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Pork Pie & Oven Chip Auction

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I have been monitoring a certain UK auction over the last year or so, and here's a list of some of the mad prices paid:

FORTSON & SCOTT - SWEET LOVER - PZAZZ £1608

DANA VALERY - YOU DON'T KNOW - COLUMBIA DEMO £405

WE THE PEOPLE - MAKING MY DAYDREAM REAL - LION 134

GENE MCDANIELS - WALK WITH A WIN - LIB AUSTRALIA £133

CHARISMA BAND - AIN'T NOTHING LIKE YOUR - BUDDAH £318

DEE DEE SHARP - WHAT KIND OF LADY - GAMBLE DEMO £202

VIRGINIA WOLVES - STAY - STATESIDE DEMO £61

JERRY NAYLOR - CITY LIGHTS - TOWER £310

CAROL AND GERRI - HOW CAN I EVER FIND - MGM ISSUE £580

PRINCE PHILIP MITCHELL - I'M SO HAPPY - ATLANTIC £537

HERMAN LEWIS - WHO'S KISSING YOU ? - STONE BLUE £1907

EULA COOPER - LET OUR LOVE GROW - SUPER SOUND £707

JASON KNIGHT - LOVE IS GETTING STRONGER - PYE DEMO £362

CONSTRUCTION - HEY LITTLE WAY OUT GIRL - SYNC 6 £257

RITA DA COSTA - BRING ME DOWN - MOHAWK DEMO £203

MIND & MATTER - I'M UNDER YOUR SPELL - M&M £670

CONTOURS - DO YOU LOVE ME - UK ORIOLE DEMO £66

PRESTON LOVE - CISSY POPCORN - HUDSON £286

SKIP MAHONEY - JANICE - SALSOUL DEMO £252

AL WILLIAMS - I AM NOTHING C/W - LA BEAT ISSUE £2563

DEE DEE SHARP - DEEP DARK SECRET C/W GOOD - CAMEO £353

SAM & KITTY - I'VE GOT SOMETHING - FOUR BROS DEMO £190

P.P. ARNOLD - EVERYTHING'S - FRENCH COLUMBIA EP £163

KENNY CARLTON - LOST AND FOUND - BLUE ROCK £346

MARVELETTES - I'LL KEEP ON HOLDING - TAMLA £98

BOBBY SHEEN - DOCTOR LOVE - UK CAPITOL TEST PRESS £131

NINO TEMPO & 5TH. AVE SAX - SISTER JAMES - A&M £104

BROWN SUGAR - THE GAME IS OVER - CAPITOL £163

J. J. BARNES - REAL HUMDINGER - AUTOGRAPHED DEMO £102

UNIQUE BLEND - YES I'M IN LOVE - EASTBOUND DEMO £389

MARGARET MANDOLF - SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL - DOT £500

STEVE MANCHA - FRIDAY NIGHT - GROOVESVILLE DEMO £275

MAGNIFICENTS - THERE CAN BE A BETTER WAY - DEMO £1504

MASQUERADERS - HOW - LA BEAT DEMO £1107

IRMA THOMAS - WHAT ARE YOU - UK LIBERTY DEMO £224

WIL COLLINS- ANYTHING I CAN DO - BAREBACK DEMO 464

TWO PEOPLE - STOP, LEAVE MY HEART - REVUE DEMO £180

SEVEN SOUL - I STILL LOVE YOU - OKEH £461

ART FREEMAN - SLIPPIN' AROUND - ITALIAN AT + PS £201

EDWIN STARR - MY WEAKNESS IS YOU - TAMLA MOTOWN £253

BOB AND FRED - I'LL BE ON MY WAY - BIG MACK 2045

DE-LITES - LOVER - CUPPY 1711

MICHEAL LIGGINS - LOADED TO THE GILLS - MIGHTY 181

ALEXANDER PATTON - A LIL LOVIN' SOMETIMES - CAPITOL 358

JIMMY REDD JR. - I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE - MERCURY 251

ANN SEXTON - YOU'VE BEEN GONE TOO LONG - IMPEL 457

THREE DEGREES - CONTACT - WB 74

GARNETT MIMMS - LOOKING - UNITED ARTISTS UK ISSIE 150

MATTHEW BARNETT - IF YOUR LOVE IS REAL - PUFF 419

FUTURES - PARTY TIME MAN - PHILADELPHIA INT 182

BILLY ARNELL AND THE SPARKLES - TOUGH GIRL - HOLLY 832

ERNIE WASHINGTON - LONESOME SHACK - CHATTAHO 258

HERB WARD - STRANGE CHANGE - ARGO 400

MARVELETTES - KNOCK ON MY DOOR - RCA ACETATE 932

STEMMONS EXPRESS - WOMAN, LOVE THIEF - WAND 356

JACKIE EDWARDS - I FEEL SO BAD - ISLAND 421

HERB WARD - HONEST TO GOODNESS - RCA 306

LARRY ALLEN - CAN'T WE TALK IT OVER - GREEN DOLPHIN 381

DARRELL BANKS - I'M THE ONE WHO - UK STAX DEMO 155

BELOYD - TODAY ALL DAY C/W GET INTO - 20TH. CENTURY 204

KELLY GARRET - LOVE'S THE ONLY ANSWER - SMASH 231

THE MIGHTY LOVERS - MIGHTY LOVER - BOO-GA-LOO 250

HERBERT HUNTER - I WAS BORN TO LOVE YOU - SPAR 250

DEAN COURTNEY - YOU JUST CAN'T WALK AWAY - MGM 255

ULTIMATES - GIRL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL - BR-ROMA 426

