Ian Levine Productions And Songs

[Guest lifeandsoul]

would it be possible to put better quality videos on vimeo? youtube is so poor.

[Guest]

Just been watching a video tape of Burnley Bank Hall Miners 18th august 1984,Pat Allen playing Exciters version of You're gonna make me love you, also we used to play Reaching for the best (Did you write this Ian?)Still sounds great.

Les Cokell, Great person to be with,he used to come over too Brads in Colne all the time. I remember once about 8 of us went to the Torch in his little van and on the way home we stopped at the sevices and nobody saw him for about 3 hours while he went on a walkabout to come down a little.

Geoff Buckley

Les's walkabouts were world famous.

Funnily enough, I just had an e-mail from John Bollen.

I wish someone had some videotape of Les, other than that tiny bit I got off Granada of him standing outside the Wheel, the bit we used in SWONS.

[Guest]

I see Ian Dewhirst is online as I type this.

WHERE ARE MY COPIES OF CAFE REGIO'S ????????

I've rung you and rung you till my phone went numb.

[Guest]

Top quality pop record that, like it.

Pop ???????

POP ???????????

POP ?????????????????????

Edited January 11, 2009 by Ian Levine

[Guest]

would it be possible to put better quality videos on vimeo? youtube is so poor.

What's vimeo ???

The whole point of putting them on YouTube is that they are such cruddy quality. If anyone wants to get them, they have to buy them on the DVDs, or the new CD relase which has a free DVD with it.

That's the whole POINT Mike.

People say why do you put the whole song up instead of just a clip, and I reply that it's to get people to like them, so they want to buy the clean clear crisp version.

[Guest Leigh J]

Almost all the Stafford stuff came from Bernie Golding's barn, which were the 45,000 records he bought off me en masse. Almost ALL the Shrine records were amongst these, as at the time I had considered them substandard and nobody prior to that was even remotely interested in them. I had loads of the things, and sold them off for less than a quid each.

So in the late Seventies early 80's while Pat Brady was hammering the Les Channsonnettes and Richard Searling was Hammering Eddie Day & the four Bars ,Ray Pollard ,Shirley Edwards etc.... Got chucked in a Barn !!!!!!!!!!!

[Roger Williams]

Pop ???????

POP ???????????

POP ?????????????????????

It wasn't a criticism Ian, quite the opposite in fact, it had me in mind of the 'Reset To Zero' track from last year.

And anyway, what would you rather have - a tune like this getting play, say, on Radio 2 or TV and becoming successful in a commercial and financial sense for you, or it being accepted as a great soul record by a small number people who post on Soul Source? I'm sure I know what I'd prefer if I'd made and produced it.

Roger

[Guest]

Almost all the Stafford stuff came from Bernie Golding's barn, which were the 45,000 records he bought off me en masse. Almost ALL the Shrine records were amongst these, as at the time I had considered them substandard and nobody prior to that was even remotely interested in them. I had loads of the things, and sold them off for less than a quid each.

So in the late Seventies early 80's while Pat Brady was hammering the Les Channsonnettes and Richard Searling was Hammering Eddie Day & the four Bars ,Ray Pollard ,Shirley Edwards etc.... Got chucked in a Barn !!!!!!!!!!!

Yes but it was prior to them playing them. Actually to be fair, Pat Brady bought Les Chansonettes off me - you'll even find I think that I reviewed it in Black Music in the 1970s in one of my columns.

In the 1970s, no-one was remotely interested in Shrine Records.

[Guest]

It wasn't a criticism Ian, quite the opposite in fact, it had me in mind of the 'Reset To Zero' track from last year.

And anyway, what would you rather have - a tune like this getting play, say, on Radio 2 or TV and becoming successful in a commercial and financial sense for you, or it being accepted as a great soul record by a small number people who post on Soul Source? I'm sure I know what I'd prefer if I'd made and produced it.

Roger

I just viewed it as more a modern-room type anthem, in a Philly vein, much like Footsteps or All Over The World. I didn't quite think of it as pop in any way shape or form.

[Dave]

And anyway, what would you rather have - a tune like this getting play, say, on Radio 2 or TV and becoming successful in a commercial and financial sense for you, or it being accepted as a great soul record by a small number people who post on Soul Source? I'm sure I know what I'd prefer if I'd made and produced it.

