed strong opinions he's expressing, even if correct to a degree, coupled with threads like the Ruby Andrews et al which is rubbing folk up the wrong way? exactly, he's trying to change a scene he seems to know little about venue wise. And insulting people who have, to quote Beeker himself... "forgotten more than he'll ever know" is just not how to go about blowing away some cobwebs as he also says. Edited July 12, 2008 by chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy BB Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Blimey You go away for a while only to come back and find that Badly Drawn Boy has stolen Ronnie Corbett's clothes and is causing trouble on the Northern Soul scene. Never a dull moment. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Blimey You go away for a while only to come back and find that Badly Drawn Boy has stolen Ronnie Corbett's clothes and is causing trouble on the Northern Soul scene. Never a dull moment. no hat though Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) You go away for a while only to come back and find that Badly Drawn Boy has stolen Ronnie Corbett's clothes and is causing trouble on the Northern Soul scene. steady on a bit, before you issue a fatwa! This season I mostly has a similar look going on beard and hair wise and im younger than beeks... Im gonna be scared to go out soon for fear of a bashing! (see a bearded youth at Annersley, please check that he's Beeks from wales/manc and not little me from north notts before you punch!) I feel Ive been done a disservice - we're (young soul music fans) not all mouthy and disrespectful you know! A little tollerance and encouragement towards the younger soulies might be called for but a new wave?seriously Beeks your not a soul messiah???? baggies???? Eugene McDaniels - the parasite on a northern forum???? Come on man, we can do much much better! less bull and china shop please! I have to say, the old addage "shut up and dance" was never more appropriate! J Edited July 12, 2008 by jhsoulnotts Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I feel Ive been done a disservice - we're (young soul music fans) not all mouthy and disrespectful you know! Like Mike said earlier - 35, young? 15, 16 is young...35 is married with 2 kids territory Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) Like Mike said earlier - 35, young? 15, 16 is young...35 is married with 2 kids territory (thats why I used younger, not young. Im not young but I am younger!) Ironic yes, but the fact is that under 35 does mean young in northern soul circles... I think that Beeks is showing that that gap in age also means a gap in outlook... its easy to see when everytime a new duffy comes out (and there have been hundreds before her - and will be hundreds after her) the northern scene craps itself and makes ready for an invasion... It wont ever happen that way... Edited July 12, 2008 by jhsoulnotts Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
kevinsoulman Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 i wish i was 35 and had gone to the wheel kev Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) i wish i was 35 and had gone to the wheel kev ??? what, whos 35, whos been to the wheel? Im lost? Edited July 12, 2008 by jhsoulnotts Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
pikeys dog Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 i wish i was 35 and had gone to the wheel kev You could have - in the late 80s / early 90s they had Bank Holiday Allnighters there. Not to mention the current events held on Whitworth Street. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Ive come home for a night out and what do I find...more abuse...im a clueless dick...yet you have harped on about how its ME thats the abusive one?? If this is the type of reception people get on here...coupled with the fact that the scene already has an intolerant reputation, I worry for the future... To be honest ive not said anything that contravertial...ive mentioned I didnt like a certain tune...which I got hauled over the coals for...ive expressed the need for young blood on the scene...which reading back on this thread only goes to prove my point... You are all behaving like a bunch of 'I KNOW BETTER' kids and it absolutely amazes me... Nasty...bitter people...you should be ashamed of yourselves So what if I dont know Ruby Andrews...ive been to lots of Northern Soul events over the years and just never heard it being played...Ive never once claimed to be a label spotting expert on the Northern scene...ive mentioned time and time again im from a contemporary soul background...so who cares if ive only just found a record I truelly love... To be honest I dont feel the need to prove myself to any of you on here...for to do that id have to respect you...and after the abuse ive experienced in this thread alone...any respect I might have had has diappeared along with your obvious lack of decorum... I will continue to love my soul...in any guise...ive been doing it half my life and will continue to do so...I dont need your permission... So once again...thanks for the warm welcome...you really know how to make people feel at home...if home was a work house... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Slightly off topic, but Beeker, your funk comments on another thread are daft, not worth pulling stunts like that, pal. You look silly, not a good look I dont like Funk...my own personal preference...am I going to tell you what to listen to? Stunts? Daft? Silly? No Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wiganer1 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Ive come home for a night out and what do I find...more abuse...im a clueless dick...yet you have harped on about how its ME thats the abusive one?? If this is the type of reception people get on here...coupled with the fact that the scene already has an intolerant reputation, I worry for the future... To be honest ive not said anything that contravertial...ive mentioned I didnt like a certain tune...which I got hauled over the coals for...ive expressed the need for young blood on the scene...which reading back on this thread only goes to prove my point... You are all behaving like a bunch of 'I KNOW BETTER' kids and it absolutely amazes me... Nasty...bitter people...you should be ashamed of yourselves So what if I dont know Ruby Andrews...ive been to lots of Northern Soul events over the years and just never heard it being played...Ive never once claimed to be a label spotting expert on the Northern scene...ive mentioned time and time again im from a contemporary soul background...so who cares if ive only just found a record I truelly love... To be honest I dont feel the need to prove myself to any of you on here...for to do that id have to respect you...and after the abuse ive experienced in this thread alone...any respect I might have had has diappeared along with your obvious lack of decorum... I will continue to love my soul...in any guise...ive been doing it half my life and will continue to do so...I dont need your permission... So once again...thanks for the warm welcome...you really know how to make people feel at home...if home was a work house... ====== come on guys - give this lad a break! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Ive come home for a night out and what do I find...more abuse...im a clueless dick...yet you have harped on about how its ME thats the abusive one?? If this is the type of reception people get on here...coupled with the fact that the scene already has an intolerant reputation, I worry for the future... To be honest ive not said anything that contravertial...ive mentioned I didnt like a certain tune...which I got hauled over the coals for...ive expressed the need for young blood on the scene...which reading back on this thread only goes to prove my point... You are all behaving like a bunch of 'I KNOW BETTER' kids and it absolutely amazes me... Nasty...bitter people...you should be ashamed of yourselves So what if I dont know Ruby Andrews...ive been to lots of Northern Soul events over the years and just never heard it being played...Ive never once claimed to be a label spotting expert on the Northern scene...ive mentioned time and time again im from a contemporary soul background...so who cares if ive only just found a record I truelly love... To be honest I dont feel the need to prove myself to any of you on here...for to do that id have to respect you...and after the abuse ive experienced in this thread alone...any respect I might have had has diappeared along with your obvious lack of decorum... I will continue to love my soul...in any guise...ive been doing it half my life and will continue to do so...I dont need your permission... So once again...thanks for the warm welcome...you really know how to make people feel at home...if home was a work house... Why don't you just read the entire thread again and maybe you'll see why you've got people's backs up. All the time you're being belligerent to people like Mak and other long-standing members of the forum then you'll get "abuse" (n.b. you can report any abuse to the moderators and they will investigate and remove it if deemed necessary). You shouldn't take replies such as this as abuse. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 ====== come on guys - give this lad a break! Have you actually read the thread? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Have you actually read the thread? What? Has he actually read the thread of you hurling abuse at me for the last few pages? Have you actually read the thread Pete? I'll think you'll find that my posts are few and far between compared to your insults... But hey...it was obviously warranted...I mean...what does this clueless frankie valli loving dick know eh? Im such a bad guy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 You shouldn't take replies such as this as abuse. Oh I see Pete...and what part of 'Dick' and 'Twat' should I not take as abuse...that and other snide comments on my obvious lack of knowledge about anything...ive read the thread Pete...and nothing...NOTHING warrants such an attack on my person...so dont try and cover up your tracks by insulting my intelligence as well as my being Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soultown andy Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Come to middleton tonite and see what it is realy all about,i will introduce you to some ss members . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 What? Has he actually read the thread of you hurling abuse at me for the last few pages? Have you actually read the thread Pete? I'll think you'll find that my posts are few and far between compared to your insults... But hey...it was obviously warranted...I mean...what does this clueless frankie valli loving dick know eh? Im such a bad guy I haven't insulted you once. I said I didn't like the Ruby Andrews record. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wiganer1 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Come to middleton tonite and see what it is realy all about,i will introduce you to some ss members . === yes group hug! - well not so girly but u know what i mean...lol Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Oh I see Pete...and what part of 'Dick' and 'Twat' should I not take as abuse...that and other snide comments on my obvious lack of knowledge about anything...ive read the thread Pete...and nothing...NOTHING warrants such an attack on my person...so dont try and cover up your tracks by insulting my intelligence as well as my being Well report it to the moderators and they will deal with it. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Come to middleton tonite and see what it is realy all about,i will introduce you to some ss members . haha Id love to Andy...heard a lot of good comments about it...but not this month...im not going out to a do until next month...so might pop my head in...im gonna show my face at Bury too...so at least all the SS lot know where to find me should they want to lynch me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Well report it to the moderators and they will deal with it. No thanks...I feel im above the need to make big issues out of small things Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soultown andy Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 You will soon learn their are venues and venues, people who do and those that talk a bit on here.A bit of advice go to a few of the venues that are talked up on here see what they are realy like and who is actualy at them it will be a real eye opener and dont belive a word you read on lookbacks till you have visited the venue . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 You will soon learn their are venues and venues, people who do and those that talk a bit on here.A bit of advice go to a few of the venues that are talked up on here see what they are realy like and who is actualy at them it will be a real eye opener and dont belive a word you read on lookbacks till you have visited the venue . I agree with you completely...and you're right...as far as the circuit is concerned im very green...yes...I go to lots of scooter rallies...so ive been to hundreds of organised Northern dos...but its not the same...apart from that ive only ever been to the Wheel (And contrary to the previous snide posts on here the wheel has put on several nights in manc since the 70s) the Manchester Ritz dos, and the New Century Soul dos at the CIS so yes you could say my experience of organised dos/venues is limited...but that will change...ill give your night a whirl shortly Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Winnie :-) Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 No thanks...I feel im above the need to make big issues out of small things ============ Have to say read through the whole thread, and honestly can't see what all the fuss is about, regarding your comments. Didn't seem rude, just to the point. We have this argument on a regular basis, bottom line is that if this music is too survive as a scene then young blood is needed, the alternative is a purely selfish outlook. Personally think Beeks has been hammered, because he put himself out there, dared to put his ''contempary'' views forward and had them disected because they don't fit the template of older folk James you and Beeks have a bit in common, you're both passionate and outspoken, ok he's not a lover of funk, but not everybody is, it's not a big deal, just a fact of life. Was surprised you had a pop, not one of those ''I'm the only gay in this village'' scenarios is it? Winnie :-) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 ============ Have to say read through the whole thread, and honestly can't see what all the fuss is about, regarding your comments. Didn't seem rude, just to the point. We have this argument on a regular basis, bottom line is that if this music is too survive as a scene then young blood is needed, the alternative is a purely selfish outlook. Personally think Beeks has been hammered, because he put himself out there, dared to put his ''contempary'' views forward and had them disected because they don't fit the template of older folk James you and Beeks have a bit in common, you're both passionate and outspoken, ok he's not a lover of funk, but not everybody is, it's not a big deal, just a fact of life. Was surprised you had a pop, not one of those ''I'm the only gay in this village'' scenarios is it? Winnie :-) Win, it's not just this topic. he's let his mouth run free when he's admitted (eventually) he doesn't know what he's talking about with regards to records and venues. Not only did he say to Jock that he'd forgotten more than Jock will ever know he also insulted him, he also spouted off at other members, does he expect them to sit back and take it? Beeks should like Pete say learn what he can say and to who before letting his mouth run free. He's told us all how it should be done when he doesn't have much of a clue how it's being done in the first place? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest James Trouble Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Oh I see Pete...and what part of 'Dick' and 'Twat' should I not take as abuse...that and other snide comments on my obvious lack of knowledge about anything...ive read the thread Pete...and nothing...NOTHING warrants such an attack on my person...so dont try and cover up your tracks by insulting my intelligence as well as my being I think there is a lot of sense in what you have said amongst some of the daft bits. The problem is, those who don't like what you say don't have to argue with the logic or ideas, they can easily snipe at you as a person. This means that no matter how tight your angle of attack is there is always a big gap for folk to poke at. And 35 years old is hardly young, is it, it's more like approaching middle age? I don't think that is helping. If you were 19 and been out and about on the scene a lot, folk would probably not take offence. But at 35 and having only been to a couple of venues, I dunno, it certainly don't help much... But hey, keep ~unting folk off, it's good stuff And pull your socks up and get to Middleton tonight and have a dance, lots of young 30 somethings heading up there from down south When you've been to more than a couple of places and looked some of these folk on here in the eyes they