Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Guest]

Mark do you mean the Blue Rooms?

The manager there was the most fantastic guy.

I can't remember his name but I used to go two hours early and play squash with him before the night opened.

[Guest]

The LP With one more chance came from Cheapo cheapo in Soho.

Where Ady Croasdell was a barrow boy in 1976.

[Guest]

I remember Judy (big friend of Ian's who I last bumped into @ Kev's 50th Birthday)

Judy Moss.

Queen of the Wheel.

[Guest]

Nope. Crystal clear. I think I'd already spent £50 or £60 and it was an add on. I think I got him @ 8.30am just as he'd returned from a trip 'cos he kept pushing me to take it.....

Who got the four out of curiosity? Obviously yourself and Richard but who got the other two then?

Colin and Sam

[Simon T]

Ian

Years ago a saw a bit of a video of you with the Andantes in Detroit and you said something along the lines of 'Like A Nightmare' was your favourite record; why is it so very rare and why didn't they get loads of record released in their own right, did they say?

[Guest]

Ian

Years ago a saw a bit of a video of you with the Andantes in Detroit and you said something along the lines of 'Like A Nightmare' was your favourite record; why is it so very rare and why didn't they get loads of record released in their own right, did they say?

I sold my copy for a thousand quid way way back in 1991.

It was never my favourite record though - but it's very very rare.

[Guest]

Ian

Years ago a saw a bit of a video of you with the Andantes in Detroit and you said something along the lines of 'Like A Nightmare' was your favourite record; why is it so very rare and why didn't they get loads of record released in their own right, did they say?

Those girls spent all day in the studio, singing background vocals on ten songs a day. Their minds were like computers - they remembered every note and every part they had to sing, after about only two run throughs.

Berry Gordy was never going to let them have a career in their own right and have to go off and find other girls to unsuccessfully attempt to replace such rare talent, now was he ???

[Simon T]

Those girls spent all day in the studio, singing background vocals on ten songs a day. Their minds were like computers - they remembered every note and every part they had to sing, after about only two run throughs.

Berry Gordy was never going to let them have a career in their own right and have to go off and find other girls to unsuccessfully attempt to replace such rare talent, now was he ???

Do you think that was the same situation with writers / producers that aspired to be Motown recording stars too?

Edited August 27, 2008 by Simon T

[Mark B]

The manager there was the most fantastic guy.

I can't remember his name but I used to go two hours early and play squash with him before the night opened.

Hi ian

yes the blue rooms.

the football was played in the car park after you and colin finished richard searling took over form you and colin andhe had dave evison with him everyone used to go and play football when dave was on

as i said second best only to the Blackpool Mecca when you and colin dj's there, think you also took a chance with quite a lot of stuff before playing at Blackpool.

mark

[Jaco]

Hi ian

yes the blue rooms.

the football was played in the car park after you and colin finished richard searling took over form you and colin andhe had dave evison with him everyone used to go and play football when dave was on

as i said second best only to the Blackpool Mecca when you and colin dj's there, think you also took a chance with quite a lot of stuff before playing at Blackpool.

mark

That's how I remember it too, Mark. Lots of stuff "prepped" for the Mecca, so there was every chance that you would hear future classics, for the first time at Sale. Great nights and I probably didn't miss one whilst it was on.

Ian, do you remember a short lived spell at the Welcome Inn(?) in Blackpool on a Friday night?

I remember driving from Rochdale, which was not an easy trip, pre motorway days, only to find that it wasn't on. We were gutted!

On another night the decks packed in and we took you back to your house to pick relacement decks up, if I remember rightly.

On another night John Peel turned up as the vibe of the scene was being picked up by the mainstream music press and he published a column in Sounds the following week about the scene.

Unbelievable days and so great to reminisce about.

[Guest]

That's how I remember it too, Mark. Lots of stuff "prepped" for the Mecca, so there was every chance that you would hear future classics, for the first time at Sale. Great nights and I probably didn't miss one whilst it was on.

Ian, do you remember a short lived spell at the Welcome Inn(?) in Blackpool on a Friday night?

I remember driving from Rochdale, which was not an easy trip, pre motorway days, only to find that it wasn't on. We were gutted!

On another night the decks packed in and we took you back to your house to pick relacement decks up, if I remember rightly.

On another night John Peel turned up as the vibe of the scene was being picked up by the mainstream music press and he published a column in Sounds the following week about the scene.

Unbelievable days and so great to reminisce about.

Used to go to The welcome as well!! Was it in Marston? A nice little Friday night crowd, The odd Soul quiz and dance contest thrown in for good measure, I too remember JP being in Blackpool! Andy.