Roger

Oh stop teasing him! Neither is going to happen.

[Guest]

Ian,

Here's question for you..

The jump from DJ to Record Producer?

I believe most 'music scene DJs' (of any description) are simply selectors and 'putteronners' of records. IE. A pop radio DJ needs to have MC skills, verbal skills and a host of other skills not necessarily a requirement in a small compartmentalised specialist 'scene'. So...

I AM USING CAPITALS MERELY TO DISTINGUISH THE ANSWERS FRROM THE QUESTIONS. NO OTHER REASON HERE.

what made you decide to manufacture a product based on soul music.

I WAS MORTIFIED AT THE CHEAP DROSS SIMON SOUSSAN WAS DOING IN 1974 AND VOWED I COULD DO BETTER.

THE FLOORSHAKERS, THE BOMBSHELLS, THE STOMPERS, ALL THOSE DIRE INSTRUMENTALS SOUNDING LIKE THEY WERE RECORDED ON A KAZOO. THEN THE ULTIMATE INSULT - THE SHARONETTES.

SO I WENT TO MY FRIENDS, THE EXCITERS, AND SAID LETS MAKE A REAL NEW NORTHERN SOUL RECORD, NOT SOME CHEAP IMITATION OF ONE, AND WE RECORDED "REACHING FOR THE BEST" IN FEBRUARY 1975 IN NEW YORK.

THEN, BITTEN BY THE BUG, I TEAMED UP WITH DANNY LEAKE, WHO I HAD MET IN 1974, WITH 100% PURE POISON, AND WENT TO CHICAGO AND SIGNED EVELYN THOMAS, BARBARA PENNINGTON, AND L.J. JOHNSON, IN JULY 1975.

THEN IN DECEMBER 1975 WE WENT TO NEW JERSEY ( ME AND CRAIG BAGULEY) AND I CO-PRODUCED, WITH HERB ROONEY, THE ENTIRE EXCITERS ALBUM, PLUS TWO SONGS EACH ON DORIS JONES, TYRONE ASHLEY, AND CAROL WOODS.

BY THE END OF MY FIRST YEAR OF PRODUCING, 1975, I HAD ALREADY WRITTEN AND RECORDED TWENTY SONGS.

Once you made the decision how did you learn the skills?

I TAUGHT MYSELF.

SKILL COMES WITH PRACTICE, AND OVER 34 YEARS I HAVE HAD PLENTY.

MY ORIGINAL LYRICS MAKE ME CRINGE, ALTHOUGH THEY DID HAVE A CERTAIN NAIVITY IN PLACES.

SIMILARLY MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE BACK IN 1975 ABOUT CHORDS.

FOR EXAMPLE I HAD WRITTEN "HEADING DOWN FOOLS ROAD" ALL IN MY HEAD, AND HERB ROONEY PLAYED IT OUT ON THE PIANO, BUT HE DID SO WITH VERY EARTHY STRAIGHT DULL CHORDS, LIKE THOSE USED IN A STAX RECORD. I KNEW IT WAS ALL WRONG BUT I COULDN'T EXPLAIN TO HIM WHY IT WAS WRONG. I HEARD IT ALL WITH MOTOWNESQUE CHORDS IN MY HEAD, RATHER WISTFUL AND SWEET, LIKE THE CHORD STRUCTURE OF "MORE LOVE", OR "TEARS OF A CLOWN", BUT DIDN'T KNOW BACK THEN HOW TO EXPLAIN OR EXPRESS MYSELF MUSICALLY.

Do you write music and lyrics?

BOTH. AFTER 34 YEARS I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. IF I DIDN'T BY NOW, I'D BE IN TROUBLE.

If so did you learn to write music after you decided to produce?

YES.

I STILL DON'T WRITE ACTUAL NOTES OUT, BUT I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MINOR SEVENTH AND AN AUGMENTED THIRTEENTH.

PLUS I HAVE A GRASP OF MELODY STRUCTURE, AND AN ABILITY TO WORK OUT BACKGROUND HARMONIES, WHICH I'M VERY PROUD OF.

I LEARNED MY CRAFT FOR BACKING VOCALS FROM BILLY GRIFFIN AND PAT LEWIS IN PARTICULAR.