will probably take your views on the chin a bit better Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mak Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Even if your ego could back up your ridiculous pompous attitude, how come no-one I have spoken to in Manchester knows you? Jocko , I have done the same and I think I got the same result as you Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest James Trouble Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 (edited) ============ Have to say read through the whole thread, and honestly can't see what all the fuss is about, regarding your comments. Didn't seem rude, just to the point. We have this argument on a regular basis, bottom line is that if this music is too survive as a scene then young blood is needed, the alternative is a purely selfish outlook. Personally think Beeks has been hammered, because he put himself out there, dared to put his ''contempary'' views forward and had them disected because they don't fit the template of older folk James you and Beeks have a bit in common, you're both passionate and outspoken, ok he's not a lover of funk, but not everybody is, it's not a big deal, just a fact of life. Was surprised you had a pop, not one of those ''I'm the only gay in this village'' scenarios is it? Winnie :-) I'm not quite sure I follow you, buddy. I don't think he has 'put himself out there', which is why folk have been grated by him. Personally I've enjoyed reading what he's said, it's been pretty fair and well reasoned, some it has been daft as a brush though. I think you are missing the point here, Winnie, and I agree totally with what Chalky has just replied to you... Edited July 12, 2008 by James Trouble Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Win, it's not just this topic. he's let his mouth run free when he's admitted (eventually) he doesn't know what he's talking about with regards to records and venues. Not only did he say to Jock that he'd forgotten more than Jock will ever know he also insulted him, he also spouted off at other members, does he expect them to sit back and take it? Beeks should like Pete say learn what he can say and to who before letting his mouth run free. He's told us all how it should be done when he doesn't have much of a clue how it's being done in the first place? I disagree on everything you have posted...ive only ever bitten when provoked...which lets be honest I tend to be provoked on here alot...yes im mouthy and opiniated...but most of my posts are in good humour...I bit with Jock because he was abusive and provoked me...read the thread it was on and you will see...what you fail to understand Chalky is that im not used to my music knowledge being questioned...and...although the 'Ive forgotten more' post is regrettable...I stand by it...take soul in its entirety and there isnt much I dont know...old/modern/contemporay/new wave...whatever you want to call it...I know about it...30000 records has not been an exaggeration...again...fact. im not trying to blow my own trumpet...which most of you do on here...its just a hard fact. Northern Soul...granted...you have me...but I didnt comment on that...also this argument about venues...ive been a promoter for a long time...and REGARDLESS of what music genre it is...the same rules apply to attracting and keeping crowds happy...something which I have vast experience at doing... So yes...I feel like I have the authority to speak on such matter... Far more authority than most of you armchair listeners have anyway Again...as previously posted I dont feel the need to prove anything to you or anyone...but the sooner you realise im not some mug that wondered in unprepared...the better it will be for everyone. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Black Gold of the Sun Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 When I was a lad, I was advised by my best mate (who's parents where about 35!) not to talk to any of the old folk, 25+, as they would be the 'squad' Nowadays I,d reverse that advice.Anyone under 25 is probably D,S Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Jocko , I have done the same and I think I got the same result as you Look at Bill and Ben here?! Have you not read anything ive posted?? Ive NEVER promoted Northern Soul nights!! Contemporary soul/rare groove and reggae nights... If you want to be detective at least follow the right scent...used to work for Fat City Records...helped promote Counter Culture...then Friends and Family...then left to promote Dont Walk my own night... Jesus!! Ill post my CV to you if you like... Now lets hear your background...starting on what makes you such an authority on everything? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest rachel Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Blimey, I thought this would cause lots of discussion but wasn't quite expecting this Beeks - I think Pete (think it was Pete, apologies if not) was right when he said that part of the reason people are reacting so negatively is that you jumped in headfirst, nobody likes a 'stranger' coming along telling them what they should do! Seem to remember some of your earlier posts were deleted for slagging people off, yep it's hard to avoid when people are passionate about things and don't agree, but it doesn't make for a good forum 'atmosphere' when things get too personal. Has to be said though that a few more established forum members have been guilty of it as well, and really should know better. I don't think it's doing anyone any good to have a thread debating one member's character and credentials so probably best to draw a line under this now. Topic closed - unless anyone can give me a very good reason to reopen it. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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