[Rs] skatalites - guns of navarone - island uk

[Guest]

Title: skatalites - guns of navarone - island uk
Artist: skatalites
Track: guns of navarone
Label: island

uk usa Record information:

Skatalites - guns of navarone - Island uk

Skatalites

guns of navarone

Island uk

[ZapatootheTiger]

...an old favourite

[Guest Pete Griffin]

2 great sides, i never get fed up of it.

Pete Griff

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

The Jamaican issue on Muzik City (correctly credited to "Roland Alphonso and the Studio One Orchestra") is about a minute longer than the UK 45, with a full chorus of additional trumpet in the middle section from the late Dizzy Moore.

Correct title and artist credit for the B side, BTW, is "Where Is Garvey?" by Bongo Man (Byfield) and the Studio One Orchestra.

It's a lovely looking label, soon as I can find mine I'll scan it and post it up!

[ChrisOD1964]

2 great sides, i never get fed up of it.

Pete Griff

Whats the flip called? Is it in refo??

chris

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Whats the flip called? Is it in refo??

chris

...Didn't bother reading my previous post, then!

Although I didn't say that, on the UK copy, it's mistitled as "Marcus Garvey" by the Skatalites.

[ChrisOD1964]

...Didn't bother reading my previous post, then!

Although I didn't say that, on the UK copy, it's mistitled as "Marcus Garvey" by the Skatalites.

yes i read it Tony but i`m easily confused

chris

[Guest Pete Griffin]

The Jamaican issue on Muzik City (correctly credited to "Roland Alphonso and the Studio One Orchestra") is about a minute longer than the UK 45, with a full chorus of additional trumpet in the middle section from the late Dizzy Moore.

Correct title and artist credit for the B side, BTW, is "Where Is Garvey?" by Bongo Man (Byfield) and the Studio One Orchestra.

It's a lovely looking label, soon as I can find mine I'll scan it and post it up!

Thing is, why did Island Records totally get the name wrong, was it for a reason? Its seams pretty often that this happens. Any idea anyone?

Also, on you tube, you see the Skatalites doing Guns of navarone live, was the name change for the UK to make it easier for a hit etc??? just asking. I love collecting this stuff and djing it, but as for reading up on it....... no

Pete Griff

Pete Griff

[ChrisOD1964]

Saw the live clip on you tube Pete thoroughly enjoyed it.

chris

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Thing is, why did Island Records totally get the name wrong, was it for a reason? Its seams pretty often that this happens. Any idea anyone?

Also, on you tube, you see the Skatalites doing Guns of navarone live, was the name change for the UK to make it easier for a hit etc??? just asking. I love collecting this stuff and djing it, but as for reading up on it....... no

Pete Griff

Pete Griff

Hi Pete,

Quite often they used to dub the UK 45s from Jamaican 'blanks' (i.e. white label 45s) and would hazard a guess at the correct artist name. Given that "Roland Alphonso And The Studio One Orchestra" is just a fancy name for the Skatalites after all, I would imagine that's what happened here. Doesn't explain why they cut about a minute out of the record, though. That might just have been to get more radio plays. If so, it worked, as the pirate radio stations of the mid 60s gave it a right hammering!

Once the rocksteady era arrived, and artists began to come from Jamaica more regularly, the miscrediting was often done quite deliberately, Junior Lincoln, who used to run Studio 1/Coxsone and , later, Bamboo and Banana here, told me many years ago that if, say, Ken Boothe was in town and he didn't have any new Ken Boothe material to issue, he'd deliberately change an artist credit on a forthcoming release - even if the real artist sounded nothing like Ken Boothe - in the hope that he'd sell a fe more records to those who might go to see Ken live, It wasn't just Ken who got this treatment, of course - and even he would undergo a name change or two if, say, Alton Ellis was around, touring and selling lots of records! Amazing, but true...

Of course, Junior's boss Coxsone Dodd was also very keen not to pay any of his his artists for overseas sales, and would order Junior to change names on certain labels so that artists with friends or family in the UK would not be immediatley aware that their record was selling well in the UK.

Coxsone was by no means the only one to subscribe to this immoral business practice, but he was far and away the worst. And it's why just about all of his major 1960s artists had left Studio 1 by the end of 1969!

Edited April 6, 2009 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest Pete Griffin]

Hi Pete,

Quite often they used to dub the UK 45s from Jamaican 'blanks' (i.e. white label 45s) and would hazard a guess at the correct artist name. Given that "Roland Alphonso And The Studio One Orchestra" is just a fancy name for the Skatalites after all, I would imagine that's what happened here. Doesn't explain why they cut about a minute out of the record, though. That might just have been to get more radio plays. If so, it worked, as the pirate radio stations of the mid 60s gave it a right hammering!

Once the rocksteady era arrived, and artists began to come from Jamaica more regularly, the miscrediting was often done quite deliberately, Junior Lincoln, who used to run Studio 1/Coxsone and , later, Bamboo and Banana here, told me many years ago that if, say, Ken Boothe was in town and he didn't have any new Ken Boothe material to issue, he'd deliberately change an artist credit on a forthcoming release - even if the real artist sounded nothing like Ken Boothe - in the hope that he'd sell a fe more records to those who might go to see Ken live, It wasn't just Ken who got this treatment, of course - and even he would undergo a name change or two if, say, Alton Ellis was around, touring and selling lots of records! Amazing, but true...

Of course, Junior's boss Coxsone Dodd was also very keen not to pay any of his his artists for overseas sales, and would order Junior to change names on certain labels so that artists with friends or family in the UK would not be immediatley aware that their record was selling well in the UK.