AND MY BIGGEST INFLUENCE FOR WRITING MELODIES WAS THE HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK I DID WITH THE INESTIMABLE AND WONDERFUL SYLVIA MOY.

Do you play any instruments?

VERY VERY VERY BAD BASIC PIANO, JUST TO WORK OUT CHORDS - BUT CLIVE SCOTT IS LIKE MY EMPATHIC LINK.

HE KNOWS WHAT I WANT, HE KNOWS WHEN I SAY "CHANGE THAT CHORD, THERE" EXACTLY WHAT I WANT IT CHANGING TO, AND AFTER WORKING WITH ME FOR SIXTEEN YEARS, HE GETS IT INSTANTLY RIGHT FOR ME, NINETEEN TIMES OUT OF TWENTY.

How did you learn about chord structure, bridging, pitch, tone, and the other associated subjects?

BY STUDYING ALL THE NORTHERN SOUL CLASSICS. A RECORD LIKE THE CHARADES MAY SOUND MUDDY AND UNCLEAR, AND CHEAPLY RECORDED IN SOME LITTLE MONO STUDIO, BUT YET IT HAS THE DEEPEST RICHEST AND MOST MOODY CHORD STRUCTURE OF ANY SONG THAT I HAVE EVER ANALYSED IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, AND IF I HAD TO PICK ONE SINGLE SONG WHOSE CHORD STRUCTURE HAS BEEN MY BIGGEST INFLUENCE THROUGHOUT MY ENTIRE 34 YEAR CAREER, THEN "KEY TO MY HAPPINESS" IS SO FAR AND ABOVE AND OBVIOUSLY THE MAIN ONE, THAT EVERYTHING ELSE PALES INTO INSIGNIFICANCE NEXT TO ITS RELEVANCE IN MY LIFE AND CAREER.

Lot of questions there I know but they're all really tied together.

I HOPE I HAVE ANSWERED THEM AS FULLY AS I CAN.

SORRY IT TOOK A COUPLE OF DAYS, BUT IT REQUIRED PATIENCE AND TIME TO EXPLAIN STUFF.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Ian Levine

[Guest]

Yes but it was prior to them playing them. Actually to be fair, Pat Brady bought Les Chansonettes off me - you'll even find I think that I reviewed it in Black Music in the 1970s in one of my columns.

In the 1970s, no-one was remotely interested in Shrine Records.

Correct Ian , you did - favourably ........

Any chance on information regarding Barbara Mills , and the " finding " of her for the filming of " QOF " ?

Malc Burton

[Guest]

Correct Ian , you did - favourably ........

Any chance on information regarding Barbara Mills , and the " finding " of her for the filming of " QOF " ?

Malc Burton

It was rather difficult, but once I found out that her brother was Larry Henley, originally lead singer of the Newbeats, but far more world famous for writing "Wing Beneath My Wings", I was then able to track her through him, and his music publisher.

[Guest]

It was rather difficult, but once I found out that her brother was Larry Henley, originally lead singer of the Newbeats, but far more world famous for writing "Wing Beneath My Wings", I was then able to track her through him, and his music publisher.

Interesting .......

Is she still performing , and more so , recording ?

Malc Burton

[Dave]

Ian,

Here's question for you..

The jump from DJ to Record Producer?

I believe most 'music scene DJs' (of any description) are simply selectors and 'putteronners' of records. IE. A pop radio DJ needs to have MC skills, verbal skills and a host of other skills not necessarily a requirement in a small compartmentalised specialist 'scene'. So... what made you decide to manufacture a product based on soul music. Once you made the decision how did you learn the skills? Do you write music and lyrics? If so did you learn to write music after you decided to produce? Do you play any instruments? How did you learn about chord structure, bridging, pitch, tone, and the other associated subjects?

Lot of questions there I know but they're all really tied together.

How much were you paid for this sycophantic script?

[Guest]

How much were you paid for this sycophantic script?

Is that the words to one of their songs ?

Malc Burton

[Dave]

post removed

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/soul-article-...rum-house-rules

[Guest lifeandsoul]

What's vimeo ???

The whole point of putting them on YouTube is that they are such cruddy quality. If anyone wants to get them, they have to buy them on the DVDs, or the new CD relase which has a free DVD with it.

