cue-burn'

[Barry]

Exactly how is 'cue-burn' (??) believed to come about?

I see some odd things spoken about rewinding a track being the cause.

Anyone enlighten me?

I know how I see it coming about but how does the boards general conscencus explain it?

[Guest]

Exactly how is 'cue-burn' (??) believed to come about?

I see some odd things spoken about rewinding a track being the cause.

Anyone enlighten me?

I know how I see it coming about but how does the boards general conscencus explain it?

Cue burn ? I though that what was Alex " Hurricane " Higgins used to get ........

Martin " Cunnie " Dixon will be the man to explain this .

Malc Burton

[Barry]

Cue burn ? I though that what was Alex " Hurricane " Higgins used to get ........

Martin " Cunnie " Dixon will be the man to explain this .

Malc Burton

Malc!

Don't be so random at this time of the morning, I'm struggling as it is mate.

[Guest]

Malc!

Don't be so random at this time of the morning, I'm struggling as it is mate.

Morning Barrington ........ I will put the serious head on then Aunt Sally .

Cue Burn

Definition : Cue Burn is a phenomenon which occured when DJs used vinyl recordings ( 33 rpm , 45 rpm ) to play songs . The DJ would place the needle on the record , and then hand - turn the turntable until the needle played the very beginning of the song . The DJ would rock the turntable back - and - forth a couple of times , to make sure the position of the needle was at the very beginning , so that when the turntable was turned on , the recording would start immediately . The act of rocking the needle back - and - forth, over time , created physical indentations in the vinyl , which would eventually create a bit of white noise that sounded like " chhhhh " when the record would begin

Will that do you , my old amigo ?

Malc Burton

Edited April 12, 2009 by Malc Burton

[Mark Bicknell]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Cunnie]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Dark room - Album track. Hmmm.

[Guest Matt Male]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Couldn't agree more. I started by screwing about trying to find the first beat for a seamless start from the last record, but after a while you realise that just plonking it towards the end of the run-in groove has the same effect. Rarely use headphones now as it tends to encourage this kind of thing. Sometimes if you're trying to avoid a spoken intro maybe, but otherwise no.

[Guest Matt Male]

Dark room - Album track. Hmmm.

oh yeah...

[Guest]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I am with you all the way on this Mark ......

I have never used or more to the point , liked using headphones to cue up a record , and have always stood by the testimony of my eye .

I started " manually " cueing records in this manner 41 years ago , as you had to do , as headphones were not part of the equipment back then ......

Malc Burton

[Denbo]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

My sentiments EXACTLY. Absolutely no need.

[Simon M]

Dark room - Album track. Hmmm.

Martin I have one of these

https://www.solarlightcap.co.uk/products.cfm

[NEV]

Dark room - Album track. Hmmm.

Good point and as always there is an exception to the rule.

Mark prob never uses lp's i reckon

I thought the headphones were all a part of the uniform ,look the part so to speak

Wish i could master the art of resting em on me shoulder ,listening with one ear ,whilst twiddling with knobs at the same time...that's when you know your a top dj

Personally i think cue burn is more to do with being careless and heavy handed when cueing in

Playing records as a soul dj is a lot different to the guy's who work the clubs ,mixing etc

These guys play cheap records ,not usually collectable so don't give a sh*t ,when it's knackered just get another copy.

Moral of the story is "handle with care"

[Godzilla]

Depends what you're playing. I virtually always cue up with headphones. Makes for a more dynamic set I think.

I acknowledge that I'm in the minority here though and I suppose a big part of it is that I don't really play sets that are exclusively Northern these days.

[Cunnie]

Martin I have one of these

https://www.solarlightcap.co.uk/products.cfm

You know what Simon I believe you

Been known to take my own headphones with me before today & even my own carts but most mixers have meters for cueing anyway if folks would only be bothered to learn how to use them

[Mark Bicknell]

Dark room - Album track. Hmmm.