DEE DEE WARWICK - WORTH EVERY TEAR I - MERCURY UK 207

DON VARNER - TEARSTAINED FACE - QUINVY 691

KENNY WELLS - ISN'T IT JUST A SHAME - NEW VOICE DEMO 543

OTHER ONES - THE TWO OF US - KNOLL 300

HERB JOHNSON - I'M SO GLAD (I FOUND YOU) - TOXAN 307

GLORIA JONES - TAINTED LOVE - CHAMPION DEMO 202

MAJESTICS - (I LOVE HER SO MUCH) IT HURTS ME - LINDA 519

OTIS SMITH LET HER GO ? PERCEPTION WD 240

SWISS MOVEMENT - I WISH OUR LOVE 204

RICHARD LACKY = LOVE SHOPPING 401

AL WILLIAMS I AM NOTHINGWD 1423

ARNOLD BLAIR TRYING TO GET NEXT TO YOU155

ARTHUR FREEMAN - YOU GOT ME UPTIGHT 650

BERNIE WILLIAMS EVER AGAIN ISSUE 2350

BLENDERS = LOVE HAS GOT ME DOWN 720

BOBBY HILL TELL ME YOU LOVE ME 308

BOBBY REED TIME BELL WD 608

BRICE COLEFIELD - AIN?T IT RIGHT 404

BROTHER GILMORE ? FEEL A SONG 998

BURNING BUSH 1025

CHANDLERS - YOU LOVE362

CHAPTER 5 - YOU CAN?T MEAN IT 480

COLLINS & COLLINS TOP OF THE STAIRS284

CORNEL GUNTER - LOVE IN MY HEART TOGETHER 425

DEAN COURTNEY 300

DRIZA BONE PRESSURE UK 175

EDDIE FOSTER = I NEVER KNEW 307

EXCUSE - TRICK BAG 406

FIRE ESCAPE FROM CUBA BAY TOWN FUNK 336

FOUR PERFECTION - IM NOT STRONG ENOUGH 405

GEORGE KIRBY -WHAT SHOULD I DO 209

HAMILTON MOVEMENT - SHE?S GONE 1250

IMAGINATIONS - STRANGE NEIGHTBOURHOOD ISSUE 438

JACK MONGOMERY DEAR BELOVED WD 275

JAMES BARNETT - - KEEP ON TALKING WD 273

JAMES PHELPS LOOK 453

JIMMY FRAZER - HOPES, DREAMS WD 420

JOANIE SUMMERS ? DON?T PITY MEWD 390

JOANNE CORCY - I GOT THE PWER1200

JOE VALANTIN - LOST THE ONLY LOVE463

KENNY - IS?T JUST A SHAME207

LITTLE RICHIE - JUST ANOTHER DEMO 957

BUDDY SMITH - WHEN YOU LOSE THE ONE - BRUTE 1200

DEAN BARLOW - THIRD WINDOW FROM THE RIGHT - LESCAY 416

PAMELA BEATY - TAKLING EYES - TIP 312

ROSE BATTISTE - I MISS MY BABY - REVILOT DEMO 306

DUKE BROWNER - CRYING OVER YOU C/W

LITTLE STANLEY OUT A SITE LOVIN 2300

MAJESTICS = LOVE HER SO MUCH DEMO 398

MAJOR LANCE UM UM UK EP 77

MANDRILL = TOO LATE CANADIAN ISSUE 97

MARION STEWART ? LOSING 316

METROS SINCE GERMAN EP 256

MOSES DILLARD = PICTURE 427

NARTURAL 4 HANGING OM A LIE 479

NIKKY NEWALKERS ?WOMAN 400

OTIS SMITH WD 240

PAUL SINBAD FRENCH EP 360

PEOPLES CHOICE SVING 1ST ISSUE 449

PRESTON LOVE CISY POPCORN HUDSON FUNK 250

PURPLE MUNDI (2ND ISSUE) 750

RAY POLLARD DRIFTER WD 350

RICHARD LACKY 401

RON HENDERSON GEMINI 446

RUBY = FEMININE 239

SAM FLETCHER - THINK 334

SEA SHELLS 257

SILKY HARGREAVED 265

SOUL COMMUNICATORS LONLY NIGHTS 375

SOUL TWINS = QUICK WD 210

STANLEY MITCHELL ISSUE 395

STEVE MANCH CALL 670

THELMA LINDSEY PREPARED 304

TIMI YURO OVER 450

VAN DYKES = SAVING ISSUE 210

VIRGINIA BLAKLEY LET NOBODY 703

YUM YUMS BOOT 150

JAY TRAYNOR = UP & OVERWD 255

SAMMY GAHA - THANK YOU 500

IMAGINATION STRANGE WD 355

GWEN DOUGLAS THE PICTURE MICHELLE 320

GARLAND GREEN - GIRL I LOVE YOU C/W 40 DAYS - GAMMA 350

DEE DEE SHARP - DEEP DARK SECRET - CAMEO DEMO 250

CAROL AND GERRI - HOW CAN I EVERFIND - MGM DEMO 379

ESSEX IV - MY REACTION TO YOU - WIND MILL 565

MAJOR HARRIS - CALL ME TOMORROW - EPIC 250

BROWN SUGAR - THE GAME IS OVER - CAPITOL DEMO 600

A BROTHER'S GUIDING - GETTING TOGETHER - DEMO 360

SUGAR AND THE SPICES - HAVE FAITH IN ME - SWAN DEMO 399

J.J.BARNES - PLEASE LET ME IN - RIC TIC DEMO 300

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i dont usually comment on what people pay for sounds as i think its up to the individual to pay what they want but i have to wonder how many of these people are being mis advised

i wonder how many buy the price guide and how many people are taking advantage of newcomers to the scene.

i have been ripped off by certain dealers but after finding out i no longer use them

JERRY NAYLOR - CITY LIGHTS - TOWER £310 - i value this at 150 max probably why i aint got a copy

PRINCE PHILIP MITCHELL - I'M SO HAPPY - ATLANTIC £537 - saw a copy go for 75 last week , buy the lp for 20

MIND & MATTER - I'M UNDER YOUR SPELL - M&M £670