That's the whole POINT Mike.

People say why do you put the whole song up instead of just a clip, and I reply that it's to get people to like them, so they want to buy the clean clear crisp version.

vimeo is similar to you tube but just allows better quality, even HD, as an example, https://vimeo.com/1036692

appreciate your point about sales, and of course, youtube is a much bigger outlet, but as half the arguments on here seem to relate to musicality and production, that particular aspect would come across better on a clip on a better quality platform.

[macca]

Try as I might, I can't see anything adulatory or obsequious about Dave Moore's questions.

Ian, as the Charades are such a part of your musical landscape, did you try to locate them for your SWONS project?

M

[Epic]

What's vimeo ???

It's a fruity drink - I like it hot in the winter - oops that's VIMTO !

[Guest inspirations001]

Yes but it was prior to them playing them. Actually to be fair, Pat Brady bought Les Chansonettes off me - you'll even find I think that I reviewed it in Black Music in the 1970s in one of my columns.

In the 1970s, no-one was remotely interested in Shrine Records.

wasn't the cautions "no other way" the first record off shrine to be played.certaily heard it b4 richard played eddie day.in fact sam lent it to me with a view to me buying it around 78.

[BrianB]

How much were you paid for this sycophantic script?

Hi Dave,

You are either really friendly with Dave, or you have never met him?

If it turns out to be the latter, practice your apology in case you bump into him when he is over here in the very near future.

They were studied questions from someone who has the potential to be a modern day orator of the Northern Soul scene. Read Hitsville and you will know what I mean.

[Dave Moore]

How much were you paid for this sycophantic script?

Not enough I can assure you?

As a very poor musician myself and someone who tried to write music I was, (and still am), interested in the way some music fans take up the quill and try to recreate the sound they are drawn to. Carl Dixon is someone I admire who also decided he wanted to create the music as well as appreciate it. Simple really. Both he and Ian took different paths on their quest but both undertook it 100% and with gusto that I can't help but commend. Of course if you're more interested in the 'oldest pair of dancin' shoes' or the millionth thread about 'DJs' you could always simply inhabit those posts and ignore my sycophantic script eh. Sycophantic? And you from Lincolnshire too? Cracking word and I congratulate you on it's usage. However misplaced it may be.

[Guest]

How much were you paid for this sycophantic script?

Thankyou for your kind comments.

They have been noted.

I always appreciate fair and constructive feedback.

It was thoughtful and most lovely of you to take the time and trouble to bring your opinions to my attention, and you have my unending gratitude.

[Guest]

Try as I might, I can't see anything adulatory or obsequious about Dave Moore's questions.

Ian, as the Charades are such a part of your musical landscape, did you try to locate them for your SWONS project?

M

I did indeed, I tried and tried and tried. So did Andy Rix.

But to no avail, and still to this day to no avail.

Tried to trace songwriter Robert Maxwell too.

[Guest]

Try as I might, I can't see anything adulatory or obsequious about Dave Moore's questions.

I thought Dave Moore's questions were wonderful and articulate and sincere.

I took time to answer because I didn't want to rush the answers back to him.

I welcome these kind of questions.

Plus I think that I'm managing to restrain myself from being rude to the worst kind of trolls quite admirably, don't you all ???

[Dave]

Hi Dave,

You are either really friendly with Dave, or you have never met him?

If it turns out to be the latter, practice your apology in case you bump into him when he is over here in the very near future.

They were studied questions from someone who has the potential to be a modern day orator of the Northern Soul scene. Read Hitsville and you will know what I mean.

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your quite personal reply, however it leaves me a little confused:

"You are either really friendly with Dave, or you have never met him?"

Yes, well it obviously comes somewhere within that wide gape.

"..practice your apology in case you bump into him.."

Oh? Why.. is he a hitman?

"..orator of the northern soul scene.."

This is pretentious crap! Political movements aspire to have "great orators".

Brian, I bet you are a decent bloke! I know your son Paul, who is a top lad. I wonder though, does he take after his mother?

[Guest mickc]

No it's for artistic achievement.

Whatever they may say, and however much criticism they may hurl at me, when I created something as beautiful as the record I give you here as an example, a song which I wrote with the most wonderful Sylvia Moy, no amount of criticism will ever tarnish my pride in it.