Coxsone was by no means the only one to subscribe to this immoral business practice, but he was far and away the worst. And it's why just about all of his major 1960s artists had left Studio 1 by the end of 1969!

A very interesting read, Thanks.

Pete Griff

[Tommy1]

This is my copy. Swedish Sonet with Wynder K Frog - Incense on B-side.

Nice picture sleeve with a text saying something like this; "The canon record from Jamaica which have had a music loving world to demand"

[Pete S]

This is my copy. Swedish Sonet with Wynder K Frog - Incense on B-side.

Nice picture sleeve with a text saying something like this; "The canon record from Jamaica which have had a music loving world to demand"

There's a Wynder K Frog version of Incense? Any chance of a sound clip please?

[Guest Pete Griffin]

There's a Wynder K Frog version of Incense? Any chance of a sound clip please?

Think its on the Wynder k frog - Sunshine superfrog lp.

But i aint got it.

Pete Griff

[Tommy1]

There's a Wynder K Frog version of Incense? Any chance of a sound clip please?

I'll make a sound clip later today. It's a killer, and it's one of the reasons why I bought this 45

Both tracks are taken from Island records and might be the reason why they made this split record..

[Pete S]

I'll make a sound clip later today. It's a killer, and it's one of the reasons why I bought this 45

Both tracks are taken from Island records and might be the reason why they made this split record..

I like the Wynder K Frog version of I Feel So Bad. They used the original Jackie Edwards backing track, that's why I was interested when you said there was an inst of Incense, because if they use the original backing track, it proves once and for all that the original single by The Anglos was a UK recording

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

it proves once and for all that the original single by The Anglos was a UK recording

"Incense" was recorded at A & R Studios in New York. At least, the backing track was. TThe single was issued on Orbit (and picked up by Constellation) in the USA before it first came out here on Brit.

I've mentioned on here before that "Incense" is a note for note rip-off of a Jackie Wilson track called "Now That i Need Her" (from the "Soul Galore" album). "Now That I Need Her" is itself an answer disc to Roy Hamilton's "You Can Have Her".

Owen Gray's version of "Incense" also uses the Anglos backing track. In fact, I have a copy of a letter from David Betteridge at Island, explaining to a collector that they reason the Sue issue of "Incense" was withdrawn was because Owen had recorded a version of the song on the same backing track and they were going to issue that (on Island) instead).

[Pete S]

"Incense" was recorded at A & R Studios in New York. At least, the backing track was. TThe single was issued on Orbit (and picked up by Constellation) in the USA before it first came out here on Brit.

What was Stevie Winwood doing there then?

n.b. just this once Tone, I think I am going to disagree with you. I think the Orbit record came out after the Brit one. There are very few copies of it around, why would Island issue an unknown American single which sold nothing?

Edited April 7, 2009 by Pete S

[ChrisOD1964]

Nice 1

cant hear it yet.

chris

[Tommy1]

I'm getting this message so that could be the problem; Soul Source is undergoing maintenance. Please check back shortly!

[Guest Pete Griffin]

I'm getting this message so that could be the problem; Soul Source is undergoing maintenance. Please check back shortly!

Already spoken to Mike yesterday and the sound files are down at the moment.

Pete Griff

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

What was Stevie Winwood doing there then?

n.b. just this once Tone, I think I am going to disagree with you. I think the Orbit record came out after the Brit one. There are very few copies of it around, why would Island issue an unknown American single which sold nothing?

Winwood wasn't doing anything anywhere except being in the Spencer Davis Group, it absolutely isn't him singing on "Incense". Really is about time that urban myth was laid to rest once and for all.

It came out on Constellation a full three-four months before it came out on Brit, mate. I worked out pretty much excatly when it was released on Constellation by looking at the chart performance of the Gene Chandler singles in close proximity, and I have an Island release sheet somewhere which backs me up. And as it came out on Orbit before that.

Larry Fallon and Jimmy Miller got their production deal with Island on the strength of "Incense" and the other record they brought with them from the States when they came here, Prince & Princess' "Ready Steady Go".

Should say that a lot of this info came via research I did when Ace/Kent was doing the UK Sue Story CDs. I'm not just speculating here, I do have facts 'n' info to back it up, honest!!!!

[Sebastian]

why would Island issue an unknown American single which sold nothing?

They did the same thing with Mr. Dynamite's "Sh'Mon". Didn't exactly set the world on fire on its original US release, but for some reason still gained a UK release on SUE/ISLAND.

[Pete S]

Winwood wasn't doing anything anywhere except being in the Spencer Davis Group, it absolutely isn't him singing on "Incense". Really is about time that urban myth was laid to rest once and for all.

It came out on Constellation a full three-four months before it came out on Brit, mate. I worked out pretty much excatly when it was released on Constellation by looking at the chart performance of the Gene Chandler singles in close proximity, and I have an Island release sheet somewhere which backs me up. And as it came out on Orbit before that.

Larry Fallon and Jimmy Miller got their production deal with Island on the strength of "Incense" and the other record they brought with them from the States when they came here, Prince & Princess' "Ready Steady Go".

Should say that a lot of this info came via research I did when Ace/Kent was doing the UK Sue Story CDs. I'm not just speculating here, I do have facts 'n' info to back it up, honest!!!!

Bloomin well sounds like him though

[Guest Pete Griffin]

Bloomin well sounds like him though

i agree.

Pete Griff

[Guest]

Been busy in here,should i post the garvy side up ?

[Tommy1]

Hmm.. does the Incense work? I can't play it

Edited April 8, 2009 by Tommy1

[ChrisOD1964]

Whattaf I'll try again..

Sorry Tommy i was just mucking about The refosoul player aint working yet.

chris