nice track but some have been found i hear in the large haul so value will be affected

DEE DEE SHARP - DEEP DARK SECRET C/W GOOD - CAMEO £353

even manship admits this was a tenner a few years ago peoplejust getting silly

SAM & KITTY - I'VE GOT SOMETHING - FOUR BROS DEMO £190

offerred this for 75

FUTURES - PARTY TIME MAN - PHILADELPHIA INT 182 whos paying this amount for this rubbish alright it packing the floor but is it northern?

COLLINS & COLLINS TOP OF THE STAIRS284 nice tune but get the lp its got an even better track ,paid 50 for demo lp

DRIZA BONE PRESSURE UK 175 come on paid 3 quid for my copy

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(I would be grateful if the mad *&%$3%*@'s who bought the Carol & Gerri, Prince Philip Mitchel plus the Masqueraders and Al Williams for that matter in recent weeks to post up their emails , as apparently I now have ten's of thousand of pounds worth of vinyl to sell them!)

FYTP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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My profuse apologies Jake for any offence caused. There's been enough s*** fying about the forum this evening, without me putting my foot in it too. I guess your a vinyl junkie like me and from your post are very passionate about you sounds and collecting!

(apology to Mike too)

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I sincerely hope the tax man is watching the auction receipts.

PS Love the title of the topic which is very helpful in identifying the culprit (if we didn't already know who you were talking about).

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PRINCE PHILIP MITCHELL - I'M SO HAPPY - ATLANTIC £537 - saw a copy go for 75 last week  , buy the lp for 20

FUTURES - PARTY TIME MAN - PHILADELPHIA INT 182 whos paying this amount for this rubbish alright it packing the floor but is it northern?

DRIZA BONE PRESSURE UK 175 come on paid 3 quid for my copy

Prince Philip Mitchell along with Ace Spectrum you couldn't give away at one time, oh how times change. Ace Spectrum was multi million seller in the states wasn't it??

Futures utter shite, failed disco record IMO and the sooner demand disappears ther better IMO.

Drizzabone again bought as a new release and must be 100's about. If anyone want s one theyb can have minew for £150 ;-)

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JUST READ THE LIST THAT HIPPO MUST HAVE TOOK AGES TO COMPILE AND TYPE!! CAN'T BELIVE SOME OF THEM PRICES FOR SOME VERY AVEARGE RECORDS . THE ONE THAT JUMPS OUT IS THE YUM YUMS - £150 FOR A BOOT! DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT HAD BEEN BOOTED. CHRIST WHAT DOES AN ORIGINAL FGO FOR THEN? OH DEAR I HAVE PUT A WANTED POST OUT FOR THE SQUIRES - ANY ONE WHO WANTS TO SELL ONE PLEASE BE REALISTIC.

CHEERS

GRANT

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Preasure is a great toon, but it has been absolutely hammered to death, pse leave it alone. Also any self respecting collector can go down thier local second hand record shop & find copies of this. I bought the 7' as a new release, but also have it in several different remixes etc on 12'. Not a hard one at all, & complete madness to be bidding in an auction on this, who are these people???

Also IMO you cannot blame the record dealers for the stupid prices that some people are prepared to pay in auctions, nobody is twisting thier arms.

Cheers Russ

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THAT'S RIGHT RUSS. I THINK IVE SAID THAT ON HERE BEFORE, IT IS ALL ABOUT HOW MUCH U R PREPARED TO PAY TO GET HOLD OF THAT ELUSIVE RECORD. RATHER THAN BE PATIENT WE SOMETIMES JUMP IN AND GRAB SOMETHING WHATEVER IT COSTS ONLY TO SEE IT HALF THE PRICE NEXT WEEK. HINDSIGHT IS A WONDERFUL THING EH. GREAT FOR THE DEALERS (OR ANYONE ELSE SELLING ANYTHING ON AUCTIONS), THATS WHAT THEY ARE IN IT FOR, TO MAKE MONEY. BUT STILL THE MIND BOGGLES OVER SOME OF THOSE PRICES FROM HIPPOS POST.