Don't take/carry or play albums still I don't need to as I've got far too many good quality 45's to use....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Simon M]

You know what Simon I believe you

Been known to take my own headphones with me before today & even my own carts but most mixers have meters for cueing anyway if folks would only be bothered to learn how to use them

Same here Martin . I did actually get that hat for fishing ... the Gadget man had a prototype on TV

[Guest]

Funny, nobody mentions checking the tonearm counter weight before you play. Too much weight on a styrene 45 and it doesn't matter how cue it up....

[Guest dundeedavie]

i suppose it depends on how you see your records , i know a few collectors who refuse to cue up records happily absorbing the couple of seconds silence that is possible ..... personally i don't like that couple of seconds cos i feel it is less "professional" but that's just my opinion

[Ian Dewhirst]

Depends what you're playing. I virtually always cue up with headphones. Makes for a more dynamic set I think.

I acknowledge that I'm in the minority here though and I suppose a big part of it is that I don't really play sets that are exclusively Northern these days.

That's two of us then LOL. I've always used cans 'cos I like the dynamics between one record ending and the other beginning. I personally don't like too many gaps or crackling before a record starts.......

But cue burn on styrene pressings ruined some very good records - anyone remember the early copies of Mel Britt which were hammered so much that you could hardly hear Mel's voice......?

Ian D

[Godzilla]

i suppose it depends on how you see your records , i know a few collectors who refuse to cue up records happily absorbing the couple of seconds silence that is possible ....

That reminds me of mate who plays ska and rocksteady 45s. He just puts the record on and stands there, looking all smart in his suit, with his hands behind his back appearing totally unconcerned until it starts. Drives me crazy!

[Cunnie]

Don't take/carry or play albums still I don't need to as I've got far too many good quality 45's to use....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Ah the joy's of being a Northern DJ.

Depending on the night have been known to carry a 7" box, a 12"/album box & a CD box (all original format of course!) but that's the Modern scene for you.

Only ever knackered 1 record by backcueing but it was a very rare acetate so lesson learned on that score.

Have never known a 12" single get cueburn so guess there are some advantages

Same here Martin . I did actually get that hat for fishing ... the Gadget man had a prototype on TV

He'll kill you Simon

Off to meet him in a bit at the Wakefield dayer. He's already there propping up a bar & it don't start for another hour

[Simon M]

He'll kill you Simon

Off to meet him in a bit at the Wakefield dayer. He's already there propping up a bar & it don't start for another hour

[Des Crombie]

Funny, nobody mentions checking the tonearm counter weight before you play. Too much weight on a styrene 45 and it doesn't matter how cue it up....

Totally agree the only time I have ended up with cue burn was when the tracking weight was set too high. I carry a set of digital scales (Link) to check tracking weight because of this. Also needle type is important with spherical needles causing less damage than ellipitical when back cueing.

[Guest kerby]

Funny, nobody mentions checking the tonearm counter weight before you play. Too much weight on a styrene 45 and it doesn't matter how cue it up....

spot on , when i set up the first thing i do is check the weight,s . and use top quality stylus,s . i would,nt want to be responsible for spoiling someones record .

mart (kerby )

[Stevie]

I carry a set of digital scales (Link) to check tracking weight because of this.

Good idea... trying to explain this to Old Bill though.. hmmm

[Samson]

And the moral of this story is don't ponce about with headphones and cueing up records in this manner, in some 27 years of DJ'ing I can honestly say I've never cued a record in this way as you should be able to cue by eye, what's the worst that can happen? a couple of seconds delay before the record starts or balls the record up forever, also I think cue burn tends to happen more on styrene records than vinyl it certainly seems to be worse on styrene anyway, so again messing about with headphones and winding the records backwards to give the professional I know what I'm doing DJ impression can and will bite you in the bum.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I've only experienced this with styrene......of course i am still a young buck. I curse they day my vinyl shows cue burn.

[Guest]

I take a set of headshells with cartridges with me too because you dont know how old those stylus are or where they have been. And yes setting the deck up correctly is most important.