[Jaco]

Used to go to The welcome as well!! Was it in Marston? A nice little Friday night crowd, The odd Soul quiz and dance contest thrown in for good measure, I too remember JP being in Blackpool! Andy.

Andy, yes it was in Marston.

As you say, a nice little Friday night crowd and a good warm up for the weekend.

Mike J

[Ady Croasdell]

Where Ady Croasdell was a barrow boy in 1976.

1973

[Ady Croasdell]

Not all THAT wrong.

I noticed Ady Croasdell had a sound clip on Dore next to his name, so I listened to it, expecting some West Coast Mirwood type 100mph zinger that I had somehow never heard before.

Oh dear .................................

I have no idea what you're talking about here; I don't think I've ever done soundclips, I'm not sure what they are.

[Reg]

I have no idea what you're talking about here; I don't think I've ever done soundclips, I'm not sure what they are.

Ady, I think Ian means the "last played clip" under your avatar - its the last refosoul thing you've played

[Pete S]

I have no idea what you're talking about here; I don't think I've ever done soundclips, I'm not sure what they are.

He means when you listen to a track thats been posted up, it automatically lists itself next to your name on the left hand side as "last track played".

[Ady Croasdell]

I met Dave Godin in 1968, when I was fourteen.

I am pictured with him in the 1971 Blues And Soul when he came to Blackpool Mecca.

Whatever he may have decided later, and no matter what Ady Croasdell may say or think to the contrary, I can assure you that in 1970 and 1971 he coined the phrase "Soul Of The North" to basically identify the uptempo Motownesque, basically four on the floor, type of soul which was being played predominantly in clubs in the North of England, as opposed to the funkier James Brown type of soul that predominated the London Clubs.

It was a term to describe a musical genre, and was applied to brand new releases like Esther Phillips, Jackie Moore and Archie Bell, every bit as much as old releases that were being played.

In 1971, Record Corner, who supplied us all with our brand new US imports, created a section of their list called "Northern Soul". Terry Davis used this term to describe those records which sounded like Motown and were uptempo. Just as I use it NOW, thirty seven years later, to describe music that's new that still has that same basic intrinsic sound.

It most certainly NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER was used to describe a record purely because it was played up North, merely to describe an actual sound emanating from the record. Stuff like Dean Barlow and Romance Watson would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS have been referred to as Northern Soul.

And it strikes me that certain members of this list have subverted and twisted the meaning to describe what they want to mean, even to the exclusion of Motownesque uptempo records whose very existence SCREAMS the words Northern Soul.

NOT EVER.

This is so bloody tiresome, I'm trying to finish off my Garland Green comp and i have to trawl through here and correct you on the way things actually happened, as opposed to the dream world in your head! Dave told me several times that he came up with the phrase when northern kids would come down to Soul City on a Saturday looking for uptempo, usually old, imports from the mid 60s. He used to say to David Nathan. "Pass me that box of northern soul" for these kids, when they had twigged on to the kind of records they wanted and put them in a separate box. I never once heard him describe it as the Soul Of The north, I think that was just a title for one of his Blues & Soul columns.

If the kids had wanted mainly a certain style of R&B records, that would have been called northern soul. They obviously didn't but what I'm saying is it was based solely on the whereabouts of the customers, not the style of music.

[Ady Croasdell]

He means when you listen to a track thats been posted up, it automatically lists itself next to your name on the left hand side as "last track played".

Thanks, so I listen to a Dore track I don't know for research, as we own the label, and he assumes it's the sort of soul i like and somehow reflects on my taste! That follows.

I think the thread was on to Shrine at this stage so it makes even less sense.

Edited August 28, 2008 by ady croasdell

[Ady Croasdell]

Yeah had the same story broadly confirmed by several Motown artists I interviewed Ady.

Once I'd heard it once, I asked others so what really happened to Tammi Terrell?. Normally they said "Can you turn the tape recorder off and I'll tell you about it, but you mustn't print it". It's in none of the Motown books and all I ever read on it was poor Tammi had a brain tumour and died in Marvin's arms etc etc.

Not true if these stories about David's role are accurate, and they crop up too frequently not to hold any water.

Also heard some nice little corkers about BG, Little Willie John, Diana R etc....but couldn't possibly repeat those either.

Tony could use the LWJ story, but perhaps not if it's too scandalous.

[Steve Plumb]

Thanks, so I listen to a Dore track I don't know for research, as we own the label, and he assumes it's the sort of soul i like and somehow reflects on my taste! That follows.