GRANT

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Grant,

I believe Kevin Cox in Canada had a copy of "Don't Accuse Me" by the Squires for £90. Drop him a line, and good luck:

arctic-soul@rogers.com

The Yum Yums was first booted in 1975. As a lookalike, it's so good, some people are still puzzled at a first glance!! It was done at the same time as another ABC lookalike, "Playin' Hide & Seek" by Eddie Regan. I believe an original Yum Yums demo goes for about £500, but a black issue is more likely to fetch around £1,000.

Gene

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"Value is a matter of opinion"

Two opinions count, 1) the seller and 2) the buyer. Some of us (including me) don't always like this but what can you? It's the same in any walk of life, someone is always prepared to pay that little bit more than someone else to own something they covet!!

Sometime soon the bottom is likely to fall out of the NS market as the serious collectors get older and sell off their collections (can't take them with us unfortunately) and in the process releasing plenty of vinyl onto the market. But! who will be there to snap them up? Without some serious new younger blood will there be a scene to cater for all this vinyl????

Any newer, younger person (unless they have the influence of a soulie father/mother) to the scene is more than likely gonna go for cd's as this is what they are growing up with unlike most of us who grew up with vinyl only for a long time.

Thoughts?

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HI CHALKY

YEAH I THINK YOU MAY BE RIGHT, THE BOTTOM WILL FALL OUT OF THE NS MARKET EVENTUALLY. HOW MANY OFFSPRING NOWADAYS GET INTO THE NORTHERN THRU MUM & DAD? VERY FEW I SUSPECT SO MAYBE THE MARKET TO SELL TO WILL GET SMALLER TOO AND AS MANY OF US DECIDE TO 'CASH-IN' OUR COLLECTIONS WHO WILL BUY ? RESULTING IN SIGNIFICANT DROP IN PRICE FOR MANY HIGH 'VALUE' RECORDS OF TODAY. IT IS DEFINITELY A SELLERS MARKET AT THE MO, BUT HOW LONG IT CAN GO FOR, TIME WILL TELL.

P.S. CHALKY - FOUND THAT TAPE, WILL COPY TRACK OVER W/END AND SEND ONTO YOU

GRANT

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HI CHALKY

YEAH I THINK YOU MAY BE RIGHT, THE BOTTOM WILL FALL OUT OF THE NS MARKET EVENTUALLY. HOW MANY OFFSPRING NOWADAYS GET INTO THE NORTHERN THRU MUM & DAD? VERY FEW I SUSPECT SO MAYBE THE MARKET TO SELL TO WILL GET SMALLER TOO AND AS MANY OF US DECIDE TO 'CASH-IN' OUR COLLECTIONS WHO WILL BUY ? RESULTING IN SIGNIFICANT DROP IN PRICE FOR MANY HIGH 'VALUE' RECORDS OF TODAY. IT IS DEFINITELY A SELLERS MARKET AT THE MO, BUT HOW LONG IT CAN GO FOR, TIME WILL TELL.

P.S. CHALKY - FOUND THAT TAPE, WILL COPY TRACK OVER W/END AND SEND ONTO YOU

GRANT

Hi Grant. I look round at nighters and there doesn't seem to be many young serious collectors rooting through boxes. They don't have the history that we do, vinyl only, as they grew up with cds and maybe have no qulams about playing from this format, unless like I said they have the guiding hand of a soulie father.

How many young serious DJs are there? Not many at all.

I know the scene is going through some kind of revival with interest from the marketing world, tv etc but how long will this last? How many newcomers will stay and do things as they have been done in the past?

Looking forward to the track!!

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Prince Philip Mitchell along with Ace Spectrum you couldn't give away at one time, oh how times change. Ace Spectrum was multi million seller in the states wasn't it??

Futures utter shite, failed disco record IMO and the sooner demand disappears ther better IMO.

Drizzabone again bought as a new release and must be 100's about. If anyone want s one theyb can have minew for £150 ;-)

Please someone buy Chalkys copy :-)))

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as a buyer how many times have people been "had" on e-bay, either poor quality or total rip off. also someone with bidsniper or enters 9999999 with seconds to go as mentioned before in these columns. at least with the auction site in question you get a genuine chance of winning in a " true auction" style format & if you are not happy he'll always have it back. having said all that i do agree that prices are ridiculous.

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Slightly aside to the original post, and in response to Chalky in a kind of rambling bored at work kind of way....

I'm in my mid 20's. I only collect original 45s (funk, northern and modern). I'm waiting for the old gits to get fed up and sell me their Eddie Parker, Man-o-Man, Joseph Webster's etc.

"How many newcomers will stay and do things as they have been done in the past?"