[Barry]

Now Malc, I love you; Mark - I've met you; and Monster..we don't know each other but:

As far as I am concerned this urban 'cue-burn' myth phallacy simply cannot have come about from the age-old sticking yer needle on and rocking it back and forth on the first beat...think about it!?

The only reason you'll get a 'HISS', for however long the 'HISS' is, can surely only be due to the fact that at the 'HISS' point there was too much pressure on the stylus - that much pressure that the vinyl/styrene could not cope with it and gave in.

Now 'winding back' a track is virtually the same as letting a stylus play the way it is designed....now, don't give me the old line that vinyl is pressed to play a certain way, right to left as it were, and playing against the grain could cause undue stress, as that explanation is bobbins.

'Cue-burn' is caused by heavy handedness alone - being a klutz when placing the stylus onto your record or wacking a track off, with yer big Yorkshire fingers, half way through it causes 'cue-burn' and nothing more.

I've wound records of mine back for fecking years and have never acquired the "record collectors way out of Klutzism" - that is... 'cue-burn' on any of 'em - so can we safely pack this urban myth Room 101 please?

Get your SOS pressing of Judy Street out and try it.

[Godzilla]

Now Malc, I love you; Mark - I've met you; and Monster..we don't know each other but:

As far as I am concerned this urban 'cue-burn' myth phallacy simply cannot have come about from the age-old sticking yer needle on and rocking it back and forth on the first beat...think about it!?

The only reason you'll get a 'HISS', for however long the 'HISS' is, can surely only be due to the fact that at the 'HISS' point there was too much pressure on the stylus - that much pressure that the vinyl/styrene could not cope with it and gave in.

Now 'winding back' a track is virtually the same as letting a stylus play the way it is designed....now, don't give me the old line that vinyl is pressed to play a certain way, right to left as it were, and playing against the grain could cause undue stress, as that explanation is bobbins.

'Cue-burn' is caused by heavy handedness alone - being a klutz when placing the stylus onto your record or wacking a track off, with yer big Yorkshire fingers, half way through it causes 'cue-burn' and nothing more.

I've wound records of mine back for fecking years and have never acquired the "record collectors way out of Klutzism" - that is... 'cue-burn' on any of 'em - so can we safely pack this urban myth Room 101 please?

Get your SOS pressing of Judy Street out and try it.

This is so much tosh.

Polystyrene is more a brittle material than vinyl and records made from the substance are prone to cue burn.

Elliptical styli dig deeper into the groove and can even cause cue burn on vinyl if rocked on the beginning of the track.

Weight can be an issue as can tracking but not necessarily. Talk to people outside of the soul scene if you want proof that it's not a myth.

[pikeys dog]

The only reason you'll get a 'HISS', for however long the 'HISS' is, can surely only be due to the fact that at the 'HISS' point there was too much pressure on the stylus - that much pressure that the vinyl/styrene could not cope with it and gave in.

If that's the case why are there hundreds of records out there that his for the first few seconds only?

If it was due to incorrect weight, then they would hiss all the way through?

[Benji]

Almost correct, Barry.

The only reason you'll get a 'HISS', for however long the 'HISS' is, can surely only be due to the fact that at the 'HISS' point there was too much pressure on the stylus - that much pressure that the vinyl/styrene could not cope with it and gave in.

That's not the only reason but the main reason IMO

Now 'winding back' a track is virtually the same as letting a stylus play the way it is designed....now, don't give me the old line that vinyl is pressed to play a certain way,

right to left as it were, and playing against the grain could cause undue stress, as that explanation is bobbins.

You're right, you could play any record either way. but the problem is the needle, back in the days needles were designed to be used in one way only. The were sort of blunt on one side so when you back-cue'd a record too fast a nasty noise was likely to develop. I understand that nowadays needles are not blunt on any side so shouldn't due any harm to your records. If unsure get a "DJ" needle or something similar from Ortofon or any other quality supplier.

I cue in every record as I want end of previous and start of next record to flow smoothly. Remember that outside the british Northern Scene DJ's hardly drivel between their discs

So next time anyone of you is dj'ing, balance the tone arm (about 2.5 on the scale when using a Technics 1210), get your own needles to make sure they're ok and if you cue in your record do it slooooowwwwly..