I think the thread was on to Shrine at this stage so it makes even less sense.

Just out of interest............

You can get those 'last played clip' records next to your name even if you don't listen to them! I haven't listened to the last three or four next to my name. If you're doing a google search for a track and the soul-source refo post page comes up in the search (which it often does!) it will assign it to to your 'last played clip' part of your account! I had summat really bad on once as i was searching for something on behalf of someone. Can't remember what it was BUT I quickly found summat else to replace it with

Cheers

Steve

[Ady Croasdell]

OK, I've scanned most of it now. Can't we all just agree that he discovered everything and start another topic?

[Simsy]

[Pete S]

OK, I've scanned most of it now. Can't we all just agree that he discovered everything and start another topic?

Actually it'd be interesting to see a list of stuff found in London that made it's way up North, Mick is always telling me that he discovered more or less every record played at the Torch!

[Guest Andy BB]

When I was at school there was this swotty effeminate kid who used to get picked on all the time.

His dad was minted and I remember him going out one weekend and buying every single colour Pringle jumper available at the time in a bid to ingratiate himself with the lads who had picked on him. He even gave a few away to his new-found friends.

He was the indisputable Pringle King, he even started to get a bit cocky.

Of course, time marched on, Pringles went out and as he couldn't really go to the match he was always too late in picking up on how the fashions had changed. He was no longer the Pringle King, just the chubby kid who lived in a newsagents. I felt a bit sorry for him sometimes but then remembered how cocky he'd been.

I saw him recently walking around town in his Yellow Diamond jumper, were nearly forty now so we're all grown up and stuff, I stopped him and asked how he was doing. Turns out he'd bought a small factory and some old jumper designs and was producing the "Bringle Dyamond" in an effort to introduce a new generation to the wonders of wooly golfwear. I told him it wouldn't work, that the Dyamond Bringle was a poor imitation of the original but he wouldn't have it. He refused to move on. So I moved on.

I don't know what reminded me of that.

[Ady Croasdell]

Actually it'd be interesting to see a list of stuff found in London that made it's way up North, Mick is always telling me that he discovered more or less every record played at the Torch!

What is it with these DJs?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

1973

Yes, Ian, I was the barrow boy by 1976 after I inadvertently and non-maliciously nicked Ady's job while he was on a US record trawl.

He forgave me I think...

I can remember you coming down to see me there with James Wells, when you had "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" out, and asking me to take him to a gay club because "you're broadminded" - bet you don't remember that one!

We also took Barbara Pennington to a club in Sutton, Surrey when she was promoting "24 Hours A Day". I gave her a red mohair sweater of which I was particularly fond. Wonder if she still has it?

Edited August 28, 2008 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Actually it'd be interesting to see a list of stuff found in London that made it's way up North, Mick is always telling me that he discovered more or less every record played at the Torch!

I'll happily send you a list of my own early discoveries offsite, Pete - there are quite a few, as Ian would confirm - but I'm not really the boastful type where public forums are concerned

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually it'd be interesting to see a list of stuff found in London that made it's way up North, Mick is always telling me that he discovered more or less every record played at the Torch!

Tons of stuff was found in London in the early 70's! I think Ian acknowledged Tony Rounce's turning up of most of the RCA stuff. The Del-Lark's came from Jim Wilson's place in Shoreditch and whenever any of us made the pilgrimage to London in those days the meeting point would be Cheapo Cheapo's in Berwick Street where things like The Ideals, The Differences, The Heartbreakers, And The Echoes and The Vontastics were all available for the princely sum of 25p I seem to remember - Ady will probably recall some others. Dave was further up the street, downstairs in Harlequin Records, where, if you were dead lucky, you might prise a mega-rarity out of him.

I always wondered whether anything huge came out of Contempo Records? Also, did John Abbey have some goodies in his collection (think the second James Fountain came from him didn't it?). Also wasn't Eddie Foster found in London?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yes, Ian, I was the barrow boy by 1976 after I inadvertently and non-maliciously nicked Ady's job while he was on a US record trawl.

He forgave me I think...

I can remember you coming down to see me there with James Wells, when you had "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" out, and asking me to take him to a gay club because "you're broadminded" - bet you don't remember that one!

We also took Barbara Pennington to a club in Sutton, Surrey when she was promoting "24 Hours A Day". I gave her a red mohair sweater of which I was particularly fond. Wonder if she still has it?

Was Ady's US record trawl the one where he found Guy Mark's "Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" and turned it into a UK Top 40 hit in the process?