Well, I think this is half the problem. Why should a 'youngster' like me be interested in doing things how they were done in the past? Why am I interested in what you danced to in 1982 in some working club up north? And if that is my attitude, then why should a promoter book me to DJ? Because as long as the 'scene' continues to keep one foot in the past with all this 'newie' and 'oldie' attitude, I don't think anybody like me would be interested in DJing at nights that, I'm afraid to say, are ulitimatly retro nights full of people who want to remember their teenage years and fond memories of how it used to be back in the day.

Nothing wrong with that, if that is what you're into. I just don't want to entertain those kind of people.

Having said that, every soul night I go to, I always meet someone who shares my attitude. They are however, always in the very small minority, but are often the DJ!!!!!

If you compare the UK soul scene to the European and Japanese soul scene's, you'll find that the younger fresher scene's without a blinkered approach will get a packed dance floor if a 'new' record is played that is fresh to them, while over here in the UK it can take many months or even years to 'break' a new record in. That says to me that if a new record clears a dance floor in the UK, then the dance floor is not full of music fans, but is full of people who are only interested in reliving memories. It also says to me there is a certain arrogance amongst the crowds. A kind of 'I've been on the scene for 20 years, if I don't know this record then it can't be any good' kind of thing going on.

As long as that continues I don't think you'll get many 'young' people getting into the 'scene', especially as DJs.

I don't want to offend people by saying that, and I may be wrong in my attitude, it's just the way I see it from where I'm standing.

Saying that, I saw alot of young people at Crossfire the other week. Mostly mods spilling beer all over the dance floor, but they were having a good time. I don't see many 'youngsters' outside of London though.

Each to their own. But I don't think people need to worry about the bottom falling out of the market. As long as there is good music, there will be people wanting to buy it.

Bored at work rant over....

ps. I bid on the above person's auction for the Brothers Gilmore. I bid somethign like £1250. I didn't win it. One week later I won it for $500 (read dollars) on ebay. Be carefull out there people.

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Mr Trouble. I was trying to find you Sunday avo last weekend. Had that copy of the Pages to show you.

Good way to meet prople tho, wandering round with a pack of cardboard with a record in.

Next nighter I go to I'm taking an empty pack. Its my cover-up thats too rare to be made!!

LOL

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Hi Mikey,

I went home Sunday afternoon. Sorry, some of us had to get up Monday morning for work! Besides, I don't think my feet could have taken any more damage after Friday night, Saturday afternoon/evening.

Where do you live? I'm going to that do in the Kettering area this Saturday. Is it at Wickstead? I can't remember, I don't think it's on the event guide on this site. I better find out before I set off:-/

Nice meeting you Saturday though BTW!

See you soon

Trouble.

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If you're a Londoner then you can get down to the Jazz Cafe on Sunday;-) James Bell (who was on stage at PRestatyn and will be performing there next year) of "Funky Sixteen Corners" and "Amazing Love" fame is singing with one of the UKs best funk bands "Speedometer". Should be a good show. Snowboy is DJing as well.

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Al Williams - I am nothing £1423 Wish it was that price now!

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AL WILLIAMS - I AM NOTHING C/W - LA BEAT ISSUE £2563

Thats more like it!

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Hello Uncle Mick my fave DJ of all time (is it working yet?) LOL. I will deffo have a copy by the summer, already got somoene willing to sell, just shocked at the prices/and price i may be paying! But I want it so tough luck on me I guess :-/

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hi janine, i must say you've got fantastic taste in djs. i'd better spin it next time i see you. don't mention it to irish greg he hates all these played out oldies.

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Trouble - wouldn't be a bit of ageism creeping in would there, we know you young trendy things don't like knocking about with people as old as your mum & dad, but hey, please give some of us a bit of credit will you, I've been on the scene for over 25 yrs & continue to strive to hear new sixties, crossover, Modern & new released soul constantly. The nostalgia events leave me cold & have very little to do with Northern/Rare Soul as a progressive form of music.

I am alway's very happy to see younger people on the scene & as for younger DJ's, well if they have the tunes, they'll have mine & many others full support aswell, however all i would ask is for a little courtesy & respect for some of the etiquette, if you knock some one when your dancing a quick nod is all it takes, don't take bottles & drinks on the dancefloor & generally piss people off by being obnoxious. Its not hard to see how things work, maybe i'm wrong but the more kids the better, just so long as they get it !!!

Lighten up a bit mate, go to the gigs you enjoy, if you don't wanna DJ for us old gits then start your own promotion, I don't really care as long as we're promoting soul music...........would I be allowed to come to your youngsters All-Nighters ???, or would there be an age limit ??? Wouldn't want to embarrass you in front of your mates by being old & into Soul music.

A big shout up for the New (young) soul rebels from me

cheers Russ

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These prices are mad, some of them to the point of sectionability. Is it just me or is this madness (and it is madness) unique to the northern scene?

Take stamp collecting: bonkers prices paid for little bits of paper that are worthless to everyone else. Sounds familar but philately is a world-wide scene with very, very rich people at the top and kids with Stanley Gibbons albums at the bottom. Northern soul is compressed into a few thousand collectors - collectors who are so enslaved to vinyl that they either don't see the obvious, they don't believe it or they don't care.

The 'obvious' is that the northern soul scene, in collecting terms, is dead - we just don't know it yet and we won't see the irrefutable proof for some years.