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[Dave Moore]

Back to the questions Ian...

Tell us about Sylvia Moy. I think if people look at the credits on many of the classic Motown outings they'll be quite surprised at her input. I've never met the lady but she is in my Top Ten 'To Dos'. It's obvious she is a skilled craftsman. If nothing else she was partly responsible for Stevie's 'Uptight', the intro to which stands shoulder to shoulder with any Beethoven/Mozart, Lennon/McCartney, Goffin/King penned song I'd wager.

Have you any anecdotes about her?

[Guest]

Just played this thought it was really good

Thankyou for having an open mind and not prejudging it.

I only wish there were more like you.

[Dave]

Not enough I can assure you?

As a very poor musician myself and someone who tried to write music I was, (and still am), interested in the way some music fans take up the quill and try to recreate the sound they are drawn to. Carl Dixon is someone I admire who also decided he wanted to create the music as well as appreciate it. Simple really. Both he and Ian took different paths on their quest but both undertook it 100% and with gusto that I can't help but commend. Of course if you're more interested in the 'oldest pair of dancin' shoes' or the millionth thread about 'DJs' you could always simply inhabit those posts and ignore my sycophantic script eh. Sycophantic? And you from Lincolnshire too? Cracking word and I congratulate you on it's usage. However misplaced it may be.

Thank you for the congratulations on my grammar. Of the 207 of us that live in Lincolnshire, almost 30 are literate!

I like your sense of humour, something which sometimes seems lacking on this site.

ATB!

[Guest]

Back to the questions Ian...

Tell us about Sylvia Moy. I think if people look at the credits on many of the classic Motown outings they'll be quite surprised at her input. I've never met the lady but she is in my Top Ten 'To Dos'. It's obvious she is a skilled craftsman. If nothing else she was partly responsible for Stevie's 'Uptight', the intro to which stands shoulder to shoulder with any Beethoven/Mozart, Lennon/McCartney, Goffin/King penned song I'd wager.

Have you any anecdotes about her?

Loads and loads. It will take time.

And Uptight's writing is ninety per cent her. I know this for a fact. Her lyrics ache with pain and soul because she acts them out with her arms while reading them to the artist.

There was a line in "You Are My Destiny" by The Monitors, "Makes me warm like the month of May", and I shall always treasure the memory of the way she enunciated the line while showing it to the group, her eyes lighting up with a burning passion, and she crossed her arms over her chest at the same time.

She is Detroit's greatest advocate, she loves the city and loves its singers, especially the female ones, especially anyone with a bluesy or jazz-tinged edge to her voice, people like Ortheia, or Sherri Taylor or the wonderful late Hattie Littles.

I have a wonderful 30 minute Detroit TV chat show on video, from July 1989, twenty years ago, with her and me and Johnny Bristol all in the studio of "Detroit Black Journal". You'd love it - it gives her deep insight into her music and the music of Detroit and how passionately she cares. She shines on this TV show.

[Guest mickc]

You may also like this

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[abdntony]

Just lpayed this thought it was really good

listened to this track for the 2nd time very good catchy track

[Guest inspirations001]

Another good one dont really understand why some people like having a go at you maybe there need to get out a bit more keep them coming Ian

good effort. is it borrowd from anything, the backing track, or intro at least is familiar ian!

what happened to the guy who did "up in mid air" did you work with him again?

[paup-ine]

Thankyou for having an open mind and not prejudging it.

I only wish there were more like you.

You know I've always championed that track..love it

P

[Guest]

what happened to the guy who did "up in mid air" did you work with him again?

I never even met David Rhodes, and never worked with him in qny capacity.

That record was produced by Danny Leake in Chicago, in 1974, a full year before I ever worked with him.

The female voice who does one line on it was Barbara Pennington, again a full year before I ever met her.

[Guest]

You know I've always championed that track..love it

Yes my darling, but you have the best taste out of every soul fan in Britain, in my humble opinion.

[Guest inspirations001]

I never even met David Rhodes, and never worked with him in qny capacity.

That record was produced by Danny Leake in Chicago, in 1974, a full year before I ever worked with him.