Ian D

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Was Ady's US record trawl the one where he found Guy Mark's "Loving You Has Made Me Bananas" and turned it into a UK Top 40 hit in the process?

Ian D

Wasnt Ady - we have Ian 'Ginger' Stewart to thank for that one!

[Ritchieandrew]

I,ve still got a Levine must go badge but don,t tell Ian

So have I, along with about fifty good internal shots of the Mecca & Ritz from 1974 to 1977, taken by Trevor Groves. Also a Blackpool Mecca

blazer badge made from wire (Not unlike your Avatar) Regarding the Magnetics on Bonnie, Colin bought it off Bob Foster @ the end of the summer of 1976, he came down to buy it after Bob took it to Sale Mecca the previous thursday. Whether he ever played it at the Mecca I dont know but I remember vividly the day he bought it, which is a story in itself ! Regarding the photo's all the "usual suspects" are on them Ian Levine, Jack Bollington,

Shelvo, Carol, Richard Watt, Mike Ritson, myself, Ric Tic, Colin Curtis, pus shots of the dance floor @ both the Ritz & Mecca (including Ian & Carol Jiving) etc etc.

I'll have to dig them out and I MIGHT put up a few on here............if anybodys Interested.

Best regards Ritchie.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Wasnt Ady - we have Ian 'Ginger' Stewart to thank for that one!

Ian D

[Guest]

Do you think that was the same situation with writers / producers that aspired to be Motown recording stars too?

That's why the Frank Wilson records were all destroyed.

[Guest]

On another night John Peel turned up as the vibe of the scene was being picked up by the mainstream music press and he published a column in Sounds the following week about the scene.

That was in 1973, when he came up and interviewed me for Radio One as well.

[Guest]

Ian, do you remember a short lived spell at the Welcome Inn(?) in Blackpool on a Friday night?

It wasn't all that short lived.

I did it for Pete Schofield (Scoey).

[Guest]

1973

Well you were still a barrow boy in 1976 because I used to buy any copies of my own early releases that came in, as the record companies were so measly and only allowed me one or two free samples of them. And you used to keep them for me, and this was most definitely in 1976.

[Guest]

I have no idea what you're talking about here; I don't think I've ever done soundclips, I'm not sure what they are.

By your name on here, it still says...

Slim & The Twilites-Family Man-Dore

That's the one I listened to and wished I hadn't.

It says last played clip - I guess that you listened to it when someone else posted it up, but it's still stuck by your name as you will see if you look.

[Davetay]

Yes the blue rooms used to be in there with my brother Paul. his friend steve riley, John Hilel and all the streford and sale lot. Tony jackson, Peter Burgess (Budgie), Mike Hutchinson (Hutchie) John Roche (Ross), Siz, Imelda and Eugene, Janice, Hliary Mee, my friend Sharon, Jackie and Sue from stockport, Hilary (now Budgies wife) her mate Moira, and not forgetting Al Birkhead.

Happy Days

mark

We want a few times we used to catch the bus down from town (half-fare)

I still see John Hillel about, but see alot more of his brother Richard.

Edited August 28, 2008 by davetay

[Guest]

This is so bloody tiresome, I'm trying to finish off my Garland Green comp and i have to trawl through here and correct you on the way things actually happened, as opposed to the dream world in your head! Dave told me several times that he came up with the phrase when northern kids would come down to Soul City on a Saturday looking for uptempo, usually old, imports from the mid 60s. He used to say to David Nathan. "Pass me that box of northern soul" for these kids, when they had twigged on to the kind of records they wanted and put them in a separate box. I never once heard him describe it as the Soul Of The north, I think that was just a title for one of his Blues & Soul columns.

If the kids had wanted mainly a certain style of R&B records, that would have been called northern soul. They obviously didn't but what I'm saying is it was based solely on the whereabouts of the customers, not the style of music.

The first column about it, in October 1970 was called "Soul Of The North"

That was the very first time he used the phrase IN BLUES AND SOUL.

The following year, he changed his public use of the phrase to "Northern Soul" when he visited Blackpool Mecca in 1971.

He may well have called it "Northern Soul" privately to David Nathan, but the first public use of the term was "Soul Of The North".

Sorry to be pedantic.

[Guest]

OK, I've scanned most of it now. Can't we all just agree that he discovered everything and start another topic?

Ooooooooooh. Bitchy bitchy.

[Ady Croasdell]

Well you were still a barrow boy in 1976 because I used to buy any copies of my own early releases that came in, as the record companies were so measly and only allowed me one or two free samples of them. And you used to keep them for me, and this was most definitely in 1976.