It's simple economics. When I was a kid I worked at Twycross Zoo in my summer holidays, clearing up gorilla shit and selling ice-creams. I earned £50-100 a week but that was enough to build up a bit of a collection through visits to Rudzi at Boogaloo Records in Leicester and buying stuff off the various lists.

My brother now spends his summer holidays doing the same thing (ie cleaning up after great apes). Real world inflation was killed off (or at least stunned) 20 years ago so he earns only a little more than I did...say £125 a week. But northern soul inflation is a different kettle of fish: it's like the Weimar Republic, or modern-day Argentina. One day your Sam Dees is £25, the next it's £400 and you're paying for it with a wheelbarrow, not a wallet. How can my brother even think about starting a collection now? And without new youngsters coming in to buy records, the buying culture will die. This means that there won't even be a market once the inevitable happens: one by one, people switching from collecting to selling or, more likely, dying. (Paradoxically, of course, introducing new blood would only add to inflation further because we can't just crank up the production line to meet demand.)

Many of us are to blame - I've certainly paid over the odds for records (including one of the above...tosser) from time to time and every time I do that I knock another nail in.

Wouldn't it be nice to go back to the days when you got a list through the post sent by a genuine fan and not a capitalist profiteer, a price was quoted on a record you wanted and if you were quick you got the record? No chance, unfortunately. Auctions on lists and then ebay have released the genie forever.

Very sad but there's nothing to be done. You can't even blame anyone! I'm very keen to get hold of a Walter and the Admerations and if one comes up I'll remortgage the house to get it. Equally, if I had a spare, I'd sell it for top dollar.

Bit of a ramble, this, and quite depressing to write (and read if you can be bothered) but, like everyone else I'm bored at work. I wouldn't be here but I've got a habit to feed.

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Slightly aside to the original post, and in response to Chalky in a kind of rambling bored at work kind of way....

I'm in my mid 20's. I only collect original 45s (funk, northern and modern). I'm waiting for the old gits to get fed up and sell me their Eddie Parker, Man-o-Man, Joseph Webster's etc.

"How many newcomers will stay and do things as they have been done in the past?"

Well, I think this is half the problem. Why should a 'youngster' like me be interested in doing things how they were done in the past? Why am I interested in what you danced to in 1982 in some working club up north? And if that is my attitude, then why should a promoter book me to DJ? Because as long as the 'scene' continues to keep one foot in the past with all this 'newie' and 'oldie' attitude, I don't think anybody like me would be interested in DJing at nights that, I'm afraid to say, are ulitimatly retro nights full of people who want to remember their teenage years and fond memories of how it used to be back in the day.

Nothing wrong with that, if that is what you're into. I just don't want to entertain those kind of people.

Trouble, you've mis quoted me, go back and read what I wrote. I am basically referring to the collecting scene, i.e. buying original vinyl to DJ with. I was asking if the younger newcomers would do it this way or go down the cd route, or would they be prepared to spend thousands when they might be able to get any given track on a cd? I was also asking what would happen to all the vinyl when the older collectors sell up! There aren't that many younger collectors who do it seriously and want to alos take up DJing.

Those that do will get the chance if they have the records.

Whatever any given persons taste is, at the end of the day the scene is a retro scene, old 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's soul and for this reason the scene will always have one foot in the past.

Those records we danced to in some grubby working mens club are the heart of the scene. Do you know all those records, have you heard them all? I doubt it very much because myself after 20 years am still hearing new records, records that were spun in the 80's that I missed, and I was doing two niters a week then not to mention two soul nites and more than likely an alldayer. If your not interested in those records why do you want Eddie Parker and Walter & Admerations?

Janine and myself when we go out tend to go to venues with an upfront approach, somewhere not afraid to play something new as long as it's good. If I go to an oldies only night then I don't have a problem with that either as I know what sort of nite I will be getting. I fIw anted to hear funk I'd go to a funk venue, if I want ed to hear modern I'd go to a modern venue buit i don't I want to hear 60's soul known or unknown.

At the end of the day I think you should show a least a little respect to those who danced in those grubby working mens clubs in the 80's etc. At the end of the day there is a scene for you to enjoy because of those folk and those before them.

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I'm a Londoner, at the minute, tho hope to head back to God's country (Gloucestershire), later this year.

Hope to be at Bisley on Saturday night, but It's mum's birthday and need to top up some Mikey points.

You need to top up on your Geography too Mikey by the looks of things :-) Only one God's country, glorious Yorkshire :-)

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These prices are mad, some of them to the point of sectionability. Is it just me or is this madness (and it is madness) unique to the northern scene?

Take stamp collecting: bonkers prices paid for little bits of paper that are worthless to everyone else. Sounds familar but philately is a world-wide scene with very, very rich people at the top and kids with Stanley Gibbons albums at the bottom. Northern soul is compressed into a few thousand collectors - collectors who are so enslaved to vinyl that they either don't see the obvious, they don't believe it or they don't care.

The 'obvious' is that the northern soul scene, in collecting terms, is dead - we just don't know it yet and we won't see the irrefutable proof for some years.