[Cover-up]

So next time anyone of you is dj'ing, balance the tone arm (about 2.5 on the scale when using a Technics 1210), get your own needles to make sure they're ok and if you cue in your record do it slooooowwwwly..

Hmmm, can't see it would make any difference what speed you back-cue at. Vinyl records don't suffer from cue-burn. Styrene records do. That's about it really...

You occasionally get styrene records which hiss the whole way through, or in certain passages or in one channel. Then again, you get styrene singles which look utterly battered and play perfectly.

[Godzilla]

Hmmm, can't see it would make any difference what speed you back-cue at. Vinyl records don't suffer from cue-burn. Styrene records do. That's about it really...

I used some decks that had been set up for a club night when I did a Sunday Morning gospel set. Knacked a couple vinyl 45s just by cuing them up and swapped for my own headshells. When I spoke to the DJ later he said he's just fitted new elliptical styli and said it was because he mixed but didn't scratch. Apparently ellipticals are notorious for shredding records on the rewind.

[Barry]

This is so much tosh.

Polystyrene is more a brittle material than vinyl and records made from the substance are prone to cue burn.

Elliptical styli dig deeper into the groove and can even cause cue burn on vinyl if rocked on the beginning of the track.

Weight can be an issue as can tracking but not necessarily. Talk to people outside of the soul scene if you want proof that it's not a myth.

O-H M-Y G-O-D!

The 'Eliptical styli' line is a killer.

[Barry]

By the way - are you all mad?

Yes styrene is more brittle than vinyl but do you honestly believe that the HISS at the start of any given record came about because of someone 'rocking the needle back and forth'?

Jesus! I can't believe I'm biting here ha ha.

[Godzilla]

O-H M-Y G-O-D!

The 'Eliptical styli' line is a killer.

Just because you're too dim to understand it doesn't make it untrue

Look Here

[Godzilla]

By the way - are you all mad?

Jesus! I can't believe I'm biting here ha ha.

Me neither. You're obviously a Flat Earther.

Nothing else for me here

[Barry]

Just because you're too dim to understand it doesn't make it untrue

Look Here

That response tells me a lot about yourself mate.

But I still love you...but that's just me it seems.

[Barry]

By the way I didn't look 'here/there' as I don't need to be told - unlike yourself son as it appears you don't have had enough groundwork to make an educated opinion.

Did that hurt?

[ImberBoy]

Is this any thing like what I experienced the day after visiting Akbar's Restaurant in Rotherham?

[Barry]

Is this any thing like what I experienced the day after visiting Akbar's Restaurant in Rotherham?

Whenever I see your avatar Imber I always hear the theme tune from 'The Persuaders'.

[ImberBoy]

Barry, its funny you should say that coz quite a few on the Northernsoul scene say that I look like a very short fat dumpy version of Tony Curtis? Or was that Collin Curtis?

Going a little off topic now, sorry Barry, The persuaders theme was done by John Barry who in my opinion is a fookin god!

The theme from a Midnight Cowboy and the 007 Theme (not to be confused with the James bond theme) are in my all time faves!

Youtube them

[ImberBoy]

Barry you look like a Bond villain!

[Barry]

Youtube them

[Barry]

Barry you look like a Bond villain!

That's actually me Mam fella...so you're saying me Ma looks like Donald Pleasance?

[Dave]

I put into google: "thread for pretentious idiots", and it brought me here

[Cunnie]

Is this any thing like what I experienced the day after visiting Akbar's Restaurant in Rotherham?

Deserve all you get at Akbars Simon.

Bet you didn't manage to finish the nan bread

[Barry]

Pretty coloured font!

Slit my throat eh?

I'll call to see what language you speak.

ooh!

Imber...bob on mate.

Spare the rod.....hehe

[Dave]

Not at home then?

[Barry]

To quote 'The Warriors' Dave...

...'Don't f*** with the Imbers'.