I'm pleased you know more about my own life than I do. I could have sworn I worked there 1973-74 when I went on my US trip and lost my job when i came back. Now you've corrected me on my life, I must be 54 instead of 56, and it must be the 6TS 27th anniversary this year. At least I'll be able to have another Kent's 25th celebration next year now!

[Guest]

When I was at school there was this swotty effeminate kid who used to get picked on all the time.

His dad was minted and I remember him going out one weekend and buying every single colour Pringle jumper available at the time in a bid to ingratiate himself with the lads who had picked on him. He even gave a few away to his new-found friends.

He was the indisputable Pringle King, he even started to get a bit cocky.

Of course, time marched on, Pringles went out and as he couldn't really go to the match he was always too late in picking up on how the fashions had changed. He was no longer the Pringle King, just the chubby kid who lived in a newsagents. I felt a bit sorry for him sometimes but then remembered how cocky he'd been.

I saw him recently walking around town in his Yellow Diamond jumper, were nearly forty now so we're all grown up and stuff, I stopped him and asked how he was doing. Turns out he'd bought a small factory and some old jumper designs and was producing the "Bringle Dyamond" in an effort to introduce a new generation to the wonders of wooly golfwear. I told him it wouldn't work, that the Dyamond Bringle was a poor imitation of the original but he wouldn't have it. He refused to move on. So I moved on.

I don't know what reminded me of that.

"You are ignoring this user".

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Last night I found an old copy of "Collectors Soul" fanzine, run by Tony Berry from down this way around 1969/70, and in a column on obscure Motown by Ian the first single reviewed is the Dalton Boys...wish I'd taken notice then and not waited until it went big...

[Guest]

I can remember you coming down to see me there with James Wells, when you had "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" out, and asking me to take him to a gay club because "you're broadminded" - bet you don't remember that one!

No. Now THAT one I don't remember.

So DID you ?????

Edited August 28, 2008 by Ian Levine

[Guest]

The Del-Lark's came from Jim Wilson's place in Shoreditch

It bloody well did not.

It came from Eileen and Col Newton in 1971. They got eight copies from Bernie Bennick (or however you spell it) in Philadelphia. They gave one free to me and one to Les Cokell, and sold the other six for a quid each.

Me and Les were the two "best man"s at their wedding.

They ABSOLUTELY discovered the Del Larks.

[Davetay]

Didn't discover either Joe Matthews first. I had Lenny Curtis in 1973, but didn't play it much. All the others were my little babies, especially Mel Britt.

Ian, who found J M "Ain,t nothing you can do" first.

I,ve got a tape from the Mecca Aug 74 with in on.

Also got a tape from Wigan Jan 76 with Richard saying the new sound of N S 1976, which i though was quite funny.

Dave.

[Ady Croasdell]

By your name on here, it still says...

Slim & The Twilites-Family Man-Dore

That's the one I listened to and wished I hadn't.

It says last played clip - I guess that you listened to it when someone else posted it up, but it's still stuck by your name as you will see if you look.

As Andy or someone else said, its random and for you to sneer at my listening to it when I've never even heard it, then I like to point that out. I will now listen to it and give you my view, but please don't think that every record I listen to is the epitome of my Northern Soul taste.

[Guest]

Also wasn't Eddie Foster found in London?

Ian D

No, I found it in 1973 in some non-Northern records at John Anderson's which hadn't been properly sorted.

He used to let me buy one each of the odd one-offs on obscure labels for 25p each, for my collection, on the condition that I phoned him and alerted him to any that turned out to be Northern, in case he had more multiples.

I was blown away by the intro, and it was the best unexpected find I ever had from Kings Lynn.

It went massive the following weekend, instantly, and ended up the subject of Tony Cummings' most legendary article for Black Music magazine.

[Ady Croasdell]

The first column about it, in October 1970 was called "Soul Of The North"

That was the very first time he used the phrase IN BLUES AND SOUL.

The following year, he changed his public use of the phrase to "Northern Soul" when he visited Blackpool Mecca in 1971.

He may well have called it "Northern Soul" privately to David Nathan, but the first public use of the term was "Soul Of The North".

Sorry to be pedantic.

As I said Soul Of The North was an article heading not a description of a type of music, that came later as Northern Soul which he had been using for some time. Sorry to be pedantic.

[Davetay]

It wasn't all that short lived.

I did it for Pete Schofield (Scoey).

Scoey,s near the Winter Gardens, mid week used to go there as well.

Summer of 74.