It's simple economics. When I was a kid I worked at Twycross Zoo in my summer holidays, clearing up gorilla shit and selling ice-creams. I earned £50-100 a week but that was enough to build up a bit of a collection through visits to Rudzi at Boogaloo Records in Leicester and buying stuff off the various lists.

My brother now spends his summer holidays doing the same thing (ie cleaning up after great apes). Real world inflation was killed off (or at least stunned) 20 years ago so he earns only a little more than I did...say £125 a week. But northern soul inflation is a different kettle of fish:

I personally think half the trouble is that the majority of collectors have paid off their mortgages, kids grown up and have plenty of ready money to spend and aren't afraid to pay over the odds. Times are gone when you could turn down a record you thought was a little expensive as you knew you would more than likely see one the following week. No one has the patience either anymore, not many prepared to shop around for the best deal.

Also the collecting scene is now worldwide, just like stamps. Even more so with the advent of the internet and auction sites like e-bay. Have sold records on e-bay to China, Japan, Australia, all over Europe and the States.

What do the dealers think? C'mon Mick (Smith) you must have one or two thoughts about this ;-)

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"How many young serious DJs are there? Not many at all.....How many newcomers will stay and do things as they have been done in the past?"

Chalky, I'm not sure I misquoted you, maybe I misunderstood you?

I also think you slightly misunderstood me, because I certainly didn't mean to dis' you. I was just bouncing an idea around mate. Don't take it personal;-)

I just found it interesting (and maybe I misunderstood you?) that you wanted 'young' DJs to do it how it was done in the past. Obviously you ment collecting, not DJing. I personally hope there are fewer people into collecting, it means there are more records for me! But I'm selfish, and somehow, I don't think that's gunna happen anyway:-(

Also, I didn't mean i wasn't interested in THE records that were played 20 years ago, I ment that I (and to be fair anybody coming into the soul scene today) would not be interested in the fact that they WERE played 20 years ago. As long as there are good records being played on a good dance floor TODAY I'm sure most folk will go home with a smile on their face, whether the records were played for the first time 20 years ago or last week!

Whatever floats your boat, my mate Jamie is into German thrash metal bands and I've got to go to his wedding which is taking place and a swedish rock festival:-( Now that is worrying!

This is far too serious and I'm starting to talk shite. Isn't there a game of football on the tele' tonight?

inoffensively ;-)

Trouble.

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"How many young serious DJs are there? Not many at all.....How many newcomers will stay and do things as they have been done in the past?"

Chalky, I'm not sure I misquoted you, maybe I misunderstood you?

I also think you slightly misunderstood me, because I certainly didn't mean to dis' you. I was just bouncing an idea around mate. Don't take it personal;-)

I just found it interesting (and maybe I misunderstood you?) that you wanted 'young' DJs to do it how it was done in the past. Obviously you ment collecting, not DJing. I personally hope there are fewer people into collecting, it means there are more records for me! But I'm selfish, and somehow, I don't think that's gunna happen anyway:-(

Also, I didn't mean i wasn't interested in THE records that were played 20 years ago, I ment that I (and to be fair anybody coming into the soul scene today) would not be interested in the fact that they WERE played 20 years ago. As long as there are good records being played on a good dance floor TODAY I'm sure most folk will go home with a smile on their face, whether the records were played for the first time 20 years ago or last week!

Whatever floats your boat, my mate Jamie is into German thrash metal bands and I've got to go to his wedding which is taking place and a swedish rock festival:-( Now that is worrying!

This is far too serious and I'm starting to talk shite. Isn't there a game of football on the tele' tonight?

inoffensively ;-)

Trouble.

Hi Trouble, nothing personal taken believe me, love a good debate ;-)

Young DJ's Mmmm...I like to see a dj play summat new and off original vinyl. Things are still done by and large as they've always been done, spinning rare soul 45's. My point is will the younger newcomers to the scene still be prepared to do this, after all it is what we were brought up on, no cd's in those days, or will they go for the easier and cheaper option when collecting.

My whole point is I don't see many young collectors in the record bars, no where near as many as us old(er) 'uns :-) What's gonna happen to all the vinyl when/if it does become avaiable and no one collects seriously like we do at the minute cause they only prefer the cd format. Will it always be vinyl after all the soul scene (and funk) are one of the few who use vinyl. Many other damce scenes use cds, mini discs and just lately have heard of MP3's being used.

Off for a drink and watch Liverpool on the idiot box (tv) ;-)

Chalkster

PS I'd be worried too about that wedding ;-))

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I would compare rare vinyl collecting to art collecting - sure, you can buy a print of Van Gogh (read: CD, MP3, etc), it looks fine but you know that only the original work (read: a rare soul 45) can give you full sensory satisfaction. So you pay money to a museum to see essentially the same picture that's on your wall. But it's not the same - it's the REAL THING. And so a little silver digital disc is cheap and the sound is essentially the same as the 45 but ultimately its just like a million other little silver discs - but a genuine 45 from Detroit or LA or Memphis is almost a living link to the past. It's an icon. It's a thing of beauty. It makes life worth living - well, that and Hibs getting to the League Cup final (now win the damn thing!). Anyway, has anyone heard Howard Tate's new album?