The female voice who does one line on it was Barbara Pennington, again a full year before I ever met her.

sorry, i thought it was one of yours.anyway, i always liked it, even tho it was never massive.

[macca]

Going back to the Charades, fellow stable mate Dean Courtney shed some light on them in an interview, mentioning a John T Mac Jnr.

Did this turn out to be a dead end?

[Guest]

Going back to the Charades, fellow stable mate Dean Courtney shed some light on them in an interview, mentioning a John T Mac Jnr.

Did this turn out to be a dead end?

I seem to remember this was a different Charades. There were more than one, like The Gems, The Parliaments, or even The Elgins.

[BrianB]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your quite personal reply, however it leaves me a little confused:

"You are either really friendly with Dave, or you have never met him?"

Yes, well it obviously comes somewhere within that wide gape.

"..practice your apology in case you bump into him.."

Oh? Why.. is he a hitman?

"..orator of the northern soul scene.."

This is pretentious crap! Political movements aspire to have "great orators".

Brian, I bet you are a decent bloke! I know your son Paul, who is a top lad. I wonder though, does he take after his mother?

Hi Dave,

Actually he really does.

If I was to compare our posts I would think yours was a little more personal than mine?

All the best,

Brian B

[Guest Simon]

Nonsense. It's still played everywhere except the most purist of venues, and you know that type of purist venue well, Simon, they're the sort of ones that you yourself go to.

I go to all sorts of different venues Ian & i can honestly say i've only ever heard that 4 Vandals track played out the once.

Can't say i've ever heard Venicia Wilson played out either which is a real shame because i'd be straight on the dancefloor if it came on!

Simon

[boba]

I seem to remember this was a different Charades. There were more than one, like The Gems, The Parliaments, or even The Elgins.

aren't the charades on MGM, Okeh, Mercury, and Harlem Hitparade all the same new york-area group? and don't they have some sort of main ingredient connection? There is some webpage with Dave Moore saying he was talking to someone getting info about it, maybe he can give more info? Also, I swear on a couple of their tracks it sounds exactly like Donald McPherson singing lead but it could just be coincidence. But I think the main ingredient did cover at least one of their tracks unreleased.

[Chalky]

some info HERE about one of the Charades group.

[Dave Moore]

aren't the charades on MGM, Okeh, Mercury, and Harlem Hitparade all the same new york-area group? and don't they have some sort of main ingredient connection? There is some webpage with Dave Moore saying he was talking to someone getting info about it, maybe he can give more info? Also, I swear on a couple of their tracks it sounds exactly like Donald McPherson singing lead but it could just be coincidence. But I think the main ingredient did cover at least one of their tracks unreleased.

There is definitely a Dean Courtney connection to The Charades although whether they are all the same group/line up I don't know. I'd have to sift some notes but I seem to remember he was friendly with one of the members (I also remember being surprised at the members name and that that particular member went on to become a member of a well know group later in the 70s), and was instrumental in their signing to MGM when he and Jimmy Wisner were at the label. Maybe Dave Ferguson can remember the details.

Chalky.....did Kell Osborne not mention the group in any way when you interviewed him? I know Kell was also around when Dean and The Primes were intertwined.

[Guest]

I also remember being surprised at the members name and that that particular member went on to become a member of a well know group later in the 70s

Maybe there's still hope to get them filmed. Of course it's over ten years since we filmed SWONS, so everybody is another ten years older.

[boba]

some info HERE about one of the Charades group.

that is a totally different charades group, I actually have talked to a member of that group, they have an ok funk record called "corruption". No connection to the MGM group.

[Guest]

I go to all sorts of different venues Ian & i can honestly say i've only ever heard that 4 Vandals track played out the once.

Can't say i've ever heard Venicia Wilson played out either which is a real shame because i'd be straight on the dancefloor if it came on!

Simon

Wow Simon, I'm surprised! but then I remember, you don't live in the north west do you?. I've not heard the four vandals for a while but everyone round here was fighting to play it when it first became available.

I've heard that Venicia Wilson, what seems like a million times too. You need to start coming out more up here.

Jayne.x

[Guest]

that is a totally different charades group, I actually have talked to a member of that group, they have an ok funk record called "corruption". No connection to the MGM group.

Yes I thought I remembered this correctly.

It was filed away somewhere from years ago in the back of my subconscious.