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Mick - see ya t the next 100 and will hold you to that spin for me xxx

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My profuse apologies Jake for any offence caused. There's been enough s*** fying about the forum this evening, without me putting my foot in it too. I guess your a vinyl junkie like me and from your post are very passionate about you sounds and collecting!

No prob's Hippo!!!!!!!

I do agree prices are getting ridiculous, but it's our passion/hobby/addiction! and i'd rather spend my hard earned dosh on Al Williams than a bloody vintage 1st class stamp!!!!!!!!! Then again, i'm sure the stamp collector being passionate/addicted to their hobby would probably say the same( although on hearing Al Williams, i'm sure they'd sell off the stamp albums, and head off to a 'nighter)!!!!!!!!

I often dream that i am Dr Who, and am able to travel back to the 6t's in my trusty Tardis(Ian Levine probably did actually ;-)...............can you imagine the thrill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All that "hot off the press" vinyl!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly though, i'm not Ian(whoops Dr Who), so i have to settle with paying what i can afford for what i really want to get! AND IF I'VE GOT ENOUGH CASH...I'LL PAY! (As long as i'm left with enough for my Dr Who monthly magazine).

Mick Smith, PLEASE tell us more stories of goodies you picked up USA???(I remember buying one of my 1st soul single-Jackie Wilson-Ushowed me how to be Happy-from you at a record fair in London for a couple of quid! (little did i know then what i was letting myself in for)!

To finish, this is now a WORLDWIDE collectors market(don't believe this, Flirtations just come on kfc advert just as i'm writing this)!!!!!!!'Cos it's worldwide prices WILL INCREASE, no doubt about it!!!!!

cheers,

Jake :-)

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not really relevant, but tell u anyway......

just watching documentary on bbc2.....a fossil Tyannosaurus skeleton went under the hammer in usa, and fetched.......

$7 MILLION, 600 THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....wonder if Frank Wilson will ever reach that??????????????????????????????????

;-) Jake

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just watching documentary on bbc2.....a fossil Tyannosaurus skeleton went under the hammer in usa, and fetched.......

$7 MILLION, 600 THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It went under the hammer??? Blimey, why would anyone want to spend that much on a fossil skeleton broken into a thousand pieces??!!!!

Gene

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In the early '70s didn't the "Northern" scene give us an excellent alternative to listening to the likes of Tyranosaurus Rex and all the other crap on Radio 1 at the time. Or were you refering to something else?

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just finished reading all these ramblings - hey pompeysoul ! thers nothin wrong with t.rex ! ... sorry, anyway one great point was made by Chalky in that you can hear a record spun at a soul do that you havent heard before but was spun originally at wigan, stafford, wherever. i for one keep hearing 'new oldies' (does that sound right?) everytime i go somewhere. i have been on the scene 25 years too. i even remember ceratin djs at stafford trying to spin betty lloyd and ray agee as 1st time rounds! (although they were wigan spins). Pat Brady once had the Ad Libs 'Johnny My Bot c/up as 'Maybe Maybe' the Magnetics when it could at the time be found on the b-side of Boy fro NY City on Contempo. So there are lots of 'oldies' around that I havent heard but also some 'newies' being spun that 'ring a bell' somewhere.

Grant

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Johnny My Bot?

Any relation to 'You Arse' by Bobby Reed, 'Don't Let The Door Hit Your Backside' by The Cashmeres or 'I'm Bumming To Your Rescure' by The Triumphs?

I'll get my coat.

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ha!ha! my guffaw well spotted Dan! Least someone is awake. Looks like you may have started another fun forum mate!! Sayin that the record is pants anyway!

Grant

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Or - worse still - Roger My Bot...

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chalky, it's very hard for me to get my head around the prices even tho that's my business. having been around so long and seeing quanties of certain tittle over the years. larry atkins i'd buy a few every week from s/bowl for £3 each sell em at 100 club £5 each.(john had at least 400 copies he got them off kent harris). other things like thelmas were £3. ac reed £3. otis lee £5. a lot of the buyers now don't know or maybe they weren't around then just how common some of these records were. so i'll just have to learn.

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Mick - I got a Larry Atkins of a friend (reduced for my xmas present) just before xmas, think he knocked about £30 off it for me in the end :-)

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chalky, it's very hard for me to get my head around the prices even tho that's my business. having been around so long and seeing quanties of certain tittle over the years. larry atkins i'd buy a few every week from s/bowl for £3 each sell em at 100 club £5 each.(john had at least 400 copies he got them off kent harris). other things like thelmas were £3. ac reed £3. otis lee £5. a lot of the buyers now don't know or maybe they weren't around then just how common some of these records were. so i'll just have to learn.

I think thats half the problem, we saw indemand records in quantity and insales boxes every week!! We look at the prices folk are paying now and just shake our head.

Personally think a lot of the returnees who missed the 80's missed an awful lot of stuff and don't realise how common or rare they are.

Also they don't IMO study sales lists and especially e-bay and see what is listed often and not so often.

I know one thoing, I couldn't afford to collect likke I did in the 80's now. I was spending £150 on records where there were only 3, 4 or 5 known copies...how much would you have to spend these days on records like that. I also wish I was selling up now and not years ago, would be living very comfortably :-(

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